How not to be opinionated in any way?

[Slippin' Jimmy]

So I was out with this girl, who I'd already slept with a couple of times. We were having a drink with a couple of people we met at a bar. Somehow the topic of 9/11 comes up. She expresses a vehement opinion along the lines of 9/11 being a conspiracy executed by the bush government.

I am not a politcally active guy, and I never enjoy talking about this kinda shit because its always ends up losing friends (and lovers), but I couldn't help but find this conspiracy theory thing laughable. Almost involuntarily I laughed out loud, and the girl got offended. She threatened to leave over this so I apologised and said something along the lines of "I'm not too sure of the facts, anything's a possiblity... i guess", all while trying to keep a straight face. Weak, I know. I probably should've just said "fine, take your ridiculous nonsense and go". And then meet some new girls.

How do you guys keep your opinions to yourself in moments like these, without looking meek and submissive? Even when someone says something you find totally ridiculous and/or offensive? I try to keep my opinions to myself on all occasions but sometimes its really hard.

 

[Richard]

Your goal shouldn't be to be totally non-opinionated. You should, however, know how and when to get off of the topics that you don't want to talk about (i.e. learn how to thread cut). I take a slightly different approach because I'm well aware that people have different points of view for different reasons and I'm the curious type so I inquire more.

So, when she says

Her: "I think 9/11 was just a conspiracy set up by Bush!"
Me: "I'm on the fence about it myself (or I disagree), but I'd like to hear more of what you think."

But, I'd genuinely be curious about it. If somebody's got passion for the topic then it's always a thrill to sit back and hear them talk, all the while they feel closer and closer to you.

If you want to thread cut, you take the topic and make it more interesting;

Her: "I think 9/11 was just a conspiracy set up by Bush!"
Me: "I wasn't a fan of Bush as president. I don't follow politics too closely but he seemed to be pretty sub-par and dramatically raised our national debt. But hey, what do you expect from a guy who got Cs throughout school/ sent companies into bankruptcy/ (insert well-known general fact here)" and then loop that fact around to something more interesting. So, instead of talking about 9/11 you're now talking about school, business/work, or whatever else you want to talk about.

Again, your goal shouldn't be to remain non-opinionated because that's boring but you should strive to seek out topics where you can be opinionated and on the same page with women and thread-cut topics where you can't be. Basically, you're actively seeking out topics where you can talk and talk with like-minded or open-minded people.

-Richard

 

[Thedoctor]

S.J.,

Richard gave you some solid advice. The only thing I wanted to mention was that you should try to keep an open mind. Many people's opinions on things change quite drastically over time, yours included. I'd imagine, like most of guys on G.C., that your opinions and views on women changed a bit after discovering this site.

No matter how laughable something may seem at first, once you examine the evidence, you'll sometimes be surprised at what you may find out. Rather than not being opinionated, I'd challenge you to hold off on forming an opinion until you know all the facts from both sides.

Also, when you laugh at someone after they state an opinion, most of the time, they'll take that very personally. They may feel that they're not being respected and that you feel they are dumb. Laughing is overly dismissive. My last gf was very religious (I'm not) and it was never an issue since we were never dismissive of eachother's opinions. I can't prove there isn't a god any more than she can prove there is.

-John

 

[Big Daddy]

Weak, I know. I probably should've just said "fine, take your ridiculous nonsense and go". And then meet some new girls.

Not holding your frame is weak, yeah, but I think this "all or nothing" mindset is a good starting point if you're an ex-nice guy looking to toughen up; I've been doing it for a few years now and I don't think it's optimal... and just brushing if off with outcome independence gives more results in the short-term (you might have fucked her that night) but I often run into longer-term problems that I dig further below.

@Doc

Many people's opinions on things change quite drastically over time, yours included.

This is an issue that I run quite frequently.

I'll be the first one to admit that I screen very aggressively. So let's say a girl passes the test; months later, she changes her mind mind and I'm pissed because now I have to put up with something that I didn't signed up for BUT I feel like I'm in a crossroads:

• I would feel the necessity to show my disapproval since the reason that I'm with her now is exactly because she had X view and now she doesn't!
• But I'm afraid that if I judge her for that, she'll start to feel less and less comfortable telling me other thing and this a long-term doom

So either I start liking her less because I start to like her less because I don't feel we'd connect very well if shared ABC or I maintain my frame control and now she's the one who's uncomfortable.

You gave an astonishing example.

I'm an atheist, all my close friends know it, even though all of them have some degree of faith, and we've reached a point where this isn't brought up at any point in our conversation. If they do bring up, they know that I'm going to hold my frame and bash whatever they put on the table because there's no way in hell I'd be convinced and they're OK with me doing it and talk to me normally afterwards (they're the ones who brought it up; I have no interest in that subject).

(One of them actually told me once that he liked that (frame control) in me because he's sure that whenever he talks about his goals, beliefs, etc with me he knows that I'm not shying away and always keeping him on his toes. But he is a man, that's cool. The problem is when it's with a girl.)

This actually happened with a girl. I meet girl, she's an atheist. Awesome! Months later she starts going to the church and slightly liking it. She then comes to me to talk about things that interests her, naturally, and now that means church and religion, which is something that, sure, I can change the subject, but only for so long before it starts get annoying.

I don't want to just keep cutting threads because since I never communicated to her that I DON'T LIKE IT and would appreciate if she just stopped going to the church altogether (not gonna happen, I know; I'll settle for not talking about it, then), she'll just continue to bring it up over time.

 

[Slippin' Jimmy]

THanks for the advice guys. I also stumbled onto this article by chase which I think suits my style: https://www.girlschase.com/content/disagreeing-women-made-fun-and-effective

S.J.,

Also, when you laugh at someone after they state an opinion, most of the time, they'll take that very personally. They may feel that they're not being respected and that you feel they are dumb. Laughing is overly dismissive.

-John

Yes I believe you are right John. Although the laughter was involutarily, I quickly realised how mean it was, and became somewhat ashamed of my arrogant behaviour. I did patch things up with her by her apologising, but did look kinda weak by doing this.

 

[Seer]

Lots of nice advice here. One thing to keep in mind is that the entirety of humanity believes in lies. Everything is an opinion you can choose to like or not like. Just look at the mainstream advice concerning women! The truth is just true even if you disagree with it however. Knowing that, you can listen to someone even if their lying or not, knowing it's just their point of view, and not take it so personally.

 

[Slippin' Jimmy]

I don't know why you ever not want to be opinionated, on the condition that you are well-read and know what you're talking about. I am extremely opinionated, which is the right that comes with knowledge, and people that keep quiet just to avoid "rocking the boat" are extremely easy to dominate even without trying to. So I encourage you to read more, and stand up for what you believe in.

P.S. I don't believe that Bush was personally aware of what happened, but 9/11 was certainly not what it appeared to be.

Sure. I've been an opinionated guy my whole life up until the last couple of years, when i've decided to reign in that behaviour. For the simple fact that people who are very opinionated tend to alienate others who don't share the same point of view.

There appears to be a trade off between being that guy who is provocatively, aggressively opinionated and being the cool, nonchalant guy who doesn't give a damn about the things most people get up in arms over. And I know which one is better for making and maintaing friendships and seducing women.

P.S I agree that 9/11 was not what it appeared to be. Perhaps this calls for a separate thread in the off-topic forum?

 

[Thedoctor]

B.D.,

@Doc

Many people's opinions on things change quite drastically over time, yours included.

This is an issue that I run quite frequently.

I'll be the first one to admit that I screen very aggressively. So let's say a girl passes the test; months later, she changes her mind mind and I'm pissed because now I have to put up with something that I didn't signed up for BUT I feel like I'm in a crossroads:

• I would feel the necessity to show my disapproval since the reason that I'm with her now is exactly because she had X view and now she doesn't!
• But I'm afraid that if I judge her for that, she'll start to feel less and less comfortable telling me other thing and this a long-term doom

So either I start liking her less because I start to like her less because I don't feel we'd connect very well if shared ABC or I maintain my frame control and now she's the one who's uncomfortable.

Don't forget that girls change their minds all the time and they're well within their right to do so. It's just part of being a chick. If you're a pretty dominant guy, you'll notice that the girls you date usually start changing their opinions slowly towards your views. (This is one of the reasons I'm attracted to stubborn, stronger willed women). There's no reason to show your disapproval for it. Accept it for what it is.

If her sudden opinion change is a deal breaker for you (in this case, her new found religion), then break it off. If its not, then what is it about the conversation that is bothering you? For instance, is she trying to convert you or just wants to tell you about her day(church being part of her day)? You can see how your response would need to differ based on her intentions.

But if you really just don't want to talk about, then yes, you need to stop pussy footing about it and communicate that to her.

-John