This isn't about 'where I gamed wrong'. Would you guys care so much that these two conversation examples[I may add more later], the other person is literally wrong and won't admit it? Won't accept it? Won't change their viewpoint?
The first conversation is about a woman who flaked, and then even though she was in the wrong, calls me a dick when I call her out on it. Not only that, she was happy to meet when drinking the other night, but tonight thats an excuse not to meet.
The second conversation is an older woman who won't call a different woman shallow even though the woman we are talking about[not her] is shallow rejecting a guy on looks, yet she really fails to admit it even though its blaringly obvious she won't admit it.
I mean, now if I meet the woman from conversation one, how can I trust her when she acts like this, why would I want anything long term with someone like this, would most women act like this or would most keep the date or let you know ahead of time "hey drinking tonight lets reschedule." This whole I'll let you know rubbish annoys me so much. I'm aware Seppuku wrote how to handle it, and that's cool... but what % of women are like this and do I even want to be with someone like this?
But also I'm guessing you guys don't care about this, you'd just 'game' them right, and not "care" that they are completely 100% literally wrong and don't care if they change the viewpoints or not?
Conversation 1
Girl 1 from online not met yet
She wanted to meet another night when she was drinking but I was busy. Then recently she was drinking but didnt want to meet[last night iirc]. She did want to meet afew days ago but had her sister with her so I said no.
Today
her: I'll let you know what's happening tonight when mum gets home she shouldn't be too late
me: I get you now what time are you epxecting her
her: Probably in the nex hour or two I dunno
me: Haha ok and if not... that means not till sunday as youre busy saturday night going camping?Sunday I'm free Might not be camping Saturday t might be too wet
her: sunday im free
me: There has been a lot of rain lately haha
her: Yeha I know
me:
her: Haha
me: Haha did mum come home
her: Yeah just then
me: Rightio. So should I head down and we can meet each other in main street of xyz?
her :Tomorrow or Sunday I'm free Sunday would proabbly be better that way I have all day to hangout : )
me: What happened to tonight
her: Alcohol
me: Huh?
her: unsur if she said anything
me: But you said you'd let me know about tonight when mum got home. YOu said x and didnt keep it. how do i know you'll acftually be free on sat or sunday...? How do I know I weont start drinking on sat or sun or any other reason
You wont start drinking
her: I can't drink Saturday?
me: No ddue. Dude I dont know that .Im not a mind reader
her: Bruh I'm a drinking I have one or two eveyr now and agai who cares
me: Drinking is fine. TElling me you'll let meknow and then start drinkinh and saying we cant meet is what icare about... you said we can meet tonight then start drinking and suddentlt we cant meet.... because of your decision. if you planned to tdrink why didnt you sayso earlier and i wouldnt have kept tonighy free... doyou get that?? Do you understand??
her: Yeah I understand but you're soundling like a bit of a dick right now? I didn't plan on drinking if I did i would ahve told you. Iwant a drink because i like to haveon e and I dont always plan on having one sometimes it happens
me: Im stating facts. You still chose to drink and that means you dont want to meet or we still can... today with your dink?
her: Righto?
Me: Ok so 830?
Righto means letd meet tonight yeah?
Yes no maybe??
her: Nah you seem like ac ranky bloke mate
me: You said we could meet then just change your mind... didnt even let me know until I asked what happening... you said you'd let me know and you dint... you treat me like dirtand then callme a dick. its not very nice... do you do this with all guys?
Conversation 2
Girl 2 from online, way older not that keen but argued about stuff and she still wouldn't accept my opinion and change hers and keeps bringing it back
her: So funny, I'm watching a show on TV and it's about online dating scammers lol
me: Lol I like a good laugh eg sitcoms. But I think art is more, watch and talk , rather than watch and laugh. What do they say to be careful of
her: This woman met a guy online and then met him in person and he was completely different.. no hair, no teeth lol
me: Lol oh so shes shallow
her: No, he's a liar lol
All you have to go on is the pics - easy photoshop or cut and paste lol
I could be a man lol
me: Exactly... all you have to go on is pics as you say. So if she doesn't like a certain pic, she wont meet. Thats shallow
her: No, she did like pics and then met and he was completely different
me: No no, you're not getting it. If he put his different hair pics up, she would have said no, because he looked different .She never would have met him in the first place, right? so she sjudging him for how he looks..
her: It's called Swipe Right for Murder.
Yeah true, but why put pics that aren't you?
I mean you're going to have to explain eventually?
That's why I don't deceive with pics, honest and up front, like it or not lol
me: So lets stop for a second. You're being so judgemental here. You said no, its not shallow, he's a liar. I said , its still shallow. You said no. Now finally, you can see its shallow :/ Why did it take 3 goes for you to see what was really going on, she was being shallow... do you have a perception that women aren't shallow or something?
her: Ultimately he lied right? From the get go he uploaded pictures of 'himself' that were not 'himself' - lie.
I like arguing with you lol
Like going shopping...I see a product in a catalogue... I like it, I want it. I go into the store, it's not as displayed in the catalogue...
me: I'm not saying he isn't a liar. But again youre changing the point that we are talking about. The point is that she can moan all she wants he's a liar. But she never would have met him in the first place. So she's shallow. But again you want to focus on the liar part, the mans fault. How about focusing a bit on the woman, why is she so shallow?
her: Depends on whether her profile was accurate?
Was she being honest from the outset?
me: WTF. No. Got fuck all to do with it. fuck . stop talking right now and listen very carefully
She is shallow. Period. You just dont' want to shame her for it
her: Ok, no need to be aggressive.
me: No she is not shallow
her: She is honest
He is deceptive
Why does this touch a nerve with you
me: Define shallow? Judging someone by how they look, yes?
her: Yes, online dating is part profile pics, part wants and likes?
Be honest
her: You would initially scroll through and be drawn by looks?
me: Again you're changing the topic. Shallow is judging for how they look. She judged. Doesn't matter about profiles or any of this other shit you keep goingo n about. She judged him for he how looked and would not have met him if he looked like that in his proper photo. So she is shallow. Thats shallow. thats what shallow is.
her: Initially he approached her. She accepted. He manipulated her, told her what she wanted to hear based on her profile. She met him in person, discovered he looked nothing like the profile pic and nothing like the personality.
And you know what, maybe she would have met him if he put a honest profile up.
me: That's only a maybe. You mentioned the catalogue example. If his real photo was in the catalouge, she woulnd't have met him. Quite simple really. But because she's female and shallow, we can't have you shaming women, oh no, you can't accept that. shame the man to hell but if its a woman, you put your rose coloured glasses on and make excuses oh she would have met anyone. no she didint like what she saw, so if he was real photo in catalogue she would have passed . and then you go and say he manipulated her. again, you seem to make a HUGE deal out of that. you didn't even acknowledge that the woman was shallow .Why are you so agains shaming a shallow woman? Shes shallow .She meets the definition. Period but you dont like to hear it...
her: Ok
me: I had to point it out 3x times before you finally saw it and/or acknowledged it. Or maybe you did see it but just didn't want to acknolwedge it. Why, why why why?
her: If it makes you feel better yo are right. Why do you find it so hard to believe that 'some' men are so manipulative that they ruin others lives?
me: See here you go all over again. a weak acknowledgement you dont even believe it do you? and then quickly change back to shaming a man, and claiming that going on one date ruins a life wtf
her: Actually no weak acknowledgement.
I'm not shaming a man or woman.
me: Can't you see how you keep switching back to man shaming. You don't even care that she is shallow, do you? All you care about is making the guy look bad.... yeah? Like I said took me 3x times to get you to admit it. First two times oh its all the man, manipulative, so tell me this .Why do you find it so hard to accept that she was shallow
She met the shallow definition, but until I pointed it out, you didn't see it, why not? If you did, you didn't give a shit
her: Ouch
You seem to forget ultimately he lied before he approached her?
me: You're changing the topic AGAIN. I'm not saying he didn't lie. I've said that already. My point to YOU RIGHT NOW .... you didn't admit she was shallow until I pointed it out 3 times. Why? Answer the question dont keep avoiding it
her: On looks alone yes
On personality maybe not
Are you shallow?
me: No no. She was shallow. Period. Why did it take you 3x times to even see that .You can't even acknowledge that you have rose tinted glasses on. and you still keep tring to change the topic. why are you so against making a woman look bad. she was shallow. period
her: How many women are you seeing?
me: Stop changing the topic
You're avoiding my questions
her: Because you are a man
and I am a woman
And you have no idea what we have to deal with
The constant pressure
The perfection required
And if you are so angry with me then delete me.
me: So because you're female, you basically dont' want to admit, or call a shallow woman a shallow woman even though she meets the definition, that what you're saying to me?
her: What I'm saying is the particular guy presented himself in all trust to a vulnerable woman in a way he knew she would be attracted.
I acknowledge there are many shallow women out there.
I don't know them because I'm not one.
me: How did this man ruin her life by going on one date? That's your quote by the way.... tell me how? How does your quote make any actual sense, other than the objective of shaming him bigtime just because
her: I just hate seeing nice women ripped off or left emotionally stripped because some guy thinks it's fun to fuck over women.
me: They went on ONE FUCKING DATE
wtf
how does that fuck her over
far out
it doesnt
her: Before the actual date they were talking online for a year
He promised her all the fucking world
me: Well maybe if she wasn't so shallow she would have gotten it
True or if she wasn't so jaded by so many fucking guys ripping her off she would have had the strength to see the next shark coming.
me: She was shallow.
Didn't want to give him a chance, he wasnt good looking enough
Shallow
her: How many women have you dated from this site?
me: There you go again, you can't you HATE to acknowledge this and dont even want to focus on it, you instantly change topic
you even admitted earlier its because of all the pressure to be perfect
so thats all mens fault is it?
so lest screw men over
lets shame men
you're not young anymore and now get less attention from me so now its time to shame men, is that it?
fuck men, right? all their fault yeah?
hateful person you are
I really hope you never EVER serve in court
you wont look at FACTS you'll let your eomtions and prejudice get in the way
her: You are really mean.
In fact, I get too much attention from younger men which I do not like.
Congratulations on making me cry if that is what your agenda was.
me: You don't look at facts. You admitted before it was all the pressure, thats why you dont like calling her shallow and blame the man way more. you even said no when I asked first two times she is shallow you said no, twice. Now we find out you hate all the pressure to look good. Seems you have reasons to shame a man, not acknowledge , twice, that she was shallow even though seh 100% met the definition. I stand by my words. You should never serve in court
her: And yet you avoided my question on how many 'women' you have 'dated' from online sites.
And you felt the need to add a 'low blow' on my age.
I'm fine with my age thank you.
me: You only asked me that after I asked you about why you wont call a woman shallow. You at that point had not give reasons, you still kept changing topic
Once again, using topic changing tactics to get away from your lack of acknowledgement of her being shallow and answer the reason for it
her: I still maintain she is not shallow.
He is a liar.
me: I never said he wasn't a liar. Thats the difference between you and me. I look at all the facts. She is shallow. If she likes hair and he had no hair, she would have said no to him, right from the get go. THATS SHALLOW. but hey, we can't go arund admitting that now can we?
her: If she likes hair and he has none, he has no right to approach her
Seriously I look at facts all day for work.
me: You're changing topic again. If someone judges for hwo they look eg hair, thats shallow. Do you actually understand that
her: Sure I do. How do you judge the people you 'Chat' to?
me: Why are you turning this on me. You still can't admit she is shallow. you just said "i still admit she is not shallow". Tell me how she is not shallow. If he approaches her on the street, and says no thanks because he has no hair, thats judging him, yes, so she's shallow. Thats the facts. Yet you say thats not shallow. Thats exactly what shallow is.
her: Because he didn't approach her on the street. He 'sold' himself to her as a 'product' which did not deliver. You seem to have an issue with admitting you approach people based purely on looks.
me: I do approach based on looks. I never said I wasn't shallow. My problem with you is not acknowledging that she is shallow. street or internet is irrelevant. if she doesn't like no hair on guys, then she is shallow. She meets the definition... and seems unless you call me shallow you dont want ot admit that this other woman is shallow, even though its plain as day thats what she is lol. You even said its all the pressure of being a woman, shame the man, all his fault, but can't even admit she was shallow, when she is. thems the facts. she is shallow by looks. period. you just dont like hearing it
her: I'm not saying her outlook on what she finds attractive is shallow. What I am saying is the man who manipulated her 'likes attractive' is a liar.
me: You keep bringing this back to the man. She is shallow based on looks. I f someone rejects you because you have no hair, thats shallow based on looks.
Its plain as day
You just dont like it for some reason ,you cant accept that a woman is shallow, or you just want to blame the man because its all mens fault for the pressure women are under or something
She meets the shallow definition
Do I need to pull out a dictionary? She meets it
her: Actually no I love men.
me: This what I mean with the facts
You can't admit the facts if you don't like the facts
her: I do not like men who pretend they are something they are not.
I am a logical and lateral thinker.
There is more than 2 sides to every story.
me: No there isn't lol. You either lie, or you don't. You went through a red light, or you didn't. Look, and someone who rejects someone because they have no hair, is shallow for looks with hair.
her: If I invited you on a date and I looked completely different to my profile pics (remembering you admitted you you approach based on looks) would you still complete the date? Or feel betrayed.
me: If I felt 'betrayed', it would still make me shallow.
It wouldn't change the fact, that its shallow
her: Ok fair enough.
her: So I guess we will never go on a date lol
me: Do you see how just because the guy was a liar, does not change the fact that she is shallow?
her: Yes I do, but do you see how the guy is a manipulator?
me: Hang on hangon. Howcome you can see that now, but couldn't admit it the first 2 times? or even just recentl "i still dont acknowlege she is shallow" ???
her: It's relative - she may be perceived to be shallow due to media conditioning, but he is manipulative due to the same.
I'm open to opinions, and different views on subjects.
me: Sugar coating it saying its all relative... suddenly you may be willing to admit she is shallow but now its all relative. when you called him manipulative where was the relativeness? This is what I mean.... you happy shame a man but shaming a woman I have to argue to the max to even get you to admit it, then you say but its all relative. you wont give the shallow woman the same degree of negative connotations/ shaming name calling whatever as the man.
her: If a woman puts a profile online being very definate about what she wants, then a man approaches her with all the qualities she amazingly wanted in her profile it could be suspicious?
Maybe there are a lot of predatory women out there and I have no experience of it not being one.
me: See there you go again. Your sexist. you're saying men are predatory, and oh the poor woman. You can't admit she is shallow without saying 'but its all realtive' yet you'll happily say men are predatory without saying relative. you're sexist against men. you claim to like men but what people say is very different from what they do and think and your living proof. still can't admit the woman is shallow. i never said he wasnt a liar, but you continuously happily say its a big deal for the man to be a liar but its almost ok for the woman to be shallow. see how you're weighted against men.... yet claim to like them at the same time. your sexist. dont forget you said your reason is because of all the pressure women are under to look good or whatever. see you even gave me a hint that you are sexst and dont like things and happily shame men and find it hard to call a woman who judges a man for his looks, shallow
her: Well if you actually read my last comment I questioned the fact there may be a lot of predatory 'women' out there NOT MEN.
And if you don't think women are under an incredible amount of pressure from media etc. about their looks you are either deluded or buying into it.
me: So because women are under pressure its ok to not call women shallow when they're shallow?
her: I didn't say that.
me: YOU didn't SAY it but you've demonstrated it
her: I'm not a man, I have no idea how women after a relationship work
Maybe if I became Bi I would have more insight?
me: You demonstrated its ok to not call a woman shallow because you're under pressure as a woman yourself. This is what I mean... you won't look at facts. You'll go with 'under pressure feelings' and not call a spade a spade. she didnt go through a red light, shes under pressure. she did judge a man for having no hair, but we wont call her shallow even though thats the definition of shallow :/
her: Ok, but online dating - like online shopping - you didn't get what you 'ordered' 'paid for
me: You're not listening. you're changing the subject, or the object yet again..... I never said he wasn't a liar. thats not the subject. why can't you just admit she is shallow, 100%?
her: Ok I'll acknowledge she is shallow in relation to wanting what she signed up for?
me: She is shallow, period. If she saw the guy on the street, without having talked online, and he asked her out, shed say no. Thats shallow, right?
her: On the street in real life yes
On a site advertised no
me: Its still shallow.
Thats the definiton of shallow.
I can't work out if you enjoy arguing with me because its 'fun' or if you literally dont get it
her: Seriously? I don't argue for fun.
I have my opinion and refuse to give it up.
me: You said before arguing with me was fun
her: If it is arguing to agree to disagree.
If she met a guy and he looked different, then he's a liar with the photo. It doesn't change the fact that she doesn't date men with no hair. So its irrlevent where they met or if he adds hair to his photo. He lied .Doesn't change the fact that, on the street or online, she wont talk to guys with no hair. Thats shallow. Now do you understand?
So we agree she is shallow and he is a liar?
me: You don't agree she is shallow online. she doesn't date guys with no hair. its irrelevant if a guy talks to her on the street or online, no hair means no date, means she is shallow.
her: Actually, it is the deception I have a problem with.
me: We're not focusing on that. She is shallow
You can't admit she is shallow online
She goes for hair. I didn't say he wasn't a liar. You're still not getting it
her: No she is selective. You are selective? I am selective.
me: Nup. Thats shallow. You said its shallow on the street but not online
Happy to call me shallow but not your female friend
you change the definition from shallow to selective to suit your needs so you dont shame your female friend
her: Well I dont' have many female friends.
Probably why I don't have a male partner either.
me: Doesn't change any facts
She is shallow. But anytime you get close to saying it, you always sugar coat it to make it sound 'ok'. shes not shallow, shes selective. yet you wont call the man "selective" manipulative, you call him a predator :/ see howw your biased against men and not women? sugar coat it so women dont feel bad, because they're under so much pressure we can't call them shallow when they're shallow , men are shallow but women are selective :/ men are predators and manipulative but women aren't shallow they're sleective :/
her: True, I am probably influenced by my own personal experience and those close to me. I haven't experienced a healthy relationship in a long time and neither has some of my friends. Extended manipulative behaviour does cloud healthy relationship expectations.
me: It coulds your judgement. this si what i mean when you dont look at facts. you say you do, but you dont
she is shallow. period. but you fight tooth and nail to not give her that label
her: Everyone is shallow.
Whether they are aware of it or not is a different matter.
me: So why couldn't you call her that. see thereyo ugo again, your devaluing the negative connotations of the the word shallow. happily call a guy manipulative but dont make it sound nice saying everyone is manipulative, no, you just call men manipulative. but calling a woman shallow, oh shes under pressure, oh shes selective. why dont you call a spade a spade instead of being sexist and sugar coating it for women
her: Probably because I'm personalising it and I'm so far removed from that type.
me: See, you say you look at facts but you dont. you 'personalise it' as you say:/
her: Ah well crucify me I'm human and a soft woman
me: No its actually serious. If you goto court and do jury duty, you'll put someone behind bars because you'll "personalise it" instead of going with the facts. Or you'll report something thta didn't happen because youre "personalising it" instead of going with the facts. its quite serious
her: Actually no. My personal life and 'soft' side does not interfere with my work side. I work in a corporate compliance capacity with an extremely high level of final say on major Government policies, so I can guarantee jury duty will be fine thank you.
me: You said you look at the facts. You then said you personalise it. This is again one of those times you think you can be unbiased but you can't, you 've demonstrated it, and you don't lik ehearing it so you stomp your feet say no i wont do that thankyou even though you have here in this chat. "I look at facts" then admit you personalise it.
her: So you are looking for a woman who is fact driven? No personalisation? Show me one woman who doesn't look at both. I don't stomp my feet lol, believe me I'm the least angry female on this planet lol. I don't need to stomp my feet, I just use the to keep walking. If you dislike me so much feel free to delete me x
me: If you can't see that dating men only who have hair is shallow you can't be helped. You're not looking at the facts
her: It's not the physical looks it's the deception - lying to someone telling them a false career, likes, history etc to manipulate them is cruel.
me: I'm not saying the guy isn't a liar. We've been over this. We agree he lied. Because, he lied ,its a fact. Just like its a fact she is shallow. Even if he didnt lie, she is still shallow for only dating guys with hair. Get it?
her: Yes I get it. He lied but she was willing to believe the lies for her own selfish expectations.
Anyway, back to the show - he ended up murdering her.
me: Its irrlevant to the fact she was shallow. Thats all I care about, is she was shallow but you won't call her shallow
The guy lied, I call him a liar. But she's shallow, you won't call her shallow
her: I will call her shallow on choosing on looks but not personality.
me: How about just calling her shallow, because she's shallow?
her: Ok then she is shallow.
me: I'd like to hear that again just to be sure I heard you right? You're saying yes, she is shallow
her: Let me say again for you then...She is shallow.
me: That's good to hear
her: Your welcome
me: Did you enjoy our chats aout that over the last few days
her: Yes and no. Healthy debate is good.
me: I dunno, I think it stresses me too much
her: Fair call. Understand. Feel free to take me off your contacts x
I don't want to stress you out, last think I would want.
me: Then why did it take 3 days of arguing for you to see that shallow is shallow no matter what the gender etc
her: Possibly I'm stubborn. Probably from years of being not given a voice.
Sorry
me: But how is that my fault or anyones fault that you've never met... its just not calling a spade a spade, its clouding the judgement , can you see how from my view its hard to accept. eg you should always call a spade a spade, because thats what it is.
her: It's no ones fault. People can become influenced by past experiences.I agree it shouldn't cloud their opinions moving forward. I have a bad habit of giving people benefit of the doubt and not judging too harshly. I like to be pulled up though and shown a different perspective. Only way to learn and grow.
me: But you judged the guy very harshly, called a spade a spade, but when it ccame to the woman, you judged very lightly, reluctant to call a spade a spade
Give the woman benefit of doubt but not the man
her: My judgement was clouded by the fact I was already aware of his ultimate intention which was to murder the woman.
Also, even though history or past should not come in to it, I have terrible experiences of men and my judgement was so off the mark.
me: so if a woman says rape your just gonna assume thats what happened instead of looking at facts
her: No definately not. Women can be extremely manipulative and untrustworthy. Not all women, but there are a lot who change their mind to suit their circumstance. I don't have many female friends because it's hard to find a genuine one not out for their own selfish needs.
me: Ok
The first conversation is about a woman who flaked, and then even though she was in the wrong, calls me a dick when I call her out on it. Not only that, she was happy to meet when drinking the other night, but tonight thats an excuse not to meet.
The second conversation is an older woman who won't call a different woman shallow even though the woman we are talking about[not her] is shallow rejecting a guy on looks, yet she really fails to admit it even though its blaringly obvious she won't admit it.
I mean, now if I meet the woman from conversation one, how can I trust her when she acts like this, why would I want anything long term with someone like this, would most women act like this or would most keep the date or let you know ahead of time "hey drinking tonight lets reschedule." This whole I'll let you know rubbish annoys me so much. I'm aware Seppuku wrote how to handle it, and that's cool... but what % of women are like this and do I even want to be with someone like this?
But also I'm guessing you guys don't care about this, you'd just 'game' them right, and not "care" that they are completely 100% literally wrong and don't care if they change the viewpoints or not?
Conversation 1
Girl 1 from online not met yet
She wanted to meet another night when she was drinking but I was busy. Then recently she was drinking but didnt want to meet[last night iirc]. She did want to meet afew days ago but had her sister with her so I said no.
Today
her: I'll let you know what's happening tonight when mum gets home she shouldn't be too late
me: I get you now what time are you epxecting her
her: Probably in the nex hour or two I dunno
me: Haha ok and if not... that means not till sunday as youre busy saturday night going camping?Sunday I'm free Might not be camping Saturday t might be too wet
her: sunday im free
me: There has been a lot of rain lately haha
her: Yeha I know
me:
her: Haha
me: Haha did mum come home
her: Yeah just then
me: Rightio. So should I head down and we can meet each other in main street of xyz?
her :Tomorrow or Sunday I'm free Sunday would proabbly be better that way I have all day to hangout : )
me: What happened to tonight
her: Alcohol
me: Huh?
her: unsur if she said anything
me: But you said you'd let me know about tonight when mum got home. YOu said x and didnt keep it. how do i know you'll acftually be free on sat or sunday...? How do I know I weont start drinking on sat or sun or any other reason
You wont start drinking
her: I can't drink Saturday?
me: No ddue. Dude I dont know that .Im not a mind reader
her: Bruh I'm a drinking I have one or two eveyr now and agai who cares
me: Drinking is fine. TElling me you'll let meknow and then start drinkinh and saying we cant meet is what icare about... you said we can meet tonight then start drinking and suddentlt we cant meet.... because of your decision. if you planned to tdrink why didnt you sayso earlier and i wouldnt have kept tonighy free... doyou get that?? Do you understand??
her: Yeah I understand but you're soundling like a bit of a dick right now? I didn't plan on drinking if I did i would ahve told you. Iwant a drink because i like to haveon e and I dont always plan on having one sometimes it happens
me: Im stating facts. You still chose to drink and that means you dont want to meet or we still can... today with your dink?
her: Righto?
Me: Ok so 830?
Righto means letd meet tonight yeah?
Yes no maybe??
her: Nah you seem like ac ranky bloke mate
me: You said we could meet then just change your mind... didnt even let me know until I asked what happening... you said you'd let me know and you dint... you treat me like dirtand then callme a dick. its not very nice... do you do this with all guys?
Conversation 2
Girl 2 from online, way older not that keen but argued about stuff and she still wouldn't accept my opinion and change hers and keeps bringing it back
her: So funny, I'm watching a show on TV and it's about online dating scammers lol
me: Lol I like a good laugh eg sitcoms. But I think art is more, watch and talk , rather than watch and laugh. What do they say to be careful of
her: This woman met a guy online and then met him in person and he was completely different.. no hair, no teeth lol
me: Lol oh so shes shallow
her: No, he's a liar lol
All you have to go on is the pics - easy photoshop or cut and paste lol
I could be a man lol
me: Exactly... all you have to go on is pics as you say. So if she doesn't like a certain pic, she wont meet. Thats shallow
her: No, she did like pics and then met and he was completely different
me: No no, you're not getting it. If he put his different hair pics up, she would have said no, because he looked different .She never would have met him in the first place, right? so she sjudging him for how he looks..
her: It's called Swipe Right for Murder.
Yeah true, but why put pics that aren't you?
I mean you're going to have to explain eventually?
That's why I don't deceive with pics, honest and up front, like it or not lol
me: So lets stop for a second. You're being so judgemental here. You said no, its not shallow, he's a liar. I said , its still shallow. You said no. Now finally, you can see its shallow :/ Why did it take 3 goes for you to see what was really going on, she was being shallow... do you have a perception that women aren't shallow or something?
her: Ultimately he lied right? From the get go he uploaded pictures of 'himself' that were not 'himself' - lie.
I like arguing with you lol
Like going shopping...I see a product in a catalogue... I like it, I want it. I go into the store, it's not as displayed in the catalogue...
me: I'm not saying he isn't a liar. But again youre changing the point that we are talking about. The point is that she can moan all she wants he's a liar. But she never would have met him in the first place. So she's shallow. But again you want to focus on the liar part, the mans fault. How about focusing a bit on the woman, why is she so shallow?
her: Depends on whether her profile was accurate?
Was she being honest from the outset?
me: WTF. No. Got fuck all to do with it. fuck . stop talking right now and listen very carefully
She is shallow. Period. You just dont' want to shame her for it
her: Ok, no need to be aggressive.
me: No she is not shallow
her: She is honest
He is deceptive
Why does this touch a nerve with you
me: Define shallow? Judging someone by how they look, yes?
her: Yes, online dating is part profile pics, part wants and likes?
Be honest
her: You would initially scroll through and be drawn by looks?
me: Again you're changing the topic. Shallow is judging for how they look. She judged. Doesn't matter about profiles or any of this other shit you keep goingo n about. She judged him for he how looked and would not have met him if he looked like that in his proper photo. So she is shallow. Thats shallow. thats what shallow is.
her: Initially he approached her. She accepted. He manipulated her, told her what she wanted to hear based on her profile. She met him in person, discovered he looked nothing like the profile pic and nothing like the personality.
And you know what, maybe she would have met him if he put a honest profile up.
me: That's only a maybe. You mentioned the catalogue example. If his real photo was in the catalouge, she woulnd't have met him. Quite simple really. But because she's female and shallow, we can't have you shaming women, oh no, you can't accept that. shame the man to hell but if its a woman, you put your rose coloured glasses on and make excuses oh she would have met anyone. no she didint like what she saw, so if he was real photo in catalogue she would have passed . and then you go and say he manipulated her. again, you seem to make a HUGE deal out of that. you didn't even acknowledge that the woman was shallow .Why are you so agains shaming a shallow woman? Shes shallow .She meets the definition. Period but you dont like to hear it...
her: Ok
me: I had to point it out 3x times before you finally saw it and/or acknowledged it. Or maybe you did see it but just didn't want to acknolwedge it. Why, why why why?
her: If it makes you feel better yo are right. Why do you find it so hard to believe that 'some' men are so manipulative that they ruin others lives?
me: See here you go all over again. a weak acknowledgement you dont even believe it do you? and then quickly change back to shaming a man, and claiming that going on one date ruins a life wtf
her: Actually no weak acknowledgement.
I'm not shaming a man or woman.
me: Can't you see how you keep switching back to man shaming. You don't even care that she is shallow, do you? All you care about is making the guy look bad.... yeah? Like I said took me 3x times to get you to admit it. First two times oh its all the man, manipulative, so tell me this .Why do you find it so hard to accept that she was shallow
She met the shallow definition, but until I pointed it out, you didn't see it, why not? If you did, you didn't give a shit
her: Ouch
You seem to forget ultimately he lied before he approached her?
me: You're changing the topic AGAIN. I'm not saying he didn't lie. I've said that already. My point to YOU RIGHT NOW .... you didn't admit she was shallow until I pointed it out 3 times. Why? Answer the question dont keep avoiding it
her: On looks alone yes
On personality maybe not
Are you shallow?
me: No no. She was shallow. Period. Why did it take you 3x times to even see that .You can't even acknowledge that you have rose tinted glasses on. and you still keep tring to change the topic. why are you so against making a woman look bad. she was shallow. period
her: How many women are you seeing?
me: Stop changing the topic
You're avoiding my questions
her: Because you are a man
and I am a woman
And you have no idea what we have to deal with
The constant pressure
The perfection required
And if you are so angry with me then delete me.
me: So because you're female, you basically dont' want to admit, or call a shallow woman a shallow woman even though she meets the definition, that what you're saying to me?
her: What I'm saying is the particular guy presented himself in all trust to a vulnerable woman in a way he knew she would be attracted.
I acknowledge there are many shallow women out there.
I don't know them because I'm not one.
me: How did this man ruin her life by going on one date? That's your quote by the way.... tell me how? How does your quote make any actual sense, other than the objective of shaming him bigtime just because
her: I just hate seeing nice women ripped off or left emotionally stripped because some guy thinks it's fun to fuck over women.
me: They went on ONE FUCKING DATE
wtf
how does that fuck her over
far out
it doesnt
her: Before the actual date they were talking online for a year
He promised her all the fucking world
me: Well maybe if she wasn't so shallow she would have gotten it
True or if she wasn't so jaded by so many fucking guys ripping her off she would have had the strength to see the next shark coming.
me: She was shallow.
Didn't want to give him a chance, he wasnt good looking enough
Shallow
her: How many women have you dated from this site?
me: There you go again, you can't you HATE to acknowledge this and dont even want to focus on it, you instantly change topic
you even admitted earlier its because of all the pressure to be perfect
so thats all mens fault is it?
so lest screw men over
lets shame men
you're not young anymore and now get less attention from me so now its time to shame men, is that it?
fuck men, right? all their fault yeah?
hateful person you are
I really hope you never EVER serve in court
you wont look at FACTS you'll let your eomtions and prejudice get in the way
her: You are really mean.
In fact, I get too much attention from younger men which I do not like.
Congratulations on making me cry if that is what your agenda was.
me: You don't look at facts. You admitted before it was all the pressure, thats why you dont like calling her shallow and blame the man way more. you even said no when I asked first two times she is shallow you said no, twice. Now we find out you hate all the pressure to look good. Seems you have reasons to shame a man, not acknowledge , twice, that she was shallow even though seh 100% met the definition. I stand by my words. You should never serve in court
her: And yet you avoided my question on how many 'women' you have 'dated' from online sites.
And you felt the need to add a 'low blow' on my age.
I'm fine with my age thank you.
me: You only asked me that after I asked you about why you wont call a woman shallow. You at that point had not give reasons, you still kept changing topic
Once again, using topic changing tactics to get away from your lack of acknowledgement of her being shallow and answer the reason for it
her: I still maintain she is not shallow.
He is a liar.
me: I never said he wasn't a liar. Thats the difference between you and me. I look at all the facts. She is shallow. If she likes hair and he had no hair, she would have said no to him, right from the get go. THATS SHALLOW. but hey, we can't go arund admitting that now can we?
her: If she likes hair and he has none, he has no right to approach her
Seriously I look at facts all day for work.
me: You're changing topic again. If someone judges for hwo they look eg hair, thats shallow. Do you actually understand that
her: Sure I do. How do you judge the people you 'Chat' to?
me: Why are you turning this on me. You still can't admit she is shallow. you just said "i still admit she is not shallow". Tell me how she is not shallow. If he approaches her on the street, and says no thanks because he has no hair, thats judging him, yes, so she's shallow. Thats the facts. Yet you say thats not shallow. Thats exactly what shallow is.
her: Because he didn't approach her on the street. He 'sold' himself to her as a 'product' which did not deliver. You seem to have an issue with admitting you approach people based purely on looks.
me: I do approach based on looks. I never said I wasn't shallow. My problem with you is not acknowledging that she is shallow. street or internet is irrelevant. if she doesn't like no hair on guys, then she is shallow. She meets the definition... and seems unless you call me shallow you dont want ot admit that this other woman is shallow, even though its plain as day thats what she is lol. You even said its all the pressure of being a woman, shame the man, all his fault, but can't even admit she was shallow, when she is. thems the facts. she is shallow by looks. period. you just dont like hearing it
her: I'm not saying her outlook on what she finds attractive is shallow. What I am saying is the man who manipulated her 'likes attractive' is a liar.
me: You keep bringing this back to the man. She is shallow based on looks. I f someone rejects you because you have no hair, thats shallow based on looks.
Its plain as day
You just dont like it for some reason ,you cant accept that a woman is shallow, or you just want to blame the man because its all mens fault for the pressure women are under or something
She meets the shallow definition
Do I need to pull out a dictionary? She meets it
her: Actually no I love men.
me: This what I mean with the facts
You can't admit the facts if you don't like the facts
her: I do not like men who pretend they are something they are not.
I am a logical and lateral thinker.
There is more than 2 sides to every story.
me: No there isn't lol. You either lie, or you don't. You went through a red light, or you didn't. Look, and someone who rejects someone because they have no hair, is shallow for looks with hair.
her: If I invited you on a date and I looked completely different to my profile pics (remembering you admitted you you approach based on looks) would you still complete the date? Or feel betrayed.
me: If I felt 'betrayed', it would still make me shallow.
It wouldn't change the fact, that its shallow
her: Ok fair enough.
her: So I guess we will never go on a date lol
me: Do you see how just because the guy was a liar, does not change the fact that she is shallow?
her: Yes I do, but do you see how the guy is a manipulator?
me: Hang on hangon. Howcome you can see that now, but couldn't admit it the first 2 times? or even just recentl "i still dont acknowlege she is shallow" ???
her: It's relative - she may be perceived to be shallow due to media conditioning, but he is manipulative due to the same.
I'm open to opinions, and different views on subjects.
me: Sugar coating it saying its all relative... suddenly you may be willing to admit she is shallow but now its all relative. when you called him manipulative where was the relativeness? This is what I mean.... you happy shame a man but shaming a woman I have to argue to the max to even get you to admit it, then you say but its all relative. you wont give the shallow woman the same degree of negative connotations/ shaming name calling whatever as the man.
her: If a woman puts a profile online being very definate about what she wants, then a man approaches her with all the qualities she amazingly wanted in her profile it could be suspicious?
Maybe there are a lot of predatory women out there and I have no experience of it not being one.
me: See there you go again. Your sexist. you're saying men are predatory, and oh the poor woman. You can't admit she is shallow without saying 'but its all realtive' yet you'll happily say men are predatory without saying relative. you're sexist against men. you claim to like men but what people say is very different from what they do and think and your living proof. still can't admit the woman is shallow. i never said he wasnt a liar, but you continuously happily say its a big deal for the man to be a liar but its almost ok for the woman to be shallow. see how you're weighted against men.... yet claim to like them at the same time. your sexist. dont forget you said your reason is because of all the pressure women are under to look good or whatever. see you even gave me a hint that you are sexst and dont like things and happily shame men and find it hard to call a woman who judges a man for his looks, shallow
her: Well if you actually read my last comment I questioned the fact there may be a lot of predatory 'women' out there NOT MEN.
And if you don't think women are under an incredible amount of pressure from media etc. about their looks you are either deluded or buying into it.
me: So because women are under pressure its ok to not call women shallow when they're shallow?
her: I didn't say that.
me: YOU didn't SAY it but you've demonstrated it
her: I'm not a man, I have no idea how women after a relationship work
Maybe if I became Bi I would have more insight?
me: You demonstrated its ok to not call a woman shallow because you're under pressure as a woman yourself. This is what I mean... you won't look at facts. You'll go with 'under pressure feelings' and not call a spade a spade. she didnt go through a red light, shes under pressure. she did judge a man for having no hair, but we wont call her shallow even though thats the definition of shallow :/
her: Ok, but online dating - like online shopping - you didn't get what you 'ordered' 'paid for
me: You're not listening. you're changing the subject, or the object yet again..... I never said he wasn't a liar. thats not the subject. why can't you just admit she is shallow, 100%?
her: Ok I'll acknowledge she is shallow in relation to wanting what she signed up for?
me: She is shallow, period. If she saw the guy on the street, without having talked online, and he asked her out, shed say no. Thats shallow, right?
her: On the street in real life yes
On a site advertised no
me: Its still shallow.
Thats the definiton of shallow.
I can't work out if you enjoy arguing with me because its 'fun' or if you literally dont get it
her: Seriously? I don't argue for fun.
I have my opinion and refuse to give it up.
me: You said before arguing with me was fun
her: If it is arguing to agree to disagree.
If she met a guy and he looked different, then he's a liar with the photo. It doesn't change the fact that she doesn't date men with no hair. So its irrlevent where they met or if he adds hair to his photo. He lied .Doesn't change the fact that, on the street or online, she wont talk to guys with no hair. Thats shallow. Now do you understand?
So we agree she is shallow and he is a liar?
me: You don't agree she is shallow online. she doesn't date guys with no hair. its irrelevant if a guy talks to her on the street or online, no hair means no date, means she is shallow.
her: Actually, it is the deception I have a problem with.
me: We're not focusing on that. She is shallow
You can't admit she is shallow online
She goes for hair. I didn't say he wasn't a liar. You're still not getting it
her: No she is selective. You are selective? I am selective.
me: Nup. Thats shallow. You said its shallow on the street but not online
Happy to call me shallow but not your female friend
you change the definition from shallow to selective to suit your needs so you dont shame your female friend
her: Well I dont' have many female friends.
Probably why I don't have a male partner either.
me: Doesn't change any facts
She is shallow. But anytime you get close to saying it, you always sugar coat it to make it sound 'ok'. shes not shallow, shes selective. yet you wont call the man "selective" manipulative, you call him a predator :/ see howw your biased against men and not women? sugar coat it so women dont feel bad, because they're under so much pressure we can't call them shallow when they're shallow , men are shallow but women are selective :/ men are predators and manipulative but women aren't shallow they're sleective :/
her: True, I am probably influenced by my own personal experience and those close to me. I haven't experienced a healthy relationship in a long time and neither has some of my friends. Extended manipulative behaviour does cloud healthy relationship expectations.
me: It coulds your judgement. this si what i mean when you dont look at facts. you say you do, but you dont
she is shallow. period. but you fight tooth and nail to not give her that label
her: Everyone is shallow.
Whether they are aware of it or not is a different matter.
me: So why couldn't you call her that. see thereyo ugo again, your devaluing the negative connotations of the the word shallow. happily call a guy manipulative but dont make it sound nice saying everyone is manipulative, no, you just call men manipulative. but calling a woman shallow, oh shes under pressure, oh shes selective. why dont you call a spade a spade instead of being sexist and sugar coating it for women
her: Probably because I'm personalising it and I'm so far removed from that type.
me: See, you say you look at facts but you dont. you 'personalise it' as you say:/
her: Ah well crucify me I'm human and a soft woman
me: No its actually serious. If you goto court and do jury duty, you'll put someone behind bars because you'll "personalise it" instead of going with the facts. Or you'll report something thta didn't happen because youre "personalising it" instead of going with the facts. its quite serious
her: Actually no. My personal life and 'soft' side does not interfere with my work side. I work in a corporate compliance capacity with an extremely high level of final say on major Government policies, so I can guarantee jury duty will be fine thank you.
me: You said you look at the facts. You then said you personalise it. This is again one of those times you think you can be unbiased but you can't, you 've demonstrated it, and you don't lik ehearing it so you stomp your feet say no i wont do that thankyou even though you have here in this chat. "I look at facts" then admit you personalise it.
her: So you are looking for a woman who is fact driven? No personalisation? Show me one woman who doesn't look at both. I don't stomp my feet lol, believe me I'm the least angry female on this planet lol. I don't need to stomp my feet, I just use the to keep walking. If you dislike me so much feel free to delete me x
me: If you can't see that dating men only who have hair is shallow you can't be helped. You're not looking at the facts
her: It's not the physical looks it's the deception - lying to someone telling them a false career, likes, history etc to manipulate them is cruel.
me: I'm not saying the guy isn't a liar. We've been over this. We agree he lied. Because, he lied ,its a fact. Just like its a fact she is shallow. Even if he didnt lie, she is still shallow for only dating guys with hair. Get it?
her: Yes I get it. He lied but she was willing to believe the lies for her own selfish expectations.
Anyway, back to the show - he ended up murdering her.
me: Its irrlevant to the fact she was shallow. Thats all I care about, is she was shallow but you won't call her shallow
The guy lied, I call him a liar. But she's shallow, you won't call her shallow
her: I will call her shallow on choosing on looks but not personality.
me: How about just calling her shallow, because she's shallow?
her: Ok then she is shallow.
me: I'd like to hear that again just to be sure I heard you right? You're saying yes, she is shallow
her: Let me say again for you then...She is shallow.
me: That's good to hear
her: Your welcome
me: Did you enjoy our chats aout that over the last few days
her: Yes and no. Healthy debate is good.
me: I dunno, I think it stresses me too much
her: Fair call. Understand. Feel free to take me off your contacts x
I don't want to stress you out, last think I would want.
me: Then why did it take 3 days of arguing for you to see that shallow is shallow no matter what the gender etc
her: Possibly I'm stubborn. Probably from years of being not given a voice.
Sorry
me: But how is that my fault or anyones fault that you've never met... its just not calling a spade a spade, its clouding the judgement , can you see how from my view its hard to accept. eg you should always call a spade a spade, because thats what it is.
her: It's no ones fault. People can become influenced by past experiences.I agree it shouldn't cloud their opinions moving forward. I have a bad habit of giving people benefit of the doubt and not judging too harshly. I like to be pulled up though and shown a different perspective. Only way to learn and grow.
me: But you judged the guy very harshly, called a spade a spade, but when it ccame to the woman, you judged very lightly, reluctant to call a spade a spade
Give the woman benefit of doubt but not the man
her: My judgement was clouded by the fact I was already aware of his ultimate intention which was to murder the woman.
Also, even though history or past should not come in to it, I have terrible experiences of men and my judgement was so off the mark.
me: so if a woman says rape your just gonna assume thats what happened instead of looking at facts
her: No definately not. Women can be extremely manipulative and untrustworthy. Not all women, but there are a lot who change their mind to suit their circumstance. I don't have many female friends because it's hard to find a genuine one not out for their own selfish needs.
me: Ok
