How to deal with girls telling you what to do/tasking you

[ChrisXKiss]

I’ve had this happen quite a few times in my life and in different occasions. I basically mean a girl that you like telling you to do something either related to you two directly or not.

Some personal examples:

Case 1:

We had texted with this girl and two others via a common group chat of students to organise a hike. We didn’t know each other and met on that day of the hike for the first time all together.

It was around covid time so my social interactions were non existent and when I saw her in person I feel this was obvious together with how excited I was to see her since she was quite pretty.

At some point during the hike we came across a swing. One of the other girls wanted to try it, so this girl I liked took out her phone and told me: Hey go push her, I’ll take a video. Then as I was pushing she was like: Yeah great! Do it more!. Eventually we happened to meet again with this girl in a common friend group and I had a crush for some time, while she had obviously friendzoned me.

Case 2:

I cold approached this girl outside a bar as she was talking with her friend and complimented her. Almost instantly she told me to come in the bar with her and offered me a drink because she said I seemed very kind.

In a bit she left with her friends for a karaoke bar, when I tried to go along, one of the guys told me where I think I am going, and then this girl intervened saying: He is good, he is coming with us.

At the karaoke we were having fun singing and at some point this girl came to me and because I was still wearing my coat, she told me: Hey, take off that coat, you look like a totally nerdy guy from X university ( the one we both graduated ). She basically even grabbed the coat and took it off a bit herself. After taking it off, we spent the rest of the night partying, and finished with some fast food all together, before I took her number, to which she responded, but ghosted me when I asked to meet again.

Case 3:

Was living with 4 other girls in the same apartment during a summer internship and we were out together for a drink.

When we finished they were planning to go home, but I had met some other friends of mine and told my flatmates to go back without me, as I would be going to a club with them.

One of my flatmates, the cutest in my eyes, told me something along the lines of: Hey be safe there, and don’t come back very late!. All in a very motherly tone, which she had never used before, and it weirded me out. Not sure if I responded something, I just went and had a normal night out, never making a move on that flatmate.

Case 4:

I matched with this girl on Tinder and we went for a date close to my place. We had drinks and some food and then I invited her home.

We watched a movie and when I tried to go for a kiss she told me she likes me but I have to cut this beard I have off or there is no kiss.

She also didn’t want to drink from my tap and told me my bath was messy, which no other girl has mentioned, but what stroke me was how demanding she was about me shaving my beard if I want a kiss. Didn’t do it and we didn’t meet again.

Case 5:

Instant date with a very hot gogo dancer girl, she wasn’t investing a lot in the conversation, I was trying to deep dive but she wasn’t giving me much.

As we were leaving the coffee place walking together, she was struggling to carry a big back of groceries and I noticed that, so she asked me to carry that for her.

I told her I need to see her eyes first, because she was wearing shades all this time, she grunted, eventually took them off to show her eyes, and I took the bags for few minutes until our next stop. Never heard again from her eventually.

Case 6:

I happened to meet this cutely hot girl inside a plane, she was sitting a sit away, with a very talkative guy in the middle that kinda introduced us all together. Of course I had noticed her before that though.

Due to a problem with the aircraft we had to get out and wait in the airport for few hours. There I went to talk to her and her friend again for some related matter and they invited me to sit together.

There we talked for a while and she gave me a lunchbox full of berries to hold and eat however much I wanted. At some point I was holding it a bit in an unstable way with my hands, and she told me something like: Hey don’t hold it like that, leave it there.

We spent some more time hanging out, I think I eventually felt more interest coming from her friend that was less cute. But I wasn’t going to be staying to the same place after the flight, so we never exchanged contacts anyway


Now these are situations spread out over many years that came to my mind pretty fast regarding the issue of the title. Maybe there have been more similar ones that I don’t remember in specific. For example I’ve had it happen sometimes when I take dance classes that my partner is telling me directly not to do this or that, or that I should do something different in quite an “I know better” tone.

And I may be a bit clumsy, awkward or socially uncalibrated sometimes, so maybe some of these comments make sense, but they all still make me feel like the girl has zero attraction and respect towards me, or she wouldn’t be bossing me around.

And what I notice is that things like that happen mostly with girls that I have taken a particular liking to, whether I have verbalised it or not, and quite fast as well, during our first meeting usually.

And I wonder how to handle them because it feels I either have to accept their lead in order to hang around, or if I decline what they ask it will be socially uncalibrated and harm attainability.

I know that flirting is a good option, the thing is it doesn’t come to my mind at that right moment usually, I just feel that some of the things they tell me or ask me to do are logical, and maybe I am overthinking it or overreacting to them.

In the end I feel it has to do with how I come off in general. This doesn’t happen with all girls, mostly with those that have a bit stronger personalities, and the problem is although I love them, it seems that they instantly see me as not dominant enough for them.

And it’s not that I chase them in a particular way, most of the times I am just interested to get to know them, but maybe I subtly show chasing behaviours right from the start.

So I guess the question could also be how to earn the respect of a hot girl fast so that she doesn’t even think of trying to boss you around and tell you what to do, and if she does how to respond in an effective way.

 

[Atlas IV]

It's hard to say what the problem is without knowing much about your vibe in person but

and the problem is although I love them, it seems that they instantly see me as not dominant enough for them.

It seems like you already know the answer. You're not dominant enough or you're giving off the vibe of a guy who they can order around. Working on your fundamentals will help most with this. Also, tease them a little the next time it happens, even just answering "of course, ma'am" with a playful smirk to show you don't take her seriously, would be better than just obediently doing the thing.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

It's hard to say what the problem is without knowing much about your vibe in person but

It seems like you already know the answer. You're not dominant enough or you're giving off the vibe of a guy who they can order around. Working on your fundamentals will help most with this. Also, tease them a little the next time it happens, even just answering "of course, ma'am" with a playful smirk to show you don't take her seriously, would be better than just obediently doing the thing.

Yeah I do agree, my issue is that because this happens almost right away when we meet, I can kinda feel their assessment of me from how they treat me from the open a lot of times, it seems quite combative to tease them.

In a way I would say they won't even buy it, like: yeah nice try, but everything else screams you are not that guy. I suppose it's still worth it to tease them, play with them and not blindly comply, but I do agree there has to be a more fundamental change.

The thing is I am not sure which fundamental change that is, because it's not that I approach these girls in a very different way than other girls. And with a similar kind of approach I can get girls that like me and are into me, normally more naturally submissive, inexperienced and feminine ones, and others that feel like I am not man enough for them, more the socially dominant, experienced and independent ones.

Could it be that it is just how this second category tests for dominance, and I should just brush it off, laugh about it and keep going? I think my main problem behaviourally wise is that I am fully ready to lead when they are more submissive, but when they are more dominant and try to lead themselves I have a vibe of sure whatever, do what you feel like, because I don't want to be domineering. But maybe this makes me seem eventually weak in their eyes.

For a better example, let's say I go out with a friend for food. If the friend has no preference I will say you know what, I know this good pizza place we can go. If he comes telling me though that he would really love some asian and he wants to go to this new asian place, my response would be like sure man let's go there, because I am really doing it for the company and not for the food in the end. And I think I treat women like that as well, which is maybe not effective with the more dominant ones, as I am giving them a lot of space to be in control and do what they want.

And all this probably comes off through my vibe right away, that we are chill, and I won't pressure you that much, when they really want to be pressured more to feel something. I guess the struggle is how to find the balance between getting more dominant, while not ending up overbearing.

 

[Bill]

At some point during the hike we came across a swing. One of the other girls wanted to try it, so this girl I liked took out her phone and told me: Hey go push her, I’ll take a video. Then as I was pushing she was like: Yeah great! Do it more!. Eventually we happened to meet again with this girl in a common friend group and I had a crush for some time, while she had obviously friendzoned me.

This seems like a frame game where she subconsciously presents a hoop for you to jump through to control frame.

It‘s countered by taking the hoop, in this case you could take the phone and say you’ll video them, or presenting your own smaller hoop first, “do you want to try that again with manners?” (Get her to say please). If you did jump through it and did as she requested, you could then try to re-establish by turning it around, say that now you’ll film them, and as you film them or take a photo give subtle directions.

Case 5:

Instant date with a very hot gogo dancer girl, she wasn’t investing a lot in the conversation, I was trying to deep dive but she wasn’t giving me much.

As we were leaving the coffee place walking together, she was struggling to carry a big back of groceries and I noticed that, so she asked me to carry that for her.

I told her I need to see her eyes first, because she was wearing shades all this time, she grunted, eventually took them off to show her eyes, and I took the bags for few minutes until our next stop. Never heard again from her eventually.

In this case she may have felt a down slope of emotions which she associated with your presence, to counter that you can try to create a positive spike of emotions before the interaction ended. Such as complimenting her eyes or using some humor or teasing to make her laugh. You can also try and get an agreement on a second meeting during the first while she’s in a positive state.

 

[gameboy]

Just try it. My first thought was, make a joke about it to show them you don't take them all to seriously.

Thinking it's too combative is just another symptom in my opinion. Dont't make it combative, just fun. You can still comply if it makes sense.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

This seems like a frame game where she subconsciously presents a hoop for you to jump through to control frame.

It‘s countered by taking the hoop, in this case you could take the phone and say you’ll video them, or presenting your own smaller hoop first, “do you want to try that again with manners?” (Get her to say please). If you did jump through it and did as she requested, you could then try to re-establish by turning it around, say that now you’ll film them, and as you film them or take a photo give subtle directions.

Yeah it's exactly how it felt to me and why I didn't like it and remember it after years.

I like your approach a lot. I think I felt it would be too try-hard or reactive to do something like this. But if I could have kept my cool while doing it I can see it would have worked well.

In this case she may have felt a down slope of emotions which she associated with your presence, to counter that you can try to create a positive spike of emotions before the interaction ended. Such as complimenting her eyes or using some humor or teasing to make her laugh. You can also try and get an agreement on a second meeting during the first while she’s in a positive state.

To be honest I really feel this one considered me way lower value and not a man she would ever sleep with, which is why she wanted me to take her bag and didn't even want to comply showing her eyes.

I also like the general approach though.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

Thinking it's too combative is just another symptom in my opinion. Dont't make it combative, just fun. You can still comply if it makes sense.

Yeah this is a good point. I think I get a lot into the mindset of: Shit she is trying to grab the frame, I have to fight back!. And everything I do as a response to her action feels very reactive. Or I do nothing and try to comply in the coolest way possible if I have to. It still feels like a frame hit though.

I agree that taking it less seriously and being more fun and playful can change the energy.

 

[Bill]

But if I could have kept my cool while doing it I can see it would have worked well.

A way to challenge frames without butting heads is using humor / playfulness / pattern interrupts that are less likely to be resisted

 

[orkie123]

The problem is that you are not taking control of the situations for so long, that the girl has to take control whether she wants to or not.

Case 1: Unless she was being rude, this just seems fun. If it became a little too much - just joke about it "that'll be 100 euros for video technical support". I wouldnt worry about this interaction.

Case 2:
This is a tough one to get the full vibe but I would have made an effort to get to know all her friends or made it more clear with her what the plan is. I would have also put a time limit to Karaoke (which you dont have to realise if things are going well). Finally, I would have used the group as social proof to pull other girls or if the girl you were talking to seemed interest, would have isolated her every once in a while "lets go grab a drink", "lets get some fresh air outside" to get more privacy.

Her: yeah we going to Karaoke now with my friends
You: ooh Im the master of karaoke, probably gotta go in a hour but enough time for a song or 3
Her: Then you should come
You: awesome - introduce me to your friends

The point is this - you dont look like you have no idea what to do, you are social and even though she has the upper hand, you are excused in this situation because people value being the new person in an established friend group.

Case 3:

I think you are taking this the wrong way. Female flatmates, especially some girls have rules to protect eachother so she was probably just extending that to you. But if you think she was being too motherly, just tease back.

"Thanks mum, I won't drink and drive and will be back before 11." Then blow her a kiss.

Case 4: This was either a shit test or a shit excuse because she couldnt think of anything else to say.

I think the battle was lost here before the kiss either way. You either missed an escalation window or you gave the vibe that you are not sexually experienced. Tinder + her agreeing to come back means she was 99% down to fuck. Read the articles on kino and escalation and see if there was anything you missed.
My bet is that you took too long to go for the kiss and fumbled around instead.

Case 5:

She does sound like she wasnt interested but you noticed the situation and should have been first to take action.

"Someone bought more groceries, than she could handle... if only there was a handsome gentleman here to help"
Look around mockingly than say "Me? You think I'm handsome? Okay you won me, I'll carry them to xyz location but then I gotta go as there are others who need the help of handsome guy" than a smirk to indicate that you are exagerating for effect.

Case 6: this one you are missunderstanding. Given that you, yourself knew the way the box was unstable, you should have said.
"These berries were delicious, do you have somewhere to put the box away as I dont want them flying off when we hit turbulence" or whatever really.


Summary is this. I dont think its girls being dominant over you. Its you not taking control of situations to the point where the girl has no choice but to take it upon herself.

 

[KJ Francis]

I highly recommend you check out Franco's 2004 Manual of Seduction. He covers this extensively and calls the "subservient frame" seduction's enemy number one that 90% of women will test for in the first meeting.

He claims women at the same time both want and not want you to be subservient to them. Rejecting it will turn her on despite what she says verbally.

His solution also uses humor, and even amplifies her negative emotions. It's quite a read.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

Summary is this. I dont think its girls being dominant over you. Its you not taking control of situations to the point where the girl has no choice but to take it upon herself.

Hey thanks for this perspective. I see how you go about it. Wouldn't eventually the fact that I don't take control make me seem not dominant and them having to step into that role? I can see how I could be forcing it by inaction.

Finally, I would have used the group as social proof to pull other girls or if the girl you were talking to seemed interest, would have isolated her every once in a while "lets go grab a drink", "lets get some fresh air outside" to get more privacy.

Her: yeah we going to Karaoke now with my friends
You: ooh Im the master of karaoke, probably gotta go in a hour but enough time for a song or 3
Her: Then you should come
You: awesome - introduce me to your friends

The point is this - you dont look like you have no idea what to do, you are social and even though she has the upper hand, you are excused in this situation because people value being the new person in an established friend group.

I did open some girls at the first bar through all that. But this one didn't seem that interested, and even told me she had to stay with her friends that night because one of them was sad having relationship issues and she had to take care of that. Maybe I should have bounced to other people after knowing this.

Also I honestly had no idea what to do haha, I was going home before meeting them and my whole vibe was why not, if you have some fun plan I'll join. Love the high value way you presented it though, this is stuff I should start doing when meeting new people.

I think the battle was lost here before the kiss either way. You either missed an escalation window or you gave the vibe that you are not sexually experienced. Tinder + her agreeing to come back means she was 99% down to fuck. Read the articles on kino and escalation and see if there was anything you missed.
My bet is that you took too long to go for the kiss and fumbled around instead.

Yeah this happened quite some time ago, and you are right. She in fact told me about the beard pretty early, even before the pull, so when I did it, I wasn't expecting much. I told her to come home for a movie, she was hesitant, I assured her it is for a movie, and well, we did watch the whole movie haha.

I think I maybe hugged her a bit during the movie and tried to make some moves, but I felt there was no escalation sign and waited for the movie to end to make a big move. I still remember the movie in fact, it was the first time watching one with a girl, quite a weird supernatural horror story, but I never even once thought of stopping it before the end, it felt like there was no right moment. In the end when I went for the kiss, she told me again that I have to shave my beard.

Anyway, I have never brought a girl home for a movie after that, I always find other excuses because I know I will probably watch the whole thing unless she literally jumps on me.

She does sound like she wasnt interested but you noticed the situation and should have been first to take action.

"Someone bought more groceries, than she could handle... if only there was a handsome gentleman here to help"
Look around mockingly than say "Me? You think I'm handsome? Okay you won me, I'll carry them to xyz location but then I gotta go as there are others who need the help of handsome guy" than a smirk to indicate that you are exagerating for effect.

Case 6: this one you are missunderstanding. Given that you, yourself knew the way the box was unstable, you should have said.
"These berries were delicious, do you have somewhere to put the box away as I dont want them flying off when we hit turbulence" or whatever really.

Yeah I see your points here, better to be proactive about situations you notice and not wait and hope she won't or will say nothing about them.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

I highly recommend you check out Franco's 2004 Manual of Seduction. He covers this extensively and calls the "subservient frame" seduction's enemy number one that 90% of women will test for in the first meeting.

He claims women at the same time both want and not want you to be subservient to them. Rejecting it will turn her on despite what she says verbally.

His solution also uses humor, and even amplifies her negative emotions. It's quite a read.

Thanks had never heard of that one, and it does sound like exactly this particular issue!

 

[KJ Francis]

Thanks had never heard of that one, and it does sound like exactly this particular issue!

Yeah he says it is her evolutionary goal to get the man to protect the children, then fall out of love with him once she owns him so she can move on to the next mate for genetic diversity. Good for nature (not for you).

Chase has a great awareness of the entire "dating industry" so I am very careful not to ingest mindsets outside of the "Girls Chase Cinematic Universe" so to speak.

Joseph W. South had written articles here, and Franco was a co-author of his book Practical Female Psychology. Alek has also credited Franco in an article. It's mind-opening stuff.

 

[Warped Mindless]

Girls Chase Cinematic Universe

That’s perfect

 

[ChrisXKiss]

Yeah he says it is her evolutionary goal to get the man to protect the children, then fall out of love with him once she owns him so she can move on to the next mate for genetic diversity. Good for nature (not for you).

Chase has a great awareness of the entire "dating industry" so I am very careful not to ingest mindsets outside of the "Girls Chase Cinematic Universe" so to speak.

Joseph W. South had written articles here, and Franco was a co-author of his book Practical Female Psychology. Alek has also credited Franco in an article. It's mind-opening stuff.

Yeah I am familiar with this topic, I guess I manage to somehow achieve to be owned extremely fast by some women haha

I don't mind checking some other mindsets and approaches, but sometimes I don't even know about some of this old school material. I am constantly surprised by how evolved the pickup community was in the past, and how many great contributors existed.

I think the whole industry has been in a such a decline, and focused on beginner material mostly, that I was even shocked to see some of the advanced approaches through this forum.

I mean in a good way, shocked by how far it can go, because it's the only place I've found where people treat seduction as a skill to get great at.

 

[KJ Francis]

That’s perfect

Yeah man haha I am looking forward to your daygame book!

 

[KJ Francis]

Yeah I am familiar with this topic, I guess I manage to somehow achieve to be owned extremely fast by some women haha

I don't mind checking some other mindsets and approaches, but sometimes I don't even know about some of this old school material. I am constantly surprised by how evolved the pickup community was in the past, and how many great contributors existed.

I think the whole industry has been in a such a decline, and focused on beginner material mostly, that I was even shocked to see some of the advanced approaches through this forum.

I mean in a good way, shocked by how far it can go, because it's the only place I've found where people treat seduction as a skill to get great at.

He calls it an abberation of man's natural instinct to be a protector, so it's ok! Abundance helps a lot!

I think of it like signalling to her where the two of you fall on the SMV supply & demand curve.

Pickup's VERY scientific. Just look at this graph Chase drew...

And the hot/crazy matrix found in a GC article

I'm kidding lol Michael Sartain fired off a bunch of evolutionary psychology books at Mystery and he was like... Uhhh.... I've read the Red Queen...?


Like Skills and Warped have been extolling the virtues of field testing recently and it seems very true... Mystery immersed himself first, then reverse engineered the M3 model. I believe after reading Swinggcat, Chase first learned from Sebastian Marshall (or Sebastian Drake, I think same guy)... And Vin DiCarlo, who was a janitor living in a van but had a PhD and reverse engineered Sebastian's natural game.

Vin's books are the Attraction Code and Pandora's Box. Sebastian has the Approach Blueprint floating out there somewhere.

So the science is kind of fuzzily applied and more of a lighthouse applied to insights from guys with hundreds of lays and thousands of approaches, but Chase has managed to step up the science validity to back up his field-gained intuitions.

 

[Will_V]

Some personal examples:


Case 1:

We had texted with this girl and two others via a common group chat of students to organise a hike. We didn’t know each other and met on that day of the hike for the first time all together.

It was around covid time so my social interactions were non existent and when I saw her in person I feel this was obvious together with how excited I was to see her since she was quite pretty.

At some point during the hike we came across a swing. One of the other girls wanted to try it, so this girl I liked took out her phone and told me: Hey go push her, I’ll take a video. Then as I was pushing she was like: Yeah great! Do it more!. Eventually we happened to meet again with this girl in a common friend group and I had a crush for some time, while she had obviously friendzoned me.

So she wanted to get a video of her friend being pushed on a swing? No need to take it seriously. Just do it (if you feel like it) and take the opportunity to tease, like 'eh haven't you two grown out of it by now?'.

Case 2:

I cold approached this girl outside a bar as she was talking with her friend and complimented her. Almost instantly she told me to come in the bar with her and offered me a drink because she said I seemed very kind.

I mean, it's not a great frame for a girl to invite you for a drink because you seem kind-hearted, but whatever, an opportunity is an opportunity.

There's a common thread here though where girls seem to take a sort of 'pity' on you because they think you are nice but weak.

This isn't a terrible starting point, because it means you're a guy that girls instinctively like, but if you want them to be sexually attracted you'll have to take care of the 'weak' aspect.

In a bit she left with her friends for a karaoke bar, when I tried to go along, one of the guys told me where I think I am going, and then this girl intervened saying: He is good, he is coming with us.

So here is where you did not establish yourself as a cool, likeable, sociable guy. From his perspective, this dumb girl dragged you in off the street to rain on his parade. He's already part of the group and you're just some rando. You gotta show him some respect and ideally make him like you so he doesn't cockblock.

At the karaoke we were having fun singing and at some point this girl came to me and because I was still wearing my coat, she told me: Hey, take off that coat, you look like a totally nerdy guy from X university ( the one we both graduated ).

That's a bit of very gentle tooling right there and should be the signal to you that you're coming across nerdy and socially weak. You gotta read these signals and adjust accordingly, on the fly, in these kind of social situations. Start by showing her less attention, befriend and connect with others in the group and have fun with them, and make her chase your attention.

She basically even grabbed the coat and took it off a bit herself. After taking it off, we spent the rest of the night partying, and finished with some fast food all together, before I took her number, to which she responded, but ghosted me when I asked to meet again.

You just didn't establish yourself as cool, likeable, and sociable enough to continue being part of the group or being seen with her.

Case 3:

Was living with 4 other girls in the same apartment during a summer internship and we were out together for a drink.

When we finished they were planning to go home, but I had met some other friends of mine and told my flatmates to go back without me, as I would be going to a club with them.

One of my flatmates, the cutest in my eyes, told me something along the lines of: Hey be safe there, and don’t come back very late!. All in a very motherly tone, which she had never used before, and it weirded me out. Not sure if I responded something, I just went and had a normal night out, never making a move on that flatmate.

She probably is just motherly like that. But again it could also be a sign to her that you come across naive and like someone could take advantage of that. That's where working on your fundamentals, a strong masculine presence, and having a good social frame comes in.

Case 4:

I matched with this girl on Tinder and we went for a date close to my place. We had drinks and some food and then I invited her home.

We watched a movie and when I tried to go for a kiss she told me she likes me but I have to cut this beard I have off or there is no kiss.

She also didn’t want to drink from my tap and told me my bath was messy, which no other girl has mentioned, but what stroke me was how demanding she was about me shaving my beard if I want a kiss. Didn’t do it and we didn’t meet again.

She simply wasn't attracted, for whatever reason. Girls don't care about these things when they are horny for you.

Case 5:

Instant date with a very hot gogo dancer girl, she wasn’t investing a lot in the conversation, I was trying to deep dive but she wasn’t giving me much.

As we were leaving the coffee place walking together, she was struggling to carry a big back of groceries and I noticed that, so she asked me to carry that for her.

I told her I need to see her eyes first, because she was wearing shades all this time, she grunted, eventually took them off to show her eyes, and I took the bags for few minutes until our next stop. Never heard again from her eventually.

So the instadate didn't go well, that was the real problem.

Case 6:

I happened to meet this cutely hot girl inside a plane, she was sitting a sit away, with a very talkative guy in the middle that kinda introduced us all together. Of course I had noticed her before that though.

Due to a problem with the aircraft we had to get out and wait in the airport for few hours. There I went to talk to her and her friend again for some related matter and they invited me to sit together.

There we talked for a while and she gave me a lunchbox full of berries to hold and eat however much I wanted. At some point I was holding it a bit in an unstable way with my hands, and she told me something like: Hey don’t hold it like that, leave it there.

We spent some more time hanging out, I think I eventually felt more interest coming from her friend that was less cute. But I wasn’t going to be staying to the same place after the flight, so we never exchanged contacts anyway

Not sure what it means to be holding the box in an unstable way, but maybe your presentation and body language was not doing it for her.

And I may be a bit clumsy, awkward or socially uncalibrated sometimes, so maybe some of these comments make sense, but they all still make me feel like the girl has zero attraction and respect towards me, or she wouldn’t be bossing me around.

The way I see it, when girls treat you a certain way, just look at it like Mother Nature is giving you a hint that you need to develop this or that part of yourself. Because that's what women are, they are nature's agents, and if you don't take it personally they will reveal all sorts of weaknesses you never knew you had, and give you wonderful opportunities and motivation to develop yourself.

That's how it was for me - I used to be incredibly socially awkward and uncalibrated at school and even going into university. I had to work on myself a lot, and part of that was to let go of my ego that was attached to my previous identity, and just accept that guys who come across a certain way get a certain kind of result.

And afterward you realize that your old identity wasn't one you really chose for yourself, whereas the identity you have after you've worked on yourself and become your ideal self, is truly yours.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

There's a common thread here though where girls seem to take a sort of 'pity' on you because they think you are nice but weak.

This isn't a terrible starting point, because it means you're a guy that girls instinctively like, but if you want them to be sexually attracted you'll have to take care of the 'weak' aspect.

Yeah I do get that. I remember once I had a girl telling me she would like to get me in their only-girls friend group chat after few hours of interacting together, because I was so supportive and felt like I understood them a lot. I even told her, lol thanks but you don't want me there, I'm a guy.

I suppose it's not a bad thing in itself, but I know I have to be coming off as more masculine, and someone they would want to have sex with. One thing I am not sure is which way to take that though. I mean whether it's better to go towards some kind of Sean Connery masculine, or some Russell Brand kind of type, or something totally different.

Not sure if you feel that somehow or you experiment and see what fits you.

So here is where you did not establish yourself as a cool, likeable, sociable guy. From his perspective, this dumb girl dragged you in off the street to rain on his parade. He's already part of the group and you're just some rando. You gotta show him some respect and ideally make him like you so he doesn't cockblock.

Yeah I really didn't talk to her friends, I should be doing that more when with groups. It saved me that she kinda seemed to be calling the shots among them.

That's a bit of very gentle tooling right there and should be the signal to you that you're coming across nerdy and socially weak. You gotta read these signals and adjust accordingly, on the fly, in these kind of social situations. Start by showing her less attention, befriend and connect with others in the group and have fun with them, and make her chase your attention.

Yeah I'd say it seemed way more than just gentle to me, at least I guess I can recognise the power plays. That's a good point, I don't remember how exactly the night went on, at some point she even started kissing a bit with her guy friend that had the relationship problems lol, I surely talked to some others, but didn't deliberately withdraw attention.

I think that subconsciously things like this make me feel that girls are paying attention to me and are interested in some way, so even if I recognise that it sets a bad frame, I can't help but feel they like me or they wouldn't care. It probably also plays into some kind of fantasy I've had of the experienced girl, seducing the shy nerdy guy, and showing him what real sex is about. But it has never worked like that in real life, so I should consciously remind myself that every time I sense a frame grab or tooling it's always bad, taking me away from sex and I should deal with it.

You just didn't establish yourself as cool, likeable, and sociable enough to continue being part of the group or being seen with her.

Yeah didn't care about the group to be honest. But I didn't show any qualities that would make me an exciting lover to her for sure. I should have been more proactive, social and cool/seductive since I decided to hang around, and not stayed as that random guy that tagged along for the night. I think in the end I even told her to exchange numbers to give her some money for the food, and she told me to cut the bullshit and that she doesn't care about my money, so I told her I loved her whole vibe and want to see her again. I think I was playing it too safe and indirect the whole night, and she wanted someone way more purposeful, going after what he wants.

She probably is just motherly like that. But again it could also be a sign to her that you come across naive and like someone could take advantage of that. That's where working on your fundamentals, a strong masculine presence, and having a good social frame comes in.

I do think it is the second one, because she only said that when I was planning to go out to party with some guys that seemed way crazier than she was used to see me around. I probably wanted to give such nice, naive vibe to these girls as well, so that they could feel safe with me living with them. Not sure how good a choice that was.

Not sure what it means to be holding the box in an unstable way, but maybe your presentation and body language was not doing it for her.

I basically had taken the top off, and was balancing the box on its top which had a weird curvature making it unstable. I do think she was right about telling me this, it just still felt bad being treated like this clumsy person that needs instructions to do things right.

The way I see it, when girls treat you a certain way, just look at it like Mother Nature is giving you a hint that you need to develop this or that part of yourself. Because that's what women are, they are nature's agents, and if you don't take it personally they will reveal all sorts of weaknesses you never knew you had, and give you wonderful opportunities and motivation to develop yourself.

That's how it was for me - I used to be incredibly socially awkward and uncalibrated at school and even going into university. I had to work on myself a lot, and part of that was to let go of my ego that was attached to my previous identity, and just accept that guys who come across a certain way get a certain kind of result.

And afterward you realize that your old identity wasn't one you really chose for yourself, whereas the identity you have after you've worked on yourself and become your ideal self, is entirely yours.

Yeah if I really think about it, it's not only with girls that I've had awkward things like this happen. Just two days ago my new boss wanted to get out of the building, I had no employee card yet so she told me she would scan it for me to open the door as well. For some reason I thought she meant that we would cross the door together, so I rushed in as she was scanning, almost stepped on her and we barely made it through without an accident. She told me a bit shocked that we go one by one here, and she would have opened it for me afterwards. I told her that I am sorry and did not realise and will not do it again. It seemed fine after that, but no clue what she thinks of me now.

I am not always like that though, I think I get into such modes when I overthink how to make a certain impression, and my brain basically shuts down and either acts too quickly or too slowly. I think I should just be more present every moment, and feel how things are going. If I am obviously sweating and struggling with the heat I should take the coat off myself, it's simple. If I am holding the box in an unbalanced way I can correct it the moment I feel it, it's logical.

In that sense situations like asking me for the swinging video won't bother me, since it's something natural to the situation that I can have fun with, and situations like with the boss will be more smooth as I will clearly ask what I should do when I am not sure, and not jump to conclusions by myself.

 

[Will_V]

I suppose it's not a bad thing in itself, but I know I have to be coming off as more masculine, and someone they would want to have sex with. One thing I am not sure is which way to take that though. I mean whether it's better to go towards some kind of Sean Connery masculine, or some Russell Brand kind of type, or something totally different.

It can be good to have a role model like an actor who's got something of the same personality and some of the same characteristics as you, as a kind of 'vision board' representation of your future self, if that helps you.

I know it sounds very typical to say this, but the best thing you can do to start off with improving your masculine fundamentals is working out. It doesn't matter who you are, if you feel fit and physically capable, you feel a lot better about yourself and you're a lot more willing to assert yourself and set your frame with other people.

I also highly recommend martial arts. When I first started getting laid, I was off in Brazil doing kickboxing, I used to do 2 x 1.5 hour classes a day every day, and walked around at night going to clubs in bad parts of town. Unlike some of my buddies who didn't take half the risks I did, I never got mugged or attacked, because I walked around looking and feeling capable. It helped immensely with my confidence meeting new people and my comfort level entering environments I wasn't used to being in.

The way you feel about yourself (not what you tell yourself, but how you really feel, as a function of the way that the world in general treats you) has a huge impact on the level of baseline respect you get from guys and the baseline attraction you get from women. If you know something is not up to snuff when it should be, people will read it on your face.