I don't want sympathy but Have you guys felt disposable? At a societal level

trashKENNUT

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Hello People,

I ask this question because recently, i was reading some news and two siblings died. A brother and a sister. To make people read the news, they only put a photo of his sister only.

So, i ask, have you guys felt disposable?

I have, and not just personally but publicly when i have work as a normal worker and you have girls looking at you like a second class citizen. Chase noted this to me that this is a question of whether i'm too low value, in one response to a topic.

And perhaps this is why i am determined to fight for the lowest of lowest of man. Because i'm not so well off but when i dress up, i look well off and girls treat me better. Which makes me think all women are pathetic and i really do think women are pathetic, in a sense. Petty might be the right word. They can't differentiate fundamental basedline vs process.

Which makes me in conflict with Chase's beliefs. He noted in an article women taking care of her sons is life, and every small battle is World War III. Basically, in that article

Being petty = Life.

I kind of agree and see where he comes from. Agent smith noted that we are happy thru misery. And even this post, you can argue that i am happy thru misery but really it is just a curious thing..

So, i ask, have you guys felt disposable?
 

Regal Tiger

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Sperm is cheap, and so are men.

I've never felt not disposable by society. Even by my own family while I was younger I was disposable. It's only when I'm an adult that people actually help me, kinda weird.

That's just the way it is.

However, I wouldn't worry about women treating you better when you dress better. That's just women trying to get the best that they can get, so when you dress up you look much more attractive. Us guys do the same thing; fat chicks practically wear invisibility cloaks lol.


The only way that I know of to fight this phenomenon is to get some status, make some friends and be attractive. An attractive man is much more valuable than the common man. Society cares when the President dies. Nobody gives a shit when one of us die.
 

Chase

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Zac,

This is the truth of life:

Everything's disposable, and nothing is.

Whatever you want to point to could be considered disposable.

The Earth could blink out of existence and take every one of us with it, and if there are other folks in the universe I doubt they would much notice or care.

At the smaller level, any individual man, or family, or tribe, or civilization can be wiped out and replaced. When the Romans slew all the Carthaginian men and sold their women and children into slavery and poured salt into the earth there so nothing would ever grow, the world moved on fine without them. When the Mayans and the Khmer abandoned their cities to the jungles and became hunter-gatherer tribes again, the world didn't miss a beat.

The non-disposable aspect of life is our effect in the great web of things. Whether you call that the butterfly effect, the ripple effect, the compounding effect, what have you. The 1946 movie It's a Wonderful Life is of course the ultimate film example of this.

Without you, we would not be having this discussion. Without you, many discussions here would never have occurred. Countless other ripple effects that came from those discussions would not have occurred. This place would be different. That is only one environment; your presence crosses numerous environments, and you affect all these places in all sorts of ways, many of which you will never know about.

Some random person you smiled at one day brightened up from a bad day she was having, then shared some cheer with a friend of hers who, unknown to her, planned to kill herself, but that cheer she shared (which began with you) stopped her. Some offhand remark you made somewhere got some young guy to think about his life in a different way, which sent him into a different career, which made him wealthy, and led him eventually to a branch of philanthropy where he did all kinds of good for his fellow man.

Life is about more than direct impact. It is also about the indirect ones; arguably more so, because there are so many more of them. And to calculate all the indirect impacts you have, you'd need a computer simulator the size of the universe. Thus life is the simulation (whether it's actually a computer/intelligently-created simulation or not - I lean toward 'not', but it's not a falsifiable theory, so cannot be disproved; however even if it's a dumb, naturally occuring phenomenon, for our purposes we can still consider it a simulator here); your actions cause X, Y, and Z unpredictable ripple effects through the world.

--

At the micro scale, people will treat you with disdain or disrespect. It doesn't matter who you are or what you do.

Walk outside and make eye contact with people. Some girls will smile or look down submissively. Some will roll their eyes dismissively. Many will break their eye contact neutrally to the side, pretending to look at something else. Some guys are friendly. Some are uncomfortable (maybe they think you're gay). A few may be confrontational.

The most powerful people in the world get treated like second class citizens by all sorts of people. Many Americans called Barack Obama a weakling, a homosexual, and a terrorist. Many other Americans now call Donald Trump a bully, a racist, and an idiot. Both these men were/are President of the U.S.A.

People who are social ladder climbers will treat you with disdain if they see you as beneath them. Likewise, they will either worship the ground you walk on if they view you as above them... or they will smile through their teeth at you, while they plot how to knife you in the back and climb over you.

The easiest way to deal with this at an emotional level is to internalize that you are hiding your power level. e.g. "Ha, this chick thinks I am some ordinary corporate stooge. Shows how perceptive SHE is! I have her totally fooled."

This is easy to do when you are a man with many sides to yourself, only one of which most people ever see.

ZacAdam said:
Because i'm not so well off but when i dress up, i look well off and girls treat me better. Which makes me think all women are pathetic and i really do think women are pathetic, in a sense.

Riddle me this, Zac.

A girl struts in, dressed in a bright red, extravagant, low cut dress. Her tits are popping out of the top of that dress. Her hair is done up in luxurious curls. Huge lashes flank her eyelids. Her lips are the color of her dress. Her back is arched, atop 6" heels. She looks at you, then looks away, in that pouty, powerful sort of way.

Another girl shuffles in, frumpy clothes, average-looking hair, no makeup, wearing loafers. She looks at you and smiles hopefully.

Do you have any different emotions toward these two women, and do you treat them different in any way?

This is what women go through too, when they encounter "average Zac" vs. "dressed to-the-nines Zac." They are not pathetic liars for this, any more than you are a pathetic liar for being flustered and intimidated and excited by the girl in the red dress... and laid back, comfortable, and perhaps disinterested with the frumpy girl. They are just responding to visual cues and display incentives, same as you.

This is how humans have to work in a system of imperfect information. When a girl cannot read you and instantly know everything about you - your full life history, your future, your genetic code and everything it codes for - all she can use instead are the signals you give her: your look, your job, your behavior.

If you don't like the impression those signals give her, change the signals you're putting out there. A big part of this site is about that.

Or, if you don't like it at a more macro level, then help solve the problem: how do you move humanity to a system of more perfect information, where prospective mates can evaluate each other on richer, truer signals, rather than the poor and largely indirect signals they're forced to rely on at present?

The question should not be "I am X. How do I want women to look at me?" but rather "I want women to look at me like Y. What do I need to tweak, change, or become to accomplish this?"

Because, after all - are you really your job? Or your clothes? Is that how you define yourself?

Or are these mere accoutrements - ones you can change, if you wish - and you are YOU, the MAN?

At least for me, I am far more concerned what people think about me once they deeply know me than what they think when they hardly do. And the only women who deeply know me are the ones I've been fucking three months or more. (well, them and some family members, of course)

All the rest of 'em, well... they're just going off the superficial signals I give them.

Same as the men. Same as the dogs and cats and birds and any other living organism that wants to get a read on you (whether you will feed it, kick it, ignore it, etc.). We live in a universe of imperfect information; you're going off her immediate appearance, and she's going off yours.

If you want a different reception, change the signals you put out there.

Chase
 

trashKENNUT

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Chase,

BIGBOSS, YEAY :)


:(

The first few paragraphs, Are you indirectly implying what you said before? :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMjQ3hA9mEA

Chase said:
The most powerful people in the world get treated like second class citizens by all sorts of people. Many Americans called Barack Obama a weakling, a homosexual, and a terrorist. Many other Americans now call Donald Trump a bully, a racist, and an idiot. Both these men were/are President of the U.S.A.

Thank you for highlighting this. Caught me offguard.

Reminds me of this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5viz1JLXKgA (Trump with feminist)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6A8TiUpKDVg (Obama responds to hecklers at speech)

Chase said:
The easiest way to deal with this at an emotional level is to internalize that you are hiding your power level. e.g. "Ha, this chick thinks I am some ordinary corporate stooge. Shows how perceptive SHE is! I have her totally fooled."

This is easy to do when you are a man with many sides to yourself, only one of which most people ever see.

Thank u man.

Oh they don't know. :)

Chase said:
Riddle me this,

Finally, Yes. Chase calls me out. LOVE IT.

Chase said:
Do you have any different emotions toward these two women, and do you treat them different in any way?

Yes, I have different emotions towards this two women. I am a guy. Common... But i don't treat them differently. And this is where i believe you and me will reach the same conclusion later on, which is what is the meaning of "treatment", the definition, the criteria and barrier of entry.

Perhaps Zac bullshits to Chase that he treats ugly girls like goddess but actually it's more shitty.

I have dated ugly women last year. All my life, i have tried to not treat ugly women differently from the women i like. I have to show superiority to ugly girl friends. I only started to be more asshole only in recent years, and i still lapse.

But i learn the world is not what i think, nor do they care about how i think the world is or should be. Yes, you are right.

Chase said:
Or, if you don't like it at a more macro level, then help solve the problem: how do you move humanity to a system of more perfect information, where prospective mates can evaluate each other on richer, truer signals, rather than the poor and largely indirect signals they're forced to rely on at present?

I will admit i have been very bitchy about this because i don't know how. And i think that's your point too. We all don't know how. Sure, we can try and that's up to skill. and probabilities. Life's hard.

Chase said:
At least for me, I am far more concerned what people think about me once they deeply know me than what they think when they hardly do.

Let me throw back a riddle at you.

Are you implying that most people do not "think"? which is what you implying (what they think when they hardly do) or i do not know you enough?

Because let me say this.

All my life, i always have a certain line that i do not allow most people to cross. I build relationships based on sand/ideas/superficial/not allowing people to connect with me. and recently it dawns on me that i never allowed anyone to connect to me. When they give me eyecontact, after many months, i would shrug away or shy away because i didn't trust them.

Also because i needed to earn or make them love me. So why should i allow them to know me easily? This is also my mistake and probably most men and women is because we never teach social dynamics that makes us vulnerable to others but also let them see parts of us and making a journey out of ourselves, because once i revealed myself, people kind of 'okay, i know him'. I never let them fight for me, which ironically coincides with sex and women and how women learn this phenomenon.


Chase said:
If you want a different reception, change the signals you put out there.

I'm waiting for you to respond to me. lolx. I am throwing a riddle back at you. :)

Zac
 

trashKENNUT

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Regal,

Regal Tiger said:
Even by my own family while I was younger I was disposable. It's only when I'm an adult that people actually help me, kinda weird.

That family thing though..

Regal Tiger said:
Nobody gives a shit when one of us die.

Yea, exactly.

-

Cacc,

Cacc said:
empathy solves all othering :)

But the world does not revolve around what i think and what you think........

Zac
 

Chase

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Zac-

ZacAdam said:
The first few paragraphs, Are you indirectly implying what you said before? :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMjQ3hA9mEA

Ha. I do like that quote / bit, although of course it's exaggerated in Jurassic Park. The odds that all-female dinosaurs would happen to have some sex-switching ability picked up from West African frogs during DNA rebuilding is pretty low. In that case, life would probably not find a way.

But overall at the macro scale, I tend to believe life in general is pretty good at finding ways.

That's not the same as what I opened my post with though :)

ZacAdam said:
Yes, I have different emotions towards this two women. I am a guy. Common... But i don't treat them differently. And this is where i believe you and me will reach the same conclusion later on, which is what is the meaning of "treatment", the definition, the criteria and barrier of entry.

Well, that's you!

Do you ever meet women who are polite to you, even though they aren't interested? I would guess you do :)

Likewise, women meet men who are rude and disrespectful toward them too. Different people are different, and will receive you in different ways.

No matter how you treat other people, you will find that some other people treat you the same way, and some other people do not. Some other people might treat you better than you treat them. Some other people might treat you worse. This is just how people are; they are varied and diverse. If you don't like people who treat you worse, take steps to insulate yourself from that. Change your social circle, change your job, find environments that are less toxic than whatever environment you're in now that's bad for you.

Also, the things you regard as disrespectful / bad treatment are tied to your point of reference. If I meet a cute girl who acts snobby / behaves like she is above me, I think it's cute and consider her a bit more of a challenge. I know some guys who exclusively date girls like this; any girl who isn't this way they regard as "too easy" or "too low value."

If she isn't cute, and she's rude, I figure it's just a defense mechanism (auto-rejection).

This article discusses my feelings on this more fully:

She May be a Bitch to You… But She’s a Pussycat for Me

How's your attainability, by the way?

As you recall, people will be rude to you if they think they can't get what they want from you... simply to protect their own egos!

ZacAdam said:
Let me throw back a riddle at you.

Are you implying that most people do not "think"? which is what you implying (what they think when they hardly do) or i do not know you enough?

Not at all. I'm stating they do think!

However, their thoughts are based on imperfect information.

That is to say, they are drawing the best conclusions they can draw, based on the information they have available (then run through the filters of their own life experiences, personalities, and points of view).

If I tell you Heather is 27, okay-looking, has a job at a bank, and thinks she is funny but isn't, you'll think she's probably not that great, based on that information.

So you go to meet her for whatever reason I've asked you to meet her (maybe to deliver something I asked if you could drop off while you were in the neighborhood), expecting to be bored or uninterested by this plain-sounding woman.

If you then meet her, discover Heather is stunning, works in M&A, and that you find her sense of humor delightful, now suddenly she seems like a completely different person to you.

It isn't that you did not think before. You just arrived at the best conclusion you could, based on the information you received about this person.

Change the information, and you change the impression... which then changes the reception (by a little or a lot, depending on a variety of factors).

ZacAdam said:
All my life, i always have a certain line that i do not allow most people to cross. I build relationships based on sand/ideas/superficial/not allowing people to connect with me. and recently it dawns on me that i never allowed anyone to connect to me. When they give me eyecontact, after many months, i would shrug away or shy away because i didn't trust them.

You're almost certainly a low-attainability guy then.

Which is going to impact how people treat you (i.e., they will close themselves off to you, to protect their egos from any damage you might do to them).

ZacAdam said:
Also because i needed to earn or make them love me. So why should i allow them to know me easily? This is also my mistake and probably most men and women is because we never teach social dynamics that makes us vulnerable to others but also let them see parts of us and making a journey out of ourselves, because once i revealed myself, people kind of 'okay, i know him'. I never let them fight for me, which ironically coincides with sex and women and how women learn this phenomenon.

A lot of guys who learn this stuff go through this process.

They close themselves off when younger, to protect their egos from rejection / disinterest.

As they get better, they become more appealing people, whom others are more attracted to and want to be around more.

Eventually they reach the point where the primary barrier between themselves and others is the wall they erected, originally to protect them from harm.

Now that same wall protects them from happiness, good feelings, connection, and love.

Walls keep stuff out. Not just bad stuff, but good stuff too.

At some point, once your externals are good enough, it becomes important to tear that wall down.

Sure, it'll open you back up to the nastiness of some humans. But if you've improved enough, these people are pretty easy to ignore, since you get so much good stuff from so many other people. The nasty few become irrelevant to you; you're too busy with all the other fantastic people in your life.

Chase
 

Ambiance

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@Chase

Can you do an article specifically about tearing down those barriers? Forgive me if you already have one designed to address that. I know your Be The Lightbringer post is similar, and the first of your Finding Love at first Sight articles...

A
 

trashKENNUT

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Chase,

Chase said:
That's not the same as what I opened my post with though :)

-.-

Guess i need to figure it out. I can always derive many lessons.

Chase said:
Also, the things you regard as disrespectful / bad treatment are tied to your point of reference. If I meet a cute girl who acts snobby / behaves like she is above me, I think it's cute and consider her a bit more of a challenge. I know some guys who exclusively date girls like this; any girl who isn't this way they regard as "too easy" or "too low value."

I used to date many of this type of girls.

They pretty much plain jane. They only have age on their side, often. Otherwise, they are just meh. Way too much energy for low returns. But learn Girlschase and you pretty much can get this type of girls easier, if a person likes this type of girls

Chase said:
How's your attainability, by the way?

There is only so many people i can save, Chase.

You can point that perhaps i have not try hard or be innovative in increasing my attainability, and i will heed your advice. but i can't save everyone for little to no returns. Sounds like an asshole eh when really i get flaked just as much.

Not to mention how value imbalances between me and you, here. Nooooooo!

Not putting words in your mouth but yea.

Chase said:
You're almost certainly a low-attainability guy then.

Which is going to impact how people treat you (i.e., they will close themselves off to you, to protect their egos from any damage you might do to them).

I think I need to describe you what happen really.

Chase, have you ever wonder that i might be born a meek guy that people just do not like me when i was young (i got that feeling a lot when i was young) and i did not know why....... only to grow older and more good looking but your family and friends kind of hate/dislike who you become because you not suppose to be "better" even though you never left them?


Can you please please consider that? Because that description above, this is who i am. I ask for no sympathy. You might be shock at this statement above.

I'm not asking you to treat me special for this topic but that's real as i can tell. I simply figuring life out. I do feel like a hot girl. Everyone thinks she has all the answers while guys try to get my number and other girls always fight each other. Stripping of value while pretending to be negative, superficial, etc. That's society's new technique.

Chase said:
Sure, it'll open you back up to the nastiness of some humans. But if you've improved enough, these people are pretty easy to ignore, since you get so much good stuff from so many other people. The nasty few become irrelevant to you; you're too busy with all the other fantastic people in your life.

I remember telling you or Girlschase board that few years ago, i had different social circles and all of them treat me differently. One was bad. One was good. and the rest were objectives (work, volunteer, etc) or values we share.

It was like shocking to see that i don't need to stick to one group of friends that dislike/don't share values as me but it made me realize that i can't learn reality that way. Also, everyone is tribal. The pretty girl in a group, her friends might be youtubers and she's a youtuber but we all still the same fuckers, the same sperm that claims credit when other sperms distract the egg.

IT's a matter of values and objectives and the one who can bullshit better, gets the girl.

And perhaps why i can understand the liberal left wing outrage. It's because it is like using ethics and basedline facts and morality as persuasion tactics to get sales.



Zac
 

trashKENNUT

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Chase,

Using morality, ethics as persuasion to get sales/get what you want. That drives society crazy


Especially because they don't have a basedline to operate. Thus they always moving, getting frustrated. In sales, that's the whole plan.... but at a society level, you see where we are today.

Zac
 

trashKENNUT

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Thank You BIGBOSS.

The latest article gives me ease, But......... :)

Zac
 

BigPapa

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This is a great topic :)

just wanted to give my 2 cents And compare it to the business world :)

in the business world when you are at the top everyone wants you to piss on them and they will lick the ground and be thankful for it . In the moment you will not be on top anymore they will start making fun of you ,be rude , have attitude . But the paradox is that you are the same guy in both cases .
This is how we people are wired to react , at least most of us :)

For me personally it only matters if you have a good heart or not ,something that is lacking in this world .I talk in the same way to the cashier at the grocery Store as I talk to my boss , dentist or doctor .

This is a great exercise though to know to whom you can open up to and with whom just not spend that much time with .

When it comes to girls it is like in 50 cent 21 questions “ if ain”t rap cause I flipped burgers at burger king would you be ashamed to tell your friends you feelin” me ? “
 

DarkKnight

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There is one easy way to cope with these dark thoughts of yours. And that is to become more selfish. Let me explain.

We are upset that we are disposable in one way or another, but apart from a few people we tend to make the same swift value judgement about others. Instead of resisting the idea of being judged as in the position you are, it is better to embrace this and make this work for you. You cannot take things personal from natural laws. Be a little bit more ego-centric, but in a pragmatic way. This doesn't mean you have to go full psychopath or sociopath, stay responsible and a decent human being. However a little realism is good to embrace instead of resisting it. Because you pondering this subject IS a form of resistance. It won;t help you or any other. Life is not fair, it never has been.

But this is not something to be bitter about. It just is.
 

trashKENNUT

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I bump this because someone liked my post.

Don't worry my dear people. I'm not bitter. :)
I have things that I am upset about. Everyone is.

But I understand why people think I am bitter.

Basically, the audience got fooled again. I got you guys wrapped around my fingers.

Anyway.....

My whole objective of being at Girlschase has always been the same since day 1. To start the conversation on the conversation. Not about me.

Because Girlschase started have conversations that no one started. The micro nuance.

That's what got me here in the first place. I have always been the same. Keep poking to stir more river of information.

Anyway, my time is limited here! I got to go!
 

trashKENNUT

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I revisit this.

If you are winning, this is a dark thought. If you are losing and on the verge of changing your life, you are seeing this as honest, fact.

There can be only one Jesus. One WWF Champion. :)

You are right, DK.

It's nothing personal. :)

I don't want to coward into doing something less than what I can do better but let's see how it goes from here.

So keep your girlfriends and wifes SAFE people.

They are mine now :)
 
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