How to explain rough career patches to ladies

[Marty]

Hey gents,

This is an issue I face with the somewhat more high-flying girls I take on dates, who often screen very hard for career success. I met a stunning 33-year-old advertising Vice President today (who could easily have passed for 23) and got her number, so it's on my mind...

Essentially I had a pretty much textbook international career path from about 1998 until 2011, when I took it into my head that I wanted to move to the United States. So I did so by joining a global consultancy firm that anyone who's spent any significant time in the business world will have heard of... basically one of the Big Three.

Well, that was a Big Mistake and marked the end of my supposedly stellar career path. What they had lined up for me was at total variance with previously outlined expectations, and it made me feel like I wasn't supposed to be there. So after less than 6 months, I left.

Since then I've had 2 further jobs in the US; the current one is with a prestigious organization and it has a fancy title and everything, but it doesn't pay well, as it's in the Arts.

I don't like talking about myself on dates (or any other social occasion, frankly) but it does tend to come up, especially since girls want to know where in the world I've lived and why I ended up in my current improbable location. When pressed on the consultancy role, I never seem to answer right.

Among the copious information in the articles on the Girls Chase main site, there's very little on this area; but frankly, I don't trust any other source of information where women are concerned.

So what would folks here recommend I say when this arises in conversation?

Thank you!

-Marty

 

[Mr.Rob]

Be like Drexel Scott and tell them you're a dildo model with the most solid serious frame ever, don't bat an eyelash .

I believe Alibaba is a top notch dildo co. tell them you work for them.

 

[PinotNoir]

Since then I've had 2 further jobs in the US; the current one is with a prestigious organization and it has a fancy title and everything, but it doesn't pay well, as it's in the Arts.

I actually think that sounds like a fantastic job to present to women. A job in the Arts is always intriguing. It's much better than saying, "I work in a cubicle on some tech product." Even if you're in a cubicle, it's a company in the Arts. That's interesting and unique.

Also, you can be working on something on the side and tell that to women. It will display that you already have a job (i.e., capable of achieving your goals and not lazy) and are pursuing something more adventurous and ambitious. "Well, I work in the Arts, but I'm also working on writing the great American novel.... lots of blood and romance and maybe a werewolf or two."

I think Rob's suggestion is good for making it into something fun initially. I can see reserved girls not liking the dildo answer though. (You kind of have to pre-heat the oven first.) But, you can say something like, "Well, I'm a spy for Russia, and I'm doing research on American women." And then after you two laugh or she plays a long for a bit, you can either say what you really do or ask her what she does without ever answering.

I think a Vice President will be used to men trying to display value, thinking that's what they need to do to gain her respect. But, she doesn't want that or need that; she has money and comfort. What she values is a man that's a man. He's confident in what he does and is not shy about admitting it. He could work as an auto-mechanic and just display his passion about it and his I-dont-care-what-other-people-think attitude about it. As a Vice President, she's probably also used to guys trying to compete with her, so it probably turns her off. Just treat her as a lady and ignore the title.

 

[Casanovelis]

Since then I've had 2 further jobs in the US; the current one is with a prestigious organization and it has a fancy title and everything, but it doesn't pay well, as it's in the Arts.

I actually think that sounds like a fantastic job to present to women. A job in the Arts is always intriguing. It's much better than saying, "I work in a cubicle on some tech product." Even if you're in a cubicle, it's a company in the Arts. That's interesting and unique.

Also, you can be working on something on the side and tell that to women. It will display that you already have a job (i.e., capable of achieving your goals and not lazy) and are pursuing something more adventurous and ambitious. "Well, I work in the Arts, but I'm also working on writing the great American novel.... lots of blood and romance and maybe a werewolf or two."

I think Rob's suggestion is good for making it into something fun initially. I can see reserved girls not liking the dildo answer though. (You kind of have to pre-heat the oven first.) But, you can say something like, "Well, I'm a spy for Russia, and I'm doing research on American women." And then after you two laugh or she plays a long for a bit, you can either say what you really do or ask her what she does without ever answering.

I think a Vice President will be used to men trying to display value, thinking that's what they need to do to gain her respect. But, she doesn't want that or need that; she has money and comfort. What she values is a man that's a man. He's confident in what he does and is not shy about admitting it. He could work as an auto-mechanic and just display his passion about it and his I-dont-care-what-other-people-think attitude about it. As a Vice President, she's probably also used to guys trying to compete with her, so it probably turns her off. Just treat her as a lady and ignore the title.

*Sings some Billy Joel* "Uptown girl, she's been living in her uptown world!"

 

[Marty]

I think a Vice President will be used to men trying to display value, thinking that's what they need to do to gain her respect. But, she doesn't want that or need that; she has money and comfort. What she values is a man that's a man. He's confident in what he does and is not shy about admitting it. He could work as an auto-mechanic and just display his passion about it and his I-dont-care-what-other-people-think attitude about it. As a Vice President, she's probably also used to guys trying to compete with her, so it probably turns her off. Just treat her as a lady and ignore the title.

Solid, thoughtful, encouraging, actionable, sound advice. Thank you, Pinot.

Even if you're in a cubicle, it's a company in the Arts.

I'm not in a cubicle, thank heaven. I actually have an office in a rather swish location in my city's business district—possibly the best perk of the job. Haven't lured any women here after hours yet, though

I think Rob's suggestion is good for making it into something fun initially.

I think Rob was kidding, Pinot. There's no way I'd say something like that to any of the girls I date with.

But if the consulting role comes up in conversation (and it probably will), how do suggest I answer? I'd maybe go with something like: "Actually, I enjoyed it and learned a lot, but to my surprise it was a bit of a conformist atmosphere. I'm not really someone who follows the rules, so I went off in search of other adventures." Do you think that might work?

 

[trashKENNUT]

Marty,

I think two ways i can think of. Correct me.

1)You want to make this as "vulnerable". You made a career mistake, and Women do this a lot too. A lot of women do different careers after listening from friends and parents.

2)Make it as no big deal. Just keep things short. Give the assumption that you don't take your career seriously, Disqualify yourself as boyfriend material.

I have done number 1, Actually women relate to me better. For number 2, i don't have enough real life experience to note if this works better as well.

Anyway, Chase advice to me on high quality girls. Hope this helps

Re: Meeting Quality Women via Friends or ?
Postby Chase » Fri May 17, 2013 1:33 am

Zac-

ZacAdam wrote:
Any information on dating quality women who have prestige, money, her own place? I can't be a model though, at least my first experience was terrible. and the photographer didn't help me out.


Having a credential or two that you can throw out there off the cuff helps lower defenses a bit. Being able to say "I worked for [prestigious company]" or "I went to [prestigious school]" takes her off guard. You don't want to do TOO much of that, though, or else you either look like a showboat, or such an amazing catch she'll want to be sure to take things slow.

Having something exotic or adventurous about yourself helps a lot. If you're a writer / actor / musician, it doesn't matter if you're stone broke with no mainstream credentials, you can still land girls like this for a fling at least.

I've known several guys who had no education higher than high school and had never held a real job who routinely dated women who were attractive, intelligent, and financially successful with prestigious careers (finance, law, etc.) or athletic/other accomplishments (Olympics, beauty pageants, etc.). One of these guys was very smooth and very good looking (but kind of dumb... he was these smart women's 'guilty pleasure'), and the other guy was average looking but had trained himself to be quite charismatic and was naturally pretty energetic.

If you want an easy way of thinking about it, think about it like this: have at least ONE thing you excel at fairly hard (writing, music, sports, career, charisma, looks, etc.). Surround that with some other stuff you're reasonably excellent in. Then, even ambitious, driven, accomplished women with killer looks will find you intriguing.

Also - have reams of ambition and be able to show it. Have way more ambition than her, and be inspiring about it. Ambitious women (and all very beautiful / very successful women are ambitious) want men MORE ambitious than they are, most of the time (occasionally the very intelligent women like this want smart dweebs for relationships though... they feel more secure with these guys, and relate to them better).

Meet these girls via day game. Social circle can work too, but it's slow and hit-or-miss... you need the right circles for what you're looking for.

Chase

Zac

 

[PinotNoir]

But if the consulting role comes up in conversation (and it probably will), how do suggest I answer? I'd maybe go with something like: "Actually, I enjoyed it and learned a lot, but to my surprise it was a bit of a conformist atmosphere. I'm not really someone who follows the rules, so I went off in search of other adventures." Do you think that might work?

Sounds perfect to me. It shows a lot of good qualities about you: hate dull routine, rebellious, adventerous.

I hate to add too much because then it sounds too wordy, but you could add in 2 more lines as well.

"Actually, I enjoyed it and learned a lot, but to my surprise it was a bit of a conformist atmosphere. I'm not really someone who follows the rules, so I went off in search of other adventures. I like to keep my options open; stay free. You ever feel like that in life with your career or something else?"

First line is to put you more in the lover role and not the boyfriend role with maybe a hint of a Byronic guy that needs fixing. Last line is to deep dive her and switch the conversation back on her and make you relate-able and maybe philosophical.

Your answer sounds perfect though, and it just depends on how the conversation is going. People are usually focused on their lives (it's normal and natural), so she's probably thinking more about her answers, about her emotions, about how you make her feel (happy? horny? desired?), and about the connection between you two (do we have the same views?) than about where you worked in the past.

 

[Marty]

Zac:

Thanks for your input. An interesting response by Chase there which is strangely applicable to my own situation.

he was these smart women's 'guilty pleasure'

That's it! I've decided: this is the role I want in my next life

I'm not really someone who follows the rules, so I went off in search of other adventures. I like to keep my options open; stay free. You ever feel like that in life with your career or something else?

Pinot, that is ultimately cool. Great suggestion, thank you

-Marty

 

[Nuncle]

Seems like the only blip in your career is the 6 months with the Big 3 fellas. I don't see what's wrong with saying it went wrong. Jobs do some time. These high fliers will have had it happen to them. In fact it may well make you seem like a man of the world, as well as one who knows when to walk away.

My latest crush was a real high-flier career woman, and I was temping under her after a long period of unemployment and I was totally open and unashamed about my career history and she still really liked me and was impressed by me. Then I blew it by not moving fast enough - the career stuff was irrelevant!

 

[DesiBro]

I think the real issue here isn't the career blip but rather the fact that you feel the need to explain it away.

Being confident enough in yourself an your judgement to genuinely take pride in making the decisions you did is probably a better idea that trying to make excuses. There fact that you managed to land a job like that in the first place is a huge accomplishment in and of itself.

 

[Estate]

I've found in the city too that some women will qualify you hard on your education and how high you are in your company.

Some girls themselves are high up and won't accept anything less... more though, tend to "hype" their own positions and screen for guys they deem to be on their level (which is actually much higher than they are themselves).
To be honest, I've taken up screening them first. The reason being, if these women are only looking for money and status, you know you're in for a hard time with them. Some are worth it if you pump your own value and you really want them but overall they are a nightmare to date... they'll constantly be looking for a guy with the bigger value, etc...
Not all women are like this... it's just something I come across from time to time and even though I do well in my own career, if that's all a women is focused on about me, it doesn't impress me.

You can take a few routes though:
- Screen them FIRST. Often women in the city pump their own value. I posted a story a few weeks ago about a women I met who turned out to work at the same company as me in aother location. She had convinced me on first meeting, when I didn't know where she worked that she was much higher in her company than I probably was. On our first meeting she screened me hard trying to put herself above me or seeing if I was measuring up but as I dug deeper, it turned out she was an assistant. She basically got coffee for one of the VP's. Not that ALL women are night as high as they say but if you screen them first you can usually take them down a peg by not being overly impressed with what they are telling you... they are used to all the WOW! You career girl you!.
The downside is, you could call this a form of negging, basicially trying to bring her down a peg and personally I'm not really into negging. If she is just all about status, it's a turn off for me so I lose interest rather than try to chase her down.

- Pump your own value like they do. I've dated a few girls who it turned out where not currently employed or lived at home or whatever. But they owned it. You don't want to come across like you need to explain yourself or justify something. Basically whatever your situtation in life, just own it. Make sure to convey that it's what YOU wanted at that point in your life and that you have a clear and certain path for your future. Then it's never really a big deal. It only feels like a big deal when you make it into one yourself by trying to explain how you were hard done by, or whatever.

 

[Marty]

Thanks Estate, I think that's a very good idea actually. Plus I'm in the process of interviews with several much more promising employers, so hopefully I can put myself back on track at long last.

I'm quite surprised at what you say that girls sometimes "hype" their positions as it goes against the stereotype of the typical female trying to "dumb herself down" in an effort to appear more attractive to men (which I've seen a lot—you have to dig hard sometimes to get her to reveal the intelligence underneath); I'll bear it in mind though. Definitely a good idea to ask searching, probing questions about what she can really achieve, as it encourages her to qualify herself and thus creates investment. Thank you!

If she is just all about status, it's a turn off for me

Are you serious about this? I think I've read this before from you, as well as others—status is a "turn-off", resistance is a "turn-off", uninteresting conversation is a "turn-off", etc. If you're talking about a sexual turn-off, for me none of the above would apply; the only true turn-off is if a woman is physically repulsive, overweight beyond what her figure will tolerate, or has "aged out" of her natural sex-appeal lifetime (the latter can vary enormously; some women are still highly physically alluring at 50 while others are "past it" by 26).

Just interested to know, as it contrasts so deeply with my own inclinations.

-Marty

 

[Estate]

I guess it depends on what you're looking for Marty or what you are attracted to beyond looks...

On girls pumping their own value. I have to admit, my hometown is smaller, people are pretty straight shooting since people tend to call them out on sh*t. So people in general don't really pump their own tires because they don't like hearing others doing it. It's a personality turn-off. Even with guys, people who brag too much just don't do much for me. I'm attracted to people who have interesting lives and have a lot going for them but there's a difference for me between meetings someone and thinking they are a cool person only to learn later how successful or interesting their life is, and someone who just comes up and is all "Hey! Look, what I did, look what I have.. etc.."

I live in Boston now and it's a city full of big Tech business's, startups trying to make it big, and "top" colleges. So people pumping their own tires goes part and parcel with living around here. I find it very attractive to hear a woman is successful, but I don't particularly like what I see a lot around here. Like the girl I mentioned... it turned out that I was her superior by quite a long way, but upon meeting her I was almost nervous about our date as I thought I was way out of my dept with her... until I learned what she REALLY did. I wouldn't mind her doing what she did if she just said it like it is... but I certainly wouldn't go around my workplace, talking down my own superiors and convincing people I am above my actual station.

Same goes for the college kids around here. I attended a Harvard Ball a few months ago... It was funny how women who I initially got talking to and was really having a good time with, suddenly turned cold when I said I was not actually a Harvard grad. It's all about status with them. Now, I was able to plow ahead and break them down again, something I wouldn't have been able to do, 2/3 years ago... but their attitude/personality turned me off at how much of a defense they put up upon hearing I was not a college grad. Now don't get me wrong, there's no doubt Harvard is a top university, but just having the college's name on your degree doesn't put you above anyone else in education or intelligence in my opinion. I was schooled in Europe and got a top grad in one of the Top 4 Irish universities... a high rank in Europe but here, people don't know it and see it as some sort of community college... meanwhile... unless they were topping classes themselves, a Harvard degree doesn't make them more intelligent than me... I work with some folks who have much more experience than me in the job but probably have a passing grade or a second from one of these colleges and I just find their range of skills very limited.... they get by on the name of the university on the degree rather than the actual grade.

Now, I know that all sounds very negative. But for me, it's not about whether someone is educated or not, or well paid or not. I really don't care... it's about personalities... I just don't particularly like people pumping their own value above what they really are. We are all about improving who we are on this board. I feel I'd rather be honest about my current station in life, while always actively improving, than to stay were I am and just try to convince people I'm something else.

So on Status....
I don't find a women with status a turn-off... I find someone pumping their value a turn-off... actual status is very attractive in fact. What I mean though is that women will pump their own value in order to see how you measure up. I just find that these womens priorities in dating are not the same as my own. They are looking for me with money, status, connections, all superficial things. Now, if your only goal is to sleep with these women and split... it's not really an issue. But if you're looking for a woman like this to bring into your life, it will always be an uphill battle... they are always looking for brighter, shinier things.

Resistance... again, you have to weight up the situation. How much are you ACTUALLY willing to "wait" to sleep with this woman. I've had women I quite liked go on dates with me. They've had a way of turning a coffee date into other, much more expensive nights before it was all said and done. At the same time, they lacked a lot for me... If a woman is putting HERSELF on a pedastil, by saying you need to offer her many expensive dates to ever sleep with her, while she puts up HARD resistance, then she needs to be offering SOMETHING of quality that keeps a guy around if he is not getting closer to sex. These women often feel entitled. I have a close female friend who I like as a person, as a friend but I could never date her. She makes guys wait and wait and wait... but will only accept dates where guys are spending $150+ per night... after a few dates, the guys disappear... she can't understand it. I can see why... but I wouldn't open that can of worm s with a friend... basically, her attitude to dating is "I'm her, now impress me!" while she shuts guys down from getting more physical with her... all the while not actually giving much back to them. For her, it's all about what the GUY will buy for her, endure for her, how hard he will try and try and try while she offers very little in return... and she wonders why guys fade. To me it's pretty obvious.

It all comes down to having abundance:
If you have 5 girls you are actively in contact with at the same time... maybe 2 are being really awesome on dates, laughing, joking, contributing to fun conversation, it's just overall a good time.
The other two are "keeping their options open" but still being fairly fun, yet not really opening themselves up.
The last woman is playing the game, she's giving away nothing, she's making you chase, she knows "the rules".

Now, all other things aside, lets presume they are all attractive woman... does the "chase" make you like the last girl more? Well... if she was my only contact, then yes, probably...
But if she is being coy and keeping me waiting to make hard plans for Thursday night, when I ask... and I have 4 other women that I KNOW will accept a night out with me... then I no longer find the chase anything but irritating, I just feel like she thinks she has me where she wants me, all the while, I'm having the time of my life in bed with another girl who isn't playing so hard.