Improvement: went from 18/1 to 3/1 (approach/numbers), new problem arises

nad_bigger

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Feb 15, 2019
Messages
135
tl;dr I approach and take number too quickly, shy girls don't answer the phone

Russian, 26, daygame.

Hi! Thanks for all the amazing comments from viewtopic.php?f=3&t=20059 (2300+ approaches = 5 new girls. please help)

Because of you and some hard thought, I went from
2258 approaches / 125 numbers (18/1) in 3 years to
54 approaches / 16 numbers (3.3/1) in one month

Now to the dates. I work at the university as an assisstant and have no shortage of "ooomph fuuuu.." level of girls.

I approach them slower and more carefull than before, when I was spamming. They are very surprised, shy, but attracted and happy to see me (6'3, normal face). Most of the time they are in a bit of a hurry to get to the next lecture, so my approaches look like this:

/I approach only really cute girls (it's Russia, remember?), keeping quality bar was a problem after years of spam-apps but I mostly got over it

-Hi!
*surprised face, sometimes they answer hi, sometimes don't*
-I know this is unusual, but
*smiling, putting her at ease*
-I just saw you from over there and
*paaause*
-your red hair red lipstic and glasses are just an amasing.. sort a.. mixture. Very cute. (something unique)
*thanks:) smiles*
-What is your name?
-Vika.
-Alex. Very nice to meet you.
*Shaking hands jently, more like holding hands*
-you are a student here? I work here...(short explanation) listen. lets do this: I have to go, but I will write down your number and call you in the evening, is that cool?
-Okay, 8 913...
-So when are you free these days?
-Well call and see (this part varies, some say today or give a scedule)
*calling her, seeing my number*
-Yeah, I just thought, I stop being a pussy and approach for once (icebreaker kinda), because if I didn't, I would be blaming myself for a week. Ok, I'll call you, hug it out!
*90% hug it out*

So I guess this part is fine (2500+ approaches FFS), but maybe not long enough, because sometimes they pickup the phone if I call right this day like 'Hi, bit busy, on a bus, call me later'
And about half of them answer normally and scedule a date and show up, but other half stops answering, and my frustrations are big, they are huuge, they are one of largest, believe me!

And for a good approach like that I think I must have a 95% number/date raios.

By 'good' I mean she quickly gives number, she holds my hand a bit longer, she hugs and smiles.

In the last 30 days I had 54 approaches / 16 numbers / 3 new dates / no new sex (just a FWB on weekends regularly).

So please, save me again, push me futher, good people, I wanted to have 54 apps/16 numbers/15 dates :(
 

ZacAdam

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Nov 20, 2012
Messages
4,379
nad_b,

nad_bigger said:
I work at the university as an assisstant and have no shortage of "ooomph fuuuu.." level of girls.

I
You think you can work around the 'working at the university', unless they ask? or you can lie. :)

Zac
 

Hue

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Sep 21, 2016
Messages
1,192
nad_bigger,

Glad you're trying and reaching out man!

Day game is definitely not my strong suit, but I did pick up on some possible areas I could provide feedback.
-Hi!
*surprised face, sometimes they answer hi, sometimes don't*
-I know this is unusual, but
*smiling, putting her at ease*
-I just saw you from over there and
*paaause*
-your red hair red lipstic and glasses are just an amasing.. sort a.. mixture. Very cute. (something unique)
*thanks:) smiles*
-What is your name?
-Vika.
-Alex. Very nice to meet you.
This is solid, paces well, and puts her at ease - one of the hardest aspects of day game since it's radically different than what most guys in her life have the ability to do.

-you are a student here? I work here...(short explanation) listen. lets do this: I have to go, but I will write down your number and call you in the evening, is that cool?
From what I've read and seen I think the short explanation is good because it adds enough context to who you are and what you do on campus, but I don't see you letting her answer your question and finding out more about her.

Was this just a short-handed description of actually how it went down? I'd suggest you find out more about her so she can invest in the conversation as well - and possibly allow you to qualify her if so fit to the situation.

Lastly, just how I read this comes off as you asking for the number too quickly. Going quickly for the number, especially without qualifying her / leaving an emotional impact, can leave her with attainability problems.

-So when are you free these days?
-Well call and see (this part varies, some say today or give a scedule)
*calling her, seeing my number*
I'd make sure to engage in a dialogue after she's hooked to make it seem like she would enjoy talking to you again, THEN nearing the peak of that conversation ask for her number. Then, keep the conversation going so it winds down before cutting it off.

This reads as if once you have her number, you've gotten "what you wanted" from the interaction. The point of the interaction should include getting her number if you can't take her on an insta-date (which is why you might want to consider screening for logistics as well), sure, but you need to leave her feeling that you wanted to talk to her and meet her.

-Yeah, I just thought, I stop being a pussy and approach for once (icebreaker kinda), because if I didn't, I would be blaming myself for a week. Ok, I'll call you, hug it out!
*90% hug it out*
Ah, you might be mixing up pieces of advice and methods in the order they were intended to be used in. Icebreakers (and the information usually conveyed in them) are meant for the beginning of the interaction, not the end. It's like opening twice - which doesn't make a whole lot of sense right? I've done this during day game too.

I think you set a "I don't do this to everyone" frame here, and in some instances it could help with attainability... but idk. It sorta comes off as soft to be honest. Especially hugging her after. Big no-no. Makes you come off as warm and fuzzy, rather than smooth and sexy.


So, I would recommend three things:

  • Pace the Number-Grab
    Make sure you get her warmed up and allow her to invest in the conversation before asking for a number. The diagram in this article is what I'm referring to.
  • Consider a Different Exit
    You want to leave her feeling you're pleased you talked to her, but leave in a way that still has you as the dominate, sexy male. Something like, *sexy smile and look*, "Well, Vika, it was a pleasure running into you" *grabs wrist / hand, slowly slides off as you begin to walk away*

    That^ leaves her with something to think about lol
  • Ditch the Hugging Shit
    Here's a forum post by Chase on exiting conversations. Personally, I think kissing the hand is a bit incongruent with my style, but the ideas conveyed in the post are important. Hindsight, I think my answer in the second bullet is based off of information I read in this post^ about a year ago. Think about how you can develop your methods by incorporating what is shared here.

    But yea, hugging at this stage just makes you look all warm and fuzzy. Hugs are for friends. Intimacy is for lovers.

Hope all this helps man!

Hue
 

nad_bigger

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Feb 15, 2019
Messages
135
Diched the hugging shit forever
Touching the hand and looking in the eyes as a goodbuy from now on
Only counting approaches over 2 minutes now (roughly)
Instead of asking for a number, just ask when she is free, and number as an exit.

18-20 march: 35 approaches/8 numbers, about 5-ish new dates on the horizon (many student girls have pre-finals now)

Absolutely amazed by the generocity of this community!
Hue, ThePhoenix, Grand Pooba, jakesykes949, rockstar
 

ZacAdam

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Nov 20, 2012
Messages
4,379
ar....

I knew i am going somewhere for quite awhile now..

- people ask stupid questions
- people ask questions and then disappear
- people send me a personal message to ask for notes, and not even an acknowledgement or note of
- guys getting insecure

I thought i am wrong this few years, I am going somewhere and grown out of this place..
 

ThePhoenix

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Nov 14, 2017
Messages
248
nad_bigger,

Good to hear we were able to help!

nad_bigger said:
-Yeah, I just thought, I stop being a pussy and approach for once...
I donʼt like this. (I assume these are words youʼre actually saying to the girl.)

My reason goes back to what I was telling you about women being attracted to men who make lots & lots of babies. Do you think such a man would be “approaching for once”?

Let me tell you a story. I approached a girl in a bargain store I guess around the middle of last year. She was a bit reserved and ultimately declined to meet up or even give her number. Ok, no biggie, it happens.

Well, about three months later, I spotted a cutie in the same mall, in a big box store, and opened her. Without getting into old notes, very roughly it went like:

[addressing her from the side while looking at candles]

me: Wow, theyʼve got a pretty big selection.

her: Yeah, they do.

[I face her and notice sheʼs wearing natural hair]

me: I love your hair!

her: Thank you.

me: [going for her hand] Tell me your name.

her: Shanice.
her: We met before. In the bargain store.

[I do a slight double take and then point to her knowingly]

me: Oooohhhhh yeah!! You had the headphones on then, too...
It was the same girl. I honestly hadnʼt even initially remembered. Thankfully I did once she brought it up.

I was actually kind of scared she was going to get pissed that I didnʼt remember her. Cuz supposedly all black people look the same to white people. Well, certainly not in my case! I can often tell a black girl if sheʼs from America or the Caribbean or Africa, and if sheʼs African, not always but I can often tell her roughly the region, to about 700km or so. (Once in a while I even correctly guess her tribe, though thatʼs honestly more an educated guess based on the regional demographics.)

But talking to a girl for all of two minutes doesnʼt make me remember her from Jill. I look at and talk to enough girls that I need more than that to remember her.

Well, what ended up happening is she suddenly became a lot friendlier. In fact, when I saw her a day or so later in the same store, she put a big smile on her face. Iʼd say thereʼs a 70% chance I couldʼve had sex with her. Unfortunately, I didnʼt try to close, because I was insecure over her having already rejected me 3 months ago. But still, her 180° turn was very instructive!

Why did her behaviour change so much? Probably because the fact that I initially didnʼt even remember her signalled to her that I must do this quite a bit. It told her that our interaction from 3 months prior had NOT been a case of a lonely guy “approaching for once”. She was able to infer from this that I probably get girls. That is a powerful inference. That sort of subtle evidence of sexual conquests goes straight into a womanʼs unconscious mind and flips on the attraction switch!

nad_bigger said:
...because if I didnʼt, I would be blaming myself for a week.
This, too, goes against the “lots & lots of babies” paradigm. It makes it sound like youʼre living in scarcity when it comes to women. (Even if you are, she doesnʼt need to know that!) It puts her on a pedestal, which can only do really bad things to your value.


A couple other quick points:

  • Iʼm not sure but it sounds like youʼre calling girls as the first contact after the approach. Calling can be good under some conditions (with one girl I did get warm response from her on the phone even after she had ignored my texts), but Iʼm under the impression that itʼs typically better to text. So far, pretty much all the dates Iʼve had this century I got without ever calling the girl. Of course, this could vary depending on the local culture, so you may want to play with both methods and see what works out better. I prefer texting also because it gives me time to frame my responses strategically, whereas I find this is harder for me when Iʼm put on the spot, and Iʼm more likely to come up with weak and pedestrian responses in a phone call; thatʼs partly because I still need much more experience, but it does say something for sticking to text until your game is more spontaneous.

  • I second Hueʼs caution against hugging.

HTH!
Phoenix
 

nad_bigger

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Feb 15, 2019
Messages
135
Thanks a lot, diched the hugging shit, "oh I only approach when I am not a pussy" shit and won't say that I work here unless they ask (thanks to ZacAdam for that one).
Note about calling - Russia, man, I guess I like calling, I have a good voice and conan level sense of humor:) I compliment her sexy voice, her sexually suggestive eyes, say how incredible it was to meen her just like that on the street and set up a date. Not more that 5 min tops. Is that bad?

little report:
last 30 days 23.02.2019-23.03.2019 (or the strange american 02.23-03.23)

84 approaches
24 phone numbers
4 dates (at least 2 more pending)
2 dates sat on my couch and I kissed their necks, now to extensive reading about sexual escallation!

before you helped me average month looked like this (1 year average):
151 approach
9.6 numbers
2.4 dates

Much Improvement, very wow.
I would have loved to have a phone coaching session, but 200 USD is literally my montly salary:)
 

ray_zorse

Cro-Magnon Man
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Location
Australia
I think Hue and ThePhoenix gave very good advice and covered the main points that occurred to me: Going for the number too quickly, I will say more about that in a moment. Awkwardness at the end: I particularly thought the part about the being a pussy was problematic and I think Chase has an article about being congruent / the problem of incongruity, it was in a recent newsletter but is probably also an article.

I also think that approaching on campus is a bit problematic, especially if you work there. It is less problematic if you are a student, but if you work there you are meant to keep up a professional standard of behaviour at all times. As a former University teacher I was concerned to do any approaching while employed as a teacher, since consequences would have been severe if a complaint made to security, and in the course of approaching thousands of girls I have certainly made these kind of slip ups.

The rules change a bit as you become ultra smooth and confident and can approach "under the radar" e.g. by cracking a joke to the girl next to you, so it does not feel like an approach. But to get there you need to get good at street stops and going direct, firstly because they are such a confidence builder and attitude rebuilder, and secondly because there are times (i.e. not in your place of work) where they are necessary.

So I think you should expand your repertoire to malls, the downtown, supermarkets, etc. Another thing to consider is time of day: 5.30pm approaches in the downtown are not super effective as everyone has someplace they need to be, a train to catch etc. 2.30pm in good weather is way more effective. I have the feeling that by approaching in between classes you are significantly affecting your success rate. You might do better by, say, approaching in the library, chatting 5-10min and suggesting insta date. If done right you could actually go from meet to lay in just a few hours. I would not have thought this possible when I was still slogging it out early on -- now I know better.

Finally I will give you a scenario that demonstrates how your mind works as you get more experienced: you approach her on the train platform and get some initial pleasantries out of the way -- her name, what she does, does she work nearby, is she finished for the day, heading for an appt etc. You direct her onto the train and tell her where to sit. You introduce some common interests and chat about them -- what drove her to study XXX thing or whatever. You casually ask what stop she is getting off at. You mentally tick off the stations as they go by and when she has about 2-3 stops or 5-10min to go, you judge that enough rapport has been built and go for the coffee date. This gives you plenty of time to swap numbers and then cool out the conversation, you don't want to leave too abruptly or be super duper sexy here. I used to go for a kiss on the cheek but this once led to a report to transit cops and fairly dire consequences so I think a shoulder touch and look into eyes works well for goodbye.

Essentially your brain has to be working on several different levels in judging the success of the encounter and where you're at with her as well as the logistics.

Hope it helps!

Ray
 

nad_bigger

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Feb 15, 2019
Messages
135
I don't think anybody will report me, first, it is Russia, no harrasment #metoo hysteria here, second, I am more of a marlon brando than harvey weinstein, so, no creepy vibes there.
 
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