Long-Term How to manage expectations and break-ups when you are in a serious relationship (the seducer way)

[POB]

Ok, this is a little overdue by my part, but I think it's gonna help a lot of guys.

If you are a seducer, no matter where you are in your journey, sooner or later (assuming you have a healthy relationship) you will face relationship dilemmas.
1) do I want to have sex with her alone, or other chicks too?
2) do I want to raise a family, or just keep her as a serious GF forever?
3) do I want to move-in together, or keep living by myself?

Those are common doubts you will face once you've been with a chick long enough.

Being a seducer and knowing what you are doing, by that point you've probably really rocked her world!
You treat her nice, but fair (meaning you never kiss her ass or pedestalize her), you give her awesome sex, and you always keep yourself an attractive independent man (so she is proud to have you in her arm).

But innevitably every healthy relationship is gonna reach a point where things will begin to shift.

Basically one of those four things is going to happen:
A) your expectations for a long term commitment will be greater than hers.
B) her expectations for a long-term commitment will be greater than yours.
C) your long-term expectations will match, but you will want different things (kids and marriage or travel and freedom).
D) your long-term expectations will match, and you will want the same thing (kids and marriage or travel and freedom).

Now this is a critical point that will sure make or break things!
Here is the blunt truth: if both you guys are not 100% on option D, the relationship is pretty much over.

I know this sounds harsh, and I agree it's very difficult to understand it when you truly love a woman (and she loves you back).
But when you reach that relationship point (usually at the 3-4 year mark), it's the perfect time to make it clear what you both need for your future, and decide if you want to stay together.

"But why can't I do it when we are only 1-2 years together? Do I need to wait that long?"

Because it's to soon to know if this is going to last.
There's still strong NRE (new relationship euphoria), probably from both sides, clouding the way forward.
On top of that, a lot is going to change between that phase, and the 3-4 year mark phase.

- her flaws will pop out like a whack'a'mole game, and you gonna see them clearly (she will experience the same feeling towards you),
- sex with her is still going to be good, but not close to what it was in the beggining, because caring and being together will trump that raw animal pumping (even if you have side chicks),
- companionship and friendship will arise, making it clear what kind of expectations you have towards each other.

What I see from 99% of people (including great seducers) is the fear of having to make that decision.
But as a man, it is you job to do it.

You never leave such an important decision in the hands of your woman. Why?
Because she is a woman.
She has a lot of feelings, emotions, doubts, uncertainties, insecurities, and the peer pressure of the world to be something that sometimes it's not feasible to her. As a man, you do have more pressure than her on a lot of things....but not in a relationship.
You are the relationship leader, so your obligation is to keep leading it to greener pastures....or ending it on a great note.

And it's your job to make it clear what you want from her once you figure it out.

"But what if she pressures me to do it sooner, like in 6 months or a year?"
Then it is on her, not you.
You simply say: "We are not there yet...but you are free to look for it elsewhere, especially if you cannot wait to see if you can get it from me".

"But what if I want it sooner?"
Look, I won't judge anyone here...but if you want to jump head first into something that it's not 100% clear yet, be my guest.
I rather be safe than sorry.

I'm gonna stop here because I don't want to write a text wall.
This is a complex topic that sure needs books and in-depth articles.
As always, feel free to hit me back with doubts and suggestions.

Peace
~POB

 

[Lantern]

Well... this is very timely. I opened the forums to open a new post on a very similar topic. However, it's somewhat personal to me, and I wouldn't want to derail the thread to my specifics, but on the other hand, the discussion could be useful for everyone, as it's the same problem from a slightly different angle. If you think that it's not appropriate for this topic, I'll delete the below and start a new thread.

Anyway, I have an odd issue at the moment. I've been dating this girl for about 8 months. I really like her, we're having a great time, have had a couple of serious conversations regarding our relationship and life and so on, all on a very mature level, she's basically everything I need and want at the moment.

We had a pregnancy scare recently, false alarm thankfully, and it raised an issue that she kind of mentioned early on, but now wants to settle. Which is kids, but not the usual way. See, she doesn't want children. She has deep personal reasons for it, and they actually make sense (it's not the usual "kids will cramp my style" crap, nor "omg climate change" or whatever). What's happened to her before is that she'd be in a relationship, communicate this clearly early on, the guy would assume she'd change her mind or whatever, and then leave her when she wouldn't. She said that getting treated like that hurt like hell, and that she doesn't want to go through that again, so she asked me for my answer, do I want kids or not.

Now, my honest answer is "I don't know." I was in a LTR (11 years) where it felt like I was "on track" for marriage and kids, and I was ok with that at the time. Since that LTR ended I've been trying to figure out what I actually want in life, and what I "wanted" on autopilot and because everyone around me was doing it. I know for sure I don't want kids at the moment, and the immediate future. But it might happen that I will want them in a few years. But also it might happen I won't. I'm coming to the conclusion that I don't have a super-strong position on kids, as I can imagine for my self a happy and fulfilling life both with and without children, and can see cons and pros of both. Some days, it feels like nothing will make sense without children, others I think even if you have them there's no gurantees they'll care about anything you care about and you might be sacrificing half your life for a bunch of assholes, no matter how well you raise them.

In any case, I want to be fair to her, but I'm not sure what she can do with a "I dunno, maybe?" as an answer. I mean, I'd be happy just have a mono relationship with her for a few years and move on if it hits an issue, but she seems to want to find someone "for good", as much as that is possible. I'd really hate to have to end it now, as I'm really happy with our relationship so far, but man, she's been through enough in her private life the last few years, and I don't wanna go braking her heart over something that could have been avoided early on.

Is there even a question here? I don't know, feels like a vent, but any suggestion would be welcome.

 

[POB]

Well... this is very timely. I opened the forums to open a new post on a very similar topic. However, it's somewhat personal to me, and I wouldn't want to derail the thread to my specifics, but on the other hand, the discussion could be useful for everyone, as it's the same problem from a slightly different angle. If you think that it's not appropriate for this topic, I'll delete the below and start a new thread.

Anyway, I have an odd issue at the moment. I've been dating this girl for about 8 months. I really like her, we're having a great time, have had a couple of serious conversations regarding our relationship and life and so on, all on a very mature level, she's basically everything I need and want at the moment.

We had a pregnancy scare recently, false alarm thankfully, and it raised an issue that she kind of mentioned early on, but now wants to settle. Which is kids, but not the usual way. See, she doesn't want children. She has deep personal reasons for it, and they actually make sense (it's not the usual "kids will cramp my style" crap, nor "omg climate change" or whatever). What's happened to her before is that she'd be in a relationship, communicate this clearly early on, the guy would assume she'd change her mind or whatever, and then leave her when she wouldn't. She said that getting treated like that hurt like hell, and that she doesn't want to go through that again, so she asked me for my answer, do I want kids or not.

Now, my honest answer is "I don't know." I was in a LTR (11 years) where it felt like I was "on track" for marriage and kids, and I was ok with that at the time. Since that LTR ended I've been trying to figure out what I actually want in life, and what I "wanted" on autopilot and because everyone around me was doing it. I know for sure I don't want kids at the moment, and the immediate future. But it might happen that I will want them in a few years. But also it might happen I won't. I'm coming to the conclusion that I don't have a super-strong position on kids, as I can imagine for my self a happy and fulfilling life both with and without children, and can see cons and pros of both. Some days, it feels like nothing will make sense without children, others I think even if you have them there's no gurantees they'll care about anything you care about and you might be sacrificing half your life for a bunch of assholes, no matter how well you raise them.

In any case, I want to be fair to her, but I'm not sure what she can do with a "I dunno, maybe?" as an answer. I mean, I'd be happy just have a mono relationship with her for a few years and move on if it hits an issue, but she seems to want to find someone "for good", as much as that is possible. I'd really hate to have to end it now, as I'm really happy with our relationship so far, but man, she's been through enough in her private life the last few years, and I don't wanna go braking her heart over something that could have been avoided early on.

Is there even a question here? I don't know, feels like a vent, but any suggestion would be welcome.

Kids are make or break in a relationship.
And it's normal as a man to not know if you want them.

In this case, women are more incisive about it: either they want it or not.

It doesn't matter the reasons....if you guys are in option C, it's a sign of concern.
What you can do is just be honest.

Say you like her, but can't make that decision yet because it's too soon for you in this period of your life....and let her decide if she wants to stay with you, knowing you can change your mind in the future.
It all depends on how you frame it.

 

[Lantern]

Thanks, POB, it's along the lines of what I'm thinking right now, it's nice to hear that you'd suggest similarly.

I think even if I stay with her, the more likely scenario of us braking up is some other reason, rather then I wake up one day and go "Oh, I want kids, and will now end this great relationship and go look for some breeding mare".

The bigger issue it seems is that she doesn't want to get into a long-term thing unless she maxes out the chances of it lasting for a long time, while I'm fine with a medium-term thing. Like, if we knew that one of us will move on the other side of the planet in a year, I'd be happy to stay with her for that time, while she probably would not want to. But I guess that's a typical dynamic,, male-female wise.

 

[POB]

Basically we guys love to bullshit ourseves to avoid emotional pain, instead of reaping off the band-aid all at once.
Plus a great relationship is never over.

I've lost count of how many of my exes ended up back in my bed as FBs after a while (some of them after more than a decade).
Worst case: you guys keep in touch and become distant friends through IM or social media.

 

[Skills]

Well... this is very timely. I opened the forums to open a new post on a very similar topic. However, it's somewhat personal to me, and I wouldn't want to derail the thread to my specifics, but on the other hand, the discussion could be useful for everyone, as it's the same problem from a slightly different angle. If you think that it's not appropriate for this topic, I'll delete the below and start a new thread.

Anyway, I have an odd issue at the moment. I've been dating this girl for about 8 months. I really like her, we're having a great time, have had a couple of serious conversations regarding our relationship and life and so on, all on a very mature level, she's basically everything I need and want at the moment.

We had a pregnancy scare recently, false alarm thankfully, and it raised an issue that she kind of mentioned early on, but now wants to settle. Which is kids, but not the usual way. See, she doesn't want children. She has deep personal reasons for it, and they actually make sense (it's not the usual "kids will cramp my style" crap, nor "omg climate change" or whatever). What's happened to her before is that she'd be in a relationship, communicate this clearly early on, the guy would assume she'd change her mind or whatever, and then leave her when she wouldn't. She said that getting treated like that hurt like hell, and that she doesn't want to go through that again, so she asked me for my answer, do I want kids or not.

Now, my honest answer is "I don't know." I was in a LTR (11 years) where it felt like I was "on track" for marriage and kids, and I was ok with that at the time. Since that LTR ended I've been trying to figure out what I actually want in life, and what I "wanted" on autopilot and because everyone around me was doing it. I know for sure I don't want kids at the moment, and the immediate future. But it might happen that I will want them in a few years. But also it might happen I won't. I'm coming to the conclusion that I don't have a super-strong position on kids, as I can imagine for my self a happy and fulfilling life both with and without children, and can see cons and pros of both. Some days, it feels like nothing will make sense without children, others I think even if you have them there's no gurantees they'll care about anything you care about and you might be sacrificing half your life for a bunch of assholes, no matter how well you raise them.

In any case, I want to be fair to her, but I'm not sure what she can do with a "I dunno, maybe?" as an answer. I mean, I'd be happy just have a mono relationship with her for a few years and move on if it hits an issue, but she seems to want to find someone "for good", as much as that is possible. I'd really hate to have to end it now, as I'm really happy with our relationship so far, but man, she's been through enough in her private life the last few years, and I don't wanna go braking her heart over something that could have been avoided early on.

Is there even a question here? I don't know, feels like a vent, but any suggestion would be welcome.

Listen i know you deeply care and love her, but even if every goal long term lines up and you were to break up, she would be deeply hurt and sad no matter what..... So will you.... But women biologically easier to deal with pain and move on...A lot of time when male fear their "hurting her" (which is silly, since one or the other or both will be hurt when it ends). It is a total male projection....

Tell her that you know that guys wasted her time and bait and switch her...... But that is not you, and you really at this time don't want kids, but maybe that will change in the future, maybe it will not.... But you want to enjoy what you have with each other to a max at THE PRESENT MOMENT....... If you break up by the way low odds will be for the kids, unless she is the one that wants the kids and she is in her upper 20s young 30s.... You as a man can have kids even in your 60s or even 70s (like my grandpa)...

 

[Zoro]

"I dunno, maybe?" as an answer.

Seems to me that "I don't know" is not the truth.

You know you don't want kids right now.

You know you are planning to decide in the future and not now.

Those are decisions.

I don't know is wishy washy. Give your women wishy washy answers and it starts to water down the foundations of the relationship. You are the captain (if you're a masculine man and she is feminine). That means you lead. Part of that is making hard decisions. If you know that she does not want those things, sometimes that means ending the relationship for both of your sakes.

Clarity and decisiveness go hand in hand. And they are powerful assets for a man when he has them.

 

[POB]

If you know that she does not want those things, sometimes that means ending the relationship for both of your sakes.

You can ask if she is willing to change her stance in the future (after all, people can change depending on the circunstances).
But you have to be ready to stick to your guns and move on by yourself if you get a hard no.

Clarity and decisiveness go hand in hand. And they are powerful assets for a man when he has them.

Precisely!

 

[Beck Bass]

@POB is on the money here... Our fear of "losing" women clouds our judgement sometimes, but if we really love them, we need to let go.
Sometimes we might even think we are being selfish for leaving a girl that wants something more serious, when we like her so much, but if you're not ready, you're only going to hurt her.
It's our responsability to care for these women and let them go if they need to.

Worst case: you guys keep in touch and become distant friends through IM or social media.

Very true, I'm texting both my exes and I feel peace... I have tons of girls to fuck now that I like, and I also have them as good friends

 

[samuraijack]

@POB

How do you find out if your expectations match? Just naturally in conversations that come up? Or do you dig for the info at certain milestones?

 

[POB]

@POB

How do you find out if your expectations match? Just naturally in conversations that come up? Or do you dig for the info at certain milestones?

I think both @samuraijack .

Look, everybody teachs us that women should do the talking in a relationship.
Wrong.

As the captain of the boat. it's our responsability to steer evertything in the right direction. I'm not saying we should talk all the time.
But we have to learn how to communicate properly, and not be afraid to enter difficult topics.

I usually do 2 things:
- find a quiet time to talk to her if something is really bothering me. I only talk AFTER I took a lot of time to figure out what I'm feeling;
- probe her to open up if I know something serious is bothering her. I don't press the matter. I just say "I'm willing to talk about anything, I'm your friend. If you need me, I'm here.";

Remember, women generally need periodic reassurance that everything is ok in the relationship.
(and the younger she is, the more she will need it).

Of course some women are more reserved, while others are more talkative and all over the place.
Even so, she has to know that you are rock solid about your emotions.
You are the rock, she is the water. Waves come and go, but the rock is still there.
(not the most original analogy, I know, but you get the point).

You don't want to throw yourself out there for no reason.
But when you do, if your frame is right, she wil llisten and appreciate it.

About expectations, like I said in the OP, I never bother with it before the 3 year mark.
To be honest, I kind of avoid entering too much into this topic myself before that timeframe.
If she wants to talk about it, fine.
But I won't press the matter at all.
I'll talk when MY expectations are clear, and that takes time.

 

[Skills]

@POB the only thing i disagree is the nre, nre is 3 to 6 months can go up to a year... but the more women your bang nre gets shorter and shorter... to wait 3 years for expectations is insane, you 2 will be too emotinally invested... you and her should know expectation during the vetting periods before she earn main status
..

 

[POB]

@Skills I see where you coming from, but my guess is seducers naturally take longer to manage expectations, just because they take longer to commit.

But again, I'm talking about me.
If guys wanna jump in this pool sooner, I see no problem, as long as they think it through.
It also depends on her age, your age, her current status (like if she has kids already, etc).

but the more women your bang nre gets shorter and shorter...

Right, from your part.
But not necessarely from your woman.
She still may have some nre after 1-2 years with you.
And you can still disappoint her when your true character pops out.
You also gotta figure out a way to manage her nre.

Plus after a while, you kinda of accept its gonna be like that (shorter and shorter nre) and learn to get a rush from the "pair bonding" feeling.

to wait 3 years for expectations is insane, you 2 will be too emotinally invested... you and her should know expectation during the vetting periods before she earn main status.

Yes, of course!
But this kind of veto should be done sooner, like 2-3 months tops.
By that time you should know if this thing has a future, or it's just for fun.

Also your expectations will change with the same woman.
You never know where it will lead when you start to get serious with her.
By the time those first expectations start to show up, they are still just an idea.

 

[Lantern]

I forgot to report back here, you guys deserve closure. So firstly, thanks again for everyone for chiming in.

I told her pretty much as the consensus showed here:

1. I am not planning any bait and switch
2. I am unsure what I want on the kids front fully. As it is now, I feel like I could be happy both with and without kids in my life.
3. I doubt I'll wake up one day and go "I'm in this great relationship with this wonderful woman, but I want kids so fuck it". If I'll be happy with you, I don't think I'd leave you for this reasons.

All of which is the truth.

Well, we're still together, 2 months later.