I'm a "feminine" guy. How do I go about with this?

[jdoc]

For most of my life people have deemed me as feminine. Having said that, I've been focusing intensely on perfecting my fundamentals over the past few months - so my body language, walk, and expressions seem pretty masculine.

Last week after making out with a girl I was on a date with, she said she thought that I might've been gay, such that I was very feminine and neat.
Today, I had an acquaintance ask me "do girls usually think you're gay?"... "You just have a bit of a feminine style" (I was wearing a fitted black leather jacket)
A few months back, a friend told me I looked like a lesbian who was trying to act "butch".

Normally this wouldn't have bothered me, but recently I was just thinking that a huge part of attraction is having a masculine presence.

I've always been a small dude - I stand at 5'5 and weigh 125 pounds. I've got lightning fast metabolism, so for my whole life I've had a skinny, petite frame. I have a meticulous grooming routine - I make sure my skin is pristine, free of acne and blackheads. My eyebrows are groomed and of moderate thickness. Facial hair looks terrible on me because it grows patchy so I'm forced to remain clean shaven. I'm currently rocking an undercut as my hairstyle, and it's dyed dark maroon - something pretty fashion forward.

My fashion sense is what people would call metrosexual, edging on fashion forward. I almost exclusively wear Dr Martens combat boots or oxfords, and I am usually seen in fitted cardigans, a black leather jacket, denim jacket, pea coat, trench coat or other variants of coats. All my shirts hug close to my already slim frame. I wear skinny jeans which hug close to my legs. I have an impressive sock and scarf collection. My style has taken me a couple of years to build up to a level which I'd say I'm proud of, but I find that my style seems to be too well put together, so as to come off as gay or feminine. Sometimes I feel like I belong on a fashion runway rather than out on the streets seducing women. I receive regular compliments regarding my style.

Anyway, these days I'm hitting the weights and eating twice as much. I'm starting to make some noticeable progress on packing some meat onto my bones. I'm thinking about revamping my style to something slightly more masculine, but I have no idea where to begin.

Interested in your opinions on:
1. Do you think it's necessarily a bad thing to have a feminine aspect to your appearance? Could it be considered disarming? Is it a detriment to game?
2. What are some pointers I can take to appear more masculine?

- J

 

[Lotus]

Interested in your opinions on:
1. Do you think it's necessarily a bad thing to have a feminine aspect to your appearance? Could it be considered disarming? Is it a detriment to game?
2. What are some pointers I can take to appear more masculine?

I don't think it's bad thing to be as fashionable as you are currently, It's become more and more acceptable to have strong fashion and good grooming. Your problem doesn't lie there it's most likely your fundamentals that are causing the "feminine presence." How is your eye contact, movements, vocal tonality? Those are all aspects that can be easily changed to appear more masculine, while you can maintain your awesome fashion sense.

Obviously adding muscle will help, but that's not really a "quick fix". The easiest thing will be for you to soak up everything you can on fundamentals/ get chase's e-book. Made such a massive difference for me.

The only style thing I can comment on is the maroon hair. With something that polarizing you are going to cut out a large amount of girls from the get go. Is it something that important to your style?

That's for you to decide, but I suggest you look at the opportunity cost of having that color hair and decide if it's worth it.

Lotus

 

[Sophisticated Gent]

jdoc,

In addition to Lotus's comments I would add that movements is important. The things I am going to mention are stereotypical but it is what people perceive as feminine.

Keeping your upper arms close into the body while moving your lower arms.
Wrist movement as an emphasis to statements.
Shorter walking stride.
Sideways hip movements.
Hand jesters to the face.
Over exaggerated facial movements.

I would suggest watching and imitating movements of some masculine men such as Harrison Ford, Michael Douglas and Sean Connery. Watch how they move their arms and how they walk. Incorporate you own style with these movements. This will take practice. Your muscle memory will take over after about 20 days of practice and it will be much easier.

BDSC

 

[Drck]

Agree with the above, add some musculinity to it and you'll be fine (as long as you like girls and not boys, LOL).

Femininity can be quite useful to guys, not just musculinity (which is of course important). I see that you are detail oriented, you are descriptive while using good vocabulary, you care about fascion, grooming and so on. That's all good, better to have it than not.

 

[HellAtlantic]

Wouldn't it just be easier to go to places where your look is more appreciated? Like trendy clubs? Places in your city's fashion district? You wouldn't walk into a biker bar with that look and think you're gonna have success. Find out where your look is generally more accepted.

 

[Rage]

Hey what's up jdoc,

I actually am trying to fix up my dress to get more like you have it right now actually…

But anyway not to get off topic; I think the guys above provided some awesome general advice. Also you’ve been working on your fundamentals a lot and working to improve your physique too and that’s HUGE and will help you a lot (both in looks and the added testosterone boost).

I could comment and discuss more a bit because I’d been in your same situation a few years back (and most of my earlier life). My problem I suppose wasn’t being feminine (and I think yours isn’t either; yours is probably more the other stuff you describe... it was for me too) but my problem was that I wasn’t seen as masculine enough by girls.

I had been 5’9 and 120 lbs for nearly all of high school (maybe 115 lbs freshman year) and I was essentially the skinniest kid at my height and weight, and was skinnier than a lot of the girls. I didn’t have confidence issues really, or problems getting bullied or fitting in or anything that much: but the problem particularly I had that I didn’t like was that girls didn’t see me as masculine enough and other guys (all guys I thought) had a physique better geared for getting women than I did. I started trying to figure out how to work out in early high school and it was years before I got it right; I would do calisthenics then but never put on weight until I started weightlifting. I took up lifting at 18 yrs old, and am 21 now and weight 165 lbs at the same height roughly.

What I sort of did when I turned 18 and began lifting seriously for the first time, was that I wanted to fully change who I was and my persona and stuff. I used to dress like a skater kinda in high school; in college as I was starting lifting I wanted to fully get a tough guy physique attitude mentality etc. I began buzzing my head, having tough guy fundamentals and trying to smile less, trying to be like Byronic characters a good example being like tom hardy from warrior, who was tough and fierce but Byronic as well. I wanted to look like that and be that guy. http://i1.wp.com/www.slashfilm.com/wp/w ... =271%2C344 I copied the facial expressions and mannerisms, and dressed like that too. Would wear plain colors, tanks and jeans like that, or cut off shirt and jeans, or plain tshirt or v neck. Anything a guy that was tough like that would wear (and nothing that he wouldn't).

I had previously erred so much in the direction of not masculine enough and effeminate or just beta I suppose, that I wanted to fix that and go as masculine as I could be. So first I started with the extremes and stuff and gradually became the masculine guy more and more. Soon like a year or two in I forget about pretending and really became that guy, then a while after that it got to the point where I had already exceeded my previous goals and completely forgotten about them. Girls would look at me and turn their heads and think that I was hot and check me out, and talk about me whispering turned on to their girlfriends.

But I erred too much in the tough guy direction because I went further than needed to. That was fine though; I could now start unraveling it a bit now. I would be more easily prone to having a girl auto reject because I was too tough or emotionally unavailable or not relatable enough.

So I grew my hair longer again, tried blending more fashion in and stuff, and now being a guy who was fashionable and not just a meathead (because I had already gone so far in that direction, that I initially had really needed to go).

Now I work on focusing on improving my game the most, and balancing my look in the ways it needs to be balanced. I disarmed the “too masculine, too tough guy look” in the last year, and now am working to fix my look from attainable and good looking to attainable and more fashionable too (maybe even ditch the tough guy look altogether now often, because I have already reached those heights I had wanted and achieved all the persona pluses you get from becoming that guy).

So my advice in your situation would be to try and adopt a persona of who you want to become https://www.girlschase.com/content/9-mal ... -you-women for me it was a mix of tough guy and rebel. And do the things to look the part, act like it, change all the mannerisms and bits of conversation and fashion style and look of face and hair and all that to match what you’re going for. Find fictional characters who resemble that and imitate them too. 

Whichever side/qualities you are lacking in your own seduction and process: work to shore up those weak points. That’s deliberate practice by definition.

And in doing that you can fix where you are lacking and bring everything else up altogether too.

And then who knows one day soon, you might be the guy trying to dampen down their hyper masculine edge a bit, and trying to figure out how to better do that.

Gem 

 

[jdoc]

Some of these response have been eye-opening. Interesting points were made.

I feel like the general consensus is that hyper-masculinity isn't a prerequisite for solid game - although masculinity definitely has a large role is generating passive attraction. Having said that, it's not to say that femininity is completely useless and that feminine traits ought to be purged from one's personality. It probably does have a few advantages and utility here and there. Really interesting (I've used that word a lot throughout this post... but it's true!) responses here. Glad some of you have really put some thought into this - I appreciate it!

- J
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Lotus:

I don't think it's bad thing to be as fashionable as you are currently, It's become more and more acceptable to have strong fashion and good grooming. Your problem doesn't lie there it's most likely your fundamentals that are causing the "feminine presence." How is your eye contact, movements, vocal tonality? Those are all aspects that can be easily changed to appear more masculine, while you can maintain your awesome fashion sense.

Interesting point at that. Ever since posting this, I've been ultra-aware about my own body language, movements, eye contact and voice. Admittedly, some aspects are slightly feminine. At times I have caught myself slouching effeminately, and leaning against things. My body language is almost always slow now. My eye contact and voice seem pretty good, but there's some more work to do. Interesting thought at keeping with my stylish albeit feminine fashion sense. Think I'll keep it.

BigDaddySc:

Keeping your upper arms close into the body while moving your lower arms.
Wrist movement as an emphasis to statements.
Shorter walking stride.
Sideways hip movements.
Hand jesters to the face.
Over exaggerated facial movements.

Interesting dissection there! For the most part, I think I've got these points handled.

I would suggest watching and imitating movements of some masculine men such as Harrison Ford, Michael Douglas and Sean Connery. Watch how they move their arms and how they walk. Incorporate you own style with these movements. This will take practice. Your muscle memory will take over after about 20 days of practice and it will be much easier.

Indeed! I've actually been doing exactly that over the past couple of months

Radeng:

Alternatively learn to game like someone like Russelll brand who puts off incredibly masculine and manly traits and mixes in a lot of femininity and openness and challenges gender assumptions. I would let that patchy shit grow lol it'll be good to make your face more rugged.

Interesting thought! I'm thinking that a dynamic interplay between femininity and masculinity could actually work. Haha, but I think I'll pass on the facial hair... it grows in awkward strands and looks as if I'm suffering hair loss... but on my chin

Drck:

Agree with the above, add some musculinity to it and you'll be fine (as long as you like girls and not boys, LOL).

Femininity can be quite useful to guys, not just musculinity (which is of course important). I see that you are detail oriented, you are descriptive while using good vocabulary, you care about fascion, grooming and so on. That's all good, better to have it than not.

I think that you and radeng might be right with this one. Thinking I could leave my style as is, and exude a masculine vibe through other areas.

HellAtlantic:

Wouldn't it just be easier to go to places where your look is more appreciated? Like trendy clubs? Places in your city's fashion district? You wouldn't walk into a biker bar with that look and think you're gonna have success. Find out where your look is generally more accepted.

Most of the time I'm doing approaches during the day and I haven't really hit the night-life much yet. Something I'll keep in mind though!

DrexelScott:

None of the things you mentioned, like pea coats and haircuts, have any effect on seduction or pickup whatsoever UNLESS you are specifically seeking a trendy girl who keeps up with fashion and modern culture and that kind of thing. You will probably do well with those girls, I have friends who seem incredibly gay, but women love them. In fact most of the guys I know who women are most attracted to, are effeminate in some regard, whether it is the mentality or the use of language. But I don't hang out with guys who try to act all hard and macho, so there is some bias on my part as well.

You will have to develop a strong masculine polarity, ideally, which is not about being macho or some fake Jersey Shore tough guy wannabe. It just means centeredness and action--do that and you should hit both ends of the spectrum and they'll like you.

Insightful thought at that! It's really reassuring to know that some of the more effeminate guys are generating the most attraction. But I agree with you, I find it hard to connect with guys are a extremely masculine - seems a bit like a dick-measuring contest when everyone tries to one-up or out-alpha others in the group. About the fake sense of machismo... I never really bought into that either. I'm glad that you think that femininity has some utility in seduction.

Gem:
Thanks for sharing your story Gem, it was an excellent read

Also you’ve been working on your fundamentals a lot and working to improve your physique too and that’s HUGE and will help you a lot (both in looks and the added testosterone boost).

Definitely! I've been making small progress in weight gain. The few extra pounds don't seem like much, but it is a huge boost in confidence and masculinity for me.

But I erred too much in the tough guy direction because I went further than needed to. That was fine though; I could now start unraveling it a bit now. I would be more easily prone to having a girl auto reject because I was too tough or emotionally unavailable or not relatable enough.

Interesting point there. I do think there's some value in not seeming too masculine. I feel like that I'm not a particularly masculine person at heart... but as a result, I've found it easy to really connect with girls and establish fast rapport. Congruence tests, don't really seem to be a problem for me, and I suspect the reason for that is because I don't seem like too much of a threat. Sometimes I feel like have a slightly feminine vibe can be disarming and refreshing also.

Whichever side/qualities you are lacking in your own seduction and process: work to shore up those weak points. That’s deliberate practice by definition.

Amen!
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[Rusty]

Femininity and masculinity are not exclusive to female and male. Men can be feminine and women can be masculine, of course. And no one is 100% masculine, and 100% feminine.

I do have a different take than most men here...

Style and fashion are great. Keeping up with trends, if that's your thing, fine. It's not that important, and like DrexelScott said, it only matters for a small niche of women. If you have overall good style, all women will notice that and appreciate it, so that's a given.

However, I think you're innately drawn to being more feminine because of your natural disposition, hence the reason why you choose to dress the way you dress.

You can get away with dressing or looking flamboyant and skewed "feminine/metrosexual", but like others have said, you have to be masculine in your character. You can't be feminine in your core character. You have to polarize even more since your outward appearance is so feminine, otherwise you risk being labeled as gay/effeminate/weak/etc. It becomes that much more important that you have everything else down.

That polarity will make you even more attractive to women.

 

[jdoc]

Well, I think a complete human being is a fair balance of both, with a focus on the one they are born for.

Feminine = water, flow, emotion, adaptability

Masculine = rock, boundaries, cognition, firmness

A wise person will be able to play with both attributes, according to the situation at hand.

This is kick ass insight, Drexel. Never thought of it in this light.

You can get away with dressing or looking flamboyant and skewed "feminine/metrosexual", but like others have said, you have to be masculine in your character. You can't be feminine in your core character. You have to polarize even more since your outward appearance is so feminine, otherwise you risk being labeled as gay/effeminate/weak/etc. It becomes that much more important that you have everything else down.

I agree with this, something I'm working on.

That polarity will make you even more attractive to women.

Fuck yes. Glad to hear it!