I keep missing/not taking advantage of escalation windows

orkie123

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Last night, I hosted drinking games gathering/party at my apartment. It's always tough estimating who will come and who won't as I try to keep the numbers to about 10-15 as my apartment is small and with equal ratio or more girls. As it happened yesterday, a few hours in, many of the girls came and we were around 20 ppl, of which a few couples, and realistically only I and 1 other guy were single. Vibe was great and everyone was having a good time (apart from my new elderly neighbours, oops). We then left for a busy bar and finally to a club.

My social proof was through the roof but it almost makes it worse that I can't take advantage of it. What I want to be is that cool guy that can even take a girl to his bedroom there and then or when we go out after to a bar/club to be able to use that social proof...

Here are a couple of opportunities/escalation windows missed.

Juicy Tatas girl - She did not go out with her main friendship group to come to my mini party. The 2-3 times we met before, I had the feeling she may be attracted to me. She was close to me the entire night initiating convos. She's decent looking, but as horrible as this sounds, I would only want to set her up as a backup. The problem is, I haven't got a clue how to do that without it being obvious. In the end, after me not making a move for the zilionth time, she left the bar and went back to her main friendship group in a different bar.

DTF Girl - I think I friendzoned myself here from a while ago somewhat on purpose, but twice she asked me out of a lot of other of our friends to go out for a smoke when we were at the bar. She's shared stories and basically if a semi-decent guy chats her up, she will go home with him. Is very chilled and non-judgmental. The problem here is my inaction from before, and also that if I do hint at doing something, because I'm not sure if I want it myself then I come off as "Well I'm not really sure but if you make it easy for me I'll take it". Nothing exciting or charismatic about that. I think in reality it's probably good that I don't do anything with her as she is becoming too much part of my main social circle in this city.

Cute Piercings Girl - When we went to the bar, at some point I noticed another group that I know a few of the people there. They were all sat down in a corner and a girl I had met once before immediately squeezed through everyone to come talk to me. The first time we had mostly spoken at a club, and again I had the feeling she liked me but I didn't bite the trigger. Didn't take advantage and ejected due to not wanting to commit. I reckon, both the first time we met and last night, if I had just done 1 or 2 compliance tests to isolate and then invited her back home, she would have came.

Hot Insecure Girl - A couple of months back, a female friend invited me to go out for a drink as she was having bf troubles. She then invited this girl as well and we ended up going out out midweek. Me and this girl got too drunk while my friend left the club early, we were having lots of fun (seeing the pics we took together) and my friend even thought we must have at least kissed when I saw her next. We had added each other on IG and she liked my stories for a couple of weeks. However, I didn't msg her. I don't really know why - partially just assumed I will see her again via my friend, partially because she was going away for a few weeks soon. Anyway, we met again in a social group setting about 5-6 weeks after that night and even though she was friendly, I could feel distance. Almost like - "I gave you so many indicators and you ignored them and now you want to do something". But she later told me she recently started sleeping with a colleague who was stringing her along while she "wants a relationship". Anyway she was back to being more open with me last night but after a girl tells me about current intimate experiences, while we havent slept together yet, it makes me feel weird making a move lol.


Then some of us went to a small club but vibe wasn't as bad as I expected it to be. There I had a few more potentially missed escalation windows with DTF and hot insecure Girls but also two others:

Golden Hair Girl - In the club they had these fake flower decorations. So I took a few and placed them on my ears and on a couple of my friends. This girl that was nearby noticed and came to try and take it off my ear.. Anyway, I playfully pushed her hand away, but she didn't seem to like that. I spoke to her for a bit but her initial enthusiasm died pretty quickly. I was reading Alek's night game articles and I think I was focusing too much on rapport too early rather than keeping the high energy vibe. But I struggle to set sexual frames in night game more than I do on dates. I think dates are a little more structured so it makes sense what I need to do and when. In Night game, things can progress really fast or even skip stages and somehow I always end up doing the wrong thing - either too slow when I need to be fast or too fast when I need to slow down.

My Perfect Type Girl - I think she was friend of Golden Hair Girl. By now they kind of joined our group and this girl had already talked to one of the guys for a while but nothing happened. At one point she was lingering close to me so I stroke up a conversation but it tanked even quicker. Again, what I said was more in lines of building rapport on a commonality rather than getting the exciting energy vibe and she moved away pretty quickly.

At that point I was pretty depleted mood wise, and told my friends I was going home. Hot Insecure girl tried to make me stay as the plan was to go to a bigger, better club but I was adamant as my mood was gone. In retrospect, I probably should have gone as I like that club, social proof would have still been high, and it's a club that has spots where the music isn't as loud where you can approach girls easier.

Anyway, my question after all this is - What do you think I should focus on improving first and how? I almost feel I need to go out for a few months with a natural/coach and get some immediate feedback as while I usually do find at least some of my weak points, it's after the night is over and next time it's something else that doesn't go well lol.
 

Chase

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@orkie123,

Start inviting girls to do stuff, man.

It is THE biggest thing:



One of the biggest differences between guys who get a lot of attention and guys who get a lot of lays is asking girls to do stuff:

  • "Hey, wanna go sit and talk?"
  • "Let's go for a walk, just us two."
  • "Hey, you hungry or thirsty? Cool, let's hit up a diner."
  • "We should grab a nightcap."
  • "How about we go chill? It's too crowded here."
  • "Hey, let's dance."

Etc.

Start inviting girls to do things with you. You will be surprised how often they say yes. You will be surprised how happy they are that you asked.

You will be surprised how much farther you get in your interactions, how much sooner, how much more easily.

It's an eye-opener. Once you start doing it, you will smack yourself in the head you did not start sooner.

Give yourself time limits to take action if you're having trouble sticking to it:


You can do it -- it's all just habit.

Cheers,
Chase
 

Derek da man

Cro-Magnon Man
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because I'm not sure if I want it myself

This is your problem - your inner self.
Do you want to take her home for sex or are you looking for the right girl for a relationship.

not wanting to commit
I would only want to set her up as a backup.
Same thing again.

If you want to take her home, or anywhere else, for fast sex them you need to isolate and escalate and accept that you will deal with the consequences later. That may mean letting her down and not moving to a relationship and that may make you feel bad. But it is only at that point you can either move her to a "back up" or move her to a "main" or let her go. You then have choices.

Being the typical "Seducer" is mainly what this form talks about but there's nothing wrong with improving your skills and abilities to simply get the girls YOU want and that may not be as many as a seducer may want.

Look at yourself first, decide what you want, then be confident in going after it. At the moment you're not sure about any of it.
 

orkie123

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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@orkie123,

Start inviting girls to do stuff, man.

It is THE biggest thing:



One of the biggest differences between guys who get a lot of attention and guys who get a lot of lays is asking girls to do stuff:

  • "Hey, wanna go sit and talk?"
  • "Let's go for a walk, just us two."
  • "Hey, you hungry or thirsty? Cool, let's hit up a diner."
  • "We should grab a nightcap."
  • "How about we go chill? It's too crowded here."
  • "Hey, let's dance."

Etc.

Start inviting girls to do things with you. You will be surprised how often they say yes. You will be surprised how happy they are that you asked.

You will be surprised how much farther you get in your interactions, how much sooner, how much more easily.

It's an eye-opener. Once you start doing it, you will smack yourself in the head you did not start sooner.

Give yourself time limits to take action if you're having trouble sticking to it:


You can do it -- it's all just habit.

Cheers,
Chase
This actually hits the nail on the head as to what I haven't been doing enough of, and Derek's reply is the main reason I haven't been doing it.

I get so conflicted on what I want and overthink stuff. I keep telling myself, just do it but then I find an excuse not to do it.

A bit of that is - I want higher quality, but to get higher quality I need to get better at game. To get better at game and have more confidence, I need to practise and not feel weird about flirting/sleeping with girls I may not want be in a relationship in.

I think I'm going to set my next challenges as:

- Go for the girl I like the most first, and try to invite her to do things asap and escalate until I hear a no.
- If she says no, tactfully move on to another girl and if there is a chance, try again later
- Aim to approach more of the girls I like so that I have less doubts due to quality, and also spend more time approaching/going out as I think 1-2 times a week isn't enough
 

fog

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hey i had something similar start happening to me before when i got on prozac. specifically, modulating my emotional investment towards the girl.

girls would be ready to move forward even before i would. and it was because i was really strong at generating investment from the girls...while feeling virtually no investment towards her. which would cause me to run into these walls of internal resistance, similar to the ones dereck identified in your thinking patterns. she'd wanna move further, id resist and eject.

i lost a lot of sets like that while on prozac

Anyways, I found out I could fix this by getting into a specific state close to the time the girl is showing me she wants to move forward. Like I know my resistances are going to come up at certain points, so I can get into that state to counteract the resistance and to start acting exactly like how a guy would act if he has matching investment in her. For me, I found out it was more of a DECISIVE, GO FOR WHAT YOU WANT state. Like “lets do this!”

now when i got off prozac, it was like the resistances were never there and it was way easier to grow my own investment along with the girls.
 
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MarioTheDom

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You need to develop the "killer instinct" or the "mamba mentality" as you wanna call it.

It start with - what do you really want, being in touch with that and then have no fear / shame / doubts in relentlessly pursuing it.

You want to bang a girl in the toilet stall but she rejects you? amen, another one.

You want to take her home but she says no. onto the next one.

What you want and let your needs coming up are the most important part
 

orkie123

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hey i had something similar start happening to me before when i got on prozac. specifically, modulating my emotional investment towards the girl.

girls would be ready to move forward even before i would. and it was because i was really strong at generating investment from the girls...while feeling virtually no investment towards her. which would cause me to run into these walls of internal resistance, similar to the ones dereck identified in your thinking patterns. she'd wanna move further, id resist and eject.

i lost a lot of sets like that while on prozac

Anyways, I found out I could fix this by getting into a specific state close to the time the girl is showing me she wants to move forward. Like I know my resistances are going to come up at certain points, so I can get into that state to counteract the resistance and to start acting exactly like how a guy would act if he has matching investment in her. For me, I found out it was more of a DECISIVE, GO FOR WHAT YOU WANT state. Like “lets do this!”

now when i got off prozac, it was like the resistances were never there and it was way easier to grow my own investment along with the girls.
Appreciate sharing your experience. I'm not on any medicine that could affect my mood, but my own internal struggles and limiting beliefs. Outcome is the same though.

Inexperience is also contributing to this. I just had a 2nd date with a girl and she's def put me in the provider category. The problem is, I would only like to do things casual with her so again I don't feel like putting in the effort. If I had disqualified myself as a provider earlier on and been more forward, it would have either led to something happening or we would go our separate ways.

You need to develop the "killer instinct" or the "mamba mentality" as you wanna call it.

It start with - what do you really want, being in touch with that and then have no fear / shame / doubts in relentlessly pursuing it.

You want to bang a girl in the toilet stall but she rejects you? amen, another one.

You want to take her home but she says no. onto the next one.

What you want and let your needs coming up are the most important part
I would love to be able to do this. It is mostly limiting beliefs where certain things "don't feel like myself". E.g. I can't see myself going up to a girl in a festival, getting good vibes and leading her to the toilet to bang. To be fair, that's not something I probably want to do most of the time for real. But I do want to get the possibility of being able to, should I wish to.

Still, with my ex, I was able to lead her to do a lot of public sex and acts, and I loved it. So it's not that I cannot do it, it's knowing how to do it with girls I've just met.
 

Derek da man

Cro-Magnon Man
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I just had a 2nd date with a girl and she's def put me in the provider category.
Another of your limiting beliefs. The implication being that if she sees you as a provider you can't get her. You can, it's just it will take longer and as you are already on date 2 you should be planning to bang her on date 3 anyway so move things forward. Unless you feel you are already looking ahead to knowing you will then probably let her go after a few more dates.

So she already sees you as provider, therefore she probably wants to keep you so if she agrees to date 3 she's already thinking she's likely to give you sex - you just need to play the game and make sure your logistics are right.

You just need to live with your fear of letting her down and making her feel bad, which in turn makes you feel bad.
 

MarioTheDom

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As it is already being pointed out, your limiting beliefs are affecting your self concept

So some thinking to do amigo :)
 

Chase

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@orkie123,

A few recommended reads for you, given these limiting beliefs:




But yeah, main thing is getting out of the indecision loop.

You need to be deciding, then acting, and learn to shut off all the over-thinking and deliberation.

The first real step I took in my journey toward self-improvement was taking a look at less intelligent guys I knew who seemed a lot happier than me and saying to myself, "If ignorance is bliss, and dumb guys have all the fun, I need to learn how to think and behave like a dumb guy if I want to get out of this deep rut I'm in."

The more you're doing and the less you're thinking, the more experiential life becomes, and the more rewarding and educational those experiences become. You can always think about them after the fact, when it's reflection time -- but you shouldn't be doing that in the moment.

Chase
 

orkie123

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I'm getting closer to the root of my problems thanks to you all and here's my updated summary:

- I know which girls I wouldn't mind getting in a relationship with almost straight away. The main things are: How hot they are, and the type of girl they are. I want to experience a variety of different girls so that I know what I like and what I don't and that I have the skills to handle them. For example, the extremely feminine ukrainian girl that expects me to be a "macho" guy and even pay for everything. The social queen who goes out every night and flirts with guys even though she is in a relationship. The really quiet girl who has little sexual experience and is very reserved about anything other than vanilla sex. And of course my usual type which is a sexually open girl who doesn't like social media/attention too much and is open to a life of travelling and adventures.

- The above doesn't imply that I will want a relationship with a girl who fits a description. If we can be just ONS or FWB, then even better. But if she hints at wanting a relationship, it wouldn't turn me off because I will be genuine with my myself that I would be open to the possibility. However if we have sex and my view changes, then it wasn't meant to be and I can have a clear conscience.

- If a girl is in the group that I don't want a relationship with, anything she says or does that implies she may be looking for a relationship completely puts me off. Sometimes it's things that don't even need to mean anything right now - like if she talks about having kids in the future on first few dates. This is so strong that just 1 implication could cancel out many indicators of the opposite. For example, "hot insecure girl" and "DTF" I know have both slept casually recently, but the way they have talked to me gave me these hints of relationship vibe.

There are two main solutions and it's all about improving my game:

- Get better at game so that I can identify and attract girls who fit what I want

- Get better at game so that I can disqualify myself properly as BF/provider for girls who I just want to fuck without this guilty conscience or conflict and drama aversion

Another of your limiting beliefs. The implication being that if she sees you as a provider you can't get her. You can, it's just it will take longer and as you are already on date 2 you should be planning to bang her on date 3 anyway so move things forward. Unless you feel you are already looking ahead to knowing you will then probably let her go after a few more dates.

So she already sees you as provider, therefore she probably wants to keep you so if she agrees to date 3 she's already thinking she's likely to give you sex - you just need to play the game and make sure your logistics are right.

You just need to live with your fear of letting her down and making her feel bad, which in turn makes you feel bad.
Here's the latest update on this girl as we met two more times, somewhat by accident:

-3rd "date" We went to the same social event by chance, both of us didn't like how loud it was, so I suggested to her we go somewhere else. She agreed. We had 1 more drink then went back to my place for 3rd time. Previously, she had stopped any kino escalation apart from social touch so I was a little more bold and held my hand on her thigh. First time she laughed it off and moved away. 2nd time she moved my hand away, 3rd time she said she was leaving. I wasn't calibrated enough to slow down and work up the escalation but that's something I can improve on.

However, the next day I texted her as if nothing big deal had happened and she reciprocated. She then asked me to meet up to talk as she is leaving the city for a week and basically told me she didn't like how forward I was and that she wants to continue seeing eachother but to take it slower.

And this is my problem. I know I don't want a relationship with her and even if she is just shy and wouldn't mind just being FWB with a connection. I do like her as a person and she is very fun but just isn't my type. So what do I do now? Pretend? Make it 100% obvious I don't want a relationship when we next meet and I'm only open to casual stuff? Or what I'm most likely to do is to friendzone myself and slowly ghost out interest.

Last night, I also met a really hot eastern european girl. I know I wouldn't have the above troubles with her because she is hot enough for me to lower my conscience threshold with her. So I don't even think I'm doing the above to be some kind of moral person. I think it's more simple. I rationalise that with some girls, the potential drama is not worth the experience/fun I'm going to have. The good thing with that is, getting better at game as above should help with all these issues.
@orkie123,

A few recommended reads for you, given these limiting beliefs:

Chase

Thank you Chase, these articles do help. Reading the first article on standards and remembering my past FWBs, I actually have relatively low standards as long as I know they are okey with just being FWB. I really enjoyed my time with 2 girls who were at best "5s" but were completely content on the idea of just sex from the start.

"The problem that this man encounters is if his internal “scoring system” is set up in a way that “she wants it and I could get it” is almost equal to “I got it.”"

The above line is me 110%. Which is another reason why I lose interest on girls who I wouldn't consider relationship material if I get even a glimpse of potential drama over this. It's been a massive reason for my ED issues: If a girl has given me indicators of relationship who I wouldn't want to but we still end up in bed, then I can struggle to get hard because, I've already received the pleasure of the seduction. I could have been stone hard when she first touched my leg in the bar, and now that I "got it" in bed, the pleasure is gone. This was why I also really enjoyed sex with my ex when things were good. Because I actually wanted a relationship with her, I could maintain better erections and have much smaller refractory periods. Even with previous FWBs, it now makes sense why with certain girls, I had easier time getting erections. Because I was more in the moment knowing that there is no potential drama/hurt feelings and so I actually enjoyed sex for the sensation and was less in my head.

I'll try out the suggestions on becoming more of a hedonist.

As for indecision. In most areas of my live I'm very decisive and have become pretty good at this. I decided to use a somewhat "dirty" leverage to get a massive salary boost knowing I risk losing my job. I decided to quit a job 7 days into it because I got a better opportunity 1 year and half ago. I decided to move countries within months of graduating. I don't have trouble telling people "We should go to this restaurant or do this activity" and it's also why I've started hosting some drinking parties. I like being in the uncomfortable zone of having to risk people not wanting to come and also of making the decision of where we will go out afterwards. It's not something that I want to be for everything, but I'm exposing myself so that I can do it if I need to.

When it comes to indecision on which girl to try with, I can get better but the indecision comes more from the other problems. E.g. If I solve the mechanical vs hedonist or have the game to be able to pull off higher quality girls more often, etc then I think the indecision problems will disappear.

As always, fascinated with how quickly you can identify a person's issues over the internet and have articles ready that describe the issue and steps to improve it in hand. In a way, just confirming to myself that i'm not some strange human but have problems that many others have faced before makes it less of a problem.
 
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Derek da man

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First time she laughed it off and moved away
This was a warning that she wasn't excited enough by you, your presence, etc
2nd time she moved my hand away
Now alarm bells are ringing in her head that you aren't calibrated enough to be able to read her so she's putting up a wall as she doesn't want to go anyfurther with someone who may not take no for an answer later.
3rd time she said she was leaving.
This was beacuse you didn't read her the first 2 times.

I wasn't calibrated enough to slow down and work up the escalation but that's something I can improve on.
This is something you need to work on now, not later. Learn to read a girls body language. You should be able to spot signs of interest accross a room by the sparkle and focus of her eyes on you. You need to be able to read her body and conversation when chatting, is she comfortable standing close or sitting close? If she is casually put you hand on her leg or back just for a couple of seconds and take it away. Read her body langauge response, was she comfortable, of not you need to warm her up and excite her more before doing it again, not continuing as you did.

Once you make her uncomfortable once you have to re-build basic comfort again before you even attempt the same action. As you did it a second time you were onto a downward spiral. If it fails once sometimes it's best to move her or "do" something to re-arrange you locaiton. Either a new position in a bar or just get up to get something then sit the other side of her if your at home or something. You need to reset the positioning to reset the vibe. I get up and get an old fasion photo album from a draw with some old fun pics, put it on her lap and sit close to her, bit it doesn't matter what you do to get up it's about where you reposition yourself.

Try starting on reading girls and getting them invested and turning them on before thinking of escalating too far.
 

orkie123

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Going to revive this thread as I needed to re-read the advice.

Yesterday at a party hostel, I managed to make a good impression on most people, had at least 3-4 girls that were giving serious iois and I managed to achieve pretty much nothing 🤣

As soon as I went to common area I deep dived one of the volunteers and did all kinds of cold reads. All of them were astrology type bullshit but she ate it up. I thought she was just being a kind staff member, but she was very compliant from the start. I.e. lets sit down on the couch to do a hand read, lets go get another drink etc.

Later she told 2 other volunteer girls to find me while I was in a group. I hadnt even met them yet and they didnt say a word just pointed at their hands hahaha. Only one seemed vaguely interested in me though. I initially joked they need to pay me and went to get another drink before properly talking to them, and I think I crossed the boundary between confident and asshole arrogant which wasnt ideal.

Later when the party grp went to a bar, it was me and 2 other cool guys who kickstarted the fun vibes. One of my "skills" thats both good but a little monkey clown is making a mini mosh pit? A circle and pushing everyone to show their best moves. Works wonders to get the mood going but as I talk/dance with most girls, I lose direction.

At that point things peaked for me, then I did too much clown stuff where I noticed one of the girls who was giving me ioi's lose interest.

So I went out, gave myself some fresh air, decided no more stupid dancing and though, im only going to try it with 2 of the girls that had given me ioi's. Went back, little chit chat and then I asked the one I liked most to get a drink. Then I asked her to go outside to the smoking area. Unfortunately, a guy who was also interested in her was just chilling there so it was a little awkward. Then her friend and another girl came and it killed the mood.

When I asked her to go to smoking area I said "I want to get to know you better" this was a response to something she had said earlier but I cant remember what.

Anyway she came but then she also told me " I want you to know im not looking for any flirting, I just enjoy having fun just to be clear". I think this was a shit test but I didnt properly get a chance to respond as the other guy joined the convo.

To get out of the situation, I said lets go and chill by the beach which got rid of the guy but the 2 other girls including her travel friend also came.

In the end, after chilling way too long at the beach, I managed to set up going for ice cream with the hot girl for the next day but I think 95% she will flake.

Im glad I course corrected from tanking into complete clown shit, but still my indecision is killing me. I should have started inviting girls who gave iois to places where we could fuck even before we left the hostel and just cycled through 1 by 1 until someone was up for it.

This was one of those hostels where people go to fuck so with the social momentum I built, I think it would have had decent chance of success. A rejection is better than bleeding the interest dry anyway.

There was a point at the bar where a 6-6.5 girl just wanted to get fucked. I imagine someone did in the end but i honestly spend about 2 mins just wondering if I should give up on other girl and tell this girl lets go back. Wish I did... Need to wake up the beast in me.
 

orkie123

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Start inviting girls to do stuff, man.

It is THE biggest thing:

Its crazy how this simple advice is so powerful.

Bumping this thread just to say that after hearing this advice from Chase, Teevster and few others, its finally starting to sink in.

Yesterday I pulled a girl who came to another of my house parties that had previously flaked on me multiple times as she started dating some other guy.

The number of invitations:

1) invited her to my house party even though she had previously flaked on that too
2) invited her to go the same club as my main group which she rejected as she wanted to go elsewhere first
3) invited her to go with us to a bar first before we go separete clubs. In the bar we all changed our minds and decided to go to another bar first.

That bar had a massive line, so i invited now a much smaller grp back to mine for a few more drinks before we go to a club.

4) at the club, invited her to do shots just us 2
5) invited her to go outside for fresh air and "because i want to tell you something but its too loud"
6) invited her to do shots again (was probably overkill)
7) invited her back to mine with a completely random plausible deniability which was so random but still worked
8) back at mine, no resistance whatsover.

She is going travelling long-term with the guy she is dating in a months time. They are not exclusive according to her but all the things I did were very little effort and if it wasnt for the "keep inviting girls to do stuff" ringing back of my head, I probably would have taken her telling me her travel plans at face value and never tried.

Inbetween all these, I also tried it on secretly with another girl who is often just teasing. Was more direct with her and even though she acted more interested, didnt seem to have intentions to pull through so didnt waste too much time on her.

Also invited a girl I had slept with once but was being tough to get on a 2nd time who was also part of the grp a couple of times and while she was interested, she was more focussed on partying and went to another club after the first bar. She may be down to meetup in a few days too though.
 

gameboy

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299
Thanks for the bump! Great read. This is something I'm also working on right now.

I've been advised to focus on getting compliance from girls I meet. I've been doing that, however in my opinion, it sounds much cooler and more natural to just invite her to do stuff, than to "get compliance".

It's not like I want to get something from her. I want to give her an experience that is mutually enjoyable for both of us. And I'm giving her my time, attention, and affection. And if the chemistry is right, potentially even my body, my friendship, and ultimately, love.

I find this a much more intuitive framing than to try and "get" compliance, or sex, from someone.

Oh and congrats for the pull -- sounds like you had a good time :)
 

StrayDog

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Feb 23, 2022
Messages
652
Thanks for the bump! Great read. This is something I'm also working on right now.

I've been advised to focus on getting compliance from girls I meet. I've been doing that, however in my opinion, it sounds much cooler and more natural to just invite her to do stuff, than to "get compliance".

It's not like I want to get something from her. I want to give her an experience that is mutually enjoyable for both of us. And I'm giving her my time, attention, and affection. And if the chemistry is right, potentially even my body, my friendship, and ultimately, love.

I find this a much more intuitive framing than to try and "get" compliance, or sex, from someone.

Oh and congrats for the pull -- sounds like you had a good time :)
I feel you on this, ultimately the aim is to share a genuine experience together. It is not about "getting" something from her. I guess when I talk about "getting compliance", it is more about "inviting her to invest in the connection."

That said, I think that the term compliance has a bit of a different dynamic to it than simply say "inviting her to hand you that book from the self"(which is also an invitation to share a moment together, which is also an invitation to accept your small requests, which is also an invitation to accept you as primarily leading the interaction), because it is also talking about frame, and her investing in a certain frame of how the two of you will relate to each other. Even still you could see it more as "inviting her to invest" and I agree, that is a far more hmmmm, inviting way to look at it. As really it is about collaboration, not control. Even if you are the one assuming a leadership position.

But yes totally. Being seductive is an invitation. It is inviting her to step into your frame, step into your world, and share the moment together in a genuine, passionate way.
 
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orkie123

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Feb 21, 2023
Messages
159
Thanks for the bump! Great read. This is something I'm also working on right now.

I've been advised to focus on getting compliance from girls I meet. I've been doing that, however in my opinion, it sounds much cooler and more natural to just invite her to do stuff, than to "get compliance".

It's not like I want to get something from her. I want to give her an experience that is mutually enjoyable for both of us. And I'm giving her my time, attention, and affection. And if the chemistry is right, potentially even my body, my friendship, and ultimately, love.

I find this a much more intuitive framing than to try and "get" compliance, or sex, from someone.

Oh and congrats for the pull -- sounds like you had a good time :)

Thanks man and I agree that it feels more natural when it is a mutual enjoyable experience but I do think a lot of seduction or even socialising techniques can seen a little forced or robotic when practicing them.

Take for example asking her to go outside so that we can hear each other. She was telling me something, and I had to lean to even have a chance of hearing (which isn't ideal) and still struggled. In the past, I wouldn't have been as bold to say - lets leave the group and go talk outside where we can hear each other better. But now that I've started internalising that it's cool to do that, it was easy and felt natural. Why shouldn't we go outside for 5 minutes so that we can share something interesting we have been talking about.

I think the weird thing is how natural a lot of seduction techniques are for girls themselves because they often have experienced them much more (at least compared to less experienced guys). Sometimes, when it all goes relatively well like this example, it feels like you should be able to do it every night haha. Obviously not the case and I had a lot of social proof and trust pre-built with the house party, but still, I've had many of the same situations where I didn't pull because of not following this simple advice.
 
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