Is Pride a sign of character or just a form of masculine autorejection?

[Prehistoric]

It's happened to me already in the past (I'd say 3 times) that a girl who had rejected me before, contacted me much later (I am talking about many weeks or even some months later) after I had interrupted contact with her, telling me how I was doing and asking me to catch up with her.

Now, after I have determined that the girl isn't really interested in me from a sexual point of view, not only I stop contacting her but I put her in a sort of black list and tell to myself: this one didn't value me sexually, if she comes back and wants to be with me, I'll just give her the friend she wanted in the first place, subtly communicating: "I am not always here for you honey". I feel somehow I am lacking "honor" if I give her what she didn't value initially. It's like I feel she's the one who has to work hard this time if she really wants a second chance with me.

Now, I know many men in the dating community consider traits like honor and pride very outdated when it comes to dealing with women today and that some might even say that's just a way of protecting my ego from the pain of rejection. But aren't we men worthy anyway regardless of women's appreciation?

What's your take on the subject?

 

[Drck]

There are different kinds of rejections. What happens many times is, that many rejections are not true rejection. For example, at the time you interact with her her mind is somewhere else. Maybe she has a BF, maybe she is not thinking about serious dating at that particular time, maybe you don't look attractive enough at the moment. There are hundred of other reasons, but basically she doesn't really reject you. She just puts you "aside" as she is focusing on something/somebody else.

Now, after several days or months, she MAY change her mind. I can tell you, this happens even after YEARS. She remembers the guy who liked her a lot. She is thinking where is he, what is he doing, how would it be to date him and so on. You might actually get quite good changes, much better than with a new girl as she may be chasing you now. So just because she doesn't accept you today as a BF or lover it doesn't mean that she won't in 3 months or 3 years from now. When a girl rejects you I wouldn't really jump into any conclusions. I wouldn't determine anything, I wouldn't make any black lists, I wouldn't make any conclusions - I would just leave it "open". Try to adapt the attitude "who cares".

Try not to have those "rejections" effect you negatively, that would tell her that you are immature guy. Don't get upset or insulted, don't get down on yourself. Learn to be NON-REACTIVE, just walk away from her with a smile, and then next time you see her hit on her again as if nothing happened. Watch her mind change in front of your eyes!

It is actually a very good strategy to get girls. You hit on her and you disappear. You hit on her again, then disappear again. She WILL remember you as a guy who likes her a lot, and next time you meet her she may actually show quite a high interest in you. Why wouldn't she? If she is a normal person, she will always like those who like her. If she is a bitch, well, good luck trying to fix her.

You also need to keep your frame. Your frame is always that you want to have sex with that girl you like. When you meet her for the first time, you want sex. That is it, no negotiations, no friendship, no orbital zone. You get rejected, well, it is ok, no big deal, you walk away with smile. You meet her second time, and you want exactly the same - sex. Imagine that you meet her for the first time and you want sex. She rejects you, but then, but 3 months later she changes her mind about you. She meets you again with HIGH interest in you, and she EXPECT you to have the same frame. Her mind is ready for that frame - but now you changed your frame and present yourself as her "friend". She will be disappointed. Don't do that, never change your frame, or she will walk away...

As far as "honor" and "pride", it depends what you mean by that, and it would be a long topic without clear conclusions anyway. IMO it is much better to talk about self-esteem, value and maturity instead. A guy should believe that his value is higher than her value. It doesn't have to be too much, but it should always be just "above" hers. If your value and self-esteem are high enough, you won't really get hurt by her rejection. It is her loss, not yours. If you put her on a pedestal, you place her value above yours and you gave up your self-esteem. Put yourself on that pedestal instead, make your value and self-esteem above hers. From this point of view, if she doesn't want to move things forward with you she simply doesn't meet YOUR standards. You walk away from her because she is not good enough for you - and not the other way...

Learn to deal with rejections differently. For example:

(1) She may reject you but you had balls to go after her regardless you knew well that there is always the possibility of being rejected. That is very good, average guy can't do that, so you should celebrate it. It takes lots of balls to go after a girl while knowing that she may reject you. (2) Rejection is not a failure, it is a forward progress. You are moving forward, you are moving to another girl, and by going after this girl you learned a lot of skills. You can use these skills with another girls. (3) Learn not to take the rejections too seriously. Look at them as a future investment as she MAY change her mind. It is like as if you put a seed in the ground, and now all you have to do is wait if something will grow out of it in the future. Sometimes it does. (4) When you meet a girl, DON'T EXPECT ANYTHING at first. You just want to talk, see what kind of person she is, what she likes and does, who are her friends. See if there is any vibes or not (you will just feel it). See if she wants to go for a date. If yes good, only now your skills should kick in. If not, ok, no big deal, just walk away. Nothing happened. Try next time. (5) Another good way to deal with rejection is of course Abundance Mentality. Talk to different girls, meet different girls, date different girls.

This way you will become more independent of one particular girl, you will become more experienced and knowledgeable, you will be less clingy and needy, your value will naturally grow - you will simply become more mature. Each rejection is actually an excellent opportunity to move forward, you are not "stuck" with one girl but you are moving forward...

 

[Prehistoric]

Thanks for the advice man.

There's a side of me who's slowly starting to think many of the things you said (although you helped me put them in words).

Maybe I should just learn to leave behind my touchy adolescent ego-protective self, who as you say, does more damage than good at the end of the day.

Another thing. What do you think about flirting, in front of a girl who just rejected me, with another girl who I never tried with before and who seems to like me? I have a similar situation at the moment and again my old adolescent self says "don't do it" and my new developing says: there's nothing better.

 

[Drck]

I think it is good, but there is more to it. Flirting is good, it creates good vibes with the girl(s) and it gives you some confidence. The interaction through flirting with girls feels good. If you flirt with girls in front of other girls, you are kind of showing abundance mentality. You show that the girl that rejected you is not that important to you, which is good, you put her to her place. You show that you feel comfortable around girls and that rejections don't mean much to you as you have choices. All good.

However, once you have more experience you will find out that flirting is not that important. Maybe just initial flirting, 1-2 times to get the vibes going, but then once the girl is interested you want to start moving things forward. If you keep flirting with the same girls without moving things forward they will lose interest in you fast. They may get frustrated and fall into auto rejection. You will be perceived as a cute and funny guy who gets them great vibes, but who has little sexual value. You don't want that.

You want to project sexual value. You can try to appear more sexy, have sexy looks and walks and so on, but IMO you should try to move things forward faster. Focus on how to invite her to a date, focus on touching her, getting closer to her and so on. Which is of course difficult for many guys without experience, but it is better to keep focused on that rather than on flirting or trying to look sexy.

The thing is, if you flirt and look sexy, it is good - but if you can't move things forward it is all useless. On the other hand, if you try to move things with her fast, she will recognize it right away and you will gain right away high sexual value - regardless of flirting and looking sexy.


A good way to understand flirting and "looking sexy" is, that you are basically saying to the girl:

- Look, I am interested in having sex with you. She then flirts back and shows an interest in you, so she is basically telling you:
- OK, that sounds good, I'm open to it and I am also interested - what are you going to do about it? So now the guy has her interest now, and he should start moving things forward. But many guys don't do anything. They flirt more, they want to look even more sexy instead. They are telling her again:
- Look, I am interested in having sex with you. And she says:
- Yes, I know, but what you gonna do about it? And he flirts more, he tries to looks even more sexy. He is telling her again:
- Look, I am interested in having sex with you. And she says again:
- I know! I'm not stupid and I'm not retarded either! I am also interested! So what are you going to do about it? And he goes and flirts again, he wants to make sure that next time he looks even more sexy so he can attract even more girls. And she goes like:
- Hey! Really, I'm not stupid! And he goes:
- Look, I am interested in having sex with you. Just look how cool I am, look how sexy I look... ,

 

[Prehistoric]

Yes, that last "conversation" you wrote makes a lot of sense. I am starting to realize that only lately. I have always been quite good in presenting myself to others as a cool one, and even charismatic.. it might be good for building social circles, but as you said it might be effective to make a good first impression but it is useless for bedding girls, if you also don't move the one-to-one interaction forward.

A couple of Girl Chase articles also enlightened me, especially those on Escalation Windows and Abundance Mentality.

I met a girl on monday. I wrote her on wednesday evening if she wanted to go for a drink on thursday evening. she said she had to go out with colleagues and that she was maybe free in the weekend. I wrote her again telling her I was free only on Saturday (I didn't want to appear I had the whole week free for her) and that I can show her some nice bars I know, and that she can teach me some dancing moves (she does Tango classes).

If she says she can't again, I'll try not to care, go out anyway and meet some other chicks.

I'll see it as a positive thing that in less than a week I met a girl, had the balls to get her number and ask her out twice. Surely it is a progress in comparison with the past.

It's a dramatic change in my way of dealing with girls but I guess it's the right direction.

Yes there is a little of internal tension (which I try not to project out) because I am getting out of my comfort zone, I hope it'll be gone soon with practice.