Is Meat Bad for You?

[metomeya]

Hey guys,

Just wrote an interesting article here:
100 Scientific Reasons to NOT Eat Meat

Wanted to get some input on the article and your thoughts on eating meat. Good, bad, or who cares?

 

[luego]

Can I vote for who cares?

To analogize to a relevant topic, I'm sure we can come up with stats about how number of sexual partners correlate with bad things. But that's not going to dissuade a lot of people here.

I love meat. I lived with a vegetarian for many years, and most of her food sucked. And the stuff that didn't was usually made with meat-analogs. I'd rather die happy at 70 than have a sucky life until 90. Everything in moderation though - I'm not a 300lb guy self-justifying here.

 

[Mr. oblivious]

if you look at any healthy diet guideline it will say everything in moderation if you only eat meat then it will be bad for you but having meat as part of a well balanced diet is good because meat contains complete proteins therefore and be broken down into the essential amino acids your body needs most vegetables have low quality protein but have a wide arrange of vitamins and minerals so eating them both is vital

 

[Nova]

meat per se isn't bad for us, we are omnivores for a reason, meat is packed full of essential nutrients.

what is bad is how some meat is processed, packaged and the chemicals that are added. if you want to be careful then look for all that organic stuff.

 

[[GC]Jay]

I know most of the meat products were no longer safe to eat, why? from what I read in some blog a few years back - chicken meat, pig meat, cow meat even fish meat contains a bit of estrogen especially the ones being feed with boosters and some boosters contains estrogen. I can't scientifically explain this but just beware of what you eat and keep a variety of meal everyday.

 

[daviddreamer]

I don't know I feel pretty happy just finishing my T-bone steak that was marinating in some Honey Teriyaki for 2 days.

 

[[GC]Jay]

I don't know I feel pretty happy just finishing my T-bone steak that was marinating in some Honey Teriyaki for 2 days.

another effect just like drugs but could really bad for your health.

 

[metomeya]

The way I see it meat is just like cigarettes.

For some people, it doesn't matter how bad it is for you, they'll always smoke. It is the same with meat.

Personally, besides the unhealthiness of meat, I just feel bad after eating it (yes, I still like the taste of meat). Like, physically sick.

To me, it isn't worth feeling that way. Now it is just a matter of finding good tasting vegan recipes.

 

[Chase]

Here's a counterpoint:

University of Graz Study Finds Vegetarians Are Unhealthier, More Mentally Disturbed Than Meat-Lovers

Research is just all over the place on this subject and it seems to mostly come down to people with different emotional preferences finding different studies to cite to back up their positions.

Chase

 

[metomeya]

Actually, my link would support the study provided by you, Chase.

If you look at the 100 points in total, fish, chicken, diary, pork, and eggs are the worst animal products you can consume.

What do vegetarians eat? Fish, cheese, and eggs (at least the ones in that study ate fish).

But vegans don't have to worry about that.

As far as this quote goes "Moreover the scientists found that vegans had a 150% higher rate of heart attacks (1.5% to 0.6%)." B12 has been shown to be critical to artery health. A lot of vegans aren't supplementing like they should.

Also the author, Nathalie Burkert, said they found no link between vegetarian diet and unhealthiness. In her own words:

Potential limitations of our results are due to the fact that the survey was based on cross-sectional data. Therefore, no statements can be made whether the poorer health in vegetarians in our study is caused by their dietary habit or if they consume this form of diet due to their poorer health status.

And the study supports this.

First, it was from a developed country (Australia) which would most likely have people who would convert from meat eating to vegetarian vs. a non-developed country which has little choice in their diet. Second, the small sample size would cause problems:

1,320 subjects were matched according to their age, sex, and socioeconomic status and included 330 vegetarians, 330 that ate meat but still a lot of fruits and vegetables, 300 normal eaters but that ate less meat, and 330 on a more meat-heavy diet.

This would be a HUGE sample size if it wasn't for the fact it was a survey study.

Now if you want a survey study with some good numbers look at the one that followed 500,000 people over 10 years showing a link between meat consumption and overall death, death by cancer, and death by cardiovascular disease.

Two Harvard studies (with 121,342 people combined) found red meat to increase total mortality rates and cancer mortality rates. These people were tracked for 2 to 3 decades. This was after controlling for things like workout habits, hereditary problems, and lifestyle.

An EPIC study looking at 373,803 people over 10 countries showed meat consumption to be linked to weight gain, especially around the midsection. This was after controlling for total calories consumption.

Finally, another EPIC study (following 411,097) showed Lymphoma (blood cancer) to be caused by meat (chicken being the worst).


The studies are not all over the place when it comes to diet.

I think people and the media just find a headline they like and run with it, without actually reading it.

 

[Ross]

The studies are not all over the place when it comes to diet.

shoots off research gun

Pro-Meat:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8842068
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12816782
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10966896
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21139125
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7956998
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/82/2/327.abstract

I could link a lot more, but I can't be bothered with it.

Like Chase said, it mainly comes down to your emotional involvement with food when you choose whether or not to eat meat.

 

[Mr. oblivious]

Just as a side note you farts are going to smell worse if your a vegetarian (cause of the natural chemicals in vegetables) (and since you will need to eat more to supplement not eating meat)

 

[metomeya]

HAHA. What?

Do you have personal experience in this dude?

 

[metomeya]

The studies are not all over the place when it comes to diet.

shoots off research gun

Pro-Meat:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8842068
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12816782
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10966896
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21139125
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7956998
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/82/2/327.abstract

I could link a lot more, but I can't be bothered with it.

Like Chase said, it mainly comes down to your emotional involvement with food when you choose whether or not to eat meat.

Dude, just posting random studies doesn't really do anything for the discussion. Especially, when I already cover almost all these issues in the article. But I'll go ahead break them down and discuss them.

The first one about vegetarians and health conscious people said:
"In this cohort of health conscious individuals, daily consumption of fresh fruit is associated with a reduced mortality from ischaemic heart disease, cerebrovascular disease, and all causes combined." And this is pro-meat how?

I don't see the study comparing the vegetarians to the meat eaters here. And aren't the vegetarian going to eat more fresh fruit?

Besides, my article is pro-vegan not vegetarian.

The second one said they have low B12 level...but I said in the article to supplement.

Third one:
"CONCLUSION:Our data suggest that cobalamin deficiency, in the absence of hematologic signs, may lead to impaired cognitive performance in adolescents."
Cobalamin is B12. B12 protects your nervous system. Again, every vegan should supplement. Even some meat eater need to supplement.

Fourth one:
I talk about what you need to supplement when being a vegan. Interesting thing with calcium, Americans get the most, but we have the most bone problems. But vegan cultures get less calcium and virtually no bone problems. You really have to wondering if the RDA is correct when you adjust for a vegan lifestyle.

Fifth one:
This one is talking about iron. But a cup of spinach pretty much gets you to your daily recommended amount. Furthermore, too much iron in your body damages it. The iron found in animal products won't get regulated by your digestive system. Meaning, if your body has too much iron and you eat some meat it'll still absorb the iron, but if it comes in plant form it'll protect your body and not let it in.

Last one:
It just talks about EPA and DHA (omega-3s) which I said you should supplement with (algae based not fish oil).

Yes, if you are just going to start eating only plant food and not educate yourself, your are absolutely right with the results being all over the board. I agree with you there.

But you can't just search for "scientific studies against being vegans" and post whatever you find. There is more to the article than just stop eating meat.

I can understand why people assume it is just "your emotional involvement" whether you eat meat or not, because there are so many crazy vegans (PETA) with a chip on their shoulder (they all give us a bad name), but to give that argument because you don't want to take the time to look and understand the science is a cop out. And I can't blame you guys for that. I never bother to really look at the science in the past. Why? Because all of those PETA psychos made me think being vegan is stupid. Even considering being vegan is stupid. But if you look at the science, it is clear what the healthiest diet is.

All I'm asking is to keep an open mind and look at the data. And if you don't want to do that, fine. But please don't argue anything against it, until you read it.

And if you guys want to eat meat after reading it. That's fine. No judgement. It is your body after all. You might even live to your 100s (there are smokers who do). But just because some smokers live to their 100s, doesn't mean it is healthy. The same goes for meat.

If you guys want to argue points, I'm down for that. But to say being vegan is just an emotional decision, or here are some random studies I found (especially, when it has points that I already discussed), you aren't moving the argument along. You aren't even arguing at that point.

On a lighter note, yes, my farts are deadly. The government made me register as a lethal weapon.

 

[Ross]

But you can't just search for "scientific studies against being vegans" and post whatever you find.

The point was to show that studies like these do exist, as you said,

The studies are not all over the place when it comes to diet.

I'm not silly enough to get into these types of arguments. Been there, done that. People are too emotionally invested in whichever diet/line of thinking that they are following to look at both sides of the research, and instead insist on choosing to support one side or the other to fulfill their own confirmation bias.

 

[Nuncle]

I was a total vegetarian for 18 years, had a kind of 5 year transition period where I gradually gave into temptation and then for several years now have been pretty much a full meat eater (I eat maybe 20% less meat than the average Western guy, I don't insist on it as an essential part of every meal).

The funny thing I have noticed since making the switch is that as well as physiological changes I have also undergone quite marked psychological changes as well. I have become more "manly" in my mindset - more aggressive, less sensitive, more decisive, less fearful and so on.

In my view if you can manage to go without meat, all power to ya. It's actually pretty fucked up if you take a step back - the whole process of keeping billions of animals alive purely to be killed and eaten or to breed young to be killed and eaten.

 

[metomeya]

I'm not silly enough to get into these types of arguments. Been there, done that. People are too emotionally invested in whichever diet/line of thinking that they are following to look at both sides of the research, and instead insist on choosing to support one side or the other to fulfill their own confirmation bias.

Ha, but you are getting into the argument by posting. If you have nothing to say then don't post.

And don't take my words out of context.

 

[metomeya]

I was a total vegetarian for 18 years, had a kind of 5 year transition period where I gradually gave into temptation and then for several years now have been pretty much a full meat eater (I eat maybe 20% less meat than the average Western guy, I don't insist on it as an essential part of every meal).

The funny thing I have noticed since making the switch is that as well as physiological changes I have also undergone quite marked psychological changes as well. I have become more "manly" in my mindset - more aggressive, less sensitive, more decisive, less fearful and so on.

In my view if you can manage to go without meat, all power to ya. It's actually pretty fucked up if you take a step back - the whole process of keeping billions of animals alive purely to be killed and eaten or to breed young to be killed and eaten.

Now this I like. He is being honest with his experience and not getting emotional about it.

Ever hear of the RawBrahs? They had the same experience as you. There was a female blogger (can't find her anymore) who said she felt stronger when she started to eat meat again.

Just for your information, I think the reason why you and others feel more manly when you go back to meat has to do with zinc. Zinc is pretty low on a vegan diet and the absorption rate is higher with animal products and is found in higher amounts (especially with beef products). The absorption rate has to do with when the protein breaks down into certain amino acids (forget which ones, but they are found in a high ratio in animal products), the zinc becomes suspended in a solution. And when it is suspended in a solution it has a high absorption rate (I think like 80%).

But you don't need the amino acids for this to work, studies with zinc suspended in a solution (not from amino acids) showed the same absorption rate. Why they haven't come out with liquid zinc supplement, I don't know.

Anyway, if you go back to being vegan you could just supplement with zinc and get the same results. You just need to take more (like 50 mg) to compensate for the lower absorption. And there is a study showing vegans have higher testosterone levels than meat eaters on average. I think I've seen studies showing the opposite, but I would assume this has to do with the low zinc levels. If the other study is accurate, I would think you would have even higher levels going back to a vegan diet and supplementing with zinc.

I try not to argue about the whole killing of billion of animals for food thing. Seems like you can never change people's mind about that. However, I do agree with you 100% on it being pretty messed up. But since I became vegan because of the health benefits, that is usually the point I try to argue.

 

[Big Daddy]

I guess you created this post to hear about people's experience with meat. This is mine:

If most of what Chase says about psychology makes sense to you, then the eating habits in the past should make, too. If you feel weak or bad after eating meat, which is the same thing I feel after eating McDonald's french fries, don't eat it.

You say that diets with no meat lack nutrient A or B and that could be supplemented. Eating meat shouldn't make you any bad after all, then, if it has so much essential nutrients. If you were lost in the woods, you'd feel a very natural surge of killing an animal to eat as opposed to desperately start looking for a non-toxic plant to eat, so I supposed there's nothing too wrong about eating meat.

I could argue that grains are bad. Soy is bad. Milk is bad. Sugar is bad. Well, test it yourself; I eat meat, it gives energy and helps packing muscle, and I like it. The very last thing you could expect to be the same for everyone is diet, so discussing it any further than this is futile. Eat meat for 6 weeks, then cut meat for 6 weeks. Which one did you feel better? Stick with it.

 

[Nighthawk]

This thing is too personal to argue about.

Like someone said above, it's like smokers: they don't care if it's bad for them. I actually am like this, I have lactose intolerance and still drink milk, I love bacon, and I know it's not good for me, but I just don't care.

My ex gf became vegan when we were together. And now she is also a smoker AND alcoholic. And she says she's healthier than me, because I eat meat! LOL

One should always do what one feels better with: being a smoker, or vegan, or eating meat, or work out. As long as you like it.