It was all payful till I started asking questions.

[Thor252]

Hey All

Something happened recently and its been going round and round in my head.

Can I have your opinoin about?

I went to a shopping mall, headed to the food court and bought something. Moving towards seating area, I noticed two girls, I sat on the free table between them.

Thinking how to approach the one on my right, I noticed I need a knife to open the sauce, so I told her “Would you look after my stuff? I shall go get something?” She nodded.

I went to the food shop, got 2 forks and went back. No knife there.

Once getting close to the table she made eye contact with me and smiled, I smiled too.

After sitting down I said

Me: They give you this sauce, but no knife to open it.

She: (giggling) Try to tear it from that corner.

Me: (I try, no success)

She: Maybe there is a tear there (she leaning towards me)

Me: (I have a look, can’t find any tear) I can’t see, (I hand the sauce to her) Is there any?

She: (takes the sauce, have a look) no there is none ( gives it back to me)

She: tear with your teeth.

Me ( I laugh): Go a bit wild (I tear it with my teath) It worked.

Vibe has been very playful upto this moment.

I needed to continue the convo so I go,

Me: what have you got?
She: hmmm?
Me: (I point to her dish) what have you got?
She: Chicken puff
Me(I didn’t get the world after chicken) Chicken curry you mean?
She: Chicken puff.
Me: Chicken curry? (Didn’t get the word again)
She: sure.
Me: Is it an indian food?
She: Yes.
Me: Where are you from?
She: Somewhere.
Me: Ok

And I stop speaking.

As I said vibe was very playful before I started asking about her food, and with the question where are you from she shut me down.

Few minutes passed, she is into her phone, I thought how to reopen, but didn’t come up with anything and tbh had been discouraged with her last answer so I didn’t say anything.

She finished eating, before leaving she said “nice to meet you” I replied “see ya”.

Is the question where are you from too intrusive at that moment? I have read you guys ask the question in many LRs, so the problem is not woth the question itslef but with how/when I asked? Was she ashamed of her hometown?

I would say she was happy that she looked after my food, so compliance was there, also there was a bit of arousal (leaving my food with her and tearing the sauce with tooth) but as soon as I started asking about her food the mood went down.

Did I change course of convo very forcefully?

Since she was compliant and there were a bit of arousal, should I have refrained from doing similarity and built on compliance?

What could I have done better?

I appreciate any ideas and suggestions.

 

[Chase]

@Thor252,

She could've just been in a relationship.

Happy for a playful conversation with you but shut it down once it started looking like it might lead to an outright attempt.

These things happen. You can't worry too much about any one approach for that reason.

That said, conversation-wise:

• Try not to ask people to repeat themselves too much. Unless it's something you very much need to know. Being repeatedly asked what food you're eating triggers a kind of, "Why is that so important to know that I have to repeat myself?" feeling in someone.
  
  
• If it's a playful dynamic, keep the playfulness up during the getting-to-know-you, too. Don't switch from "happy playfulness" to "serious boring questions." Risks killing the vibe.
  
  
• Try to avoid boring, IMPERSONAL factual questions. "Is curry an Indian food?" is the kind of thing you could ask Google or an LLM. You don't need to ask the girl this (it has nothing whatsoever to do with HER!). A better question: "You like that Bangin' Bangalore restaurant, huh?" Now, rather than ask about an impersonal fact, you are asking for her opinion.
  
  
• Aim to make connections between your topics. "Is it an Indian food?" --> "Where are you from?" are totally disconnected.

Instead:

YOU: [point] What's that you've got there? Looks scrumptious!​

​

HER: Chicken puff.​

​

YOU: Must be from that Bangin' Bangalore restaurant.​

​

HER: Yeah.​

​

YOU: They've got like 15 of those all over my hometown. That restaurant's blowing up!​

​

HER: Where are you from?​

​

YOU: Heaven originally, but I grew up in Schenectady. Are you a local?​

​

HER: More or less.​

​

YOU: Well that's mysterious. You're not hiding from the CIA are you?​

​

HER: Maybe I am!​

​

YOU: I'd better be careful around you. Last thing I need is to get brought in for questioning due to a chance meeting in a shopping mall food court.​

When you don't know what the food is, you just make an assumption. If you're wrong, she can always correct you.

Then you use that to tie into the location question, in this case by mentioning that the restaurant is blowing up in your hometown (baiting her to ask what hometown that is).

Then some playful banter when she's vague about where she's from.

Etc. etc.

Chase

 

[Kaida]

• Try not to ask people to repeat themselves too much. Unless it's something you very much need to know. Being repeatedly asked what food you're eating triggers a kind of, "Why is that so important to know that I have to repeat myself?" feeling in someone.
  
  
• If it's a playful dynamic, keep the playfulness up during the getting-to-know-you, too. Don't switch from "happy playfulness" to "serious boring questions." Risks killing the vibe.
  
  
• Try to avoid boring, IMPERSONAL factual questions. "Is curry an Indian food?" is the kind of thing you could ask Google or an LLM. You don't need to ask the girl this (it has nothing whatsoever to do with HER!). A better question: "You like that Bangin' Bangalore restaurant, huh?" Now, rather than ask about an impersonal fact, you are asking for her opinion.
  
  
• Aim to make connections between your topics. "Is it an Indian food?" --> "Where are you from?" are totally disconnected.

How do you start to develop the eye for learning social rules like these? Especially when it comes to creating more social power for yourself.

These ones were fairly simple (i knew all but the first one) but sometimes I’m in a group conversation and I know I’m breaking a social rule or losing social power but I don’t know what’s causing it or how to increase my SP.

Happens to me especially in new groups

 

[James D]

Is the question where are you from too intrusive at that moment? I have read you guys ask the question in many LRs, so the problem is not woth the question itslef but with how/when I asked? Was she ashamed of her hometown?

The question felt out of place and unrelated.

Low key feels like an interrogation at an airport immigration.

 

[Chase]

@Kaida,

How do you start to develop the eye for learning social rules like these? Especially when it comes to creating more social power for yourself.

These ones were fairly simple (i knew all but the first one) but sometimes I’m in a group conversation and I know I’m breaking a social rule or losing social power but I don’t know what’s causing it or how to increase my SP.

Happens to me especially in new groups

Pure social experience is the best way.

You just develop instincts for it.

I didn't learn any of those "rules" I listed out mechanically.

I just looked at Thor's example and said, "This doesn't feel right. What feels wrong about it to me?" then picked out the individual elements, then defined the subconscious rule I had around it, then brought it up into conscious awareness and spelled it out in the post.

It sounds like you've already done that for most of them.

Some of the more subtle ones (like how people feel about being asked to repeat themselves for some insignificant thing) you need to pick up through being on both sides -- asking people to do it and getting that weird reaction like "I'll answer, but this is a bit weird, don't you think?" where you feel kind of awkward, then having people do it to you and you on the receiving end are like "Why is this so important? Why do I have to tell you this? Is this relevant to anything?"

At some point it all gels and your social brain just says, "That would be an uncomfortable question to ask," and you just change the topic rather than ask for a repetition (or ask at all).

Chase

 

[Thor252]

@Kaida,



Pure social experience is the best way.

You just develop instincts for it.

I didn't learn any of those "rules" I listed out mechanically.

I just looked at Thor's example and said, "This doesn't feel right. What feels wrong about it to me?" then picked out the individual elements, then defined the subconscious rule I had around it, then brought it up into conscious awareness and spelled it out in the post.

It sounds like you've already done that for most of them.

Some of the more subtle ones (like how people feel about being asked to repeat themselves for some insignificant thing) you need to pick up through being on both sides -- asking people to do it and getting that weird reaction like "I'll answer, but this is a bit weird, don't you think?" where you feel kind of awkward, then having people do it to you and you on the receiving end are like "Why is this so important? Why do I have to tell you this? Is this relevant to anything?"

At some point it all gels and your social brain just says, "That would be an uncomfortable question to ask," and you just change the topic rather than ask for a repetition (or ask at all).

Chase

Thanks Chase! Realy helpful points, specifically the one you mentioned about paying attention to what’s going on in our subconcious and bringing it to conciuos.

Doing that I think I won’t need to memorize lot of things and worry about them all the time, but will be able to feel the vibe and flow with it.

 

[Thor252]

The question felt out of place and unrelated.

Low key feels like an interrogation at an airport immigration.

That is right.

And it seems being related is the main point of a smooth conversation. I love to reach to a point to be able to run a convesation smoothly.

Are there any articles about this?

 

[Marty]

HER: Where are you from?
YOU: Heaven originally, but I grew up in Schenectady. Are you a local?

Omg I just can't so good!

 

[Skills]

The question felt out of place and unrelated.

Low key feels like an interrogation at an airport immigration.

Yes this was the main issue subcommunicate lack of social intelligence, and telegraph too much interest with no flow...

After she helped you... You should have said thank you... You are a lifesaver... They didn't teach me how to open sauces in college what a waste of money... I am tho by the way... Nice to meet you?? Food is great here do you usually come here with your boyfriend? To get
out of the way is seeing anyone...

Keep it playful no big deal flowing
.. but you did a really good job... Just asked the wrong questions...

 

[Skills]

Omg I just can't so good!

Mine is i am from heaven i just felt and hurt my knees or my mom says i am from heaven and my ex says i am from hell so who knows.. but in this case op asked the question not her....

 

[James D]

Are there any articles about this?

Plenty.

Best is to keep practicing and learning from mistakes.

It's great you posted with details.

Now you've learnt a couple more things to watch out for next time you're in this situation.

Keep adjusting and you'll reach a point where everything runs smoothly.

 

[Spike]

with the question where are you from she shut me down.

It died before that.

what have you got?
She: Chicken puff
Me(I didn’t get the world after chicken) Chicken curry you mean?
She: Chicken puff.
Me: Chicken curry? (Didn’t get the word again)
She: sure

This is what killed it

 

[Thor252]

This is what killed it

Agree

Felt the mood shift

 

[Thor252]

Yes this was the main issue subcommunicate lack of social intelligence, and telegraph too much interest with no flow...

After she helped you... You should have said thank you... You are a lifesaver... They didn't teach me how to open sauces in college what a waste of money... I am tho by the way... Nice to meet you?? Food is great here do you usually come here with your boyfriend? To get
out of the way is seeing anyone...

Keep it playful no big deal flowing
.. but you did a really good job... Just asked the wrong questions...

Thanks Skills!

Your sample feels very natural and related.
You just say “thank you” after someone gives you an effective suggestion, right? And then keep going with what you already have. No magic, no big steps.

“Small steps” is my take away from your comment.
Also you know what you want to achieve. You know where you are headed and take small steps towards it.

 

[Chase]

Omg I just can't so good!

Can't take too much credit for it.

Lifted it from some old Hollywood film from the 40s or 50s.

There's a surprising amount of great quippy "pattern-interrupt-y" banter in older Hollywood flicks, often delivered in an offhand "drop it and keep moving" way that just assumes the girl will get the joke and/or get baited by the bait.

e.g.,

Her: Are you from around here?

You: Unfortunately, yes, but if all goes well not for much longer.

Or:

Her: Are you from around here?

You: If by "around here" you mean a 5-minute walk that way, then yes absolutely!

Or:

Her: What do you do?

You: Just about anything I like. But I think you want to know my profession, right? I'm a writer.

Etc.

Shows a lot more character than just giving a boring basic answer.

Chase

 

[Marty]

There's a surprising amount of great quippy "pattern-interrupt-y" banter in older Hollywood flicks, often delivered in an offhand "drop it and keep moving" way that just assumes the girl will get the joke and/or get baited by the bait.

@Mr Mistah and I had fun with this a while back.

 

[MrVariety]

I find it strange she would say "Nice to meet you" when leaving after "shutting you down".

Are you sure that "anywhere" meant "stop talking to me?" how was her body language or tonality?

Perhaps "anywhere" could be an invitation to spark up the playful vibe again.

"Where are you from?"
"Somewhere "
"Ah I've heard of that place, I'd like to visit some time. You look like a girl from anywhere though."

But yeah I agree with the others making her repeat herself about what she's eating, and then asking if curry is an indian food (everyone should know this) isn't ideal.

Also be careful not relying too much about cluelessness. I get the temptation, she reacted positive due to sauce thing, now let's continue being clueless asking about Indian cuisines and stuff. But it's not super sexy if you keep pushing that button.

About the transition. Well, I think the problem is two unrelated questions in a row. Going random question interview mode because you feel you have nothing to talk about.

After having fun with the sauce thing you could have just paused for a moment, maybe mess with your food a little bit and then ask "What's your name?" or "Where are you from?" as if it's a spontaneous question like you just realized the helpful girl next to you is actually kind of cute. Asking her name or origin switches the frame of the conversation immediately from fun to getting to know each other, which is useful if you suspect your intentions are coming across as too diffuse due to too much playfulness.

Mr Variety

 

[Thor252]

I find it strange she would say "Nice to meet you" when leaving after "shutting you down".

Are you sure that "anywhere" meant "stop talking to me?" how was her body language or tonality?

Perhaps "anywhere" could be an invitation to spark up the playful vibe again.

"Where are you from?"
"Somewhere "
"Ah I've heard of that place, I'd like to visit some time. You look like a girl from anywhere though."

But yeah I agree with the others making her repeat herself about what she's eating, and then asking if curry is an indian food (everyone should know this) isn't ideal.

Also be careful not relying too much about cluelessness. I get the temptation, she reacted positive due to sauce thing, now let's continue being clueless asking about Indian cuisines and stuff. But it's not super sexy if you keep pushing that button.

About the transition. Well, I think the problem is two unrelated questions in a row. Going random question interview mode because you feel you have nothing to talk about.

After having fun with the sauce thing you could have just paused for a moment, maybe mess with your food a little bit and then ask "What's your name?" or "Where are you from?" as if it's a spontaneous question like you just realized the helpful girl next to you is actually kind of cute. Asking her name or origin switches the frame of the conversation immediately from fun to getting to know each other, which is useful if you suspect your intentions are coming across as too diffuse due to too much playfulness.

Mr Variety

Yes, that “nice to meet you” was realy unexpected.

Just like you say, I might have misread her tone saying “I am from somewhere.”