FR "I can't give you my number just yet, but..."

[Marty]

Okay peeps, help me out with this one if you would.

This evening I am heading to the gym at around 7:30 PM when I see a girl who has apparently just left the same gym, clad in black yoga pants and a violet sporting top, walking to her car. She has rich dark brown hair pleated and slung over one shoulder, as is the contemporary fashion. My feet involuntarily change direction to follow her. I confess I let some very nice girls pass me by to this day, but when I see something like this, autopilot takes over to ensure all mating opportunities are fully explored... I have no choice.

As I observe her from behind I note that she has my favorite figure. Allow me to explain. The archetypal "perfect" vital statistics for glamour models that the Europeans call "90-60-90" (I suppose it would be 36-24-36 in the States) are a wonderful thing to behold, but what gets me even more hot under the collar is when the girl is ever so slightly "bottom heavy", that is to say the chest is somewhat narrower than "ideal" and the hips broader. I guess something like 85-60-95 is what we are discussing here; in any case, women from the Netherlands often have this shape, and Eastern Slavic women to a lesser extent too (Russians and Ukrainians)... they still have the reduced chest but the inflated hips are not so pronounced as with the Dutch. This ultra-feminine appearance does things to me that any potential enemies would find all too easy to exploit In any case, this woman is a homegrown American beauty. I'm not the best judge of age but I'd guess 24.

I hear two young, uniformed security personnel walking right behind me remark to each other that she is a "fine piece of ass" and "highly fuckable". Thanks for filling me in on that score, fellas

So, she comes to her car, unlocks it and sits in the driver position; for the first time, I see her from the front. Thank God, she is not quite perfect: her face is very pretty, extremely pleasurable to look at, but not sublime. A sigh of relief for that slight imperfection... I will not suffer a heart-attack this time

I don't think I'll make it in time. She'll shut the car door and I'll be done for. My feet continue to direct me toward my quarry, however

I come closer and suddenly she locks eyes with me. She SMILES at me. She is holding the door open.

Waiting!!

• 
  Marty: Hey!
  
  Girl: Hey!
  
  Marty: Are you just done working out?
  
  Girl: Yeah!
  
  Marty: Just heading there myself. I saw you glide by so gracefully and simply couldn't resist coming over to say hello.
  
  Girl: Well, I... I mean, that's... !!!
  
  Marty: What's your name?

I take her hand.

• 
  Girl: I haven't worked out in a while, actually. This was the first time for a few weeks.
  
  Marty: Well, your shape looks pretty fine to me!
  
  Girl: Thank you! Well, I do hiking too... and yoga! I'm just off to yoga actually.
  
  Marty: So, workout followed by yoga class... very intense, huh?
  
  Girl: Very intense.
  
  Marty: What time does your class start?
  
  Girl: 8 PM.
  
  Marty: You'd better go. Care to grab dinner with me another day?
  
  Girl: I mean, I'd really like to, but...

Oh no. Please. Not that. Don't say you have a boyfriend. Anything but that.

• 
  Girl: I'm not really dating anyone at the moment.

Oh thank God.

• 
  Marty: (wiseass grin) Well, I didn't necessarily say I wanted to date you... we can make it just dinner, it doesn't have to be a date as such. Can just do coffee if you want.
  
  Girl: Mmmm... tell you what, are you here often?

Oh no. Not this!

• 
  Marty: Well yes I am, but I think you'd better leave me your cell phone number just in case. I'll have to memorize it, I don't bring my phone to the gym.
  
  Girl: I can't give you my number just yet. But I work over at the XYZ tavern, you know? 3 evenings a week. Thu-Fri-Sat 8 PM – 11 PM.
  
  Marty: Aha so you want me to just... drop by?
  
  Girl: Yes.
  
  Marty: {Name}, isn't it?
  
  Girl: Yes.
  
  Marty: Thursday, Friday, Saturday late evening. And you don't want to leave your number because... you've had a bad experience in the past?
  
  Girl: Yes.
  
  Marty: Fair enough. XYZ Tavern, huh? Okay, we'll have to see about that. Enjoy the rest of your evening!
  
  Girl: You too, it was nice to meet you!

Her body language and especially facial expression was very positive throughout. I wonder if failing to push through for the number was a black mark against me, or by contrast an indication of outcome-independence.

Basically, she's worth it... if you're in any doubt. Yeah, really worth it. Big time. So, what should I do? Considering today's Monday...

• Go this Thursday, alone, at 10:45 PM, grab a drink and catch her as she comes off shift?
• Wait till NEXT Thursday, then go alone, at 10:45 PM, grab a drink and catch her as she comes off shift?
• Fri & Sat are probably a bad option, agreed? Something else? Would you go with a male friend? Or with a girl?!?

Thanks for your advice!

-Marty

 

[Hector Papi Castillo]

A few of these suggestions rely on

1. The tavern isn't too out-of-the-way, making you seem like a try-hard for casually going there

2. Your ability to non-verbally communicate that you visited for her only as a secondary reason

So, your best options, in order of quality are

1. Go with a woman (a lover or a friend who can wingwoman).

2. Go with a buddy or two.

3. Go alone.


The first may sound petty and unnecessary, because I know exactly how you feel - "Hey, she probably is just emotionally reeling and has genuinely extended an invitation to me. She likes me!" But trust me, she's playing games with you and has already set up a chase dynamic. YOU have to make the effort to see her (the one who invests more controls less). It's in public, so your interaction won't hold her private, undivided attention. Moreover, she'll be distracted/scarce while working, both of which will induce and amplify your chasing.


How To Act:

Option 1 and option 2 require a very strong understanding of precedent 2: you must genuinely seem like she just HAPPENS to be there when you visit. The non-verbals for this include the very important recognition of her presence and your scarce but still noticeable attention to her. For the former, when you walk into the tavern, DO NOT SCAN THE ROOM FOR HER. Eyes up, walk to the bar, sit down, and then look around VERY SLOWLY. When you recognize her, hold your gaze and smile (you won't be non-verbally chasing since you know her. When you, ideally, meet her already staring eyes, smile warmly and beckon her). Engage in small talk and then let her get back to her job (e.g., "well, it's good seeing you, but, I don't want to hold you up; you seem busy"). If it's not busy, you can say it sarcastically - either way, you're conveying non-neediness and how she responds to this will instantly show you where you stand. If she reassures you it's fine and keeps talking, you're solid. If she walks away or shows any strong indications of aloofness, you're probably dead. This normally wouldn't be a death call, but since you're already chasing from the get-go, I'd abandon ship if you receive a less-than-warm welcome. In the event that she stays or interacts warmly with you, keep it light, try not to talk about the job too much, and REALLY let her do the talking (if you normally allow a 30-70 ratio for talking time, cut it down to 20-80; adjust accordingly). She's working, you're not - if you babble too much or ever seem cumbersome, you'll fail her social calibration tests.

The Nature of Your Options:

Option 1 will naturally keep you from investing too much in her and obviously set up preselection and jealousy. Moreover, you'll feel like a boss and your vibe will be killer.

Option 2 will still keep you from investing too much and while you may not feel like a boss, you should still have fun with your buddies. Normally, group activities are bad, but this is an exception; she set up the public, platonic nature of your interaction - you're matching it and challenging her to choose its final state - platonic or romantic.

Option 3 will require your absolute top-notch game. You must think the whole time - "Yeah, I wanna bend her over that bar, but, I'm chill with just drinking alone. I need nothing from her." Call it outcome independence, but it's always more helpful to elaborate the mental fortitude with a phrase or quote.


Some Thoughts:

Her body language and especially facial expression was very positive throughout. I wonder if failing to push through for the number was a black mark against me, or by contrast an indication of outcome-independence.

Basically, she's worth it... if you're in any doubt. Yeah, really worth it. Big time. So, what should I do?

Reframe this thought as "She seemed non-verbally receptive, but I know these are just reactions - women do this to save face and retain a pleasant reputation. I could have been more persistent, but no biggie. I'll try a bit, but once she becomes too much work, I'll move on."

You're a very romantic man, Marty. This is your strength, but to prevent it from ever becoming your weakness, you must mechanize your thoughts more and, you may not like this, objectify women a bit more. You need to add some primal ferocity and detached curiosity to your interactions. These mental tweaks will radically change your mindset and, consequently, your diction and non-verbals.


Hope this helps,

Anatman

 

[Marty]

Hey Anatman,

Solid advice as ever, and no effort spared!

I may struggle a little to bring along a suitable female, since it probably ought to be someone no less young, and no less pretty, than the damsel in question (to avoid what Chase describes here) and sadly I don't quite yet have such a repository of lovers!

Very good point nonetheless about not scanning the room for the chick. I like to think I hadn't intended to, but honestly, I think I'll take your "reminder" more as an admonishment not to lose my nerve and slip into "scan" mode, because you're dead right that would blow my chances once and for all.

And yeah, she'll be working... I'll make sure I'm lower energy than her and speak far, far fewer words. Very wise counsel.

Frankly this is a very long shot, but I guess I'm gonna take it (at some point) in the hope of learning as much as possible. Put myself through boot-camp

I want to ask about this:

Reframe this thought as "She seemed non-verbally receptive, but I know these are just reactions - women do this to save face and retain a pleasant reputation. I could have been more persistent, but no biggie. I'll try a bit, but once she becomes too much work, I'll move on."

You're a very romantic man, Marty. This is your strength, but to prevent it from ever becoming your weakness, you must mechanize your thoughts more and, you may not like this, objectify women a bit more. You need to add some primal ferocity and detached curiosity to your interactions. These mental tweaks will radically change your mindset and, consequently, your diction and non-verbals.

I follow the thrust of what you say and I admit you're right. What I want to clarify is this: does it mean I shouldn't try to empathize excessively (where her image of me is concerned), try to figure out what she's feeling (about me, naturally), try to look into her head too much; instead just ratchet my process forward, step-by-step, focusing on her actions only... if she complies, advance to the next step; if not, step back a second, then try again ASAP.

Right?

Thanks!

-Marty

 

[Hector Papi Castillo]

You're a very romantic man, Marty. This is your strength, but to prevent it from ever becoming your weakness, you must mechanize your thoughts more and, you may not like this, objectify women a bit more. You need to add some primal ferocity and detached curiosity to your interactions. These mental tweaks will radically change your mindset and, consequently, your diction and non-verbals.

I follow the thrust of what you say and I admit you're right. What I want to clarify is this: does it mean I shouldn't try to empathize excessively (where her image of me is concerned), try to figure out what she's feeling (about me, naturally), try to look into her head too much; instead just ratchet my process forward, step-by-step, focusing on her actions only... if she complies, advance to the next step; if not, step back a second, then try again ASAP.

Right?

-Marty

Precisely. This will give you an air of "mentally stable badass who will express his deep love for romanticism, but only if the girl deserves it."

I see your ultimate seduction form being a hybrid of "The Most Interesting Man In The World" and Val Kilmer in The Saint. You have both the sophistication and experience for it. You just need to ramp up the rugged, scarred badass game to the next level.

- Anatman

 

[Mr. oblivious]

1. Go with a woman (a lover or a friend who can wingwoman).

2. Go with a buddy or two.

3. Go alone.

Preferable you don't want to role with option three because going to her work place would already be classified chasing especially if its a bar you don't frequently go to. (she will no since she works there)

I would say try bring a lover or a girl your good mates with or try bring a group of friends with a mixture of boys and girls (probably even numbers)

 

[Marty]

I went there at about 11 PM, when she's supposed to get off. To get myself into the swing of things, I opened and number-closed a chick in night-street game as I walked there from the car.

There was no sign of her, so I made a point of talking to the hottest girl behind the bar, a solid 10 blonde, probably 21. She was surrounded by four (4) friend-zoned beta-male drinkers fawning over her as she served. I caught her eye, and ignoring the guys who thought they were in mid-conversation with her, asked directly over their heads whether an offshoot downstairs belonged to the same establishment, or not. When she told me yes, I checked it out briefly, still no sign of my girl.

I returned to the hottie behind the bar, stood to one side, gaze averted, and this time she came over immediately. She told me that the hourglass-chick would be there tomorrow (Friday).

I pulled out my wallet and thumbed through for a business card, during which time the cute bargirl did not disengage. I checked she'd be there tomorrow too, then asked her to give it to the hourglass babe and tell her to text me on my cell. She seemed very willing to pass on the message. I made sure to be very direct and to the point and not to show any entrancement on account of her beauty. My only mistake, I believe, was not to ask her name and share my own... just to make the "thank you" more personal and meaningful: that would have shown an extra shot of confidence.

My judgment is that discretion will not be an issue on account of the messenger being a solid 10—those are not usually the gossipy types (they don't need to be), and hopefully this will reflect well on me. It's way better effort-wise than heading back the following night.

It's a long shot, but we'll see.

 

[Richard]

Marty -

These are actually my favorite types of interactions with women - probably a good 2 or 3 minutes of talking followed by a number close (which I'm sure you'll get when you're at the tavern).

Great job buddy! Keep up the good work.

-Richard