International perspectives and developing as a man in an integrative fashion

Space

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Continuing from here.

Tony D said:
But yeah forums are not really a big thing for seduction anymore. Most guys I know went to facebook and Whattsapp groups. Or they hang out on different forums that talk more about culture war, travel, or working out. For pure game they tend to hang out in RSD circles.
I'm also into travel, what's wrong with that? I mean it's one of biggest cliches that if you could quit your job all you would do is travel, right? At least for most people.

I've said earlier I liked all of Chase's articles I've read here, expect maybe one. The one about long term international travel, which I reasonably assume is not based on the author's real life experiences, but mostly hearsay. Please correct me if I'm wrong on that!

It's a cliche again, but travel broadens the mind. If you have the experience of, let's say Meetup groups work one way in your home city, you may be surprised they work completely differently overseas.

As for workout. I'm not that big on hitting the gym specifically (feel free to change my mind!), but I've just posted one on different approaches to staying healthy in our Lifestyle section. Heck, I thought we have a reason for a lifestlye section here with topics like travel, health, career, etc. I find it odd though that this section is the dead one on the whole forum. I've always thought that as a man you develop in various areas if your life in a parallel fashion, right? I couldn't fail to notice that men interested in developing that other areas of their lives flock elsewhere.
 

Space

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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The TL;DR version of Roosh's article titled The 3 Immutable Laws Of Getting The Highest Quality Women:

1. Learn game.
2. Increase your value as much as possible through work, effort, and persistence.
3. Be as location independent as possible (have penis, will uproot).


If I understand correctly, Girls Chase is about all in on 1., but has not much if any consideration for 2, and certainly nothing for 3. Let's consider 2.! I've read somewhere Chase wrote that after you mastered game, now maybe is the time to work on your career and maybe it's time to find something more interesting than your cubicle job? That's certainly not the case how every man sees personal development, at least speaking for myself, I'm certainly more into the integrative approach propagated by Mark Manson, Dr. Robert Glover, and David Deida among others where you develop every aspects of your life in tandem, including getting better with women and your career.

As for 3. You can't really be an international community without any consideration for your international users, can you?

There is certainly a market for a resource which focuses solely on game only and not on any other aspects of your life. Chase also noticed that there are tons of exec-types with loads of money who are still clueless when it comes to women.

A second type of people, however, would rather develop every aspects of their life in parallel and you see a dating advice site only for what it is: a dating advice site. Nothing more, nothing less. And you have a good list of resources where to go to to develop other aspects of your life. This category certainly covers me.

A third category of people might be only interested in learning game without wanting to improve in any other aspect, but I would find it kind of dumb.

I'm not saying one approach is better than the other. I'm saying one is at least not complete and you need to consider a few solid additional resources as well.
 

Marty

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Space. You keep mentioning Manson, which I found a little surprising at first as I have read his book The Subtle Art of Not Giving A Fuck and although it contained some interesting lessons for me, I felt that he didn't come across as an Alpha man, in fact quite the opposite. I remember he admitted to pedestalizing some actress that I didn't think was particularly attractive, and seemed to admit to oneitis at some point as well. And for someone claiming Zero Fucks Given, he hardly acts out the advice he gives, right down to censoring the word as F*ck in the title of his book!

Have you read his other book, Models? Do you recommend it? It piques my interest from the description, but I am deterred by the tone of his book that I have read and what it seems to say about him. I could well be mistaken, which is why I am asking.
 

Rain

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Marty said:
Space. You keep mentioning Manson, which I found a little surprising at first as I have read his book The Subtle Art of Not Giving A Fuck and although it contained some interesting lessons for me, I felt that he didn't come across as an Alpha man, in fact quite the opposite. I remember he admitted to pedestalizing some actress that I didn't think was particularly attractive, and seemed to admit to oneitis at some point as well. And for someone claiming Zero Fucks Given, he hardly acts out the advice he gives, right down to censoring the word as F*ck in the title of his book!

Have you read his other book, Models? Do you recommend it? It piques my interest from the description, but I am deterred by the tone of his book that I have read and what it seems to say about him. I could well be mistaken, which is why I am asking.
I haven't read Mark Mansons books, although I have read some of his articles one that was recommended to me about approach anxiety and that it may take time, which was true for me it did take alot of time to get some progress. But at least today there's a chance I'll approach, way way more than a few years ago.

Grand Pooba mentions that book a few years ago
"Models by Mark Manson
This is a great counterpart to GC material - it is about developing and expressing vulnerability and congruency with women, but in a means that is bringing out your own qualities and true confidence through deep internal change. Highly recommended."
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5970&p=28654&hilit=manson#p28654

Hector mentions just recently about Mark Manson
"If you like Girls Chase material, then use it. If you don't, then go enjoy Mark Manson. His work is very good."
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19042&p=94208#p94208

radeng mentions recently about Mark Manson as well
"Mark Manson is also a main stream writer. Not a dating advice guy. He was previously a dating coach. But now he markets shit to everyone and writes books for everyone that have little to do with dating. I love Mark but him and chase are not comparable in the markets they serve even tho there will be some overlap. "
viewtopic.php?p=94185#p94185

I don't know if what radeng says here disagrees with hector and grand pooba or if it just means what mark wrote before was fine but what he writes today isn't dating advice or something like that.
 

Chase

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Space said:
The one about long term international travel, which I reasonably assume is not based on the author's real life experiences, but mostly hearsay. Please correct me if I'm wrong on that!
Hmm.

Hearsay... as in "unverified rumors"? Not most of that article... some of it is (and where it is, is labeled as such). Most of the information not from my direct experience is secondhand from friends... I have admittedly not been everywhere yet.

However, I have been to... I don't know. 40 countries? 45? Somewhere about there. Have picked up in many of them. And have picked up plenty of women from countries I have not yet visited, traveling outside their countries (obviously, these girls are less representative of what you'll find in their respective countries than the ones you'll meet there, but better than nothing).

Most of the rest of my comments in that article are secondhand, from friends who are also both prolific travelers and seducers, who generally in my experience know what they are talking about. The stuff that may be hearsay I tried to couch with "I hear that..." or "I'm told but haven't verified yet..." or language of that sort.

I don't talk about travel here much because it's not relevant to the majority of readers. I haven't been back to my home country (USA) in, what... 3 years, almost, now? It's been a while. There was a period where I practically lived on trains and airplanes. Most of the readership is not as interested in travel and/or lacks the means for it. Plus there's only so much you can write about "The 5 big differences between Italian girls and Vietnamese girls" before you're splitting hairs for entertainment value rather than providing much useful information. Thus I don't talk about it a whole lot.

Space said:
If I understand correctly, Girls Chase is about all in on 1., but has not much if any consideration for 2, and certainly nothing for 3. Let's consider 2.! I've read somewhere Chase wrote that after you mastered game, now maybe is the time to work on your career and maybe it's time to find something more interesting than your cubicle job? That's certainly not the case how every man sees personal development, at least speaking for myself, I'm certainly more into the integrative approach propagated by Mark Manson, Dr. Robert Glover, and David Deida among others where you develop every aspects of your life in tandem, including getting better with women and your career.
Maybe a comment to a specific reader?

My general sentiment is "do what you need to do first." For some men, women is the more pressing need. For others, career is the more pressing need.

I put them in no particular order of important in this article, for instance.

In general, my advice has always been heavily fundamentals-focused.

Before you worry about game, get your fundamentals handled. Game is useful; but if your fundamentals suck, the best game in the world won't save you (well, the best might save you... but you're not going to reach the best game with crappy fundamentals. Or if you are, you're probably a self-taught natural and more than likely aren't reading this site).

Space said:
I heavily recommend men be willing to uproot as much as possible, yes. But again, this must be within reason. Most men anywhere and everywhere can't and/or don't want to change countries or even cities. Generally the focus of my advice is "If you can do it, change countries or cities... even if you move back, the experience/perspective change is well worth it. But if you can't, at least change neighborhoods - each one is different."

Some articles on the subject:

Meet Women More Easily: Location

Game Imbalance Hypothesis

Navigating Highly Competitive Sexual Markets

Locating Good Low Competition Sexual Markets

Top 7 Easiest Ways to Get Laid & Raise Your Notch Count

I realize articles of these sorts are not listed as prominently. Some of them probably should have more prominence.

Others are more "niche" - yes, location independence is important and good, but it's not something a lot of guys are clicking around looking to learn about when they first find the site. Usually they want to know "what do I text her", "how do I ask her out", "how do I get back the girl who got away", things like that.

We're close to rolling out a system to make site navigation a lot easier. That should make it simpler to find the specific topics you're in search of (like travel, or personal development outside purely just dating, etc.).

Chase
 

Space

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Marty,

Marty said:
Space. You keep mentioning Manson, which I found a little surprising at first as I have read his book The Subtle Art of Not Giving A Fuck and although it contained some interesting lessons for me, I felt that he didn't come across as an Alpha man, in fact quite the opposite.
Okay. If we engage in this conversation, then by all means, be systematic and don't escape my statement on typology of men from Alpha to Sigma!

I think the term you are looking for is Natural. He has never had problems with girls, he doesn't have to hang around sites like this one, but can he teach this stuff as effectively as someone who had to learn things the hard way? If you want to learn from a natural, you may want to check out 60 Years of Challenge. If you search for discussions about him across the net you find that many find his advice hard to apply to their situations. He talks about night game. You have to use your creativity to adopt his methods to a day game situation for example. The linked top comment on /r/seduction confuses his site to a scam site. So Chis "60" sure might be a great guy in person, has born talented with girls, but as a natural he seems like a less talented teacher, let alone marketer of his product.

On the other hand, both Chase and Mark, and I most guys on this site had to do things the hard way, so we share similar experiences along the road which is easier to relate to. What's wrong with that?

Marty said:
I remember he admitted to pedestalizing some actress that I didn't think was particularly attractive, and seemed to admit to oneitis at some point as well.
We all have been there at some point, haven't we? If not, we probably wouldn't be here now. Mark's trademark is this thing called honesty, sharing his story and what he has learned along the way. I haven't read the book (it's mostly about his blog posts), but I don't see anything wrong with this so far.

Marty said:
And for someone claiming Zero Fucks Given, he hardly acts out the advice he gives, right down to censoring the word as F*ck in the title of his book!
Did it occur to you that this book was not self published, but put out by a major publisher? As far as I imagine, major publishers don't publish titles with curse words in them. If you read Mark's blog, you find he does not self censor himself there. For whatever reason, he is indeed fond of profanity.

Next time if you come up with some better excuses what's not to fancy about Mark, I'm happy to hear them! But how about this: there's this thread about him over at the Roosh V Forum. About half of the people seem to love him, the other half hate him. I can't think of a better recommendation that that.

Marty said:
Have you read his other book, Models? Do you recommend it? It piques my interest from the description, but I am deterred by the tone of his book that I have read and what it seems to say about him. I could well be mistaken, which is why I am asking.
Thanks for asking! Let's start with this example. I've read David Deida's book. It's not an easy read. Then I've found someone in an online discussion saying he understood it much better when he later listen to the audio version, with the author emphasizing certain points. Whatever you want to learn, I've found the audiovisual version works better for me.

But for the moment my main life priorities don't allow me to read that much on getting good with girls, indeed, I prefer the CliffsNotes versions and connecting the dots myself. In fact, I've started watching one of Mark's two-hour presentation like 2 months ago but still didn't got to its end. Can you imagine it? It's not like I got bored with Mark as a person, I'm quite systematic, I finish what I started before moving on to the next one. I watched the first half of it, but I have to start it again, since I've already forgot most of it, besides a few key concepts.

Instead of Models I short listed a slightly more adventurous, full-length video program by Mark. Let's say his Models book is his neat work which makes him acceptable in polite society. Then Masculine Power Now, as it seems by skimming, is one where he embraces his dark side, too. Is more daring with the kinky stuff included. Oh, you can't legally buy it anymore, since it has been withdrawn from the market, but the search engines still give you clues. If you got interested in Mark, then you could highly likely finish the program before I ever get to it, so I would be interested in your review!

The most important point in my whole post, however is to embrace your dark side!

The bottom line is, I did not cite Mark because I think he is the be all, best all dating advice guy. I simply cited him because he nailed his marketing with the elegance as anyone should in 2018.

Speaking of Mark Manson, let's not forget his mentor, Dr. Robert Glover. Most in the dating advice community think of him as a one trick pony with his best selling book, No More Mr Nice Guy and that's it. But he has more to offer than this book alone, you may want to check out his website. A notable fact is that Glover's book has twice the review on Amazon than Mark's book. I haven't been engaged that much with his work yet, just took a strong mental note next to it. So again it would be your turn to review it for us before me if you got intrigued.
 

Space

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Chase,

Thanks for your explanation and links! I could reflect on your reply in much greater detail as I planned to address these issues in much greater detail in this other topic I'v opened, Mark Manson's Paid Membership Subscription Review & Demo: Compared to Chase's..., but now the very-very short version.

You keep mentioning a major site redesign, so I thought that it's probably not worth that much reviewing, dissecting, and hopefully in a constructive manner, criticizing what looks like an 8-year old construct. I dated the start of Girls Chase to around 2010. The design certainly resembles me to older eras of the Internet, so I'm eager to see the redesign!

My main question is, when can we expect the launch of the new design, is there an estimated time of arrival? I'm thinking of the clock ticking on Roosh's site letting users know of the launch of his new book. (On Amazon of all places, not a PDF.)

Thank you so much!
 

Space

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Simple question to all of you:

How American centered do you think this community is, should be, or shouldn't be?

I mean I became familiar with Chase, the founder, and Hector, senior writer, both American. Most members here I sense are American. Marty... may not be American, and this new strange guy, leadersuleyman, from Istanbul, who couldn't really connect to the community yet is not American. I'm not American. The main site advertises it serves readers from 100 countries. Roosh's community is quite international. Where are the Indians? They are on Roosh's forum in big numbers, so I'm a little perplexed about how they didn't find their way to here as well.
 

Chase

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Space-

Space said:
My main question is, when can we expect the launch of the new design, is there an estimated time of arrival? I'm thinking of the clock ticking on Roosh's site letting users know of the launch of his new book.
I have about 20 different projects on my plate ATM. We have the forum revamp, we're rolling out Varoon's index for the site soon, editing the new One Date commercial, getting the YouTube strategy organized, organizing a new phone and in-field coaching branch with 4 of our guys, editing the new upsell products and finalizing their logos and design, writing more of our Amazon books and recording the audio version, switching our click tracking from Voluum to Propser202, making an appointment with a notary so I can set up a proper mailing address for us and not have stuff going to our registered agent, coordinating a new sales page and launch for Hector's book, building new landing pages and campaigns for our core offers, hiring a few new people for more roles... list goes on. Lots more stuff than that too.

So yeah. It will get there. I'm shifting back up into high production mode after not being as productive for a few months, so might happen soon... especially if it turns out it's really easy to switch the whole forum from phpBB to xenForo and we don't hit any snags with that. But we'll see.

The American question... not sure I understand what you are asking to do differently.

Of our primary contributors articles-wise right now, the most active guys are me, Alek, Tony, Hector, Daniel, Varoon, and Denton. Hector, Varoon, Denton, and me are American. Alek is European. Tony is Canadian. Daniel is African. I'd like to get more European guys (and we've had - Ricardus [German], Halvor [Norwegian], Pablo [Spanish], Francesco [Italian], Darius [Eastern European], George [English], Davi [Armenian]). Right now we just have more Americans than Europeans; just how it is. I'm certainly open to suggestions.

On the boards, we have plenty of European guys. But definitely more Americans than anything else. Why is that? No idea. Again, open to suggestions - we have plenty of European readers but they are less involved in the community on average than our American readers.

Thoughts on how to get Europeans more involved? Anything I'm missing?

Chase
 

Marty

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Space said:
Marty... may not be American
I'll throw you a bone, since you asked.

I wasn't American when I started out at GirlsChase, but I sure am American now.
 

Space

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Chase said:
Hearsay... as in "unverified rumors"? Not most of that article... some of it is (and where it is, is labeled as such). Most of the information not from my direct experience is secondhand from friends... I have admittedly not been everywhere yet.
Chase, now just a quick reply on this one. I'm not a native speaker, but I meant rumor by hearsay. Maybe it's not the right word to use. Indeed, it's unverified to the reader, but it's not the main point. Let's move on! Sorry for the misunderstanding!

Chase said:
However, I have been to... I don't know. 40 countries? 45? Somewhere about there. Have picked up in many of them. And have picked up plenty of women from countries I have not yet visited, traveling outside their countries (obviously, these girls are less representative of what you'll find in their respective countries than the ones you'll meet there, but better than nothing).
Chase said:
I don't talk about travel here much because it's not relevant to the majority of readers. I haven't been back to my home country (USA) in, what... 3 years, almost, now? It's been a while.
Now I understand that for some reason (maybe because it's still a viable business model and it pays the bills) you concentrate on serving more of your search engine traffic, than your tighter knit community. Sure, your search engine traffic probably couldn't care less about your travels, but we (your more immediate community) would probably be interested in more of your personal experiences from a first person perspective (we are here not for some generic information, but information that comes through your filters) than casually mentioning it in two sentences in an odd forum post.

Chase said:
Most of the rest of my comments in that article are secondhand, from friends who are also both prolific travelers and seducers, who generally in my experience know what they are talking about. The stuff that may be hearsay I tried to couch with "I hear that..." or "I'm told but haven't verified yet..." or language of that sort.
If I were to blog about pickup or anything for that matter and had these, certainly interesting cross cultural experiences (on the road for 3 years or more), I'd certainly blog about them, as I were aware that my readers are here to hear my information, not just some random information from a random dude they've just found on the search engine. On the other hand, I'd certainly saved my readers to what my friends said about their experiences from places I haven't been to. But it's just me and this is your business and your blog.
 
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