How does the game change for guys as we get older?

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

I missed out on the importance of status and social perception in my school days and paid the price for it dearly by graduating a virgin but I was wondering how the dating game along with attracting women changes for men as we enter adulthood. Sometimes I hear of older guys who pull hot girls and wonder how they are meeting these women. Just a couple days ago I did a few approaches after taking a long break from approaching and for some reason I cannot explain, it seems like women I am running into in a big city are much friendlier to the cold approach as opposed to girls I knew in a college town who were stuck up.

But I wonder if this is it now.

You go out, find a girl you find cute, approach, and then do stuff with her.

I am not so sure if you pay for dates with her or if it is still possible to pull off a one night stand without having to pay for anything.

I also wonder how much of society's pressure to "grow up" that is placed on men plays into this whole thing as well.

 

[Fuck This]

Age and career are great equalizers. You will notice that once you go back to school reunions. After 20 years, the people who wouldn't give you the time of day, are much more outgoing to you...

Remember your value in the market goes up as you age. Probably until about age 60, I'm guessing. The population of available women your age is actually increasing each advancing year. They also lose the attitude somewhat, and become more socially aggressive. YOu just have to present yourself as welcoming enough, but a bit of a challenge to get to know.

 

[Bboy100]

I'm still very young, so I'm not super qualified to answer this question. But even just from my experience of transitioning from college to the real world, I can tell you there are a few major changes:

1. In college, the majority of girls pretty much looked for almost the same thing in a guy. Basically, the average athlete/Frat bro archetype. Very dominant, very masculine, kind of a dick at times, life of the party, super popular etc. In the real world, a guy like this remains very attractive in some ways. Buuut, girl's preferences start to broaden as well. Now all of us sudden, girls will also be attracted to guys who possess other traits as well.

2. Attainability becomes more relevant. In college, especially with younger girls ( ages 18-20), you can pretty much be a fuckboy and get away with it. You can be a complete douchebag to girls in a lot of ways. And you can be a hardcore player who doesn't give a fuck about the girls you're with. Girls will know this and still slob on your knob. Whereas in the real world, if you come off as a fuckboy, you're pretty much screwed in a lot of situations. Even if a girl was totally into you before, there's a good chance she'll kick you to the curb if she thinks she'd just be another sloot in your rotation (Note: This does not mean girls are not attracted to/are not willing to fuck guys who are sleeping with multiple women. What I'm saying is that in the real world, you need to put in more effort to show that despite the fact that your'e with other women, you care about or at least appreciate/validate her as a human being. In college, this is not always necessary.). Overall as girls get older, they seem to demand more proof that you're actually into them, or at the very least, care about them in one way or another. Younger girls don't require this.

The only exception to this is if you're meeting girls at clubs/bars. At clubs/bars, and other party environments, girls are usually looking for pretty much the same thing they were in college.

 

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

As a guy who wants to avoid LTRs and marriage with a 20 ft pole, this sucks.

It seems like it is impossible to get laid a ton by tons of different women once you're out of college......

 

[Bboy100]

As a guy who wants to avoid LTRs and marriage with a 20 ft pole, this sucks.

It seems like it is impossible to get laid a ton by tons of different women once you're out of college......

You've misread and/or misinterpreted what i said. Getting laid after college is EASIER for 80% of guys. Including you. As noted above, women in college look for a certain archetype. Based on your previous posts, its clear to me that that's not you. Whereas after college, girls will be open to dating and sleeping with a much larger variety of different personality types. So for you especially, dating should get easier as you age. You just need to seek out the women who appreciate what you have to offer, and stop chasing status obsessed ex-sorority girls. You're not attractive to them. Or if you want, I guess you can also spend years trying to overhaul your entire personality to become what they want. But that sounds like a lot more effort than just going after girls who are already into you. Plus, as you've probably already experienced, that's not always a very easy or straightforward thing to do.

Also, like I said before...girls are still open to no strings attached hook ups. You just need to make them feel like you actually appreciate them (as well as be attractive/capable of making them wet).

The only guys who suffer after college are guys who were already popular and/or super attractive to women and have all of us sudden lost their entire circle of friends and all the status/prestige they had in their college social circle after they graduate. Those guys will have some rebuilding to do.

 

[The Emerald Archer]

It seems like it is impossible to get laid a ton by tons of different women once you're out of college......

Instead of asking all these questions about status, popularity, and living "college life" in the real world, how about you focus on losing your virginity first with ANY girl by ANY means necessary seeing as how you haven't even done that yet.

 

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

Bboy you are using my fucked up upbringing against me, I can't do anything about that. But I can promise you one thing that both you and I know is true, if I had laid back parents and knew the game going into college, I could have easily gotten those sorority girls and if I was also in a more open minded state. In fact, I think I am a fun alpha male but I cannot operate in a tight knit social circle where Greek letters ALONE define you.

So lets get one thing straight, I do have what it takes both game and looks wise to get sorority girls because the truth is, I am more handsome and charismatic than majority of the skinnyfat fraternity guys they are around, that is simply the truth. Now if we're talking about Pikes from FSU then that might be a different story.

Lets not sit here and pretend like these sorority girls ignored me because of my game and personality, the reality is they were getting with guys much lamer and uglier than me due to Greek letters alone. On the other hand, I STRONGLY believe (and I know deep down inside you do as well) that if I am put in an environment where the game is fair and Greek letters don't mean shit, I am pulling hot girls that care about status and that INCLUDES sorority girls.

My only mistake is I never knew this shit of joining a frat mattered so much and I had a rough upbringing with overbearing parents who I have recently got off my back. Put me in the same room as your average frat bro, I am getting way more pussy than him, even if it includes status obsessed sorority girls as long as they don't know of his fraternity affiliation.

This shit isn't game or looks based, it's more knowing the status game which is very very tough to know. Who knew Greek letters meant so much at a college campus? Not me.

But take those same sorority girls in a foreign location, even within the US, where they are not around their shitty friends and I am fucking them well before the vast majority of frat bros unless we're talking FSU pikes or another legendary fraternity.

 

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

It seems like it is impossible to get laid a ton by tons of different women once you're out of college......

Instead of asking all these questions about status, popularity, and living "college life" in the real world, how about you focus on losing your virginity first with ANY girl by ANY means necessary seeing as how you haven't even done that yet.

I have focused on it, see my threads about me starting tinder and I have started approaching too, but I want to see the future as well.

 

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

This is a perfectly legitimate question and tbh, you guys are pedestalizing frat boys a bit too much. The vast majority I knew had rich parents and could fuck around knowing that they could work at daddy's company if anything failed. Most of the poor kids I knew were the ones who studied hard and worked through college, they were not involved in the hookup culture all that much.

I feel like high school and college are more about your parents' wealth and the kind of environment you grew up as opposed to your game and who you are as a person. I've fucked some girls who used to be in sororities, you will be surprised as to how open minded they become once they leave their college setting and are no longer constrained by their sisters. Quite a few I have met are so over that way of life and they hate to go back to it, a lot I know rebelled after college and went for various kinds of guys they would not have even looked at in college.

 

[Marcellus]

Altair- All you do is talk, and talk and talk and talk

Go fuck some girls and stop complaining about you not being in a Frat or whatever you're complaining about today

 

[The Emerald Archer]

Bboy you are using my fucked up upbringing against me, I can't do anything about that. But I can promise you one thing that both you and I know is true, if I had laid back parents and knew the game going into college, I could have easily gotten those sorority girls and if I was also in a more open minded state. In fact, I think I am a fun alpha male but I cannot operate in a tight knit social circle where Greek letters ALONE define you.

So lets get one thing straight, I do have what it takes both game and looks wise to get sorority girls because the truth is, I am more handsome and charismatic than majority of the skinnyfat fraternity guys they are around, that is simply the truth. Now if we're talking about Pikes from FSU then that might be a different story.

Lets not sit here and pretend like these sorority girls ignored me because of my game and personality, the reality is they were getting with guys much lamer and uglier than me due to Greek letters alone. On the other hand, I STRONGLY believe (and I know deep down inside you do as well) that if I am put in an environment where the game is fair and Greek letters don't mean shit, I am pulling hot girls that care about status and that INCLUDES sorority girls.

My only mistake is I never knew this shit of joining a frat mattered so much and I had a rough upbringing with overbearing parents who I have recently got off my back. Put me in the same room as your average frat bro, I am getting way more pussy than him, even if it includes status obsessed sorority girls as long as they don't know of his fraternity affiliation.

This shit isn't game or looks based, it's more knowing the status game which is very very tough to know. Who knew Greek letters meant so much at a college campus? Not me.

But take those same sorority girls in a foreign location, even within the US, where they are not around their shitty friends and I am fucking them well before the vast majority of frat bros unless we're talking FSU pikes or another legendary fraternity.

HAHAHAHAHA you are so pathetic dude. You haven't even swiped your v-card and yet you claim you can out game guys who are used to getting hot girls or at the very least being around them? Not a shot in hell. Bboy is 100% accurate you are anything but attractive to these types of women and you refuse to accept responsibility and keep on playing the blame game and victim card. You keep going on and on and on about Greek Life, fraternities, popularity and all this nonsense. You don't know a single thing about Greek Life and the guys/girls involved because YOU WERE NEVER A PART OF IT. You have no experience being popular or "cool" in college and all your posts about college popularity are a bunch of BS you've read on the internet and are simply repeating what you hear, which is about the most ignorant and unintelligent thing a person can do.

No fucking wonder the "cool crowd" and all those hot sorority girls stayed far from away from you in college, look at your personality. It's atrocious. You've managed to piss off the majority of the GC Boards whom consist of some of the coolest and most down-to-earth, open-minded, genuinely helpful types of people on the whole internet imo. The average person in college no matter how cool or socially popular have nowhere near the amount of tolerance and/or patience for behavior and attitude like that like the the members on this forum do, and look at how you've alienated most of them. People who know your track record for being a crybaby and playing the victim card over and over on the face of this forum, and they still have the decency to respond and provide you with insightful and practical advice to some of your asinine and ignorant posts.

I personally take offense to you keep on judging those "bimbo" types a.k.a. sorority girls because I am friends with some of those types of girls. They are nothing like you describe and judge them for being. They're girls just like other girls. You just lack the ability to relate to them and be on their level, hence them having nothing to do with you. You're just bitter and salty as fuck even though it's all your doing and your responsibility for not understanding them and making yourself the type of guy they go after.

You've been out of college for well over a year now where status, popularity, and greek letters have minimal effect on getting laid and you still haven't even managed to get your dick wet. All you do is talk shit and blame everything and everyone but yourself, you're clearly the culprit. You saying you can pull hot girls in an environment where greek letters don't mean shit is the most absurd thing I've ever heard because after college is exactly the type of environment you're describing and oh wait... you still have your v-card. HAHAHA that is exactly why hot girls/sorority girls/"status-obsessed/ANY girl probably doesn't want a damn thing to do with you. I can only imagine the type of vibe you give off in person, it must be extremely value-draining and socially intelligent people can sense it and want nothing but to get far away from you.

I've already wasted enough time of my day responding to you, seeing as how you're going to deny any responsibility and keep on playing the victim. The only reason I typed this up is because It's really insulting to have you judge certain types of guys and girls that you have no experience hanging with, namely frat boys and sorority girls. I am in a fraternity and hang out with these types of people consistently and they are nowhere near as cold, mean, and heartless as you make them out to be. You're just a bitter dude crying about how he doesn't have what he wants in life and insists on blaming everyone and everything but himself. Slay is right man you're just a pussy.

 

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

Kick a guy when he is down in this regard right? Some of you guys are quite low.

I got dealt the worst hand out of probably any of you on here. Backwater town, horribly overbearing Arab parents that forced me into engineering, and I can go on and on about all that. I was stuck at home after college unemployed because I was in an engineering major I hated but was forced into fighting with my parents daily and I now have a full time job living on my own in a big city getting my life together, that counts for something.

That's right I am a fucking virgin but the way I see, most of you on this thread would not even live to see life after 21 if you had to go through the shit I had to go through but I actually keep fighting despite life giving me the worst hand imaginable. I post on here about my worries about the future because unlike some of you lowlives, I actually want to get better and get a plan in place but enough of that, you want action then lets talk action.

Sure Tinder might not have worked out for me as well as I wanted and I posted a thread about Tinder to prove that I am serious but fine then, lets keep going. I am doing this for Chase and Franco alongside other important members like them that matter and actually take the time to help people rather than kicking them when they are down, not you fucking losers who have no business giving anyone advice.

Here is a screenshot of some convos I have had with women in online dating just this past weekend on OkCupid, ignore Alice and message at the bottom has been blacked out because we talked about personal shit. 4 responses out of 10 messages sent, I don't care but that's progress for me!

So Marcellus, fuck you I don't just talk, I take action you fucking loser.

I am not even talking about the approaches I did this past week alone but enough of that, lets get to the cowards in the room.

Emerald who the fuck are you loser?

As far as I am concerned, your "Greek Life" experience likely comes from being a fucking TKE munching on pizza while watching porn and giving brojobs, shut the fuck up and stop trying to act like you're old row. As far as I know, the "bimbos" you've known are likely the fatty ugly sororities so get the fuck out. BTW stupid, Greek Life in the south isn't the same as Greek Life in Ohio, ever thought of that?

You did make the only good point in your trash rant that this board has cool people in it but that does not include you, that includes Chase and Franco, not you! You are overhyping your importance on this board just like you are overhyping your fraternity life likely being in some lower tier house loser.

Really that's all you can keep going on about? Me being a virgin after surviving traumatic circumstances while as far as I know you spent the whole weekend munching on pizza with your bros while playing video games. Come talk to me when you get a fucking job loser.

Slay, you're just an annoying piece of crap that farts out garbage threads and Marcellus, you are trash, both of you can go fuck yourselves.

As for the theme of the thread before these imbeciles ruined it.

I felt so unaware of the game coming into college so I wanted to get a better idea of it as I got older. As desperately as some guys on GC want to talk me out of gaming hot and popular girls, likely crabs in a bucket, I strongly feel that I had better knowledge of the status and how the whole social realm worked then I would be able to do well for myself but until then, I am confident that I will do well for myself regardless because life has given me a terrible hand and I have been playing it well so the rest of you irrelevant fucks on this thread can suck it.

Say what you want, I proved that I am doing shit about my situation with the tinder thread and with this post.

 

[Bboy100]

Bboy you are using my fucked up upbringing against me, I can't do anything about that.

This is where you're wrong. You can definitely do something about it. Go to therapy and get this sorted out dude! You said it yourself. You've been through some traumatic experiences which you haven't ever really dealt with. That's exactly the kind of thing Psychotherapy is designed for. Believe me, once you get this handled, not only will you feel much better, but you'll actually have an easier time with women too. Because I suspect the reason you're so needy around them has to do with whatever traumas you've experienced.

Stop wasting your time trying to fuck your way through the issue. Not only is that a much harder path, but its also not effective. Even if you do finally get whatever girl you're looking for, you'll only feel better for all of 12 hours. Then you'll go back to feeling like shit. This cycle will repeat forever until you deal with the issue directly. I know it doesn't feel that way. I know it feels like if you just get that hot girl, all of your anxieties will melt away. But its just not true. Take it from a guy who's been down that path.

 

[The Emerald Archer]

Emerald who the fuck are you loser?

As far as I am concerned, your "Greek Life" experience likely comes from being a fucking TKE munching on pizza while watching porn and giving brojobs, shut the fuck up and stop trying to act like you're old row. As far as I know, the "bimbos" you've known are likely the fatty ugly sororities so get the fuck out. BTW stupid, Greek Life in the south isn't the same as Greek Life in Ohio, ever thought of that?

You did make the only good point in your trash rant that this board has cool people in it but that does not include you, that includes Chase and Franco, not you! You are overhyping your importance on this board just like you are overhyping your fraternity life likely being in some lower tier house loser.

Really that's all you can keep going on about? Me being a virgin after surviving traumatic circumstances while as far as I know you spent the whole weekend munching on pizza with your bros while playing video games. Come talk to me when you get a fucking job loser.

Lmfao your response here makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Like I said you have a track record on these forums for continuing to complain and feel sorry for yourself. You making a few online dating accounts and sending out a few messages doesn't come close to making up for all the complaining and bitterness throughout your timeline of posts on this forum.

My issue is that you keep judging and stereotyping certain subsets of people in certain social scenes that you HAVE NO/MINIMAL EXPERIENCE ASSOCIATING WITH. You keep judging guys in fraternities as being assholes and now pizza munching, porn-watching slobs, and not having any personality/game and even insulting their looks by calling them skinny-fat. Like wtf? And it all stems from your failing to take matters in your own hands and taking advantage of opportunities that you have certainly had in your life but didn't act on because you kept feeling sorry for yourself and playing the victim. You've even admitted to this yourself in some of your older posts on this forum.

Stop insulting certain social groups of guys/girls just because you're bitter that they didn't accept you and/or still continue to not accept you. Idgaf about your upbringing and traumatic experiences because everybody has hardships in life. You just want to keep feeling sorry for yourself. If you can stop insulting greek life and white american girls, then I will refrain from attacking you. You need to understand that you are being very insulting when you judge and stereotype certain types of people, because some people on this forum are a part of those social scenes and are friends with the types of people you keep trying to portray in a negative light. You are insulting them by saying the asinine things that you say about them, especially when it's clear that you are very bitter and at fault for them not accepting you.

Look into therapy like Bboy said, because you certainly sound like you could use a LOT of it.

 

[Byron]

Mate I grew up in a very conservative arab country (albeit as an american who was just there cause of his parents job). I graduated from a high school with less than a 150 people with a 6 person lay count and had dated a very wealthy arab socialite for a year and a half. Now I'm in the real world, chilling with friends who were over 50 lays when I had 6, (I have like 15 now for reference, but have been in six relationships that lasted more than a year). I don't care what your parents or situation is like. It doesn't matter where you came from, that's just an excuse. It only matters where you are going.

To answer your question instead of giving you shit though, the game changes when you are older from what I can tell as you are expected to be more chill/smooth and have your shit together, more of a james bond/christian grey type. When you are younger, the edgy bad boy or popular guy is king (and if you can combine both you are pussy dynamite). If you are over 30 or 35 just be very chill and smooth. You may want to make up for lost time, but when I'm bartending at my nightclub most older guys we see who try to play the party guy image just look pathetic (whereas younger guys do it quite well). The older guys I see who get with hot girls are always somewhat disinterested in the whole party thing, kinda aloof while still having fun, and dress very very well, with fundamentals tight.
Hope that helps dude! Keep going, and focus on where you are going.

 

[Chase]

Okay, let's tone it down a notch.

Altair, the reason guys flipped out here is twofold.

One, you started your thread off with another standard lament. Woe is me, the best years are behind me, I've missed out.

Two, the question you asked is mental masturbation. You haven't figured out how to get the SCUBA mask on yet, yet you're concerned about what to do if you get lost in an underwater cave system.

The sorrows and fears seem pressing to you now, because you don't have anything else going on. As soon as you have tits in your face and pussy wrapped around your cock you are not going to care about this stuff anymore.

In the meantime, until you have tits in your face and pussy on your cock, some advice. You know you need to treat girls a certain way to gain their attraction instead of their scorn. You also need to treat other MEN a certain way, to earn THEIR aid and esteem instead of their scorn.

Men respect strength, pluck, and a can-do attitude. You on the other hand take this wounded kitten approach. It's a survival mechanism, I've seen it a million times before, I get it. It helps growing up in an abusive or oppressive environment. Be the wounded kitten and folks will back off. Or they may lend you a hand. Nurture you, give you help, take pity on you.

Among a group of improvement oriented men though, a man taking this wounded kitten / damsel in distress role is off putting. It's a downer, it's frustrating, and guys just want to slap the guy and tell him to go find his nuts. It's extremely moody and womanly.

This isn't "Altair's true identity." I had moody/bitchy moments when I was new to dating. A couple of times I bitched on forums too. I did it a lot less than you did and I still had a few guys tell me, "All right man, it's time to knock off the bitching and moaning." To which I said you're right, I won't do it again. And I didn't. I focused on posting field reports, providing encouragement to other members, and helping out where I could help out instead.

You need to find a way to contribute positive value to the boards instead of being a drain on the lifeforce around here. The other men on the boards will treat you with respect IF you start to command their respect. Guys here don't care if you're still a virgin after college. And they don't care if you weren't in a frat. They DO care if you lament about the stuff you don't have instead of going out and GETTING that stuff.

Stop being the wounded kitten. Contribute positive value to the boards. Post field reports. Provide encouragement to other men. Quit asking mental masturbation questions.

Ideally, go out, approach girls, and chronicle your outings. Seek to continually implement new pieces, and report on how they do. Then integrate more new pieces and report on those too.

You cannot stay on the boards and be a negative influence on other men. This is a brotherhood here. Every single guy on here will go to bat for you if you are a positive guy who is trying to improve himself and is not bringing down the collective. But if all you have is woe and regret, this isn't the place for it.

That's the choice. Wounded kitten? This ain't the place for it. Maybe hit up Google (or DuckDuckGo, my choice) and search for "missed out forum". You can probably find a bunch of people who sit around in their rocking chairs talking about how they missed out on life. You'll be right at home if you want to continue the wounded kitten routine.

Or, you can be a man the men here respect and esteem. You can be a man you YOURSELF respect and esteem. You can be a man women come to respect and comply with. And throw their tits in his face and their pussy on his cock.

But you can't be the wouned kitten here anymore, amigo. We don't rescue damsels on the GC Boards. All we do is dragonslay. Gotta make a choice.

Chase

 

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

A few things.

1. I really don't hate fraternity guys at all, I don't, but I hated that I needed to have greek letters in order to get hot girls at my university. Will not go into it more than that and as for the generalizations, we can admit that certain kinds of women act certain kinds of ways, but moving on.

2. I have made strides in turning my life around. I knew living at home with shitty Arab parents was going to be hell so I found a full time job in a new city and have adjusted to that life which I am largely loving.

3. I have made efforts in starting online dating accounts, haven't had much luck at all with Tinder which I also posted a thread on but more on that later on.

4. I only resorted to getting hostile after Bboy said I cannot get certain kinds of girls, my response was I was simply unaware of the status games and if I had better circumstances growing up, I would get those girls.

5. I strongly strongly strongly feel like I have the swagger, charisma, and what it takes to get those specific types of girls in a neutral environment. Take the Greek Letters away from your average frat boy and I get the hot blonde over him any month of the year, week of the month, day of the week, hour of the day, minute of the hour, or second of the minute.

I've been robbed by life due to shit circumstances but here I am, I am fighting, and I think it was quite low for Bboy and others to tell me I cannot get certain kinds of girls I feel like I can get.

We can instead look for answers like maybe some status oriented stuff I might need to keep an eye out on in the real world because Greek Life blind sided the living fuck out of me, it is religion in southern schools.

I have made approaches and from this point on, although I would like to know about the future and how to prepare for the incoming storm, I will share my progress more.

I posted screenshots of my OkCupid convos, started a tinder account, and I will once again go back to approaching as I am finding girls much more approachable in a big city than the piece of shit college town I had to be in.

All I ask is one thing, for those of you who truly want to help, as I post my approach guide or journal, if some kind souls can guide me along the way because I feel that I have an opportunity for something special.

 

[Raqimus]

A few things.

4. I only resorted to getting hostile after Bboy said I cannot get certain kinds of girls, my response was I was simply unaware of the status games and if I had better circumstances growing up, I would get those girls.

5. I strongly strongly strongly feel like I have the swagger, charisma, and what it takes to get those specific types of girls in a neutral environment. Take the Greek Letters away from your average frat boy and I get the hot blonde over him any month of the year, week of the month, day of the week, hour of the day, minute of the hour, or second of the minute.

I've been robbed by life due to shit circumstances but here I am, I am fighting, and I think it was quite low for Bboy and others to tell me I cannot get certain kinds of girls I feel like I can get.

There is still a bit of victim mentality left over Altair, I'll point it out in each post, its okay to mention your past but no need to keep bringing it up its the past. And the feeling that you have the swagger and charisma is good keep that mentality but you also need to remember that you can still improve if your not getting the results so keep working on it!

 

[Smith]

Altair,

Relax man lol I'm sure BBoy didn't mean you can't get them. at least that's not how I interpret his post, so it's quite interesting you interpret it that way. But maybe that's precisely the reason why you can't get them. You NEED it too much. Post some pics of you or even just a voice recording of your interactions and we'll give you some advice on how to improve. It requires a lot of balls to put your interactions up here, but I think that's what other senior members on this forum would like to see - they want to see some proof of you taking action and following their advice. I'm sure it's not that hard to voice record your interactions, and if you could find someone who could record it for you, it would be even better. What you need is a fresh pair of eyes to see what you're actually doing, instead of what you think you're doing. forget about the online dating for now if you're having trouble holding a conversation on a cold approach. Put all your energy into cold approach. Most people don't even take online dating seriously anyway, so don't take it personally if they don't reply. No one wants to put you down here, but you've been doing this on and off for probably over a year. Today's the first time I've been on this forum in months, and you're still improving at a snail like pace. Speed up! Push yourself more! You need to talk to 20 new women per day if you're serious about this, just chat, doesn't even have to be "pick up".

And back to the question you have on this thread. Game is suppose to get easier as you get older. If it's hard, then you're fking up. Age is the great eqauliser my friend. I swear ever since I got out of colleage and started working this year, sometimes I don't even think I need to specifically turn on a "game mode" around women, and it just comes naturally sometimes. Partly because my job makes me talk to strangers all day and I need to make them feel comfortable fast. So I just don't think about game anymore. I still have times when I feel a bit shy, but I know how to get past it because I've done it before, and because my job needs me to be confident lol so I have no choice. I would recommend getting a job in sales, and you'll know how to not be pushy while still getting what you want. It will give you a lot of social experience and you'll know when's the right time to build rapport, when to back off and not seem needy, and when to "push a bit harder", and most importantly, when to stand your ground and not be fazed by other people's bs.

I would say, a lot of your fears with women are probably social fears as well, because I have overcome some social fears on my job in the last few months and that has definitely make talking to girls easier. Sometimes you don't really think of them as a "hot girl", you just see them as another human being you talk to. As you get older, your responsibilities increase and you won't have time to chase after every girl. Well at least for me right now, I definitely don't have time to chase up every girl. They really need to have more than looks.

As I get older I also realized that having a group of friends that you can "be yourself" around with is super important as well, because sometimes you just need an environment where you can relax and not feel judged. This group of friends is the place you can recharge and have fun. If you don't have this group yet, it's not a problem. They can be anyone you feel comfortable with. They don't have to be successful people or frat boys, because chances are when you're around them you'll probably feel stressed because you're just not on their level yet.

Smith