Implicit Expectations and Setting Strong Boundaries

[Bboy100]

When it comes to setting boundaries, there are certain situations which are very black and white:
- If someone disrespects you for no reason, you tell them to knock it off.
- If someone is manipulating or abusing you, tell them to knock it off.
- If someone is asking something unreasonable of you, you say no.
...and so on.
These are pretty easy to deal with.


But I've recently realized that there are certain situations in which "proper boundaries" are a gray area. In other words, its difficult for me to tell weather me demanding that they do or don't do something other than the way they're behaving is overstepping MY boundaries. Or if I'm in the right and I should set boundaries as normal. Here are some recent examples from my life of these types of situations:

- An aggressive and very direct co-worker of mine straight up laughed in my face and said "you're not gonna make it three months doing this job!" She didn't say it to insult me. She was just letting me know what she thought. To her, statements like these are completely normal.

I got pretty pissed off/felt kind of disrespected. But am I right to feel that way? She might be a refreshing change to our culture of "smile and be polite to people in person, then go talk shit about them behind their back". In a way, I respect what she did. But at the same time, I feel like there was still no reason for her to say that and its not cool. So would it be appropriate for me to let her know that that's disrespectful? Or should I appreciate her for letting me know upfront?

Moreover, this type of behavior is part of her personality. She's not saying it from a place of malice. She's just being herself. So telling her "that's disrespectful, don't do it again" is in a way, telling her "don't be yourself. Be someone else".

- I was at a rave with a girl I casually see every once in a while. We don't even live in the same city, so we very rarely see each other. She's straight up told me she sleeps with other guys before. And although I've never directly said it, it's very heavily implied that I sleep with other girls. So at the rave, a guy came up to her and chatted her up. In front of me, she flirted with him, then gave him her number.

I felt pretty jealous here, and a little emasculated/disrespected. But again...I did nothing. Why? Because she has her freedom right? I mean, we're not doing anything even near a committed relationship. So me demanding any type of loyalty from her could just come off as needy or insecure.

On the flip side of that coin, I feel like even IF its implied that we're sleeping with other people, does she not owe me the courtesy to not blatantly hit on other guys in front of me? Especially since I've spent most the night so far with her.

I don't know the answer to that question.

- A certain group of friends I have never hits me up to go out with them. When I see them, they're always happy to hang out with me. I invite them out to do stuff with me etc. Also, I've known these guys for the past 19 years. But we drifted apart a little bit while I was in college. We're still good friends though. We talk pretty often, see each other every once in a while etc.But oftentimes, they seem to (probably unintentionally) exclude me. Like, they'll either forgot or just not think to let me know that they're going out.

I feel pretty angry because 19 years of friendship means maybe I'm allowed to expect that they would invite me to hang out with them? But at the same time...they don't owe me anything. If they don't want/ don't remember to hang out with me, it's not my place to make them.

So in this case, should I call them out on why they're not inviting me out? Or does that also seem needy/insecure?

And a bunch of other similar examples (which I can't think of off the top of my head). The basic theme is thus: I feel disrespected or I don't like what someone is doing. But I'm not sure if I'm right to expect them to behave otherwise. They have their own autonomy and their own freedom. Therefore, I feel like having an implicit expectations of behavior is a form of false entitlement on my part. But at the same time, there is some aspect of our interaction or relationship which might suggest that its owed me that they don't do/say the things in question.


Moreover, I feel like a lot of my explanations for their behavior might be rationalizations on my part. For example, lets take the first example with my co worker. I say she's "just being honest". Which is true. But that could also be a sketchy explanation. Because "being honest" is not a good excuse for insulting me. So maybe the only reason I'm giving these reasons to defend their behavior is because I'm trying to avoid having to confront these people/call them out?

Hopefully, that all makes sense haha.

Let me know what you guys think

 

[Fuck This]

Rave Girl: Why bring a date/ commit yourself to one woman at a place with high target density? It would be more disrespectful for her to do that while on a one on one date. That would require an objection...

Friends; Don't wait for an invite. Invite them yourself. Call tem up and say "i'm going to club XYZ". If they are really your friends they will say "hey we are all going to Club ABC. Come join us, we have a table reserved. "

Elenor Roosevelt, that horsefaced old bat, had it right when she said "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent."

 

[Bboy100]

TwoRocky,

Those are some good insights (although tbh, I was at the Rave to have fun and chill with my friends. Getting laid was not a priority, which is why I met up with this girl instead of chatting up new ones). Having said that, I feel like this doesn't really answer the question. The three things I listed in my OP were merely examples of what I was trying to describe- my inability to figure out what proper boundaries are in some situations.

Having that about it more...maybe there is no such thing as "proper boundaries". Perhaps its all subjective, and if there's a disagreement, its just a matter of who's frame is strongest?

 

[WayOfHand]

I think all these boundaries are purely subjective. Why would anyone owe you anything? I think that almost any question related to these boundaries can be turned back on yourself. If you feel pissed at something someone did to you, consider wether you have done everything in your power to make it the other way.

For example with the rave girl. Did you girlfriend her in time so she won't talk to other guys? No. Then dont expect anything less.

With your friends. Could you have kept better contact with them? Of course. So dont expect anything more.

I'm not trying to be misogynist here. Can you expect things from people? Yes I think you can and should, otherwise its hard to function. Can you get butthurt if your expectations aren't met? In most cases not. Its not like anyone is acting against their best judgement. They act what they feel correct to the situation. And usually its not to intentionally harm you, or if it is its most likely also caused by you.

If you wan't to change the resolution either work on your own expectations or work towards changing theirs.

 

[nolimits]

Hey Guys,

Good questions.

This is something I sometimes struggle with too.

And in the case of what you've been writing above, both of you have good points.

Yes, taking responsibility for yourself is fundamental.

But this doesn't mean you shouldn't have boundaries. They just go hand in hand.

For instance, I'm struggling now with an old friend of mine.

He is making a lot of money with real estate, but that's because his parents lend him a huge amount of money to start with. He is generally lazy and have lying tendencies, though at times can be really fun to hang out with.

Me, I'm more into long term power. I want to make it all bymyself and become a performer. I'm a genuine guy who can't see why people aren't always supportive (in their friendships ).

The deal with this 'friend' of mine is I feel that instead of recognizing that he is lazy and isn't doing as much as he could, he keeps on trying to one up me during our conversations.
This doesn't mean he manages to do that but I still feel miserable each time I end talking to him.

Here's the deal with Boundaries and Taking Full Responsibility.

Would pointing out his behavior ( which is scary, as open communication always is) help?

Maybe, but more likely, maybe not. If I said 'hey man, I feel like you're trying to one up me because you're subconsciously envious that I am an action taker and you aren't ', it might help in the moment (would it?), but the guy would resume his behavior after a couple weeks.

So, setting a boundary here would be: I will stop answering to this guy each time he calls. And if he calls million times to know why I stopped answering to him, I will give a brief, clear explanation on why I quit talking to him. (which takes guts to pull off)

So, in any case the message is one: YES, There are behaviors you can't tolerate. And when you identify them, go to the root cause.
Ask yourself, 'Why am I tolerating these behaviors?' is it Fear of conflict? Lack of abundance?

Then, once you found out why you're tolerating disrespectful beheviors, stand up for yourself.

The word butthurt is sometimes a bit too vague in my tastes. If you feel disprespected, your instinct is usually right: you're being disrespected.

Here's a test to know if you re fucked up in your mind or are actually being disrespected as you think: Do you feel disrespected each time you talk to a human being? Or do you feel disprespected just when dealing with some people, some of the time? If the answer is the latter, follow your instinct more. STOP accepting disprespectful behavior.
Yeah, TRY open communication, whenever possible.

But if it doesn't work after a couple times, cut contacts.

Now, How do you cut contacts with friends and girls if you feel some neediness about them?

By REPLACING them.

Hitting the streets, and the club ( for girlfriends ) and hitting meetups and every single social gathering you can get your hands on, (for friends).

Bottom Line:

if you feel disrespected and want to get better at setting boundaries:

1 ) Learn how to handle challenges and condescending behavior. ( master socratic questioning if you don't know where to begin with)
2) Use open communication if the undesirable behavior persists ( point out to the person you're talking to what behavior bothers you and why it bothers you, in a cool way )
3) Move on: Hit the streets and gathering to replace girlfriends and friends.


Hope this helps

NoLimits