How ethical is having short-term GFs? How to begin such relationships?

[sneaky_charm]

So I've recently joined college. It's an Indian college, and a small campus. Think a High School campus size. Parties do not happen here, there are no fraternities or sororities. One of my goals of joining college is to get good at girl skills. However, casual sex doesn't seem to be too prevalent. Or, at least, not that I know of. It's a Catch 22, because even if it's happening, it is probably a secret, which means I can't know about it. Now, getting casual partners seems really difficult to me, cause I do not know of any friends who does that. Even if there are some guys who are doing it, I'm not friends with them so I don't know the rules of this particular region.

One of the options I'm considering is getting short-term girlfriends. But, I'm really torn regarding its ethics. Leading a girl on just to use her for sex and relationship training doesn't seem like a great thing to do. However, where I am at this point socially, that appears to be my only reliable option. Is there any way to make the short-term girlfriends thing work, without hurting the girls and without having to carry the baggage of being a terrible person myself? I mean, can I start a relationship by saying something like "I cannot promise anything about where we will be in a year or two, but right now I really like you, I want to be exclusive with you.". I don't know if I'll be okay with that or not. But, do you think it will work? Any other similar strategies?

 

[trashKENNUT]

sc,

To women, it's not short term. Women don't think in numbers or terms. Women think in sequences.

I probably should not say this because i just revealed SOMETHING that a smart person would use it for the wrong reasons. Then again, life is nothing personal.

Leading a girl on just to use her for sex and relationship training doesn't seem like a great thing to do.

I wish the world was thought this way, but it isn't.

-People get married to have sex.
-Certain sections of Islam have this called "nikah misyar". It's short term marriage, where men guarantees some incentive and 3 months to gauge knocked up.
-People deviate their fellow men while approaching girls.

In my personal opinion, i don't want to say more. I have meet indian blue collar workers here in Asia, who i feel cognitive dissonance and resentment about women in my country have more freedom.

So i am more afraid of giving you more info than where you already now, due to your dating population.

Zac

 

[Hue]

But, I'm really torn regarding its ethics. Leading a girl on just to use her for sex and relationship training doesn't seem like a great thing to do.

You seem to have answered what your own morality is on the issue. Perhaps look deeper as to why you think this and decide for yourself if the principle it's founded on with stands your own critiques and appraisal.

Is there any way to make the short-term girlfriends thing work, without hurting the girls and without having to carry the baggage of being a terrible person myself? I mean, can I start a relationship by saying something like "I cannot promise anything about where we will be in a year or two, but right now I really like you, I want to be exclusive with you.". I don't know if I'll be okay with that or not. But, do you think it will work? Any other similar strategies?

I can only say that approaching the relationship, before it (or sex) even happens in a way that creates these types of expectations could likely end in dissatisfaction/buyer's remorse. I find it much healthier to approach things with low/no expectations.

Though, if having a girlfriend is something you want, it's much more practical to screen the girl and get to know her to see if she has the traits / interest of a girl that you find worthy of having a monogamous relationship with.

Having a girlfriend / monogamous relationship is a totally different beast than simply laying a girl, but if the girl isn't someone that you would enjoy having as a girlfriend, attempting to have her just for "girlfriend training" seems like a lot of strain just for "reps".

Here is a black dragon article about the difference between FB's and MLTR's that may help you


Hue

 

[sneaky_charm]

Zac,

I wish the world was thought this way, but it isn't.

-People get married to have sex.
-Certain sections of Islam have this called "nikah misyar". It's short term marriage, where men guarantees some incentive and 3 months to gauge knocked up.
-People deviate their fellow men while approaching girls.

I understand what you're getting into. At the same time, even if I break up by giving some bullshit reason, isn't it pathetic to get into a relationship I KNOW I'll get out of after a few months?

Hue,

Though, if having a girlfriend is something you want, it's much more practical to screen the girl and get to know her to see if she has the traits / interest of a girl that you find worthy of having a monogamous relationship with.

Having a girlfriend / monogamous relationship is a totally different beast than simply laying a girl, but if the girl isn't someone that you would enjoy having as a girlfriend, attempting to have her just for "girlfriend training" seems like a lot of strain just for "reps".

Well, I don't want to have a girlfriend. But, I don't know the rules here. The cold approach dates I got, reflecting, it seems like I called them a few times before meeting up. So, probably I need to invest more, text more, call more in this place. But, the issue is, that can make a girl attached somewhat. If not that, investing a lot definitely puts me into the BF zone. I just don't know how to text for 3 days, and then get them out, and then get physical. Unlikely to work, also I have ZERO logistics. So, I'll be happy with kisses and heavy make outs.

 

[trashKENNUT]

sc,

even if I break up by giving some bullshit reason, isn't it pathetic to get into a relationship I KNOW I'll get out of after a few months?

Maybe,

but no one goes into marriage, thinking....

But at the end of the day, she doesn't operate from where you are. just as you not operating from she is.

Zac

 

[sneaky_charm]

Zac,

Okay, I see your point. I wonder what I'm gonna do.

And congrats on hitting 4000 posts on the forum!

 

[trashKENNUT]

sc,

Not influencing you but aren't you already operating from where you are, now?

and now, i am not listening to you, because i am operating from where i am

Zac

 

[Seppuku]

Sneaky Charm,

I'm a little late on this thread, but here is my take.

Look carefully what advanced guys are doing on these Boards. We are taking casual partners *all the time*, and we *never* rationalize with the girl first. We do not engage into logical discussion with the girl, we *never* say things such as

"I cannot promise anything about where we will be in a year or two, but right now I really like you, I want to be exclusive with you."

We don't have to. Instead, we make sex just happen, and it works just well.

Because we know that feminine nature is intrinsically sexual at its core. This goes beyond culture and education, it is deeply ingrained into feminine instincts. The only thing we do is to appeal to this side of the woman.

Now, in your case, your mindset seems your limiting factor. I'm not blaming you, because we all had our "aha!" moment.

You are coming from a frame of mind which is something like "girls want relationships, guys want sex. I want sex, and the only way I can get that is by agreeing to a relationship first. Therefore if I just want casual sex, I have an ethics problem because I am lying to her".

But this ignores the sexual nature of women like I just said. If you make sex "just happen", and if you are careful not creating false expectations, she will be very clear what this is, and there will be no need to explain anything. You may also be surprised to discover that she is *very pleased* with what just happened, and just fine with it. It goes a long way against what most guys out there think they know about women. And hell yeah, what I used to believe myself before I had my own realization.

The key to casual sex is to carefully avoid creating any expectations, and just make things happen. Not creating expectations is the critical, and tricky part. You must be careful about your communication, both verbal and non verbal. You seduce her fast, you don't take her on multiple dates, you're not trying to be useful to her in anyway, you're sexy and smooth, etc... It's the expectations that create heartaches and unnecessary tears. Just don't create them.

Once you had casual sex with her once, wait for a week, then have casual sex a second time. Then third. Etc... And here you go, you now have a casual sex partner.

And again, this goes beyond culture and education. It's not "only works with sluts" or "only with western girls". It's something deeply ingrained in their instincts. It works equally well with "good girls" or non western girls with more conservative mindset.

Now what you absolutely need to do is to be able to make sex "just happen", fast and smooth. For this, you absolutely need to figure out your logistics.

I hope it helps!
Seppuku

 

[sneaky_charm]

Seppuku,

I see what you're saying, and I totally agree.

At the same time, I approached over 200 girls in an Indian city, and approached about 3 or 4 near my hometown. The city girls mostly acted happy or creeped out. But, in my hometown the girls talked to me, but their vibe was very very skeptical, as if they were very confused.

To understand what I'm dealing with, I did some digging. One newspaper quotes that premarital sex before 19 years of age among Indian girls is 6.2 and 6.3% in 2 of the bigger Indian states. Even if we consider that they are lying and multiply that by 4, we're still dealing with 75% girls who are most likely virgins.

But, I'm really interested in making this work. Can't go all the way cause I have zero logistics, but at least till kiss and makeout. How should I deal with a college where most guys do not have girlfriends or are having sex, and seeing a couple is a very rare sight?

 

[Seppuku]

Hey,

I see what you're saying, and I totally agree.

Do you?

At the same time, I approached over 200 girls in an Indian city, and approached about 3 or 4 near my hometown. The city girls mostly acted happy or creeped out. But, in my hometown the girls talked to me, but their vibe was very very skeptical, as if they were very confused.

To understand what I'm dealing with, I did some digging. One newspaper quotes that premarital sex before 19 years of age among Indian girls is 6.2 and 6.3% in 2 of the bigger Indian states. Even if we consider that they are lying and multiply that by 4, we're still dealing with 75% girls who are most likely virgins.

Your post is titled "how ethical [...] / How to begin [...]?". It's a very general question, and interesting one. That's the one I answered, as the way to get short term girlfriends, as well as the ethics side.

For the rest, you still need to figure how to deal with your specific situation. Now, this thread really starts to sound like another "life sucks" whining post that we had already seen a lot here. You remind me of the other dude who lives in Atlanta, and could be swimming in pussy, but he "doesn't like black girls". If he lives in a city full of black girls, he should either (i) reconsider his stance about black girls, or (ii) move to another city full of white girls (or whatever his racial preference). But if he doesn't want to do (i) nor (ii) then he will keep banging his head on the same wall over and over again.

It will *never* be as per the ideal, textbook case. If the ideal path is not possible, then you'll have to consider alternative roads. This means compromise. It is for you to figure out what compromise. In the case of the guy above, the compromise would have been to stop saying he doesn't do black girls, challenge himself, and try. Maybe he'll find out that it's not as bad as he thought. Maybe he'll even like it. Or, the other solution is to change cities.

In your case, if the more traditionally minded girls are not an option, then how about foreign girls? Or how about other cities? But frankly I don't want to even get started here, I am not in your shoes. It is for you to figure out what are the alternatives, the compromises you are willing to make.

One thing is sure, if you want to move forward, you'll have to figure out a way to stop hitting the same wall, over and over again. No one here is going to that for you. No one can deliver tons of girls into your bed, but you. No one will tell you how to do that. All we can do is explain the general approach. It's up to you to see how to make it work, in your particular situation. It's up to you what steps are required, and what are the alternative roads, if the main road looks impossible.

Then when you have identified the steps, it's up to you to just do them and try.

But, I'm really interested in making this work. Can't go all the way cause I have zero logistics, but at least till kiss and makeout. How should I deal with a college where most guys do not have girlfriends or are having sex, and seeing a couple is a very rare sight?

Are you kidding me? You ask about beginning casual relationships when the best you can do is a makeout? Don't even think about casual relationships and how ethical is that, it's not for you, yet. First things first, get your logistics handled. Then learn to bring girls home and fuck them (not makeout). When you're there, then we can discuss about casual relationships.

Seppuku

 

[sneaky_charm]

Seppuku,

Well I certainly didn't mean it to be a depressing 'life sucks' post. Just tell me how would you handle a place where 80% of 19 years olds are still virgins, I'm very curious to learn? I have 3 years for trial and error, but I'd hate my reputation to go down and then destroy all my chances. How to balance things in my situation?

How slow should I take things? Do I try to become popular or go under the radar? How to handle when girls find out I made out with a particular girl?

I think it was Denton, he has a post on college game and it recommends flirting with everyone, then taking occasional dates.

Any other good tips? Logistics I can't do anything, but I can at least learn to get to makeout reliably and consistently. If connection building is Step 1, makeout is Step 2, and sex is Step 3, I can become well versed in Step 1 and 2 at least, if I can't do all 3.

I'm really not trying to whine here. Just that my college starts 8 days after and I want to get as much advice I can so that I don't do something outrageous and get fucked for the 3 years to come.

 

[Seppuku]

Well I certainly didn't mean it to be a depressing 'life sucks' post.

Glad to hear.

Just tell me how would you handle a place where 80% of 19 years olds are still virgins, I'm very curious to learn? I have 3 years for trial and error, but I'd hate my reputation to go down and then destroy all my chances. How to balance things in my situation?

Here you will find general ideas about seduction. It is for you to see how to make it work in practice, in your particular case. I don't mean to brag, but I made it work in Qatar, which is far from the ideal place to learn this stuff. Not good for cold approach, and if it goes in the wrong ears you can end up in prison. The demographics is three men for each woman. The white, western girls here are on very short supply. I had to compromise. So I learned online game and went for asian and black girls, with much more favorable demographics, and learn to operate discretely.

So if pursuing the girls from college seem impractical, see which compromises you can do. Foreign girls? Older girls not in college? Married women? Girls from other cities? You know best.

Any other good tips? Logistics I can't do anything, but I can at least learn to get to makeout reliably and consistently. If connection building is Step 1, makeout is Step 2, and sex is Step 3, I can become well versed in Step 1 and 2 at least, if I can't do all 3.

Well, you should rethink this. Just because you kiss a girl is no guarantee you'll take her to bed. See all the field reports here where the guy manage to kiss her but can't get the second date. You risk becoming a "makeout only" specialist... I usually recommend Step 1, then Step 3 directly, it's more efficient. Well, up to you.

Seppuku