"I never want to see you again" - Intercultural Misunderstanding Turnaround

[Natureman]

Gentlemen,

how can I turn-around strong auto-rejection?
Initially it was a big attraction.

Read Chase's articles on that topic but that does not seem to fit my situation.
I believe there is an intercultural misunderstanding at the core. We
are 1000 kilometers far away.


The story goes like this:

She, an American in Germany, me in central Europe. Met couple
of months ago at international conference both representing
our countries. She got my business card and mailed me the same night,
gradually confessing "romantic interests". Had been exchanging
mails since. She mentioned "distant relationship."
2 weeks ago we got a chance to meet at another
conference. Not much free time but went on a date in the evening.
All running smooth and well. But after a walk and talk (touches and playing
in her hair; really mutual deep diving, etc.) she started resisting my hand
on her hip/lower back/ass while walking the town, " you are annoying me",
then resisted to go with me to the hotel (but still continued walking with me my hand
at her hip); instead we joined the conference group
in a pub (she was too stubborn). We splitted at the table.
Next day when I seated myslef next to her after lunch she got immediatelly
Angry: "I dont want to talk to you. You HARRASSED me. You are an asshole. Go away."
I was surprised though very calm, tried to ask what is happening with my final calm: "No, I am just
Sitting here." She got even angrier and went to sit to a different group.

Her behaviour was rude, so again I did not pay attention to her for
the rest of the day.However she was making eye contact many times.
In the evening when the group finished in a pub and all of us took
Farewell from each other I asked her how's her schedule next
day (departure day) as I had a small gift brought from my country.
She replied: "It doesn't matter." Me just: "Yes, I know."

Next morning before departure I visited her in the hotel to
take her briefly to a cafe she refused. "I am packing I dont have time,
Dont want to talk to you. Dont touch me anymore. I am not interested
and you have to count with that." So I just gave the gift to her
and left. Resting with my baggage in the main street not far from the
hotel, we noticed each other, when she walked to the town.
So I called her, she came to me and started angrily yelling again. Me being calm,
tried to calm her down.."I see that you are very angry but dont really understand why?"
At least I figured out that "you did not recognize my boundaries",
"you are a psychopath, if you go to the hotel again, I will call police."(she's a lawyer
and uni lecturer) "I never want to see you again". Returning
quickly once again she then left in a fury.

I NEVER EVER ever got such a treatment or anything
reminding that from ANY woman. I was shocked. From my/here's perspective
it was TOTALY overblown. (American way???; seems even ridiculous /too serious/ from here’s perspective)
And it was kind of funny because she acted really like a little child. Kind of cute anger I have to say.

3 days after I send her an mail explaining that we must have run
into an intercultural misunderstanding and that in here
(and we were in central Europe) we simply have different
norms (leading women in the street with your hand on her
hip is a friendly manner not a harrassement; and for sure not if she did not
protested before at all) and guest are expected to comply with them.
Tried to call her a few days after, unsuccesfully. Silence.

Now, I am kind of accepting it's over BUT still would
like to turn it around. It's the 1st time (out of many earlier options)
I was considering a distance relationship. She's very much the kind of rare
women I love. She's a leader just like me.

I assume she took holiday and travelled all the way to the conference
primarily to see me. That's why such an overblown anger when things
did not go her way. So I am basically calm about it (even if her behaviour scared
me rationaly a little bit) as I can understand that there must be
Some very strong emotions behind that.

But the misunderstanding makes me rather sad.
The connection was really great. Very, very rare.

What is the best I can DO now and later (maybe some steps) and why?

It's been normal for me that latest when things cool off, I have
a rational conversation about what happened and resolve things.
The distance makes it difficult.

I consider
a) Closing mail a monologue style, saying basically that "refusing to have a talk, I assume things are fine but you are just choosing to be rude." /basically framing it and ending it on my terms; not letting it cowardly fade away/
b) Or leaving it as it is, (maybe contacting her in 2-3 weeks). Letting go is easiest for me but I am not sure it really is the right decision here.
c) YOUR ADVICE (sometimes Chase‘s advice is something rather unexpected and sort of brilliant; let me say some sort of „miraculous pill“);

Thanks if you made it up to here.

 

[andersen09]

I'm not sure why it's a intercultural misunderstanding.

The point where you started fucking up is right here.

1. "She started resisting my hand on her hip/lower back/ass"

That's your first warning that she's not comfortable.

2. "You're annoying me"

When she has to verbally state it, it's already pretty bad.
It's communicating "Look, obviously I have to state it out for you. Stop touching me"

You didn't get the hint and you persisted. And she felt disrespected and into auto-rejection she goes.
From her perspective, she doesn't care whether you think it's multl cultural thing or any of your rationalizations.

She clearly told you to stop, and you kept going without figuring out what she needed in the situation.
Hence the auto-rejection.

Next time, when you see that she's uncomfortable, take a step or two back. And just talk to her without trying to do anything. And try again few hours later.

 

[Natureman]

Andersen, thanks for reading and your view.

I'm not sure why it's a intercultural misunderstanding.

Intercultural misunderstanding as it not uncommon that here resisting of that kind
is part of the game. It's playful. If a local women was really against that she would
slap your hand or your face or st like that. Be angry on the spot not a day after.
And NOT muttering something and continuing to walk with you.

Any turn-around suggestions?

 

[lostnumber]

I hate to a throw a brother under the bus, but this goes way beyond "cultural misunderstanding"

I mean, she is threatening to call the cops on you and you are seriously asking how to turn things around??? I'd stay the hell away from this girl. Other than pulling out a gun and shooting you I'm not sure what more she could be doing to express how little she wants your advances, and you aren't taking a hint. It may be normal where you live to put your hand on a girls hip to lead her somewhere, but I would hope that when she tells you to fuck off and stop it you would listen no matter what country you are in.

There is a difference between being persistent and overcoming objections and ignoring them completely. The lines might be a little blurred in some cases, and sure some countries might be different then others in terms of social norms, but this case sounds very black and white to me. The girl made it abundantly clear on multiple occasions that she wanted you to stop whatever it was you were doing, and in all of them you ignored her.

Not trying to be a jerk but I think you are way off on this whole scenario and maybe need a bit of harsh truth. I'd let this girl go on her way and be more considerate next time, regardless of what country the girl is from.

 

[Smurf]

Next.

If a girl responds like this, learn to back off. You have to read a situation and know when to call it a loss.

 

[Natureman]

Thanks guys for your feedback. 3 opinions of the same kind. I have to reconsider my view.

I have been wondering why that quick switch and the strong intensity of her emotion?

I am sharing the initial part of the story. Would you give me a clue what I could do better next time?
And what were the KEY moments where I could/should have acted differently?

We are going to the castle park in the city talking.
Me: putting my hand on her hip to lead her:
She in a relaxed way: "You are rather daring."
Me: Smile "I am a man."
She is comfortable with my hand. Walk and talk continues.
Bla, bla, bla

Reaching the park, I lead her to sit on a bank with good outlook on the city.
Good conversation. Mutual deep diving. She is sharing A LOT of rather personal
information. I am stroking her on her arm.
She's okay with that. Only occasionally remarks something resistive in a playful way.
Bla, bla, bla

She: "So what do you want with me. You've been very persistent with emails.
Aren't there enough women in XYZ /my place/?
Me a bit surprised at her directness: "Well, don't know yet. Get to know you first.
Well, there are a lot of women but there's no Susan. What do you want from me?"
Amuzed smile. I think she did not answer or at least I do not remeber.

Conversation goes on I start to play with her hair.
She after some time: "You should stop that. I think you will want
to kiss me." (sort of playful)
Me: friendly, amused smile. "Who's talking here about kissing?"
/seems and felt like a missed escalation window; intentionally as I wanted
to save kissing for private/
Me: after a while "We should be going."

In the middle of the park she goes: "Are they naked?"
Me: "What?"
She points to a bench
Now we both see there is a young couple madly kissing each other (not naked).
She takes out her cell phone and takes a castle picture.
/there might have been again a missed window for kissing;
I however did not understand fully what she was saying at
that moment. The tricky about the whole interactions: we were communicating
over another language foreign to both of us…/
She for sure said, commenting the kissers: "That is the difference between difficult and easy:"
/sounded like an allusion to our mails; where I teased her with " U dont think I am so easy"/
And she: "we don't want to hurt anybody." /I might have teased her a bit harder in my last mail "no distant relationship?,
so we have to find st different than to date. ", so she in response pulled out the card: "met sb recently" probably ego-protection not
to look like she was chasing me/

We continue, I lead her to a place with the best outlook on the city.
Here I am noticing she has a ring on the ring finger. A bit surprised and not to
enter morally dubious places I am asking.
Me: "Is it a wedding ring?"
She: "No." and "You would like to know whether I am married?" /very sweet voice sounded deeply delighted/
We discuss the differences on which hand wedding rings are
carried in our countries. While I am playing with her hand.

We are leaving.
She: "Seems like you are thinking a lot. Or are you a man of spare words?"
Me: Smile. "I am both. But right now my head is rather empty."
/could again have been a missed window for kissing/
Me: "I have some pictures from my holiday brought with me
as I told you. What about going to the hotel to have a look?"
She: interesting inquisitive look. I see she understands.

She did not answer, we left the park and headed down to the city.
I put my hand on her hip to lead her again. After a while here
she starts verbally resisting. I was trying to overcome her
objections but it then remained a sort of hiccup and consumed
too much of my mental energy. I start sensing the things are beginning
to go out of tune.

She: "How many international girlfriends do you have?"
Me: "Well, 115. Actually no, 116. I forgot the Rachel"
She: "U mean the Rachel from the conference?"
/I had a very good conversation with the pretty R. before she saw and I think
she was slightly jealous/
Me: smile "No a different one. And Rebecca, the blonde
one too. So 117 in total."
/not sure if that was pure test or rather an authentic question/

We enter the city back. She starts being aloof. Conversation dying out.
Not wanting to go to a cafe. . She mentioning joining the conference group in
a pub instead. Here I start to struggle to overturn the situation.
She breaks and about to leave for the pub. Unsuccesful attempt to lure
her for a drink elswhere. She is leaving.
Me: "Stop. You wanna wait for me."
Now I am following her thinking the "battle" is lost for us for failed leadership. Then the
incident with the resistance to my hand on her hip gets stronger.
She: "I am not your girlfriend."
Bla, bla, bla
Me: "Do people kiss each other in public in the US?
She: "Yes, only if they both want."
Me: "ok."
bla,bla

We are reaching the pub
She: "Are you getting moody because things are not on your terms?
I thought you were a man."
Me: "Sure, I am."

END of the STORY

I pinpoint what I think is relevant from the point of seduction. And to keep it readable.
So the "script" is definitely not complete.

The next day I got a good pre-selection. One pretty lady heavily after me
and bunch of others around most of the day.

My overall gut feeling was that her anger was a "revenge anger".
If a women is emotionaly indiffernt towards you, she would act calm and non-excited, neither affectionate nor angry-hateful.
Her reactions were way too intense.
She knew that I had been screened and tested personality-wise profoundly for professional reasons.
So from that perspective her assaults were unfounded.
Foreign language as tool for communication that made the whole thing more difficult could also make her more lenient.

WHY turnaround?
Well, nexting is basic skill and is easy. Most of the time I personally consider it to be the best option but it is not an all-healing mantra.
Here at GC the folks are advanced and turnaround is an advanced stuff. (Experienced a gradiose one myself in the past.)
In essence I think it's a trust issue. Rather trust loss than attractiveness loss. And trust can be restored.
I guess there's a more collective expertise on that here.

Have however again other things going on in life, so that won't probably happen but lessons learned are always precious
and worth the investment. Hope others can learn from that as well.

Thanks

 

[andersen09]

She: "How many international girlfriends do you have?"
Me: "Well, 115. Actually no, 116. I forgot the Rachel"
She: "U mean the Rachel from the conference?"
/I had a very good conversation with the pretty R. before she saw and I think
she was slightly jealous/
Me: smile "No a different one. And Rebecca, the blonde
one too. So 117 in total."
/not sure if that was pure test or rather an authentic question/

Here is your turning point.


There were a lot of things that you did which led her to asking you this question. I can't really grab it because of your mixed English expressions. But this is 100%.

When she asked you "How many international girlfriends do you have?" you answered completely wrong.

This isn't your "playful" shit test like PUA teaches most of the time. It's more of a serious undertone.
And she was sub-communicating "Hey, there's some things you're doing that makes me feel like I'm just another girl to you".
What that was I'm not sure, whether it was too much touching or what but if you can write your description a bit better above, I can pin point.

Anyway, you said the standard "oh i have a million"
This is only useful when she's "teasingly testing" you, not in this circumstance.

Here, you should've tested her intention. And why should you test her intention? because she went from being warm with you to slightly being more distant. So you could've figured out what the cause was and adjust to what she was feeling, which you failed.

Her: "How many international girlfriends do you have?
You: What? What kind of a question is that?
And from here you need to address whatever she says.

Whatever you say doesn't really matter. What you need to convey is a tone of (Uh.. what? I was enjoying this moment and why are you asking me this?)

The idea is, by playing around, you just amplified in her head that you are a "player".

And that's the thing, most guys think it's "cool" to be known as a player, but what you don't realize at the same time, there's a point when a girl needs to feel comfortable with you, not amplify the situation. This called for a "deescalate" not escalate and amplify.

 

[Natureman]

Thanks
I am a bit angry at myself now.

You mean to rewrite the whole "script", do you? I can try. Thanks for the offer.
Now:

1. OK, my undertone was first serious and then playful when answering that question.

"What? What kind of a question is that?" That exactly I had in my mind. But I always think:
"If I was not interested I would not be spending my precious time with her. God, do I really
have to communicate such an obvious thing? Why doesn't she trust me?" Seems like thinking
aloud would do.

2. What about the "kissing escalation windows"? Was that a mistake not to take them, even if
intentional or how should I have handeld that? I think up to a certain point not-taking them builds up tension, especially if you have a higher goal later.

3. I agree with your identification of the ultimate turning point completely.
But tend to think the cardinal mistake must have been before when leaving the park.
But I do not see any major mistakes there. Might it be that I forgot to say or do something rewarding for her? (except for inviting her to see picutres)

4. How to interpret this? I am not sure about the meaning:

We are reaching the pub. Ultimate end of the walk and talk.
She: "Are you getting moody because things are not on your terms?
I thought you were a man."
Me: "Sure, I am."
/just adding that earlier in deep dive she mentioned „wearing the pants“ a few times/

5. So, Andersen, what do you think how does she probably feel and think about me now?
What would one have to tap into to mitigate it at least?
Would it be a sincere apology for hurting her and make her feel disrespected?
e.g. "I am sorry that I hurt your feelings and made you feel disrespected."
Would it be self-disclosure (assertiveness technique)?
e.g. Your questions made me feel insecure.
Addressing it from the issue behind the turning point? Directly addressing trust issue?
A combination of these? I think there is no good way around honestly confessing that I messed it up.

It's a rather thin ice to walk on. And difficult to imagine how it would read on the other side.
And I fear that honesty (assertive way) here might easily be mistaken for being a chasing pushover (passive-aggressive) or manipulator if not conveyed right.

In this particular case, I see the different cultures and language gap are still playing it's inauspicious part (U see yourself that even here: my bad English makes it difficult to understand not only the nuances). But I have come to realize that the main wrongdoing lies in improper reading her mind or rather not acting upon that appropriately.

Andersen thanks. I appreciate your help a lot.

 

[andersen09]

1. OK, my undertone was first serious and then playful when answering that question.

"What? What kind of a question is that?" That exactly I had in my mind. But I always think:
"If I was not interested I would not be spending my precious time with her. God, do I really
have to communicate such an obvious thing? Why doesn't she trust me?" Seems like thinking
aloud would do.

Making assumptions about what she should think is one of the biggest mistakes.
Women are never logical. Men think this way.
"Oh she's here -> She's spending time -> She must like me"

Here's the thought process that might help you understand better.

Women:
(Feels like you're playing her) - "Wait does he do this with every girl?" "Does he spend all his time with other women too?" "Am I just a number?"
(Expression): How many international gfs do you have? (I hope he at least communicates that he's taking me serious..)

You:
(Wait what? She can't be serious. She should KNOW I'm here and spending time with her because I like her. Oh this must be her testing me)
I got a million.

But let me ask you this. If she's spending HER valuable time with you also, what would make her ask you such question?
Let's apply your logic and apply it to her situation, it would be the same thing along the lines of

"He should know I feel uncomfortable. I already hinted at him verbally like 20 times that he's being too touchy"

You have to also take into account that she probably also has dating experience under her belt. And a guy before you was may be touching her a lot just like you and just thirsting over her. Women go through this a lot more than men. They think a guy might be cool. They give him a shot. They spend time. They realize he's either (a creep, a loser, a player, a stalker) whatever. Why do you think "shit tests" exists? Because 99% of men are idiots. So for you to assume "She should trust me" is basically saying you have no awareness regarding what an average attractive woman goes through.

2. What about the "kissing escalation windows"? Was that a mistake not to take them, even if
intentional or how should I have handeld that? I think up to a certain point not-taking them builds up tension, especially if you have a higher goal later.

The ONLY TIME a "kissing escalation window" would be a mistake, is if she can tell you're just too scared to make a move. Kissing isn't required to seduce a girl. You can save it til you get to your place to start kissing her. But if she can tell that you COULD kiss her, but you're just not for whatever reason, she finds that even more attractive. Because it's coming from a place of self-control, not fear of losing her.

In your instance, it might've contributed to what she was turned off by, but it's not the whole picture. The biggest mistakes were the small mistakes of aggressively pushing forward even though she hinted that she was getting uncomfortable, not missing a "kissing window".

3. I agree with your identification of the ultimate turning point completely.
But tend to think the cardinal mistake must have been before when leaving the park.
But I do not see any major mistakes there. Might it be that I forgot to say or do something rewarding for her? (except for inviting her to see picutres)

Let's say you did make a mistake at the park.

If you made a huge mistake, you would've remembered it.
If you didn't make any mistakes, it wouldn't really matter.
Because the point is, the small mistakes were made through out the whole date that added up and the turning point was when she decided to confront you about it but in a feminine way. (Indirect and Subtle)

If she asks you seriously, "Are you just playing me" Any guy can say "Of course not darling, I'm here spending my time with you right now, just trust me". ANY guy. So she looks to see how you react to a curve ball she throws at you.

Your intentions don't matter. What only matters is what you communicate to her.

4. How to interpret this? I am not sure about the meaning:

We are reaching the pub. Ultimate end of the walk and talk.
She: "Are you getting moody because things are not on your terms?
I thought you were a man."
Me: "Sure, I am."
/just adding that earlier in deep dive she mentioned „wearing the pants“ a few times/

HERE you could've teased her about it cause she's giving you shit.

Her: "I thought you were a man"
Guy: "Really? And here I was starting to think you probably have a bigger dick than I do"
Guy: "Not tonight. Tonight, I'm the woman, and you're the man." If you wanna be bit of a dick you could add "You have a deeper voice than I do"

But because you did say "Sure I am" she' cant really tell cause it sounds neutral. There's a chance that you ARE actually getting moody cause things arn't on your terms. Whatever that means.

5. So, Andersen, what do you think how does she probably feel and think about me now?
What would one have to tap into to mitigate it at least?
Would it be a sincere apology for hurting her and make her feel disrespected?
e.g. "I am sorry that I hurt your feelings and made you feel disrespected."
Would it be self-disclosure (assertiveness technique)?
e.g. Your questions made me feel insecure.
Addressing it from the issue behind the turning point? Directly addressing trust issue?
A combination of these? I think there is no good way around honestly confessing that I messed it up.

It's a rather thin ice to walk on. And difficult to imagine how it would read on the other side.
And I fear that honesty (assertive way) here might easily be mistaken for being a chasing pushover (passive-aggressive) or manipulator if not conveyed right.

In this particular case, I see the different cultures and language gap are still playing it's inauspicious part (U see yourself that even here: my bad English makes it difficult to understand not only the nuances). But I have come to realize that the main wrongdoing lies in improper reading her mind or rather not acting upon that appropriately.

Andersen thanks. I appreciate your help a lot.

Is she gone? And are you guys keeping in contact? What's the after math of the situation currently?
With that being said, I'll tell you a story of where I royally fucked up when I was 18-19.

I was meeting a girl that was 23 when I was 19. She was very sexy and naturally beautiful face without any make up. To ME at that time, I would've never thought she was the insecure/low self-esteem type of girl, as her beauty was something of any man would die for. And I made two crucial mistakes.

Mistake #1
She asks: "How many girls you talking to other than me?"
Me: I'm talking to 3. (I answered seriously)
Her: Seriously? Go talk to your other hoes then. Why are you talking to me?

Mistake #2
Me: You know I didn't think you were the insecure type. Either stop being insecure or get out of my life.
Her: Seriously? Okay I'll get out of your life. Bye

Anyway, here's what happened. I wrote her a genuine message without any intention to get her back.

I simply wrote this.

"Hey (X), I was thinking about what I said, and it came off pretty harsh. I think there were a bit of miscommunication between both of us and it escalated without proper understanding between us. I'm just want to say I'm sorry for those harsh words, as you're a woman of someone I would've never invested my time in if I didn't think you were worth it. I don't really care if we don't talk again, but this needed to be said. Hope you're okay"

Her: Why did you block me?
Me: Because I was mad at you.
Her: Why?
Me: I'm not sure, but that's in the past.
Her: Well apology accepted.
Me: Hey, thanks. I'm glad this worked out

*2 hours later.
Her: That's it?
Me: ?
Her: You're gonna apologize to me and that's it? (Basically saying she wants me to keep talking to her)
Me: Call me.

And here we talked again and became even closer and the next day the conversation was.

Her: So.. what do you want me to wear when you come visit me..?

And that was that.

Sometimes a genuine apology works. But you also have to realize that she's probably very bitter, and you have to give her time to cool off and actually expect for her to tell you to fuck off. And as long as you're coming from the right place without any attachment to an ending, who knows? she may comeback. but she might also not.

Let me know what you decide to do.

 

[Natureman]

Andersen,

hi and thanks again. I am impressed by your analytical and teaching skills.

So for you to assume "She should trust me" is basically saying you have no awareness regarding what an average attractive woman goes through.

True. Low awareness. I cannot control my „competition“, so I never fully focused on them. Except for excellence and worst cases to learn from. And those key interactions in seduction seems to be rather hidden than public anyway. So I’ve preferred to focus on myself as that’s what I can control and improve.

Thanks for sharing your story and congrats for the past turnaround!

I’m comfortable with the fact that I cannot control other people’s reactions. The least effect here can be that I’ll put her hurt mind at ease. And we don’t want hurt people running around, don’t we? So, I decided that I’ll give it a try.

Before doing that, I’d like to ask 2 final questions not to mess it up second time. As what I am not that much comfortable with yet, is the level of my skills.

1. With your „template answer“ you completely speak my mind. Simple and straightforward to the point.
What difference would it make if I include the info that to ME she is unique, stands out and why (character qualities), so not just a „women of someone“? She stands out and I’d like to tell her. But I don’t want to flatter her nor her to mistakenly think I have no other options. Rather that she is the chosen one. Just let her know the truth. But I am not sure if this is the right place to do so.

2. This one is general but related. I see you can – what Bruce Lee would probably call „express yourself truly“ and effectively. Your „template answer“ is a brilliant example of that. I could wrack my brain to think of such a simple answer you presented. I think oftentimes people do not need any special communication techniques etc.. It’d be enough to listen to your inner voice and think the most important thing you hear aloud. But the truth within us often seems to be suppressed. Let me get a bit philosophical here: „The great Way is very straight, but people prefer to deviate.“ is how they called it in Dao de Jing even 2000 years ago. Now, how did you come to that straightness and simplicity or what is the thing that causes it in you? How to acquire it? If I „had“ it, I certainly wound not need your advice and that would simply be great.

Thanks

 

[andersen09]

1. With your „template answer“ you completely speak my mind. Simple and straightforward to the point.
What difference would it make if I include the info that to ME she is unique, stands out and why (character qualities), so not just a „women of someone“? She stands out and I’d like to tell her. But I don’t want to flatter her nor her to mistakenly think I have no other options. Rather that she is the chosen one. Just let her know the truth. But I am not sure if this is the right place to do so.

If you're asking me that you would like to include something special about her in your apology letter, that would be conveyed as desperate depending on how you word it. But because you're already in a losing position, I wouldn't risk it in the first place because there's a high chance that she'll perceive it as neediness. "Why would he tell me he thinks I'm special?"

The most I might say is "Look I usually don't do this with a girl, but for reason..... (and continue). You're implying to her, "I've been in this situation but with you, for some reason, I'm doing something I don't usually do."

2. This one is general but related. I see you can – what Bruce Lee would probably call „express yourself truly“ and effectively. Your „template answer“ is a brilliant example of that. I could wrack my brain to think of such a simple answer you presented. I think oftentimes people do not need any special communication techniques etc.. It’d be enough to listen to your inner voice and think the most important thing you hear aloud. But the truth within us often seems to be suppressed. Let me get a bit philosophical here: „The great Way is very straight, but people prefer to deviate.“ is how they called it in Dao de Jing even 2000 years ago. Now, how did you come to that straightness and simplicity or what is the thing that causes it in you? How to acquire it? If I „had“ it, I certainly wound not need your advice and that would simply be great.

What I'm thinking you mean is how did I come to get my analytical skills?

First, I worked in mental health in the military for 3 years in my early 20s. I had a psychologist mentor above me and he would always talk to me how he diagnoses people and their backgrounds, motivations, and behaviors. And now I'm also majoring in psychology.

Second, I'm neurotic. I'm sure you can tell from some of the questions I ask, I ask myself questions about what I did wrong with a girl and replay it 100s of times. To some people, they would dismiss my questions as "irrelevant", but I go over every single mistake I make in my head over and over. I made so many humiliating mistakes and coming from social retarded background, I was always analyzing everything.

For example, when I was in 9th grade, I was telling a girl that I wanted to fuck her like at least once every other day. I remember thinking it was an "alpha" thing to do. Next thing I know I got a phone call from one of her guy friends telling me they were finding my address cause they were gonna jump me, and that story spread like wild fire. That's just ONE of my humiliating stories. So from there, I naturally have this fear of going TOO far in social realms. And therefore, I analyze everything, and I mean everything in my head.

I think Einstein said it the best, "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it enough".

It's by going through scenarios like yours over and over, and also reading other guys' experience. You'll naturally develop that.
But if there's one thing that'll never stop is that you'll never stop asking for advice.

My psychologist mentor who was probably the best psychologist in the military (He's guaranteed a spot as a general and awarded highest possible award in the US military for being a psychologist) told me that even him, who has the best analytical skills, couldn't diagnose himself or his own family members. He's amazing at diagnosing other patients but when he comes to himself, he still needs another psychologist.

But at the same time, the way you lessen seeking advice, is to analyze yourself. People in the PUA community talk about not being in your head so much, but that only applies to people who's mastered this. When you're beginning and trying to better yourself, you have to go through a phase of experimenting and being self-conscious of your behaviors, words, what you say, all of that. And once you start getting the results that you want, then you can begin to trust your gut instinct because it's based off of previous results, not just a "gut feeling".

So basically

1. Analyze yourself like a madman (write a journal)
2. Write your perspectives on forums like this one and test out to see if your perspective on a certain situation was right and get feedback from other people, well except for the idiots.

Hope this helps

 

[Natureman]

Thanks for the advice. I tried what you suggested.
There's already someone hitting on me. So I give it one week and then I'll see.
I can't wait for her forever.

In the end if she in her beginning thirties is not able to deal with a single misunderstanding now what a partner
would she make if any conflict occurred later?

Ok, so you are trained practically and also have a solid theoretical basis in psychology. Now I understand.

Does being curious and devoted to your case mean that a person is neurotic?
I don't think so. I think once a person reaches understanding the emotionally loaded curiosity
goes away.

Going too far in social realms. Funny you should speak about that. I have my own rich experience with that.
I think it is far better to go too far and correct yourself than to be a mediocre person who does not have much clue and just follows other people's rules even if it is a natural.

I remember one of our leading statesmen said: "Everyone has so much space as (s)he is able to make for himself." So I believe to experiment with the social borders pays off in the end.
If you don't go to far then at least it's a bit of adrenaline.

And sure it would be great if one was already calibrated by default. But don't we learn a great deal of things on the journey?

Thanks for sharing your ideas and your advice.
And good luck with women.