FU How to proceed when physical escalation turned down?

[Lucifer]

Hi guys.

The FR is below but this is more a general question.

A few times I've had this situation and I'm trying to figure out what to do better in the future.

Basically just has to do with physical escalation once back at my (or her) place.

After building rapport, eye contact, physical contact etc... I go for a kiss and they reject it on the initial try.

What do you do?

So far my strategy in this situation is to back off, act nonchalant and cool with a playful smile, talk 10 more minutes, then try again. If i get rejected again. Wait 10 minutes, try again. Etc. Etc. Just keep trying all night. Haha

Never works though.

3 times this has happened recently and all 3 times the girl has not replied for a 2nd date.

I feel like I'm coming off too easy, too sleazy, too desparate... Not enough of a challenge. BUT I'm trying for intimacy fast in order to be seen as a sexual, confident guy and not get friend zoned. How do you balance this?

I don't get it. These girls really seem to enjoy being with me but refuse anything physical. I suppose it's a great way to weed out time wasters quickly! But it would be nice to convert some of these situations into lays.

Any suggestions or article recommendations?

-------------
Quick FR from this weekend.

It was a sunny day and I went to a park and sat down by myself on a beautiful grassy hill. Took off my shirt. (Brought a beer and a hoot to enjoy as well).

I'm sitting in total bliss thinking this can't get any better when, as if the gods heard me, a gorgeous girl shows up on the path some distance away. She was 23, strawberry blonde, pretty nice body. I couldn't believe my luck. I yell something casual and nice and get her to sit in the grass with me.

After talking for an hour and really clicking (turns out we have some similar interests). She invites me to her house (a huge, rich house nearby, overlooking the park).

While we were walking back I went for a kiss and for a moment she was into it (perhaps the surprise effect) but then pulled away. (hindsight: it was stupid of me to escalate before we even got to her place...).

At her place we sat and drank 2 more beers. I tried several more times to kiss & escalate in various ways. No success.

She said after the 2nd beer I gotta go. I said ok.

We walked back to my car where I took her number and she never replied.

So... nothing happened! Fuck! This could have literally been one of the best days of my life. Everything seemed so perfectly set up. Can't believe it.

 

[Fluxcapacitor]

@Lucifer dude! Firstly your question belongs in the beginner or general boards not in the field reports. This might get more eyes on your post and get suitable feedback/answers.

Secondly there's articles on GC discussing going for a kiss and failing that I'd recommend reading but acting cool, unbothered and trying again is actually the advice in that article. It covers other situations such as they turn away and give the cheek and you kiss her cheek as if that was your attention all along. The other situation they say that they're not kissing you and you question it saying who said I wanted to kiss you? It's a chance to tease, be socially savvy, cool, unbothered and this can up their attraction to you dude.

Also 10 minutes might be too long to wait, it's not a time dependent thing to retry but a feeling. If she's warm, receptive and giving big IOIs even 30 seconds after your first attempt, now could be your chance. It's noticing and acting upon escalation windows dude.

There's also no touch pickups that you can try but this is advanced.... some dudes here won't kiss until they're about to fuck the girl. This approach Can be used with or without touching beforehand. This doesn't work for everyone and there's a divide in opinion with this.

Actionable advice for your question is build a compliance/yes ladder, if she's complying that's very little chance of rejection. Actual reframe this rejection, it's an objection. From your report this girl still invited you back so you didn't completely fuck up. An objection isn't a no, it's a not yet. She needed something else, comfort, attraction. Something was missing and I feel your attempt was uncalibrated which caused her to rethink.

Your eye contact and physical touch could be of. You can try triangle gazing and waiting to build up the sexual tension before going for the kiss. You can try soul gazing and then slowly moving in again building tension. Alternatively confidently go for it, you might be hesitating which puts doubt in her.

I'm not sure if your touch was incidental or purposeful. I'm not sure if it was sensual, playful or what but you can try variations dude. If they're happy for your touch and happy with you, a manhandle kiss is another technique to use. Also think of your vibe, is your vibe that you're needy and your rushing? The point of moving fast isn't to rush the seduction, it's too go as fast as she's comfortable with dude.

 

[Lucifer]

Thank you @Fluxcapacitor . Good advice.

Yeah I feel uncalibrated and rusty. I had a gf for a year and did no pickup at all during that time. The last few months I've been single and getting back into it.

Part of it was her, too. I could never get lasting eye contact from her no matter what. Also her anti slut defenses were super high, telling me she felt guilty for recently sleeping with her best friend's brother (while already being in a long distance relationship). I was cool & non judgemental & tried to make her feel ok about it.


The 'yes ladder' is awesome advice and sounds powerful. I gotta try with a simple one first. I've never done it cuz it seems difficult to do with all the other things I'm trying to keep in my brain during a pickup, like conversation branch off points, always moving forward, awareness of non verbal cues, my own non verbals, etc...

I know I gotta practice more, analyze and meet more girls so that attractive behaviours start coming naturally without me having to think about it.

Also good advice to not have to wait 10 minutes or any length of time, but to go by the vibe instead.


Thanks man.

 

[Fluxcapacitor]

@Lucifer dude I can relate to getting out of a relationship and starting seduction. Although I talked to a few new girls while I was in that relationship I didn't seduce any so understand being rusty. Personally I hit the ground running and went out two nights after the split and got a hell of a lot of attention. I ended up really liking this inexperienced girl that I met early in the night and I couldn't have made a worse decision about targeting her :') that's another story altogether.

It sounds like you're over complicating things by over thinking rather than acting. I know when you start you want to get everything right but you can't always analyse in the field while everything's going on and it's sometimes best to make your mistake and analyse it after.

Conversation branch offs is something I just feel in the moment but I've seen good advice about writing down your topics, writing a few points and transitions and this helps internalise the process. A good thing you can do during Corona is use your texts in a similar style, it's not typical good texting to text a lot but I can run good conversations through texts and get girls to text whole stories. The advantage of this is I get thinking time to reply, you can pick the best thing in the wall of text to take the conversation where you want it. Sexting? Sex talk? Rapport building?

Ultimately I don't think it's your conversation branching that's let you down here, maybe slightly reading her body language and trying to move forward to fast at times. The kiss when walking back to her house sounded uncalibrated, and sounded like a really bad time to do it. To another extent if you're hand in hand walking along you could make this very smooth and romantic of gently pulling her in, gazing on her, running your fingers over hers, waiting for her to give in to the tension or look extremely excited or look to the ground submitting. It could have been a good it's on moment.

 

[Toby2030]

Which objections did you get? Did you do any sex talk, and did you do anything to remove her resistance towards a one night stand?

 

[Lucifer]

Thank you for the additional insight @Fluxcapacitor

Which objections did you get? Did you do any sex talk, and did you do anything to remove her resistance towards a one night stand?

Her objection was that she is "going through a 'cleanse' right now" from physical intimacy because she feels guilty for recently sleeping with her best friend's brother... as well as that she's currently in a (long distance) relationship.

I did my best to frame her one night stand as something not to feel bad about. I did some sex talk, talking about what she likes, toys she uses, things like that... I talked about how long distance relationships rarely work and it's "nice to have a human touch, esp. during covid... " and bs like that, haha.

 

[Toby2030]

This is a social frame problem.
This might be a personal preference but don't kiss a girl while moving her. You already ask for compliance when you are moving her from a to b, asking for more at the same time is risk taking. Especially when you haven't already kissed her.

Secondly, you should have used more energy on setting resistance removing frames as early as possible. I'm also pretty sure that you could have done more at her place than you probably did. You could have been lucky that she would get really aroused by your sex talk, and fuck you anyway. But for higher results, you should focus on removing her resistance instead. This is like you have a steel cable hooked up to a car. The steel cable is her resistance, and the speed of the car is her arousal. You could try to destroy the cable by driving fast, and ramping up her arousal. It can work but can go wrong too. Or you could just remove the steel cable and then get more speed on the car afterwards.

Often you move faster by moving slow.

What you should remember for your next sets:
- Don't kiss a girl while you are moving her
- Set resistance removing frames as early as possible