How to Develop That Killer Instinct?

[Skippy]

When I think back on my interactions I'm noticing a lot of instances where I just let the girl go and then end up kicking myself for it later. I realized I wasn't embodying that killer instinct and I eject or just do a move that's low odds(taking a weak phone number for example) instead of the tougher move that will at least lead to a better chance of something happening.

Oftentimes it's a scenario that I had already pushed my comfort zone to get into in the first place. So when I get to that point it's something that's subtly unfamiliar or uncommon and I get thrown off. And instead of pushing ahead into the unknown, I tended to be like “cool, nice meeting you.” And just eject.

I’ve been doing a lot of thinking about this issue lately, received some good advice, and brainstormed some strategies. So I wanted to make this thread in case it resonates with anyone else or if anyone wanted to share some thoughts on the matter.

Some examples:​

• Spoiler: Hot Bus Stop Approach

  As soon as I arrived at my approach venue, I noticed this hot girl at the bus stop, I was feeling that first approach of the day anxiety but sidled up next to her anyway and started to dip my toes into the water, opened with something casual like asking when the bus was going to come and then transitioned to the reality paces. She hooked easily and started asking me where I was visiting from. I remember having a boner while I was talking to her. Means even my body knew it was going well. When the bus arrived I clammed up. I knew I needed to keep talking so that it feels natural if I were to sit next to her but I didn’t say anything! She ended up sitting on the inner seat of the two chairs (window seat) which makes me think there was a chance she had given me an opening to join her. But I didn't go for it and instead sat somewhere else. (But then the question is, if I had the guts to sit next to her, would I have had the cajones to then propose a quick coffee while she’s on the bus and while dealing with a time crunch of she-might-get-off-at-any-minute?)
• Spoiler: Train Station Last Call

  I get on the train station and notice this girl with long sexy legs, wearing booty shorts. It was my last night in the city, I had already done enough approaches for the day and I wasn't mentally expecting to approach. But she was so sexy so I had to at least dip my toes and see how it goes. I open her with something about the train schedules and then go into my usual reality pace with bus stops and train stations. It hit her like a truck and she was really receptive. What's more, is that she had a very relaxed and sexual vibe. As we were talking I discovered that she was taking a different train than me and so I only had a minute or two until my train arrived. I was thinking to myself I need to quickly suggest drinks or something. And I was processing the logistics in my head and trying to figure out a smooth, plausibly deniable way to bounce from the train station but my train arrived and I just boarded. An hour later kicking myself for not going for it.
• Spoiler: Street Crosswalk Confusion

  I had opened this girl walking on the street with a cold read and when I expanded upon it she was like “that's soooo true!" I go into discussing where she would travel and for some reason assumed she was going to keep walking straight at the crosswalk and walk on. But suddenly she says " I'm actually turning, left here, not sure which way you're going" She's stopped but in the confusion I just say "oh uh okay I'm going straight. cya" and keep walking straight. But she was so receptive and a part of me wonders if she had stopped because she was thinking we'd stop and talk at the crosswalk.
• Spoiler: Street Crosswalk Confusion ep. 2

  After kicking myself for that. Literally the very next day I had a situation with a tourist who again hooked strongly on the open and was asking me a bunch of questions (not in a dominating convo kind of way). We stop at crosswalk and she thinks I'm going one direction while she's going another direction. And I just say “okay cya" in the abruptness of the lights changing.
• Spoiler: Grocery Store

  Saw this girl walking into a whole foods who was 100% my type. I was feeling much higher anxiety given the venue and the fact that she was my type but somehow managed to open her inside without any hesitation, told her she looked like this celebrity and she was floored. She was letting me lead the conversation but I ran out of stuff to say and she was still not leaving but she was like “wow this made my day" and making no attempt to leave the interaction but also not asking me anything back. So I eventually ejected scratching my head. We crossed paths once as I was going about the rest of my shopping and she gave me this exuberant smile and waved.
• Spoiler: Unusual Approach Scenario

  Hot Mexican girl sitting on the bus, we both locked eyes as I got on and I didn’t think much of it. Sat somewhere else. But then we locked eyes again as I was getting off. And as I’m getting off I’m thinking to myself OKAY that was waay too blatant of an approach invite but I’ve never opened a girl on the bus while she’s sitting down idk what I’d do At least that’s how I backward rationalized it after the opportunity went.
• Spoiler: Nightclubs

  Clamming up in bars and nightclubs after I run out of my initial opener material, even though the girl is receptive to the approach and then just walking off because its awkward. Knowing that it's my last night in town and I should just push for something to happen right now
• Spoiler: Two set at a bookstore

  Opened a two set at the bookstore. Two hot latinas. Told myself “just open and do your RPO, you don’t have to push it further.” Except the RPO seemed to go down well and a version of Skippy 6 months from now would be comfortable moving this interaction further somehow. However, the Skippy of the present had never opened a two-set at a bookstore before and when it goes well and the girls are hot, I feel guilt and then regret for not at least pushing it further.

I could go on and on and on but even this list is too long…

Some common threads between all of these:

• Usually, it’s an unfamiliar situation (not always but usually)
• The girl is hot and receptive (which is why it sticks out in my mind more)
• I was already pushing my boldness by getting into the situation in the first place
• There is a very small window of opportunity to act so I don’t have time to think
• Usually, logically, I know I should be pushing it, but I give up bc I don’t know how to do it ‘smoothly’ or ‘correctly’ rather than getting blowback by doing it unsmoothly

Strategies​

Here are some strategies that I will implement. No idea if it'll work but that's what I got so far...

Spoiler: Hidden to avoid bias

Are You a Girl-Closer or a Wheel Spinner? (This one seemed very on the nose actually)
Why You Eject from Talking to Girls Too Soon (Plus How to Stop) (make the ho say no)

• Don’t stress about it too much. Pay attention to when it happens and as you get enough repetition, eventually this problem will go away.
• Fear setting - Fear warps your thinking and impedes action. This exercise creates emotional leverage for you to act in spite of the fears. I think it’s really useful and can be applied to many scenarios
• Expand Willpower — I’m thinking of ways I can do this. A simple one is to take a cold shower every morning.
• Go out regularly for nightgame, where things are more chaotic so that you’re regularly encountering situations that are unfamiliar. But you can’t be prematurely ejecting in these approaches either.
• Make a catalog of interactions where you were kicking yourself afterward and just flesh out in great detail how you would continue. Then frequently review and visualize these scenarios until you end up with enough scenarios that you can freestyle stuff for unfamiliar situations as well (or you just stop encountering unfamiliar situations)
• Have an exercise of closing every girl you talk to. Maybe challenge myself with “You’re not allowed to leave the interaction unless you hear a no(or 3)” - I want to rule out situations where I’m talking to a girl and having a lukewarm interaction, she has to go somewhere so I’m like lets grab a coffee sometime and exchange numbers. She says “sure” just to be polite and then it fizzles out over text. Then I end up with a bunch of flakey numbers and it fucks with my state for a few days. I’ve definitely had “always go for a number” periods and I don’t think I’ve ever had a situation yet where a girl seemed totally lukewarm in person and she came out on a date. All my dates came from interactions that were at least reasonably good. So I didn’t find those to be helpful. Closing should be more than just going for a number. In fact maybe just ignore numbers entirely and only go for instant dates, which will likely give you No’s to your face

Another tangentially related topic is embodying the "burn it to the ground" mentality when you're on a daygame jaunt for a short time in a totally different city and you know that you could technically be acting soooo much more uninhibited with the approaching and face no consequences (both in terms of number of approaches and how far you take each approach)...but there are still some mental barriers that get in the way...

 

[Destiny]

Fall into that trap sometimes too specially on low momentum, when it starts happening a lot I try to ask myself after a number close if my odds are higher if I stay or leave.

If I feel like ejecting pre-number close tho I always try to force myself to stay unless the girl ejects herself.

Basically poker mentality after number close and "fuck it just try to plow" pre number close. Point is to force myself to stay that extra second that makes me avoid the instinctual ejection, like trying to open your eyes underwater.

 

[Don Giovanni]

When I was going out regularly I assigned myself simple goals following the formula of escalation + time limit. Depending on where I was results wise my goals looked something like this:

- touch/ sex talk gambit to establish sexual frame right after open to 2min in set,
- ask her to move with you after 5-10min of talking to her,
- ask her to change venues after 20min of talking to her,
- invite her home...

I didn't have a time limit on inviting them home yet as I was still inconsistant with previous stages, but you get the point. Good luck!

 

[Kvothe]

For me, it's interesting because I fundamentally know the right timing to open, and then I second guess myself. So I see two different strategies:

1. You don't know the right timing - I think putting time limits, adding rules (such as 3 second rule for an approach, 10 minute rule for kissing after bringing her home) are great ideas. They'll help someone without a refined instinct develop one. The difficulty here is actually doing the opening, and dealing with AA/fear of rejection.
2. You do know the right timing, but you hesitate - I think this one is a bit more difficult, since the key here could have different causes. You may be afraid of failure instead of rejection, or you might be a perfectionist. For me the key has been to throw my pride aside and treat myself as a beginner. The main thing is to get momentum back, so I fell back to the time limit rules until I hit micro-momentum in my outing. Once there, I had enough that I could at least open with killer instinct more frequently. At that point I think it's a matter of keeping the ball rolling and winner effecting until the instinct is present everywhere in your interaction with women. Effectively, you need to stop thinking with your brain, and start thinking with your gut. This will help you attune to her emotions and state, while letting you lead them where you want her to go.

Been thinking on this a lot as well as I get back into daygame, and I think part of it for me is going to be pushing for a lot more insta-dates.

 

[Tr1cky]

1) know, understand, and accept that at times it will be awkward and uncomfortable during the interaction. Stick it out! Blow me or blow me out as they say

2) during the night pick one girl and stick with her NO MATTER WHAT. Either you will take her back home or she will have to get aggressive and tell you to leave her alone. No other option. Do that for 3 months.

 

[Glow]

i would avoid these herculian concepts of killer instinct etc. and do the following side by side:

1) Focus on your sexual drive/sexual intent by feeling into how she turns you on. See what springs from that. This grows over time so allow it to arise and grow within u. Notice how it can overpower your insecurities and give you a confidence. beware it has many sides and can be too much. A core to handle as a seducer. use focus on this to remove or balance out the more insecure feelings if possible. Look what other emotions arise along this focus. See if more bold sides arise with it.
2) handle your insecurities that arise - concerns, uncertainty, anger etc. basically its about feeling them and paying attetnion as you hit field, manage them in whatever ways you find good.
3) build an action habit of sorts, preferably one of mixed confidence and attentiveness to things, details about her situations etc.

This is not easy but the core fuel for seduction and staying in - handling the insecurities.

 

[Mr.SocialAcceptableHarem]

When I think back on my interactions I'm noticing a lot of instances where I just let the girl go and then end up kicking myself for it later. I realized I wasn't embodying that killer instinct and I eject or just do a move that's low odds(taking a weak phone number for example) instead of the tougher move that will at least lead to a better chance of something happening.

Oftentimes it's a scenario that I had already pushed my comfort zone to get into in the first place. So when I get to that point it's something that's subtly unfamiliar or uncommon and I get thrown off. And instead of pushing ahead into the unknown, I tended to be like “cool, nice meeting you.” And just eject.

I’ve been doing a lot of thinking about this issue lately, received some good advice, and brainstormed some strategies. So I wanted to make this thread in case it resonates with anyone else or if anyone wanted to share some thoughts on the matter.

Some examples:​

• Spoiler: Hot Bus Stop Approach

  As soon as I arrived at my approach venue, I noticed this hot girl at the bus stop, I was feeling that first approach of the day anxiety but sidled up next to her anyway and started to dip my toes into the water, opened with something casual like asking when the bus was going to come and then transitioned to the reality paces. She hooked easily and started asking me where I was visiting from. I remember having a boner while I was talking to her. Means even my body knew it was going well. When the bus arrived I clammed up. I knew I needed to keep talking so that it feels natural if I were to sit next to her but I didn’t say anything! She ended up sitting on the inner seat of the two chairs (window seat) which makes me think there was a chance she had given me an opening to join her. But I didn't go for it and instead sat somewhere else. (But then the question is, if I had the guts to sit next to her, would I have had the cajones to then propose a quick coffee while she’s on the bus and while dealing with a time crunch of she-might-get-off-at-any-minute?)
• Spoiler: Train Station Last Call

  I get on the train station and notice this girl with long sexy legs, wearing booty shorts. It was my last night in the city, I had already done enough approaches for the day and I wasn't mentally expecting to approach. But she was so sexy so I had to at least dip my toes and see how it goes. I open her with something about the train schedules and then go into my usual reality pace with bus stops and train stations. It hit her like a truck and she was really receptive. What's more, is that she had a very relaxed and sexual vibe. As we were talking I discovered that she was taking a different train than me and so I only had a minute or two until my train arrived. I was thinking to myself I need to quickly suggest drinks or something. And I was processing the logistics in my head and trying to figure out a smooth, plausibly deniable way to bounce from the train station but my train arrived and I just boarded. An hour later kicking myself for not going for it.
• Spoiler: Street Crosswalk Confusion

  I had opened this girl walking on the street with a cold read and when I expanded upon it she was like “that's soooo true!" I go into discussing where she would travel and for some reason assumed she was going to keep walking straight at the crosswalk and walk on. But suddenly she says " I'm actually turning, left here, not sure which way you're going" She's stopped but in the confusion I just say "oh uh okay I'm going straight. cya" and keep walking straight. But she was so receptive and a part of me wonders if she had stopped because she was thinking we'd stop and talk at the crosswalk.
• Spoiler: Street Crosswalk Confusion ep. 2

  After kicking myself for that. Literally the very next day I had a situation with a tourist who again hooked strongly on the open and was asking me a bunch of questions (not in a dominating convo kind of way). We stop at crosswalk and she thinks I'm going one direction while she's going another direction. And I just say “okay cya" in the abruptness of the lights changing.
• Spoiler: Grocery Store

  Saw this girl walking into a whole foods who was 100% my type. I was feeling much higher anxiety given the venue and the fact that she was my type but somehow managed to open her inside without any hesitation, told her she looked like this celebrity and she was floored. She was letting me lead the conversation but I ran out of stuff to say and she was still not leaving but she was like “wow this made my day" and making no attempt to leave the interaction but also not asking me anything back. So I eventually ejected scratching my head. We crossed paths once as I was going about the rest of my shopping and she gave me this exuberant smile and waved.
• Spoiler: Unusual Approach Scenario

  Hot Mexican girl sitting on the bus, we both locked eyes as I got on and I didn’t think much of it. Sat somewhere else. But then we locked eyes again as I was getting off. And as I’m getting off I’m thinking to myself OKAY that was waay too blatant of an approach invite but I’ve never opened a girl on the bus while she’s sitting down idk what I’d do At least that’s how I backward rationalized it after the opportunity went.
• Spoiler: Nightclubs

  Clamming up in bars and nightclubs after I run out of my initial opener material, even though the girl is receptive to the approach and then just walking off because its awkward. Knowing that it's my last night in town and I should just push for something to happen right now
• Spoiler: Two set at a bookstore

  Opened a two set at the bookstore. Two hot latinas. Told myself “just open and do your RPO, you don’t have to push it further.” Except the RPO seemed to go down well and a version of Skippy 6 months from now would be comfortable moving this interaction further somehow. However, the Skippy of the present had never opened a two-set at a bookstore before and when it goes well and the girls are hot, I feel guilt and then regret for not at least pushing it further.

I could go on and on and on but even this list is too long…

Some common threads between all of these:

• Usually, it’s an unfamiliar situation (not always but usually)
• The girl is hot and receptive (which is why it sticks out in my mind more)
• I was already pushing my boldness by getting into the situation in the first place
• There is a very small window of opportunity to act so I don’t have time to think
• Usually, logically, I know I should be pushing it, but I give up bc I don’t know how to do it ‘smoothly’ or ‘correctly’ rather than getting blowback by doing it unsmoothly

Strategies​

Here are some strategies that I will implement. No idea if it'll work but that's what I got so far...

Spoiler: Hidden to avoid bias

Are You a Girl-Closer or a Wheel Spinner? (This one seemed very on the nose actually)
Why You Eject from Talking to Girls Too Soon (Plus How to Stop) (make the ho say no)

• Don’t stress about it too much. Pay attention to when it happens and as you get enough repetition, eventually this problem will go away.
• Fear setting - Fear warps your thinking and impedes action. This exercise creates emotional leverage for you to act in spite of the fears. I think it’s really useful and can be applied to many scenarios
• Expand Willpower — I’m thinking of ways I can do this. A simple one is to take a cold shower every morning.
• Go out regularly for nightgame, where things are more chaotic so that you’re regularly encountering situations that are unfamiliar. But you can’t be prematurely ejecting in these approaches either.
• Make a catalog of interactions where you were kicking yourself afterward and just flesh out in great detail how you would continue. Then frequently review and visualize these scenarios until you end up with enough scenarios that you can freestyle stuff for unfamiliar situations as well (or you just stop encountering unfamiliar situations)
• Have an exercise of closing every girl you talk to. Maybe challenge myself with “You’re not allowed to leave the interaction unless you hear a no(or 3)” - I want to rule out situations where I’m talking to a girl and having a lukewarm interaction, she has to go somewhere so I’m like lets grab a coffee sometime and exchange numbers. She says “sure” just to be polite and then it fizzles out over text. Then I end up with a bunch of flakey numbers and it fucks with my state for a few days. I’ve definitely had “always go for a number” periods and I don’t think I’ve ever had a situation yet where a girl seemed totally lukewarm in person and she came out on a date. All my dates came from interactions that were at least reasonably good. So I didn’t find those to be helpful. Closing should be more than just going for a number. In fact maybe just ignore numbers entirely and only go for instant dates, which will likely give you No’s to your face

Another tangentially related topic is embodying the "burn it to the ground" mentality when you're on a daygame jaunt for a short time in a totally different city and you know that you could technically be acting soooo much more uninhibited with the approaching and face no consequences (both in terms of number of approaches and how far you take each approach)...but there are still some mental barriers that get in the way...

If your horny enough, you won't eject.

Usually if a girl has a boyfriend, I back off. But if she is hot enough, I keep going.

This is an example of how being horny can you help you persist.

Maybe you have some negative beliefs that are getting in the way of your natural instinct.

I remember a few months back there were some times where I ejected too soon, I kicked myself so hard after that that now I rarely eject if a girl is hot. Because I hate the feeling of what could have been, it's like a cold approach blue ball.

As long as you hate that feeling more than you are afraid of "being a creep", you will not eject.

Blow me or blow me out

This is golden, yes, that is how I like to do things.

 

[Skippy]

Thanks for all your comments and suggestions guys!

Basically poker mentality after number close and "fuck it just try to plow" pre number close. Point is to force myself to stay that extra second that makes me avoid the instinctual ejection, like trying to open your eyes underwater.

That's something I'm noticing too for the cases where I eject due to a "fight or flight" response. Becoming more aware of that to the point where you can identify it in the moment and persist onwards seems to be something seriously worth developing.

Because I hate the feeling of what could have been, it's like a cold approach blue ball.

As long as you hate that feeling more than you are afraid of "being a creep", you will not eject.

Man...I felt this recently. Got a harsh rejection that I was ruminating over all day on Friday. Pretty much the rudest rejection I've ever gotten in my life. Basically, I was following my new mantra of minimizing regret, going for it, and removing pressure from myself to be super smooth if I don't know what to do.

After stewing over it for a bit and how things turned out, I realized that as much as it sucked, it would've felt much worse knowing that I passed up on that opportunity. Because passing up on an opportunity speaks to your identity as a man in a negative way. But getting a rejection is caused by a million possible reasons. Some of which are her own issues to work through.

Effectively, you need to stop thinking with your brain, and start thinking with your gut. This will help you attune to her emotions and state, while letting you lead them where you want her to go.

1) Focus on your sexual drive/sexual intent by feeling into how she turns you on. See what springs from that. This grows over time so allow it to arise and grow within u. Notice how it can overpower your insecurities and give you a confidence. beware it has many sides and can be too much. A core to handle as a seducer. use focus on this to remove or balance out the more insecure feelings if possible. Look what other emotions arise along this focus. See if more bold sides arise with it.

These are good points, I tend to forget about my sexual desire or instincts once I'm in set and I'm busy thinking about how to manage the conversation. So I will lean into the feelings more. It's probably more enjoyable that way if you can give yourself permission to fail.