how to ask about an objection?

[Chad Tyrone]

i've used reinforcing that sex won't happen. every time she invites me in she tells me we're not having sex. i always agree, but then try and escalate when we're in. i've reinforced we won't have sex

This as a tactic most of the time is a double-edged sword. Some of the time u may use it and she takes it literally cause u kinda acknowledging her resistance verbally. With most objections u want to keep your mouth shut when they are first brought up. Most women may throw objections out there when u are escalating on them just as a test or to frame them as "not that easy". Remain non-reactive. Maintain a poker face. Stop for a while and then go in again . If she keeps bringing up the same objection or pushing you away then it's time to STOP and address the objection .Mostly, you want to focus on her actions rather than her words(herein objections).

Actually you may escalate on most chicks all way till ur dick is in her yet they may have been bringing up objections all way through the escalation. It shouldn't set things off in your mind when they do this yet they seem so into it. Had chicks who couldn't help but kiss me while still saying they have boyfriends, that they are not that kind of 'girl' or that they don't like sex lol. Fucking undressed them never acknowledging or paying mind to their objections. But yeah you need to be able to tell if she's cool with you progressing further and further, which comes with experience but mutual escalation really does help.

Your tone and facial expressions also do matter when saying "u won't have sex with her". You don't just say it plainly. Throw in a knowing look ,sexy bedroom eyes and a voice full of lust.

Best of luck,
Chad Tyrone

 

[MarioTheDom]

@antidox,

Pretty sure I've seen you reference this same girl in multiple posts now. Some girl you've been after for a while but keep hitting LMR walls.

Suggest you read this post:

Cracking Tough Cases

Every now and again, a guy will meet a girl who seems really great, but despite his best efforts, he just can’t make anything happen with her. It can be very frustrating – especially when it’s a girl he knows well and cares about, and with whom he has a great connection, and whom he maybe even...

www.girlschase.com

... as well as some of the ones on LMR:

How to Get a Girl in Bed: 10 Crucial Tips for Making Her Yours

I haven't touched much on last minute resistance on this site, and it's about the time I got a proper post up on it. Before we jump in, I want to share a note from a reader who wrote in asking about how to get a girl in bed to illustrate what I'll be talking about and provide us an example case...

www.girlschase.com

Initiating Sex | Girls Chase

www.girlschase.com

At a tactical level:

HER: We've talked about this and you know I can't.​

​

YOU: [soft, sensual, gentle voice] Actually, we haven't. So let's talk about it. What is it you can't do?​

​

HER: I can't blah blah blah with a man before marriage.​

​

YOU: [soft, patient voice, like talking to a child, except sexier] Why's that?​

​

HER: Because blah blah blah reasons​

Then you can start addressing them.

That said... you don't have ANY idea why this girl won't hook up with you, despite pursuing her for weeks/months, and having multiple failed escalations with her?

Somewhat off topic: start meeting more girls. You'll find some of these 'tough case' girls resolve themselves naturally as soon as the girl starts smelling competition on you.

Chase

Aside from the very good tips here, my answer to you will be:

How many other girls you are seeing? because if you had "abundancy" you wouldn't be putting your effort in difficult cases like this

 

[PaulieFlyn10]

@antidox reading your situation gives me major flashbacks... I used to run into shit like that all the time. It's hella annoying that a girl is so into you but won't sleep with you because she fears getting hurt

But we have to have some empathy and see where she is coming from. She may have trauma from dealing with a guy she really liked but he did't reciprocate, so she get's noncompliant to get you to commit to her before sex

I know its weird but take it as a compliment because it means the chick really digs you G

Now you may think that the best way to handle this resistance is to cave into her demands and give her what she wants, but this a horrible idea. Because even if you get the lay it will set a horrible precedent and the demands in the relationship will skyrocket

So instead you need to understand the deep underlying dynamic

She really wants you

Duh!!!

She's using commitment tests on you

She using other men to triangulate and display loyalty.... see



The sub communication going on here is... See all these other men want me, but I didn't give them the cheeks. So you better hurry up and wife me up so we can runaway into the sunset or else I may go with one of them

She thinks you're a player

She thinks you have droves of women chasing you probably. This is making your attainability low because she is not sure if you really like her for her.

This may not be horrible if she was looking for a lover but she has firmly placed you in the BF Box so you need to readjust this frame

She not afraid to lose you

She's playing all these games because you have proven with your actions that she can be noncompliant and you will still stick around



I mean even look at these other guys. She is playing the same game on them (supposedly if they're even real) and all of you are her puppets falling for her BS. Giving her attention for nothing in return

SO WHAT IS THE SOLUTION?

With all the information given I think the best course of actions is to...... call her bluff

Look man, this girl is obviously low self esteem and having her as a GF may be a lot of headache in your future. But you can use what she wants as a way to get her more compliant

You need to flip the script

So you should hangout with her and escalate again, but like @Skills said you should try a pattern interrupt. But if she denies you again you need to hijack the frame and friendzone her

"Girl, I like x,y,z about you. When we met I thought we had a connection and was curious to see how it grows. But honestly now I'm not too sure anymore. Every girlfriend I've had, we started with pure passion, tons of chemistry and things evolved naturally. But maybe we don't have that and are incompatible. I'm cool with it because you're pretty dope but maybe we're better as friends"

This should make her realize that her tactic isn't working and if she doesn't start shaping up she could lose you for good. It should also ease pressure about you only wanting her for sex and being able to see her as a real human. And seperate you from all the other chumps because you're the only one that has the balls to call her out on her BS

She might fuck you then and there or drop off and swing back later for some fun with a friend after all her BF prospects dry up

Hate to say it but sometimes people respond better to the fear of losing something great rather than gaining something pleasant

Yup pretty sound advice.

I don't get that you mean by pattern interrupt suggested by @Skills

I read the post he linked, and it seemed to suggest that OP should try to make the lover thing more ambiguous and become more like a provider. Not really sure about what you mean by pattern interrupt


Last paragraph is so true I'd say in majority of cases. Fear of loss usually over powers fear of gain.

"You could lose your eyes forever without these glasses" sounds a bit more striking than "Get these glasses and see things you haven't seen before"

 

[Skills]

Yup pretty sound advice.

I don't get that you mean by pattern interrupt suggested by @Skills

I read the post he linked, and it seemed to suggest that OP should try to make the lover thing more ambiguous and become more like a provider. Not really sure about what you mean by pattern interrupt


Last paragraph is so true I'd say in majority of cases. Fear of loss usually over powers fear of gain.

"You could lose your eyes forever without these glasses" sounds a bit more striking than "Get these glasses and see things you haven't seen before"

You totally misunderstood, and lump two different points that have nothing to do with each other together, obviously why you are asking clarification:

The op and the target are getting into a dynamic, routine, pattern which is they hang out, they like each other they mess around, and when is time to put dick in pussy, she wiggles fingers nonono! rinse wash repeat.... she is comfortable and use to this dynamic and know she has op by the balls and can get away with it.... That is why the more you don't fuck the girl while seeing her, the more your odds go to shit (for example if i don't fuck a girl after 2 encounters my odds go to shit, i don't even bother, unless from day 1 to date 2 the escalation has increase A LOT and some logistical issue is the problem), other than this personally i am out...

@TomInHo advice to the op is right on, to interrupt the patter/dynamic/rotine of hanging out, messing around, when time to put dick in pussy..... nooonononono!, the only problem i have with it is that, since the op is coming across too playerish to, she may smell a tactic, or a bluff by verbalizing..... Obviously tominho and i can get away with saying things like that (i say something similar i linked the post), the thing is the hb is thinking the dude may be gaming her, so in this case i would not verbalize but just be out like the same @Chase sample (exactly like chase sample) actually is the same dynamics of guys that break up with hb, and are trying to logically convince her to get back (does not work) that is why we advise go cold turkey, no contact, and hb usually if done properly no contact, will reach out within 1 month or 3 month or 6 months or a year, but she will reach out and chase.... Withdrawing from the attention and giving the fear of loss will make her chase (again like chase sample in this post)...


the post i linked is cause guys start overcompensating with this player persona trying to imitate guys that are already calibrated and good (lets say teevester) but is not the same, so they come across calculating, and overly playerish.... Which scare the fuck out of the hb (like this case), but i never say to sell provider.... What i say do not come across overly playerish to the point that she scare you will hurt her, you need to give the girl some rope, the frame is yeah this is a lover, but i can flip him and he can be with me long term and be a good boyfriend possibility somewhere(the provider % which is small), i can compete with the other girls take over and make him be with me.... (some women need to believe that there is a possibility somewhere, false hope from us).... No all girls is some girls, you need to calibrate to girl and situation....

 

[Skills]

This as a tactic most of the time is a double-edged sword. Some of the time u may use it and she takes it literally cause u kinda acknowledging her resistance verbally.

that is not what i do for context read the post at the end there is a lay report for context...

 

[Chad Tyrone]

that is not what i do for context read the post at the end there is a lay report for context...

haha may work both ways. Thing is either way the guy keeps escalating regardless of the "no sex" objection. But yeah i agree with your post and Velasco's: "ok, it's fine no sex" then keep arousing her till her horny side is back .

10000 failures? Sounds like Tony D's though his is a thousand tiny failures. I may be wrong but Zardoz does sound like him.

 

[Skills]

10000 failures? Sounds like Tony D's though his is a thousand tiny failures. I may be wrong but Zardoz does sound like him.

zardoz is tony d

 

[antidox]

Yeah that changes everything. This is an EFA problem (early frame announcement).

The problem lies in that fact that a clear sexual frame wasn't set early on, and that too much boyfriend/provider frame was set. This is the primary cfause of LMR.

The OP simply applied the wrong solution to the wrong problem.

Simple as that.

Good observation @Skills

-Teevster

@Teevster @Skills

i don't think this was an efa, it took her months to raise this objection where i feel she has done so because she has been pushing for a relationship and i haven't fallen into her frame.

i set a clear sexual frame from the night i met her, i created an intimate bubble, set a sexual precedent, isolated her and tried to extract from the club, when i couldn't extract because she was staying with her friend i opted for the number close. there was no boyfriend/provider frame set, my intentions were very clear and she has described me as being very sexual, confident and dominant. attainability was a problem.

lmr happened before i shown more boyfriend potential. i had to up the comfort to make her feel like she wasn't just a number which i done so.

i started showing more boyfriend potential which is what she needed, she assumed i was a fuck boy and still thinks i am. i have only bought her a drink twice, once on our first date, once in a club after. she has bought me 2 drinks and got her friend to buy me a drink. i have done very little to set a boyfriend frame other than being persistent.

the problem keeps changing, i have tried different solutions and encountering another problem.

AntiDox

 

[antidox]

Aside from the very good tips here, my answer to you will be:

How many other girls you are seeing? because if you had "abundancy" you wouldn't be putting your effort in difficult cases like this

@MarioTheDom i'm constantly meeting chicks but i'm currently not seeing any others. i try to hook up on the first night with little success, if i can't extract/logistic issues i go for a number close which usually leads to fsc the next day and texts go unanswered or i meet more skittish chicks.

i seem to find super skittish tough case chicks quite often. attainability seems to be a huge sticking point for me even in the hook stage. i've documented this a few times but can't fix my issue.

AntiDox

 

[Chad Tyrone]

@Teevster @Skills

i don't think this was an efa, it took her months to raise this objection where i feel she has done so because she has been pushing for a relationship and i haven't fallen into her frame.

i set a clear sexual frame from the night i met her, i created an intimate bubble, set a sexual precedent, isolated her and tried to extract from the club, when i couldn't extract because she was staying with her friend i opted for the number close. there was no boyfriend/provider frame set, my intentions were very clear and she has described me as being very sexual, confident and dominant. attainability was a problem.

lmr happened before i shown more boyfriend potential. i had to up the comfort to make her feel like she wasn't just a number which i done so.

i started showing more boyfriend potential which is what she needed, she assumed i was a fuck boy and still thinks i am. i have only bought her a drink twice, once on our first date, once in a club after. she has bought me 2 drinks and got her friend to buy me a drink. i have done very little to set a boyfriend frame other than being persistent.

the problem keeps changing, i have tried different solutions and encountering another problem.

AntiDox

time to move on bro...at times interactions don't pan out as planned. That may mean your game needs work while other times it's just the randomness there is to game. By meeting more chicks and working to solidify your process you add more skill and luck to your interactions. I'm all for seeking solutions but past a certain point it veers into "can't stop thinking of her" territory where one is focused on saving an interaction with that special girl. You talking of months here...seems you have been working on her.

Not to knock you here ...just to say that you should be moving faster within reason of course while still cutting chords or withdrawing interest with go-nowhere leads. You may sometimes chip hours at it with a given chick and finally get her, but it's a low-odd strategy. This is time best spent improving your skillset with other women. It's an "I can easily replace you" mindset. Having this belief with time translates to an abundance one.

It's high time you started doing things strictly on your terms. Enough chasing.

Chad Tyrone