Background:
I'm an incel and I'm trying to work my way out of it. I've done the usual YouTube crap of getting in shape, dressing well, trying to be successful, doing social things that don't relate to dating and recently also added speech therapy. I'm here because, as we all know, YouTube crap doesn't work! You guys on here know what does. I have been wanting to have a girlfriend since 2017. I've been on maybe 50 dates from online dating systems and I've done 20-40 approaches in real life (no dates, and only fake phone numbers). I gave up approaching in 2019 and I want to get back to it ASAP. 40-45 of those dates went badly. This year I came back and started working with a coach (not GC affiliated) and the suggestion was that I should avoid doing approaches at first because I am kind of traumatized by my history with women. He preferred me to set up an online dating profile, get some dates, have them go well and then with my newfound optimism go out and do approaching.
Anyway, I am stuck in the date phase. Whatever kind of date I have, it almost always does not go well. The women are not uncomfortable with me because they stay 2-3 hours sometimes. They seem to be reasonably happy and comfortable and happy to tell me about themselves. They are usually happy with incidental touch but no more. Then we go home and I hear later by text that the woman didn't see things going forward with us or didn't feel a connection or something to that effect. I am trying to troubleshoot my dates to see how things could go better. I want to know basically whether it is 1) something I am saying, 2) something I am doing or not doing (behavior) or, 3) my fundamentals are just garbage.
I have a friend who gets maybe 1 good date out of 3 - which is an incredible number - and I ask him how he does it and he has no answer. He doesn't seem to do physical escalation or invite the women home or anything and all he can say is "be funny and be yourself". So he doesn't seem to be following the GC blueprint but it's working for him. The way I see it, 1) and 2) above may not be important at all because on GC we always seem to be advised to have a date where the guy talks minimally and just gets the woman to talk about herself. So the attention and focus is on the woman and so what the guy says and does is almost irrelevant... right? But that leaves 3) which is a really sad reality that a guy's fundamentals, which he is stuck with, are the only thing that determine his success. I see that my question is more of a discussion but can any of you tell me how i can figure out whether it is 1 or 2 or 3 or something else that needs work?
I'm an incel and I'm trying to work my way out of it. I've done the usual YouTube crap of getting in shape, dressing well, trying to be successful, doing social things that don't relate to dating and recently also added speech therapy. I'm here because, as we all know, YouTube crap doesn't work! You guys on here know what does. I have been wanting to have a girlfriend since 2017. I've been on maybe 50 dates from online dating systems and I've done 20-40 approaches in real life (no dates, and only fake phone numbers). I gave up approaching in 2019 and I want to get back to it ASAP. 40-45 of those dates went badly. This year I came back and started working with a coach (not GC affiliated) and the suggestion was that I should avoid doing approaches at first because I am kind of traumatized by my history with women. He preferred me to set up an online dating profile, get some dates, have them go well and then with my newfound optimism go out and do approaching.
Anyway, I am stuck in the date phase. Whatever kind of date I have, it almost always does not go well. The women are not uncomfortable with me because they stay 2-3 hours sometimes. They seem to be reasonably happy and comfortable and happy to tell me about themselves. They are usually happy with incidental touch but no more. Then we go home and I hear later by text that the woman didn't see things going forward with us or didn't feel a connection or something to that effect. I am trying to troubleshoot my dates to see how things could go better. I want to know basically whether it is 1) something I am saying, 2) something I am doing or not doing (behavior) or, 3) my fundamentals are just garbage.
I have a friend who gets maybe 1 good date out of 3 - which is an incredible number - and I ask him how he does it and he has no answer. He doesn't seem to do physical escalation or invite the women home or anything and all he can say is "be funny and be yourself". So he doesn't seem to be following the GC blueprint but it's working for him. The way I see it, 1) and 2) above may not be important at all because on GC we always seem to be advised to have a date where the guy talks minimally and just gets the woman to talk about herself. So the attention and focus is on the woman and so what the guy says and does is almost irrelevant... right? But that leaves 3) which is a really sad reality that a guy's fundamentals, which he is stuck with, are the only thing that determine his success. I see that my question is more of a discussion but can any of you tell me how i can figure out whether it is 1 or 2 or 3 or something else that needs work?