How to Work Around Supplica...er...Valentine's Day?

[ThePhoenix]

I'll use a specific example, but it's something that I know must come up often!

I met a girl from day game on the 6th and things looked good. Sent an intro text an hour later and she answered right away. We texted briefly on the 8th. Some silence was called for so no contact on the 9th.

If this were business as usual, I'd be re-engaging her within the next day or two and hopefully setting up a meet. Only problem is, there's this landmine on the calendar!!

I know enough to know that any sort of "we are having a Valentine's Day date" frame would be extremely bad when we haven't had sex. There is a high risk that she'll go into boyfriend/provider mode and I'll be faced with astronomical LMR I am not yet qualified to deal with! I think if I were extremely good at keeping a sexy vibe and BF disqualifying, it might not be a problem, but I'm not there yet.

I'm not looking at this girl as an LTR and even if I were I would absolutely not want to fall into the early-BF beta male trap.

So, part of me thinks to stay silent until the 15th and then try to re-engage her then. Only, that's also risky, as I don't want her to cool off too much - loss of momentum.

Is it sufficient to just try business as usual and try to get a meet before the 13th? (I know the 13th or 15th could be bad due to still possibly being framed as Valentine's.)

 

[HereNthere]

Tell her you'll be out of town until the 16ish but you'd love to do something then?

 

[Seppuku]

Hey Phoenix,

I know enough to know that any sort of "we are having a Valentine's Day date" frame would be extremely bad when we haven't had sex. There is a high risk that she'll go into boyfriend/provider mode and I'll be faced with astronomical LMR I am not yet qualified to deal with! I think if I were extremely good at keeping a sexy vibe and BF disqualifying, it might not be a problem, but I'm not there yet.

Very well spotted and stated. I normally avoid Valentine's Day, unless it's with an actual girlfriend.

You'll find that many (single) girls *have* to have a date on Valentine's Day, if only to prove their own attractiveness to themselves... That is, for these specific girls, they will go on a date just for the sake of it, rather than because they actually give a shit about the guy. Some others will go with a guy they care about, but the purpose is social display and conformity to the socially accepted rules of courtship - and re-assert the boyfriend frame in the process.

All in all, Valentine's Day is all about the girl. Not good for your karma.

I suppose it's too late for my answer, but if you have any interest, I usually avoid dating on VDay, and two to three days before and after VDay, which could be framed as "early VDay" or "late VDay".

If for any logistical reason (like here) you can't make the date happen soon (as it otherwise should), you will have to keep communication ongoing, and keep the link alive, through casual chatting, until about two to three days before intended date - when you actually voice out the idea of the date then arrange logistics.

Seppuku

 

[HereNthere]

How about advice on avoiding v-day WHILE in a relationship

 

[Hue]

Literally had a conversation with my coworker about her Valentine's Day plans hours ago. It's totally about the girl - unless you're in a serious / substantial emotional commitment with her.

My drink date for tonight seems to have just flaked on me perhaps this plays a factor (her friends also dislike me considerably).


I planned on being a son of a bitch and going out to the bars either tonight or tomorrow - simply because I know there will be girls that want cheap pipe tomorrow night. Seems like a decent night to take up freelance plumbing!

Then again.. many girls that do go out for this reason might have not managed to snatch up a guy for their ego for the day/night (as in, they might be pretty beat chicks), and that girl's friends might be there for her emotional support (and perhaps to cockblock).

Interested to see how things go.

Hue

 

[Mr.Rob]

I planned on being a son of a bitch and going out to the bars either tonight or tomorrow - simply because I know there will be girls that want cheap pipe tomorrow night. Seems like a decent night to take up freelance plumbing!

Lol, that's the spirit G. Always been a fan of national rebound day myself

 

[HereNthere]

My experience has been that girls out "on the hunt" at bars that day aren't there for a lay. They're there for a date and possible relationship.

I had one come up to me last year. She was with a friend. We all talked, played shuffleboard at the bar. Time came to leave and she said she had to leave with her friend, but agreed to come over my place for a movie the next night.

She comes over. We start watching. We make out for about a minute or two then when I try to move it forward, she jerks back and says, "Wait, did you think I was just some floozy you could pick up?"

You accepted an invite to watch a movie at a guy's place less than 24 hours after meeting him at a bar so...yes? And who the hell still says "floozy" ?

This was not a girl I was interested in beyond an easy hookup, and her super defensive tone was a huge turn off. She then jumped up and announced that we should go to trivia night at a bar with her friends three-quarters of a mile away. There was a ton of snow from last night's blizzard. Trudge almost a mile in the snow for a group outing with some girl I didn't even like much and hadn't had sex with to hang out with her friends? Fuck -> that. She left.

Another Valentine's day about 10 years ago I was out with my friend. These 2 girls were talking and looking at us. A minute later they come up to us offering shots they just bought. Sweet! My friend and I each break off with one of the girls. Mine starts talking about all the fancy restaurants in the area. I say, "You sound really into restaurants. Are you a food critic?" She says, "I'm telling you in case you want to take A GIRL out to dinner there."

Oh fuck. I'm being told I need to take this girl out for dinner first within the first half hour? The girls go to the bathroom. My friend comes up to me making the throat slash gesture. He tells me that he suggested to his girl that we all go back to my apartment hot tub, and she responded with a horrified "What kind of girl do you think I am?" Uhhhh...the kind who walks up to guys with shots? I reported my instant meal-provider status with my girl and we both left before they came back from the bathroom.

 

[ThePhoenix]

I suppose it's too late for my answer...

Not at all; I was wary enough to stay out of that trap anyway. But you reminded me to keep the line open, which went well so far, so thank you for the great perspective as usual! I've written up the progression thus far here.

Now, if I casually ping her on the 15th and get a "what are you doing right now?", that's when my brain will resemble the egg in the frying pan in the anti-drug PSAs.

I usually avoid dating on VDay, and two to three days before and after VDay, which could be framed as "early VDay" or "late VDay".

That's what I was wondering: how close is too close. Three days sounds like a good policy.

I suppose this makes it a somewhat bad idea to meet new girls so close to Valentine's Day. I'd have been smarter than that, but for the fact that I'd been mostly trapped at home for a month before, so as soon as I got the chance to start going out I wanted to get back to work on breaking the not-talking-to-girls habit. lol. At least I'm starting to crack it.

Dating apps are probably useless in the week or two anyway leading up to VDay, I'm guessing. Probably flooded with single girls looking for their Valentine. Oh my God I just realized what that thing on my phone yesterday was about! I had installed the Tinder app several months ago but haven't created an account just yet. Yesterday I get a push notification telling me Tinder is on fire in my area. LMAO!

I guess during these couple weeks, day game is at a unique advantage, in that it's the only place where women are (at least presumably) not hunting down their Valentine.

...until about two to three days before intended date - when you actually voice out the idea of the date then arrange logistics.

It's interesting that you mention arranging dates multiple days out. Most dates I've had, I had proposed the day before. Of course, that was my M.O. I'd kind of thought that it capitalized on momentum better. I did find that when they were really into me they would jump on next day offers. I guess I probably lost some that were more on the fence though. I did find that a girl cancelling was more common on dates that weren't next day - random probability factors into that, but her cancelling seems like a bad precedent to allow even if it's just over random stuff. Then again, her refusing is bad precedent, too, which is why I've recently been trying to just ping for her activities tomorrow before actually proposing. But does that seem weak?

I stress a bit over the actual date setting, being that momentum, assertiveness, negative compliance, and chasing seem to be in a delicate relationship!

Tell her you'll be out of town until the 16ish but you'd love to do something then?

Might work, until she runs into me at the mall looking for more girls!

Those bar stories made me both laugh and cringe.

I planned on being a son of a bitch and going out to the bars either tonight or tomorrow - simply because I know there will be girls that want cheap pipe tomorrow night.

LOL! Now me, being more inclined to daygame, I wonder if the 15th is any good...

 

[Seppuku]

It's interesting that you mention arranging dates multiple days out. Most dates I've had, I had proposed the day before. Of course, that was my M.O. I'd kind of thought that it capitalized on momentum better. I did find that when they were really into me they would jump on next day offers.

No contradiction. I meant up to two or three days before. More than that is counterproductive. Three days before if you need to get a little back and forth before setting a date, e.g. if you didn't chat her in a bit. Else, two days or one day before is best. So, you were good! Asking for same day date is a little risky as she may already have plans (too short notice). If you have to ask multiple times in order to get a date you'll need to be careful coming across as persistent rather than chasing. So it's best to have it right on first ask.

Then again, her refusing is bad precedent, too, which is why I've recently been trying to just ping for her activities tomorrow before actually proposing. But does that seem weak?

Her refusing is building negative compliance up. You can't afford to be refused too many times. Pinging for her plans doesn't seem weak to me. The way I usually handle that is to float the idea of a date first. Then ask for a specific day. In the end, it's whatever works for you.

 

[Ambiance]

https://boards.girlschase.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13071&p=66466#p66466

This was one of my first LRs, and was on Februrary 13th. I don't remember having any Valentine's Day related issues, or even bringing up Valentine's Day at all. It all depends on how you frame something. It didn't even occur to me that Valentine's Day was around the corner, so of course my frame was that it was just a typical meet up.

Ambiance

 

[ThePhoenix]

No contradiction. I meant up to two or three days before. More than that is counterproductive. Three days before if you need to get a little back and forth before setting a date, e.g. if you didn't chat her in a bit. Else, two days or one day before is best. So, you were good! Asking for same day date is a little risky as she may already have plans (too short notice).

Thanks for clarifying!

Yeah, I don't normally attempt same day. I've read one author who likes to do that, right in the morning. Probably golden when it works, but it's a bigger risk. Plus, you'd have to make it later in the day or evening, and I prefer not to set dates in the evening if I can avoid it, because there could be more of an expectation of a formal date. So, yeah, next day seems optimal.

One thing I have yet to try but should, is the instant date upon meeting in day game. Hopefully as I get approaching more into my comfort zone I'll try more stuff. I'm still at the point of being just slightly in shock that I'm talking to some random girl I stopped in a mall, so I don't always remember stuff that I want to try. That'll get easier.

If you have to ask multiple times in order to get a date you'll need to be careful coming across as persistent rather than chasing.

Yeah, that is tricky. I guess one way is, if she refuses a proposed day and doesn't immediately volunteer an alternative, tell her, "I'm not sure yet which other days I have free. I will have to let you know." And then make another proposal after a couple days or so. This way you retain the more powerful position and make her the one chasing.

This was one of my first LRs, and was on Februrary 13th. I don't remember having any Valentine's Day related issues, or even bringing up Valentine's Day at all. It all depends on how you frame something. It didn't even occur to me that Valentine's Day was around the corner, so of course my frame was that it was just a typical meet up.

Framing is certainly a powerful thing. My concern would be that, depending on how strong her preconceived notions are, not to mention where she's at in life (ability to get men, age vs. fertility, social/family pressures, etc.), she might be starting with a pretty strong frame of her own which you're then having to out-frame. Not to say out-framing her isn't possible, but it could make it tougher.

In your example, it sounds like the two of you had a pretty strong natural "magnetism" towards one another, which might have helped! Ironically, her being very attractive may have helped too, in that she already gets a lot of validation so doesn't need the "I have a boyfriend for Valentine's Day" frame - just a thought! Your not even remembering VDay was coming up probably did help, too.

Nice report, by the way!

Phoenix