How to get girls unstuck from a dead-end thought pattern

[Dough]

Recently I've decided to start deep diving pretty much everyone. I want to know their worldviews to have a better understanding of how people around me think. I've found that I'm really good at it and people frequently tell me some pretty wild stuff. Turns out their filters kinda turn off if you can make them feel like you've been on the same team before even having met eachother. Today I mentioned to a girl that I was talking to her because she made it easy for me to approach her, and then she spontaneously said something like "oh I'm happy to hear that, I learned how to do that from an anti-feminist on tiktok". Like, what? We only met 15 minutes ago and you actually just said that to me?

But I am having this issue: Sometimes a girl is preoccupied with something that's been persistently bugging her. Maybe she's having trouble finding a job and she's stressed out by this. She keeps going back to thinking about this dead-end topic, blocking the conversation from progressing and blocking herself from hooking.
Usually this takes the form of me trying to start a thread, she gets a bit involved, but then remembers the original stressor during a transition and goes back to thinking about it. Then the conversation stalls cuz she just ruined the transition with a topic that I can't do anything with. How do I get her to "break out" of a thought pattern like this? It seems like I need an extra powerful pattern interrupt? Or an extra powerful hook?

Also related to that problem, sometimes a group is stuck. Such as multiple people in the group are having trouble finding a job, so all they want to do is talk about that despite the topic having zero potential to go anywhere or be useful. Is there anything I can even do in that situation, or do I just have to accept that the group is out of my control and I need to isolate someone if I want to talk to them?

 

[Lover]

But I am having this issue: Sometimes a girl is preoccupied with something that's been persistently bugging her. Maybe she's having trouble finding a job and she's stressed out by this. She keeps going back to thinking about this dead-end topic, blocking the conversation from progressing and blocking herself from hooking.
Usually this takes the form of me trying to start a thread, she gets a bit involved, but then remembers the original stressor during a transition and goes back to thinking about it. Then the conversation stalls cuz she just ruined the transition with a topic that I can't do anything with. How do I get her to "break out" of a thought pattern like this? It seems like I need an extra powerful pattern interrupt? Or an extra powerful hook?

Put less effort in the conversation if she circles back. Use less words and show non-verbal signs of disinterest (look away, look bored, turn your body a bit etc). At some point she should get it that you're losing interest in the whole conversation and change the topic herself

And if she doesn't... then you figure out if you want to stay or leave

 

[West_Indian_Archie]

Recently I've decided to start deep diving pretty much everyone. I want to know their worldviews to have a better understanding of how people around me think. I've found that I'm really good at it and people frequently tell me some pretty wild stuff. Turns out their filters kinda turn off if you can make them feel like you've been on the same team before even having met eachother. Today I mentioned to a girl that I was talking to her because she made it easy for me to approach her, and then she spontaneously said something like "oh I'm happy to hear that, I learned how to do that from an anti-feminist on tiktok". Like, what? We only met 15 minutes ago and you actually just said that to me?

But I am having this issue: Sometimes a girl is preoccupied with something that's been persistently bugging her. Maybe she's having trouble finding a job and she's stressed out by this. She keeps going back to thinking about this dead-end topic, blocking the conversation from progressing and blocking herself from hooking.
Usually this takes the form of me trying to start a thread, she gets a bit involved, but then remembers the original stressor during a transition and goes back to thinking about it. Then the conversation stalls cuz she just ruined the transition with a topic that I can't do anything with. How do I get her to "break out" of a thought pattern like this? It seems like I need an extra powerful pattern interrupt? Or an extra powerful hook?

Also related to that problem, sometimes a group is stuck. Such as multiple people in the group are having trouble finding a job, so all they want to do is talk about that despite the topic having zero potential to go anywhere or be useful. Is there anything I can even do in that situation, or do I just have to accept that the group is out of my control and I need to isolate someone if I want to talk to them?

Much respect young blood for going down the deep diving path, but from an OG perspective - what you're doing is providing WAY TOO MUCH comfort before smashing the broad.

I'm gonna lean more into a GAME perspective, and less into a seduction/pick up perspective with this....

Females will leech every bit of value from you - and because she's essentially getting what she wants without an equivalent exchange* - she has the frame, and you're dancing to her tune. Both of you are probably unaware of the frame itself, but society has socialized you in such a way that a man is supposed to solve a woman's problem - even if it was unsolvable. The dichotomy is that men think that this helps them, but society and women do not.

*Full Metal Alchemist reference

You should not be asking us to solve her "in the moment" issue in order for you to bend her over the arm of sofa in your flat.

This might offend you, it might offend some readers, but the point of pick up, is putting your D into her V and her wanting more and more of your D.

It doesn't matter if she wants your D for pleasure, for good offspring, or to get some sort of value out of her - the point is to put HER in YOUR service, not the other way around. Now I'm not saying you need the broad to start an only fans and send you 100% of the proceeds - but the proper dynamic, imo, is one in which she serves you.

Because of your skill and ability to dee dive, now you have this issue of trying to "heal the broad' before you serve her some dick (or better yet, put her in sexual service to you).

Even if you could fix her, get her the job, get her the scholarship, kill off her sexual molester, decapitate the girls at her job that are sabotaging her - she's not going to give you SEX for doing her a kindness.

It's the opposite actually.

To bring it back to the Mystery Method, you've given her too much comfort, and now you're essentially in a quasi friend zone - aka she's using you. Even though she's not doing it intentionally, this is just her behavior - to extend her network and to use her network.

You need to get away from the idea that you need to fix broads, to instead telling her, that her salvation is in your power, but she first has to sexually submit to you.

I do not know if this is doctrine, but I can tell you, from having lost many a sure bang because I Dr. Phil'd a broad - is that be it pickup or running real game - YOU'RE NOT HERE TO SOLVE HER DAMN PROBLEMS. She's here to solve your very specific hard dick/nuts full of cum problem.

Until you change your frame of reference, these broads are going to use you.

 

[Dough]

Until you change your frame of reference, these broads are going to use you.

Tbh the priority isn't sex. I know that's weird since I'm on a seduction forum, but for me the real opportunity is to develop my social skills. Seduction is genuinely the only source of verifiably effective and actionable advice for improving social skill and becoming a more likeable and in-control person that I've encountered in my life. I think it's extra effective because women don't think how I do and it forces me to become accustomed to something entirely foreign, making interacting with men feel simple in comparison.

In a sense, I've been the one using people - they have a deep conversation with me and start chasing because they feel that we bonded or whatever. But then I don't actively invest into continued interaction with them because I got what I wanted: An opportunity to expand my worldview and to improve my social skill, and I've already moved on to looking for the next person to talk with.

So I couldn't care less about solving peoples' problems. My goal is more to get their brain to shut the fuck up about their problems so I don't have to hear about it and I can get them to talk about what I want in service of my own goal. Just in the past two weeks I've had three girls who repeatedly took initiative reaching out to me and they eventually got tired of always being the one texting first. I decided they weren't wife material so I wasn't interested in them.

Now that being said, I appreciate that you shared the perspective of an OG

The frame that a girl will become happy after she sexually submits to you is very powerful and I'm happy that you worded it so well.
You also make a good point that deep diving can actively get in the way of shoving your dick into some tits. I need to figure out how to synthesize the whole "I want her to inspire me to put effort into gaming her" part with the "talking too much about her worldview gets in the way of gaming her" part. I feel like the solution is probably just having great calibration?

 

[Bill]

Pattern interrupt or scramble RAS

 

[orkie123]

Tbh the priority isn't sex. I know that's weird since I'm on a seduction forum, but for me the real opportunity is to develop my social skills. Seduction is genuinely the only source of verifiably effective and actionable advice for improving social skill and becoming a more likeable and in-control person that I've encountered in my life. I think it's extra effective because women don't think how I do and it forces me to become accustomed to something entirely foreign, making interacting with men feel simple in comparison.

In a sense, I've been the one using people - they have a deep conversation with me and start chasing because they feel that we bonded or whatever. But then I don't actively invest into continued interaction with them because I got what I wanted: An opportunity to expand my worldview and to improve my social skill, and I've already moved on to looking for the next person to talk with.

So I couldn't care less about solving peoples' problems. My goal is more to get their brain to shut the fuck up about their problems so I don't have to hear about it and I can get them to talk about what I want in service of my own goal. Just in the past two weeks I've had three girls who repeatedly took initiative reaching out to me and they eventually got tired of always being the one texting first. I decided they weren't wife material so I wasn't interested in them.

Now that being said, I appreciate that you shared the perspective of an OG

The frame that a girl will become happy after she sexually submits to you is very powerful and I'm happy that you worded it so well.
You also make a good point that deep diving can actively get in the way of shoving your dick into some tits. I need to figure out how to synthesize the whole "I want her to inspire me to put effort into gaming her" part with the "talking too much about her worldview gets in the way of gaming her" part. I feel like the solution is probably just having great calibration?

I deep dive a lot for a similar reason - I like getting to know people's deep passions and their wild stories. Sometimes it does lead to their lifetime problems but that's just part of deep diving. If people think you are a good listener, they will use that.

For me, the way I use deep diving is to keep myself interested in the conversation. Problems and life issues become boring because 99.9% of people are not looking for advice, but just to rant to someone.

What I do is ask things that are more fun -

"If money wasnt an issue, how would you imagine your life right now?"

Whatever she replies, go further into it, tease her about it etc.

If she brings back the pity story, bring her back to the dream reality. Use some horoscope / psychology wording. "Today is a quarter moon and you are a gemini, means that you can't stress over problems. You've been doing it for too long which is what has been keeping you stuck. Instead you need to focus more on the present. Take pleasure in life. Take a risk. Then read her hand and make up some story about how she will meet an amazing guy soon and describe yourself.

If you have fun with it, she will too. Then subtle hints of pleasure/adventureness/being in the moment/taking risks help with seduction too if you decide to go for it

 

[Will_V]

Recently I've decided to start deep diving pretty much everyone. I want to know their worldviews to have a better understanding of how people around me think. I've found that I'm really good at it and people frequently tell me some pretty wild stuff. Turns out their filters kinda turn off if you can make them feel like you've been on the same team before even having met eachother. Today I mentioned to a girl that I was talking to her because she made it easy for me to approach her, and then she spontaneously said something like "oh I'm happy to hear that, I learned how to do that from an anti-feminist on tiktok". Like, what? We only met 15 minutes ago and you actually just said that to me?

But I am having this issue: Sometimes a girl is preoccupied with something that's been persistently bugging her. Maybe she's having trouble finding a job and she's stressed out by this. She keeps going back to thinking about this dead-end topic, blocking the conversation from progressing and blocking herself from hooking.
Usually this takes the form of me trying to start a thread, she gets a bit involved, but then remembers the original stressor during a transition and goes back to thinking about it. Then the conversation stalls cuz she just ruined the transition with a topic that I can't do anything with. How do I get her to "break out" of a thought pattern like this? It seems like I need an extra powerful pattern interrupt? Or an extra powerful hook?

Show disinterest - look away/around, turn your body away, rub your nose etc .. she'll notice and slow down a bit, and then you turn back and interrupt with a different, more positive thread.

You could soften it with a small validation before changing topics.

Her: ".. can't find a job etc etc"
You: "Yeah it's hard to find a job in this climate .. hey did I tell you about XYZ .. "

Cutting girls off or putting them on the right track is not an unusual thing to have to do, they don't tend to mind as long as you do it calmly and with a touch of validation.

 

[Chase]

@Dough,

Part of what makes deep diving powerful as a seduction tool is to use what people reveal to you to screen them.

You do not have to relate to everything someone says to you just to deep dive. Especially if she is bringing up problems or negative things you don't want to talk about, you can screen her or show disapproval on them to bring her more in line.

For example:

YOU: blah blah blah [something totally unrelated to jobs]​

HER: I know! ... sigh this JOB, though! GAH!​

YOU: Yeah, a lot of people work dead-end jobs they hate. Does seem like it would suck to be one of those people.​

HER: I mean, it's not dead-end. It's just aggravating!​

YOU: Yeah, I get it. So anyway [thread-cut]​

She brings it back to the job topic, and you screen her as "one of those people working dead-end jobs they hate."

The implication here is that you are NOT one of those people, which implies you are experiencing dissimilarity with her thanks to her venting/complaining.

Because she brought the topic up, then vented to you about it, and because you framed her venting as her displaying lower value, you trigger her to feel self-conscious that she is the one creating dissimilarity between the two of you (thus, harming the connection) by all this venting about low value stuff (such as being trapped in a job she hates).

What you will usually see when you do this is a face-saving measure (like the girl here trying to 'clarify' about her job and raise her value back up a little more again), and then the girl promptly drops the topic or starts showing LOADS more interest in you ("So, what do YOU do? Something with a lot of freedom and independence? I so wish I could be like that!").

Chase

 

[Lover]

@Dough,

Part of what makes deep diving powerful as a seduction tool is to use what people reveal to you to screen them.

You do not have to relate to everything someone says to you just to deep dive. Especially if she is bringing up problems or negative things you don't want to talk about, you can screen her or show disapproval on them to bring her more in line.

For example:

YOU: blah blah blah [something totally unrelated to jobs]​

HER: I know! ... sigh this JOB, though! GAH!​

YOU: Yeah, a lot of people work dead-end jobs they hate. Does seem like it would suck to be one of those people.​

HER: I mean, it's not dead-end. It's just aggravating!​

YOU: Yeah, I get it. So anyway [thread-cut]​

She brings it back to the job topic, and you screen her as "one of those people working dead-end jobs they hate."

The implication here is that you are NOT one of those people, which implies you are experiencing dissimilarity with her thanks to her venting/complaining.

Because she brought the topic up, then vented to you about it, and because you framed her venting as her displaying lower value, you trigger her to feel self-conscious that she is the one creating dissimilarity between the two of you (thus, harming the connection) by all this venting about low value stuff (such as being trapped in a job she hates).

What you will usually see when you do this is a face-saving measure (like the girl here trying to 'clarify' about her job and raise her value back up a little more again), and then the girl promptly drops the topic or starts showing LOADS more interest in you ("So, what do YOU do? Something with a lot of freedom and independence? I so wish I could be like that!").

Chase

Neat!

It's amazing how we spend lots of time learning to build people up and getting to know them.

But when we run into people that can't stop complaining or venting, I can see the benefit of knowing some ways to frame other people as not so cool. It also makes them aware they are killing the vibe.

Definitely something I could work on in general. It's hard because people are not really being mean or cruel to you personally. But it's not like it's helping us build a relationship either. The dissimilarity is easy to feel in these cases

 

[Chase]

@Lover,

It's hard because people are not really being mean or cruel to you personally. But it's not like it's helping us build a relationship either. The dissimilarity is easy to feel in these cases

Yep! It's basic bad behavior. They know they're bringing down the mood but are hoping they won't be called out on it.

Normally they will cut it out quick if they are.

There's a good study on attitude-similarity vs. optimism/pessimism. The key findings:

Optimists are more socially attractive than pessimists. Optimists are more concerned with finding similarly optimistic partners than pessimists are similarly pessimistic ones. Optimists rate their relationship as higher quality if they rate their partner as similarly optimistic.

In any optimist-pessimist conversation, the optimist is typically going to be in the driver's seat, because he's going to be more disapproving of things that bring the vibe down. Pessimists are more or less disposition neutral: they're fine if you're an optimist, fine if you're a pessimist. But optimists strongly prefer other optimists -- so they fall into the screener role.

Chase

 

[ChrisXKiss]

@Lover,



Yep! It's basic bad behavior. They know they're bringing down the mood but are hoping they won't be called out on it.

Normally they will cut it out quick if they are.

There's a good study on attitude-similarity vs. optimism/pessimism. The key findings:



In any optimist-pessimist conversation, the optimist is typically going to be in the driver's seat, because he's going to be more disapproving of things that bring the vibe down. Pessimists are more or less disposition neutral: they're fine if you're an optimist, fine if you're a pessimist. But optimists strongly prefer other optimists -- so they fall into the screener role.

Chase

Would it ever be acceptable to make a more pessimistic comment?

Like if you genuinely feel bad about something should you ever express it in passing, or avoid even small remarks like "There is so much traffic" or "This queue is so long". Can't say for sure, but I think there was a habit in my family to mention things like that and I have subconsciously adopted it exactly as a way to build similarity with people over the situation at hand.

For example I remember one time, I was out with a date in a summer bar, and a guy I know who was also randomly there with someone else came to say hi before leaving. That bar was going to close for the winter and after the guy asked how I am doing, I told him something like: "I am good, just a bit sad this place closes tomorrow, I quite like coming here.", and I remember he answered something along the lines of: "Yeah, it's fine, there are still many other nice places around to go!".

And I felt really weirded out. I was expecting to bond over the bar closing, while he framed it in way that I was being negative while he was seeing the positive side, and I didn't like that at all in front of the girl. And I think I really was looking for that pessimistic similarity you describe.

And this is one particular case I remember because I got worried it could affect the seduction, gladly it didn't, but I'm sure I have experienced it more throughout my life. And I think now that maybe even situations where I felt tooled, in reality were just people being more optimistic and as a result feeling more like leaders.

So I guess it's probably better to never give people this chance and simply strive to stop yourself whenever you feel like making a pessimistic comment. And also strive even more to see the positive side of things as you go around in your life, to cut this behaviour from the roots.

 

[Chase]

@ChrisXKiss,

For example I remember one time, I was out with a date in a summer bar, and a guy I know who was also randomly there with someone else came to say hi before leaving. That bar was going to close for the winter and after the guy asked how I am doing, I told him something like: "I am good, just a bit sad this place closes tomorrow, I quite like coming here.", and I remember he answered something along the lines of: "Yeah, it's fine, there are still many other nice places around to go!".

And I felt really weirded out. I was expecting to bond over the bar closing, while he framed it in way that I was being negative while he was seeing the positive side, and I didn't like that at all in front of the girl. And I think I really was looking for that pessimistic similarity you describe.

And this is one particular case I remember because I got worried it could affect the seduction, gladly it didn't, but I'm sure I have experienced it more throughout my life. And I think now that maybe even situations where I felt tooled, in reality were just people being more optimistic and as a result feeling more like leaders.

Yes, you will have incidents like that when you try going for the "humorous complaint."

I used them for years, because they seem like they'd be easy to get laughs or a bond going with (useful for situationally relevant openings, for instance), and half of the time they do. But because they sometimes get negative reactions or pushback, they're a little too polarizing for my tastes these days. A lot of people will bristle at anything that sounds like a complaint, then view you as a potential complainer who may risk bringing their moods down.

Instead you're better off spinning pessimistic humor/observations into optimistic humor or observations:

• Instead of "Sheesh, this line's taking forever!" say "Good thing there's an interesting wall to look at while we wait in this line, huh?"
  
  
• Instead of "They really water down the drinks here, huh?" say "You know the good thing about how watered down the drinks are, they're helping me save my liver."
  
  
• Instead of "I'm a bit sad this place closes tomorrow" say "This place closes tomorrow. I'm going to have a lot of good memories of coming here."

The easy way to do this (the way I remember to do it) is if I'm about to make a humor complaint or observation, I try to find a way to slip the phrase "good thing" into it: "Good thing the barkeep's so slow. I'd have like five cocktails in me by now if he wasn't!" Etc.

Optimistic people will respond in an optimistic way: "Yeah, he's really helping us stay sober! Good bartender!" Pessimistic people can seize onto the complaint embedded in it: "I know, they're so slow here, right?" One size fits everybody!

Chase

 

[Dough]

Good advice on being careful with "pessimistic humor", I was guilty of messing that up sometimes and clearly need to stop.