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I need diverse commentary. This bothers me a lot from time to time.

trashKENNUT

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
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Nov 20, 2012
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6,551
Hi Guys,

I need diverse comments, notes and commentary. It seems the phrase, "it's nothing personal"... bothers me. Part of it is

- past religion background where i believe that there's more than enough to go around
- losing after believing in people for saying that they believe in this and that. Taking things at complete face value
- backstabbing directly
- backstabbing indirectly

and probably more. To me, I find that a lot of people have no fucking care whatsoever, and this is validated by research where "morals" only applies when the "value" that you want, is not threatened.

So yea... help me in my hypocrisy. ;) so i can lessen and manage it from now on.

Zac
 

trashKENNUT

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
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Messages
6,551
Wow, that's a reinforcement.
 
the right date makes getting her back home a piece of cake

PrettyDecent

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
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865
Hey man, didn't even see this until you bumped it up!

Are you saying that people won't respond to something if there isn't value at stake? I suppose this is so...unless people have an incentive to respond.

But yeah, feel free to clear it up with me if I'm wrong!

Nick
 

trashKENNUT

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
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Nick,

I found a research noted . "Morals" only applies when the "value" that you want or what you want, is not threatened. Which means to say, you would judge people for getting what they want, but if it is what you want, your "morals" flies off the window.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26138350 (i forgot the real article, should check my history.)

- selective morality
- moral disengagement

This is what i been trying to communicate to Chase for quite some time.

See this post. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14362&p=72791&hilit=camaraderie#p72791


dwph6x.jpg


Zac
 

Drck

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
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Messages
1,488
Zac,

My understanding is that you don't live in USA ...?

You know, people are different at other places. Different cultures, different religious believes, different values, different morals, different expectations from others.... Simply different...

IMO it is difficult for someone from different country to apply things that work in USA, just because for the above mentioned reasons. Seduction knowledge may make perfect sense, but does it work for you? If it doesn't, it may not be you, it may be the environment... You need to find out things that fit into the particular environment that you are in...

For example, I grew up in Eastern Europe, live in states, was some while in UK, was exposed to Latinas.... Those are simply what we can call here different groups of people.

Girls in essence are looking for two types of guys, the classical Alpha (fucks) and Beta (Bucks). With that being said, there is also lots of overlapping, it's just never black and white... At the same time, what works in Eastern Europe is different than what works in London, or on Latinas. It's little bit different with country girl vs girl who grew up in New York. You can be for instance more lax with white girls, but with Latinas you got to move your ass.

There are two ways to look at the same thing (seduction). Very simple way, or very complicated way (and of course lots of combinations and overlapping of these two)

Very complicated way is GC. You get lots of tools, you got to study and practice. It might take you years before you get good. For example, you get into female psychology, you learn to understand signs females give you, you learn to understand female behavior and how to approach them, and so on. You will be well developed seducer. In order for this approach to work you have to have great knowledge of women, you have to know lots of social interactions and you usually have to have lots of practice.

Very simple way is sort of assholish or Alphaish way. You have your solid frame, that is all you care about. You don't really care much about how girls think and react, you could care less about female psychology and understanding. You are out there to have fun, she is either reacting to you (so you move on) or she is giving you hard time (so you Next her). In order for this way to work you have to be masculine guy, you have to be 'The Man'. You can literally be a dummy as far as seduction goes, but you will still attract lots of women.

Then there is lots of intermediate ways. The problem with intermediate way is that guy has lots of knowledge but not enough practice, which usually results that he over-game the girl. She can feel that he is inexperienced, however at the same time she get that he has lots of understanding of female-male interaction. That triggers alarm in her mind, she might hang around for a while (just to see what's the deal with this guy) but she is not really interested sexually in him.

-------------------------

So, being congruent and honest is usually a good approach. We have to overcome our Ego, we have to find some humility. Why is that?

Because seduction knowledge raises your Ego. You think you can do better than other guys, perhaps you think you are better than other guys (who have no clue about seduction). You think you understand (and perhaps you do), but understanding is not enough. This very attitude may work against you, because girls see it differently.

So we have to overcome our Ego, we have to throw away our seduction knowledge. Girls don't care how much knowledge you have. They don't want to know. Girls care about if you can apply this knowledge.

In girl's eye you have certain Value. Let's call it Sexual Value. This overall value is summary of different things, for example:

* Do you fit into category that she is currently looking for, provider or lover? NSA?
* What is her overall level of slutiness or morals? Did she already sleep with 20 guys, or just 1? That matters because girls who slept with 20 guys requires different approach than inexperienced girl, which in translation means how good you are at convincing her to go with you
* How good you look, and/or how tall are you? That too matters, unless you have charming personality you will feel the difference, e.g. she will prefer guy who is 6 feet tall vs guy 5'4".
* If you are good at bed (experienced girls can FEEL it with interaction with you, perhaps within couple of minutes she simply knows)
* Are you at her level with finances, education, job? Overall career? That matters too, because if she feels that you are 2-3 levels above her she will not feel comfortably around you, she will feel inferior, not good enough... She may think she doesn't deserve you... Remember, many girls are insecure, if your value is too high she will fall into autorejection...
* And much more...
-----------------------

See, the above is quite frustrating. There are hundreds things to consider in order to "fit" one particular girl that you want, you need lots of skills. You can learn to "fit" the girl but it requires lots of time and effort. Or you can create a strong frame and let simply the girl "fit" you (as described above in the Alphaish approach). The inconvenience with having strong frame is that it requires some time for the girl to adjust to you (to your frame). Girls do however change, they want to fit into the man's frame, assuming that he is attractive... Giving enough time, she will change her believes, her values, and her opinions, just so she can be with you...

My point is, that you may not simply take things from USA and fit it in Asia (if that's where you live). Girls will react differently to your attempts than here, perhaps they don't expect such behavior...? If a girl from your culture has certain expectations from you, but you behave differently, her alarm will go off. She will start testing you, she will be on alert, she will start giving you shit tests, she will be comparing you to others guys she knows and so on, just so she can find out who you really are... Remember, girls are not stupid, they can usually read you quite well, they will eventually figure you out...
 

Drck

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
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Messages
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BTW, it's similar with other people. You have to GIVE first what you expect to get. You have to create strong Frame (e.g. morals) first, and those who are seeking the same values, or those who you attract as a person, will eventually start giving back what they received...

If you expect love from someone, you have to usually show love first...
If you want morals from someone, you have to usually show morals first...
If you expect honesty from someone, you have to usually show that you are honest yourself...

and so on...
 

trashKENNUT

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
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Drck,

I actually like notes you give, though you absolutely miss the point or the objective i wrote wasn't delivered properly. *sob sob*

Drck said:
If you expect love from someone, you have to usually show love first...
If you want morals from someone, you have to usually show morals first...
If you expect honesty from someone, you have to usually show that you are honest yourself...

and so on...

This sounds good but technically, not everything works like this. :) I recognize that human relationships are so complicated when foundations are not there. I realize that society fail at three things

1)Failure to respect the game (dating, relationships, or soccer or whatever)
2)Failure to respect the principles of building a <insert whatever you want to built>
3)Failure to respect the time needed to practice a skill even if it is five min.

So basically, it's a stages kind of thing. People's marriage sucks? Ask them to go counselling. Looks good on paper, horrible in reality because failure to respect 1 and 2 and 3

Zac
 

Drck

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
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Well, you wanted diverse comentary, so you only got what you asked for :)

Zac: "Failure to respect XYZ"

>>>> You have to project respect Zac, otherwise you will not get it, unfortunatelly. Most people will not respect others for no reason, it requires active work to respect someone with average appearance or behavior

* If a guy is 5'5", 140 pounds and he sees a guy who is 6'4" with 240 pounds of muscles, the bigger guy will have natural respect, at least as far as physical strenght goes. Meaning that the smaller guy would have to be either Bruce Lee or insane to try to fight the big guy. Most people will naturally respect the big guy, unless they have some personal problem
* If an average college student meets professor with high IQ and impressive knowledge, he or she will naturally respect his intelligence. It is just given

Similarly with behavior. Certain behavior generates disrespect, and certain behavior generates respect

* If somebody acts silly, too friendly, weak and so fort, he doesn't have any backbone, people will not respect him. It is because he or she doesn't respect himself/herself at first place, he/she doesn't project any respect...
* If somebody is sloppy, doesn't care, puts old clothes on that don't fit, doesn't care about his appearance and so forth - it's the same, people will hardly respect him or er

On the other hand:
* If somebody puts decent clothes on, takes care of his/her appearance, generaly respect others (meaning gives or projects respect first), doesn't talk down to others, he or she will be usually well respected
* If somebody sets clear behavioral boundaries and let's others know what is acceptable and what not, he or she will usually be well respected. People will simply not walk over him

---------

Counceling works only for those who are futher interested in the particular relationship. Counceling is simply an advise from third (and hopefully objective) party. If one of the two is not really interested in the relationship or marriage, counseling will hardly save it. Both persons have to GIVE some interest and willingness first, both have to invest before they can receive advice and reciprocity back. Which of course doesn't mean that if only one shows interest the other 50% will automatically show interest as well...

It's the same with seduction, just because a guy shows some interest in a girl he wants, or shows some sexy behavior, it doesn't really mean that he will get the same back from that particular girl. It of course doesn't work like that :) But he still has to project the same behavior to different girls, so he can eventually get it back from some of them...

One has to give before he gets back... :)
 

trashKENNUT

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
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Messages
6,551
Drck,

One thing important though. I really thank you for this. You actually help reveal myself. I am somewhat abit of a 'Leonardo DiCaprio'. Someone close to him noted in the news that he thinks like a women.

I need emotions in my life. Chase noted this in his unicorn article where everyone has their own needs. My need is that i do think like a women, or to say precisely, i need emotions in my life. I do behave like a kid because i am a happy guy. I like spontaneity. I need that. I need a storyline.

Thanks for the notes. I read it. My question to give back here is i feel that you are a straight up logical guy where what i give is what you give. I do believe you need to be somewhat emotional in relating to others.

Do you have this problem with girls or girls find you interesting that you are just this non-chalant guy? IT is like having a 'stone face' which some girls really dig it.

:)

Zac
 

Drck

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
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Messages
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That's actually quite peculiar what you wrote Zac :)

Honestly, based on different reactions here I don't think I am being perceived the right way. Words are misleading if you can't see the face and connect it to overall behavior. I blame it on my European background, we simply see things differently, and also have different humor...

I could have this sort of 'stone face' as you describe, I could appear as sort of tough muscular guy who doesn't make any compromises, but reality is different. I'm rather more of a softer, Nice Guy than Tough Guy. I can control my emotions quite well since I spent lots of time on it, but emotions are part of my expressive body language. If you were girl you could literally know many times what I'm thinking, just based on looking in my face. So I was told. And if you were hot girl, you would know exactly what I am thinking, LOL

Anyway, I could dead lift say 350 pounds with relative ease after couple weeks of training; I could do some 15-20 pull ups on spot with my weight around 190 pounds - lost 40! - and at the same time I could write a nice and eloquent love letter that would make you cry (if you were a girl, LOL)... I also don't have problem to tell certain people to fuck off, and many times I have hard time holding myself back, but I prefer to think about myself as rather nice gentler guy...
 

trashKENNUT

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
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Messages
6,551
Drck,

Drck said:
That's actually quite peculiar what you wrote Zac :)

I don't mean to scare you. HAHA! i have this tendency where if people go too "logic" on me, i become like a women. :) That's the current set of problems i am having and always have.

1)Cold reading a person and get it right or wrong.
2)Things can go horribly right or wrong after point 1

Then there's my spontaneity problem.

If i am too spontaneous, it can be detrimental to my work and what i do. However, if i am too mechanical, this will happen, like this post. It is quite something else when i can listen to Chase all day because Chase is technically logical but methodically emotional in his words. There's this element of streamline. I sure know that he knows how to write, especially the transition part.

We all must learn that.

Drck said:
Honestly, based on different reactions here I don't think I am being perceived the right way. Words are misleading if you can't see the face and connect it to overall behavior. I blame it on my European background, we simply see things differently, and also have different humor...

IT's a language and background thing. I noted to Chase on this, and also i just can't grasp why people can't get me. I tried writing in different way but i kind of recognize that the background thing also plays a big part. Sometimes i feel like a retard here. Also, sometimes my cold reading is so accurate that it scares people. Otherwise , it can go horribly wrong. TSK TSK...

Drck said:
And if you were hot girl, you would know exactly what I am thinking, LOL

I might be. XD Just like those 2d games like Maplestory, Gosh i hate those people playing female characters but males in real life. And no, i don't try to seduce those female characters all out. It's been a long while since i play that game.

Drck said:
Anyway, I could dead lift say 350 pounds with relative ease after couple weeks of training; I could do some 15-20 pull ups on spot with my weight around 190 pounds - lost 40! - and at the same time I could write a nice and eloquent love letter that would make you cry (if you were a girl, LOL)... I also don't have problem to tell certain people to fuck off, and many times I have hard time holding myself back, but I prefer to think about myself as rather nice gentler guy...

Definitely you not as logical as you are before. You cheat my feelings. How could you! :) But you are pretty blunt, so far i can read here.

So enough of me and my narcissism :)

Zac
 
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