FR++ How things can turn around

[Verisimilitude]

So first off, I'm proud of myself, even though I didn't seal the deal. This is because this is the furthest post I've gotten here (progress yay!) and the first time this semester I've gotten a girl in my bed (although I've been in a couple other girl's beds). I'm going to post the whole night FR just to prove a point, so bear with me.

I got to the party early, and started hanging out with my friends, building up some good social momentum. A couple girls came over, and I was getting really good vibes from one of them (her stealing glances mainly). At that point, I was focused on keeping a low-key, dominant vibe and maintaining my fundamentals. I figured that she would be back or sit with me and my friends at the basketball game we were going to. However, after the game, she didn't come back. Chalk that up to how I need to approach ASAP. After the game, things started getting fun and rowdier. I started doing approaches the usual way. Had hit or miss success, the usual way. One girl was really feeling it, but her friends dragged her away. Another girl I thought seemed to like me, but I wasn't into her (not pretty at all) and I didn't want to waste my time. When I approached later, she was cold. I got another bad reaction with a girl who I got her number last weekend, but she seemed creeped out, and I'm really not sure why. As the night wound down, I got increasingly frustrated. Nothing seemed to be going right, and I thought about getting food and leaving. But I decided to stick it out. Another girl who I've had some chemistry with in the past, but nothing significant has happened pulled me up onto a table to dance with her. Unfortunately, I have no idea what to say/do in that moment (for next time, grab her and start dancing, pull her off the dance floor and deep dive, and take her home). After a while, she left and talked to another guy. I really felt like crap then. I thought the night was a waste, and I was getting into depressive thoughts.

As the dance floor was nearly empty, a girl who I have hung out with pulled me to dance with her. She seemed interested and I would have gone for it, but my friend has been going after this girl (the completely wrong way) but I wasn't about to break man code. So after a little bit of dancing, I don't really react and she asks me if I want to dance with her friend (who I have also met and talked to before). I should have realized that this was her setting me up, something that I find girls do when they like a guy but they're sensing some rejection (second time with different girls that this has happened). We dance for a little, and either I suggested we go to talk or she did. Once we are in a quieter place, she looks at me and says "you hate me, don't you?" I laugh and I say, "Hate you? I barely even know you!" (using girl's lines against them haha). But then I suggest that we get to know each other a little bit more. So I deep dive. It isn't perfect, still felt like an interview but it wasn't awful. Then her friend comes back with her guy she's stringing around (my friend) and my friend wants to take the trolley back to our dorm. I kinda blow him off and tell the girl who I'm talking to I don't want to leave yet. But after a while, I grab her and get out of there, and leave the two others. We meet up with them again, and the one of them suggests going back to my place. It takes some convincing (simple reassurance like, "You aren't the worst company in the world, I want you to stay"), but I get the girl takes the trolley back (she mentioned she probably would stay the night if she came back with me, so I took that as a good sign). We leave them again and go back to my room. Unfortunately my roommate "friends" are there to cockblock. They try talking to the girl and don't really engage me. (Later they would tell me I should have taken her to my room, and just ignored them, but they still would've been a barrier. Assholes.) But after some more reassurance, I get her to spend the night. She also says "We can go to your room...and do other fun things?" in the cutest voice and I couldn't help but laugh. I took her to the bed, and the first thing she says is "I'm not having sex with you". I wasn't sure how to handle this, but I wish I had done it differently. We mess around and one of the things I get from when I'm fingering her is how tight she is. Most girls (even girls who say they're virgins) usually I can fit two of my fingers in, but I could only fit one in with her. Does this mean anything? How much can I get from this? She was also pretty short, so that might be it.

The next morning we talk, and end on a decent note (no morning sex though). I text her and tell her we should meet up before spring break, and she seems down, but also mentions midterms, but wants to hang out again.

Sorry for the novel. I'd like to get some input on how to overcome the LMR, and when I should text her again because I'd like to meet up before spring break, but I don't want anything more than casual with this girl.

Tl;dr Met a girl at the end of the night, reassured her enough to come home with me, couldn't overcome/ need advice on LMR and escalation techniques. Also how much can you tell about a girl from how tight she is? I also want to know when I should hang out with her because if I don't this week, it will be a while because of spring break. How do I frame the interaction as casual, but still that I like her enough to do stuff again?

Thanks!

 

[Jay]

Re: FR ++ How things can turn around

CCC,

Alright bro. I don't have much time but I read through this (not a novel btw, fairly normal sized read) and I have a few pointers I want to throw at you.

A couple girls came over, and I was getting really good vibes from one of them (her stealing glances mainly). At that point, I was focused on keeping a low-key, dominant vibe and maintaining my fundamentals. I figured that she would be back or sit with me and my friends at the basketball game we were going to. However, after the game, she didn't come back. Chalk that up to how I need to approach ASAP.

You came to the correct conclusion here. I cannot stress enough the importance of at least opening and engaging a girl if they show any sign of interest in you and you have any sort of interest in them. Even if you don't want to lock yourself into a certain girl for the night, remember that you can always get a number for later.

Another girl I thought seemed to like me, but I wasn't into her (not pretty at all) and I didn't want to waste my time. When I approached later, she was cold.

Don't bother even opening girls that you find unattractive unless they talk to you first, and definitely do not try and open them later on in the night, that makes it seem like you are leading them on, and indirectly makes you seem desperate. If they open you first, be polite and nice to them, but keep the flirting to a minimum.

As the night wound down, I got increasingly frustrated. Nothing seemed to be going right, and I thought about getting food and leaving.

I personally advise never to do this unless you are very, very fucked up, or genuinely feel like just chilling for the night. Remember that it is OK to do this (I myself have had plenty of nights where I just decided fuck it, I'll grab some food, call up the boys, and we can rip the bong until we pass), but if you really need a lay (and only you know when you really need a lay, deep down you will know it) stick it out and see what happens.

Another girl who I've had some chemistry with in the past, but nothing significant has happened pulled me up onto a table to dance with her. Unfortunately, I have no idea what to say/do in that moment (for next time, grab her and start dancing, pull her off the dance floor and deep dive, and take her home).

If you really wanted to fuck this girl you should have denied her offer to dance, grabbed her hand, and told her to follow you instead. In a situation where a girl is asking you to dance at this age, she is either obviously coming on to you or treating you as a friend to have a good time with. Either way, grabbing her and leading her where you want to go to talk and chill is the optimal response, because if she views you as someone she wants to fuck she will go, and if she views you as a platonic friend she will start thinking differently about you because you responded to her like a dominant man rather than a friend bitch, and offer resistance, but resistance that can be overcome.

That being said, you could have danced with her and escalated successfully if you were at a place where a mode of escalation was readily available, or if you were at a point in your game where you can escalate pretty much anywhere.

After a while, she left and talked to another guy. I really felt like crap then. I thought the night was a waste, and I was getting into depressive thoughts.

Remember also that her leaving you and talking to another dude is not the end of the world with her. You can still strategically shift her back to you in good time. Shifting to depressive thoughts because you weren't quite assertive enough is not a good strategy. Remain positive no matter what the outcome; you'd be surprised how much good it does you.

As the dance floor was nearly empty, a girl who I have hung out with pulled me to dance with her. She seemed interested and I would have gone for it, but my friend has been going after this girl (the completely wrong way) but I wasn't about to break man code.

This might sound bad, but bro-code only goes as far for me as the other dude isn't being a pussy. Obviously if he is trying his hardest and has expressed numerous times to me that he wants this specific girl I will back off, but if he is half-assing it, you can't be blamed for jumping on it. That being said, this girl was probably not into you, she just wanted to set her friend up with you.

I should have realized that this was her setting me up, something that I find girls do when they like a guy but they're sensing some rejection (second time with different girls that this has happened).

If you meant what I thought you meant by this statement, this is an incorrect assumption 99% of the time. What I gathered from this statement is that you thought the girl your friend wanted actually wanted you, so she set you up with her friend. This is very unlikely. It is more likely that her friend liked the look of you, and knew that your friend was into her friend, so she asked her to get your attention and direct you towards her.

I have a few other points I want to hit, but for the sake of time I will save them for later and get to the point of your post. LMR.

I took her to the bed, and the first thing she says is "I'm not having sex with you". I wasn't sure how to handle this, but I wish I had done it differently.

The way I would have responded to this is "of course not...". You agree with her statement, but in a way that implies sarcastically that you know the statement is just procedure to protect herself and she wants sex just as much as you do. Any sort of conversation once sexual escalation has begun that isn't foreplay should be disregarded completely. Basically, don't let what she says during escalation deter you from your usual pattern or method of escalating, unless she genuinely seems to be scared; in which case you are doing something very, very wrong.

The only other thing I need to address here is the question of tightness. Tightness does mean something; but what it means varies greatly from girl to girl. Some girls can stay tight even after having had many partners, and some will loosen greatly after one or two dicks. The bottom line is you should treat tightness as an advantage to you rather than a reason to regard the girl as inexperienced, cautious, or reserved.

Hope I offered insight,

Jay

 

[Verisimilitude]

Re: FR ++ How things can turn around

Hey Jay thanks for your response.

If you meant what I thought you meant by this statement, this is an incorrect assumption 99% of the time. What I gathered from this statement is that you thought the girl your friend wanted actually wanted you, so she set you up with her friend. This is very unlikely. It is more likely that her friend liked the look of you, and knew that your friend was into her friend, so she asked her to get your attention and direct you towards her.

It might have been that way in this case..I honestly don't know. But I have had something happen before where a girl who I knew liked me set me up with her friend (but this may have been a while after she liked me and I was in the friend zone with her)

And as for the LMR, I'll keep that in mind. I've been so focused on just the basic steps with girls that I haven't gotten the whole picture yet.

I've only got one more question:
When should I get in contact with her to set something concrete up? I don't want to be clingy, but I don't want auto-reject either. How do I walk that fine line the right way?

 

[Jay]

Re: FR ++ How things can turn around

CCC,

Honestly what I would do is wait until after spring break. You didn't fully close the first time and it actually sounds a little bit like she is trying to set you up as a boyfriend, I actually have a girl friend who is doing this exact thing to a dude right now and comes to me for advice on how to string him along without pushing him away all the time (she blatantly refused to have sex with him, but let him finger her and continues to hang out and make out with him, but nothing more, because she actually likes him). The fact that the friend set her up with you also speaks volumes about this. Did the set up seem random as fuck? The girl probaby saw you, wanted you, and asked her friend who knew you to get you for her.

Basically, if you want a relationship with her, hang out with her some before spring break. If you don't, create some space over break and let her chase you so you can get it in next time you see her in person. Don't ignore her completely or blatantly blow her off, if she texts or calls you to do something right then, it is ok to do it; just don't push for a meet up yourself, and if you do meet her, make sure to avoid boyfriend-like conversation and interaction, keep it sexual.

Jay

 

[Verisimilitude]

Re: FR ++ How things can turn around

Did the set up seem random as fuck? The girl probaby saw you, wanted you, and asked her friend who knew you to get you for her.

I've been in these before, but this one wasn't random. I've talked with this girl before (but only in a platonic way) but not long enough for her to friend-zone me apparently.

As for meeting up, I'm not talking date, I'm talking about an invite to a party/pregame. That way, it stays casual, but enough for her to know it wasn't just a one night thing.

 

[Mr. oblivious]

Re: FR ++ How things can turn around

Good post
I think Jay cover everything

Another thing with the LMR i have found from other similar reports is that if you escalate kind of brushing of the comment and escalate for a while and then when it get to going low (make sure she is in the zone) kinda talk her through it e.g. yes ladder re assuring her etc.