LAFS: How it works and what to do when it happens

[Definitely_not_a_gymrat]

@Definitely_not_a_gymrat,



Regular approach excitement is kind of like, "Oh nice, there's a cutie I can talk to! She's got a mean walk!"

Love at first sight is like, "Holy Mother of God, there goes the future mother of my babies." You just feel it in your bones.

Ahh ok makes sense, will try to look for the second one more often. The first one any male with a sex drive has experienced - nothing special.

You stick your dick in her.

-Chase

Okay, clearly I’m overthinking it.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

Also sounds like you know where things went off the rails. It's one of those things you just learn over time as you spend time with girls, that your 'value' as a lover doesn't come from things like your job and your 401k, but instead from the experience she has of being with you - not just while you're having sex, but talking, teasing, and playing the seduction game with you.

You're giving her what all the other guys, for all their 'high value', have no idea how to give her - an adventure into the possibilities of right now. You're showing her what she can be right now, what she already is but doesn't know she is, and what she can experience, in every moment, stripped of all the fetters and mundane things that she has always longed to throw away.

Yes, my issue is that I have not felt this as an experience to truly internalise how it works. So it's difficult to imagine what kind of actions and time spent will give this form of value to the girl, especially long term. And I mean it practically.

For example, I don't care much about taking girls to wild adventures, trips, crazy parties and experiences. I much more prefer being present with them looking at them deeply and connecting at such a primal level that creates a intense experience without even needing to leave the room.

So it's probably a question of whether I can truly provide such an experience to the point that the girl is totally fulfilled by it and doesn't look for external things. I suppose this comes with time and by being with girls you gradually become better at creating it and also more confident in your abilities.

I also feel that especially for longer term relationships finding the type of girl that matches with what you want is quite important. I mean if a girl is really into heavy partying and doing drugs, although I can be confident that I can satisfy her without them, why would I even want to get with her and fight against her conditioning, when I don't care much about the parties and the drugs.

Do you think that perhaps the way you responded to the first girl was more spontaneous and genuine, and afterward you were simply trying to reproduce that to get a similar reaction? Or do you feel that you genuinely showed other girls how you felt?

I can say that generally the more spontaneous I am with my approaches, the more authentic they are and the better they are received. With that girl I saw her suddenly walking towards me and I didn't have much time to react, it was just a wow you look incredible. And generally with a lot of girls that happen to walk in front of me, or I pass in front of them, that I didn't notice earlier my reaction can be like this.

If I do notice the girl first however from far away, whether it is nightime, daygame, social circle etc I am getting more or less in a mindset of: Ok, I have to make a good approach, what would be the best one? So it is getting me in my head a bit, because I know I will approach, so I am thinking how to maximise my chances for a good first impression.

This has led to a variety of responses, from feeling absolutely fake and prepared and falling flat, to being a very insightful observation about a girl that gets her intrigued. I think the worst is when I can't really find something specific to compliment, but I still don't want to just say that she looks lovely for a reason I cannot explain, so I end up giving some compliment that sounds better, like that she has an incredible style, but was not what I felt when I saw her.

Thinking back, I feel I have showed to girls how I have felt quite some times, that said I do feel that generally the opening is one of the areas of game I am "performing" the most, in order to capture the attention of the girls instantly. This comes also from the fact that especially in daygame if the girl is walking or if she is waiting for some public transport or if she is in the middle of some chore, I feel that I have such a short window of opportunity to captivate her, that the opening has to be really great.

That sounds immediately to me like neediness.

There is a big, but in some ways subtle, difference between neediness and showing the kind of interest and desire that women like to receive. For me, the easiest way to tell is how my expression of it makes me feel - does it make me feel strong, happy, exhilarated, as if expressing it is satisfying in itself regardless of what she does? Or does it make me feel weak, unconstituted, scattered, dependent on her reaction? Sometimes you feel like you are expressing yourself a certain way, but the emotional feedback you get from your own expressions tells you a different story.

It is probably coming off like this, at least some times. Again this whole idea of feeling I have to do a great, technically correct approach plays a role here. It's something to pay attention to, it is affected a lot by my general state as well. For example after walking around and approaching for a while, I can get tired and notice that the approaches start deteriorating.

I think I can feel the difference, so the important think is to put my mind and body in the place that doesn't communicate neediness as much as possible.

This is also a very good mindset:

If she refuses my approach, the experience is still complete to me, as an affirmation, as an act of courage for myself, an act of cohesion between my perception and my drive and my actions. It is as if the painting faded away as I approached it, but I am not bothered by this, because it will appear again soon, in a different way and in a different place.

I am really trying to cultivate this. My issue is that after a while of doing non-needy approaches, leaving gracefully, and feeling alright even through the rejection, the thoughts I start having are: "Ok you are not needy, you appreciate women unconditionally but you would also like to be with some of them and they are barely showing interest back, shouldn't you try to capture their interest/attention more if you also want results?"

And this gets me into reading about a number of tactics and techniques about how to open and hook, which don't really change my results, frustrate me more because I have no idea what else to try and do, and make me more needy.

And then i reach a point when I discard all this and go back to be non-needy about my approaches. And that is what I should be doing all the time really. The only thing I don't know is if trusting that after a number of approaches and rejections there will be girls I like that will reciprocate is viable. Because in theory there may be such girls, but they may come after a huge number of approaches.

It reminds me a bit of the mindset regarding letting all women go. Basically that you should be fully validated by yourself, and feel ok even if you don't get any other woman in the rest of your life. Which is a good idea, but I struggle a lot with it, because in practice it does feel like no matter your approach, mindset, life view is, if you are desiring women and they don't desire you back, you are failing biologically.

I don't want to presume too much but I get the sense that you are so focused on being successful with women that you have forgotten what it means to you, you cannot express anymore to these women anything spontaneous about your dream of yourself and them together.

Which brings me indeed here. I probably feel that it is the only objective measure of success, being able to be with the women you want, and this hurts me in the way you are describing. And I mean objective from the biological perspective that I mentioned above, I desire certain women, they don't desire me but someone else, so this someone else will get their genes while I will not.

I guess this is the issue, that I view it as a metric of success and I am purely fixated on achieving it not so much because of the experiences I will be able to have through it, but because I intrinsically feel that not getting it means I am a failure.

I would even say that this dream of me and them together although it exists, it is something I have suppressed as not worth paying attention to, when I cannot even get the girls I want to sleep with me. It is a case of thinking that the girls will not care about this dream you have of yourself and them, until they are properly attracted to you to consider your dream offer as something they would want to explore.

I see how what you are describing would work though. Basically living this dream and expressing it could create attraction. You start with the offer, you live it yourself and you are expressing it to her, not to get something, but because this is how you enjoy experiencing the world and the connection between you and a woman. You don't try to seduce, you simply are.

Which feels like a way better why than feeling like a biological success.

What kind of experience do you want to have with them? What fantasy puts a smile on your face when you think about it? What sort of man do you want to be when you are with them, how do you want them to look at you and respond to you? Don't forget these things! Immerse yourself in them regularly and keep them in mind. Find ways to express this man, even when women are not around.

And this gets us to the important part, basically realising who you are and what you want. These are all interesting questions, I won't get into answering them here, because all this will end up getting way too deep, but I'll say that throughout my experiences and still learning more about myself I have certain things that I do like and would want, for example the being present part i mentioned in the beginning of this post.

It will be useful to figure these out more specifically, and mostly to feel them so that I can express them regularly. Some can be more clear, some less, at least I believe I can feel the directions they are going, and it is about focusing on them to fully reveal and live them.

 

[Will_V]

Yes, my issue is that I have not felt this as an experience to truly internalise how it works. So it's difficult to imagine what kind of actions and time spent will give this form of value to the girl, especially long term. And I mean it practically.

Have you not felt it yourself, have you never created this experience for yourself?

If you cannot create a bubble, an adventure, a full experience of the present moment for yourself, it's very difficult (perhaps impossible) to create it for someone else.

The rhythm and tone of our emotions are contagious, they use words and photons as vehicles to cross between people. What we say doesn't matter if the emotions that cross between us do not synchronize with it, or are absent.

The same way that a man who does not love himself cannot love anyone else, the man who cannot gift himself the experience he would like to gift to women, cannot manufacture it from nothing.

For example, I don't care much about taking girls to wild adventures, trips, crazy parties and experiences. I much more prefer being present with them looking at them deeply and connecting at such a primal level that creates a intense experience without even needing to leave the room.

So it's probably a question of whether I can truly provide such an experience to the point that the girl is totally fulfilled by it and doesn't look for external things. I suppose this comes with time and by being with girls you gradually become better at creating it and also more confident in your abilities.

I also feel that especially for longer term relationships finding the type of girl that matches with what you want is quite important. I mean if a girl is really into heavy partying and doing drugs, although I can be confident that I can satisfy her without them, why would I even want to get with her and fight against her conditioning, when I don't care much about the parties and the drugs.

It's clear to me from all your writing that you have an ideal to be a man who can take a woman into an adventure of the now, an internal fantasy, an exploration and actualization of the self. That's a great ideal to have. I think that's the most powerful of sexual experiences.

But where is your own internal fantasy, where is your own adventure of the now? I don't see it very often in your writing, it doesn't come across to me very strongly.

If you want a girl to be caught up in the joy of being naked and alive, to be wholly satisfied with that when she is with you, then you have to go there first, in your own life and in your own mind, in the silence of your own thoughts and experiences. And then like an artist you have to learn to express that outward, in all your words and movements, with your whole self.

But never, ever, as a mere tool to get something. Instead, as an offer of what you already are, of what you are already happy and elated to be.

I can say that generally the more spontaneous I am with my approaches, the more authentic they are and the better they are received. With that girl I saw her suddenly walking towards me and I didn't have much time to react, it was just a wow you look incredible. And generally with a lot of girls that happen to walk in front of me, or I pass in front of them, that I didn't notice earlier my reaction can be like this.

If I do notice the girl first however from far away, whether it is nightime, daygame, social circle etc I am getting more or less in a mindset of: Ok, I have to make a good approach, what would be the best one? So it is getting me in my head a bit, because I know I will approach, so I am thinking how to maximise my chances for a good first impression.

Well, this is a clear case of where you should dump all your thoughts, put your attention on whatever you most like about her, and move toward her without knowing what you want to do or say. It's better to fuck up a real self-expression than to spend 5 minutes talking to her like a robot until she gets tired of it.

I never know what I'm going to say when I approach a woman, ever. I never use canned lines or anything like that. Sometimes I walk up and it takes me three seconds to get my head clear enough to say something. But those three seconds communicate more, and more effectively, than I could ever accomplish with some routine.

I am not afraid of silence, at all. I hate to hear filler words, especially out of my own mouth. And I would never throw garbage on top of what my face and my body are already expressing far better than any words could.

Seduction is a game, an art. A lot of people seem to forget that. Play around with it, fuck it up in interesting ways, make it an adventure within your own life. As long as you are kind and gentle, women will never hold it against you for having your fun with them, the same way they are happy to let you turn them into a pretzel in bed for your own enjoyment.

I think the worst is when I can't really find something specific to compliment, but I still don't want to just say that she looks lovely for a reason I cannot explain, so I end up giving some compliment that sounds better, like that she has an incredible style, but was not what I felt when I saw her.

That's exactly what you should tell her! "You look lovely today!". Why not? If you don't know why, just say "You look lovely today, I don't know why!". I've said that sort of thing many times.

It is not your words that count.

This comes also from the fact that especially in daygame if the girl is walking or if she is waiting for some public transport or if she is in the middle of some chore, I feel that I have such a short window of opportunity to captivate her, that the opening has to be really great.

This is pure neediness.

It is probably coming off like this, at least some times. Again this whole idea of feeling I have to do a great, technically correct approach plays a role here. It's something to pay attention to, it is affected a lot by my general state as well. For example after walking around and approaching for a while, I can get tired and notice that the approaches start deteriorating.

I think I can feel the difference, so the important think is to put my mind and body in the place that doesn't communicate neediness as much as possible.

Instead of putting your body in a place that doesn't communicate neediness, stop being needy.

I am really trying to cultivate this. My issue is that after a while of doing non-needy approaches, leaving gracefully, and feeling alright even through the rejection, the thoughts I start having are: "Ok you are not needy, you appreciate women unconditionally but you would also like to be with some of them and they are barely showing interest back, shouldn't you try to capture their interest/attention more if you also want results?"

The way I have always done it is to build on small successes.

Rather than create a blanket perception "I love women unconditionally, they barely show interest back" both of which are probably fundamentally untrue, I think:

"I did this today and it went well, can I do something like that with the next girl, can I have the same fun and enjoyment again today".

Focusing and putting attention on very small successes, and reveling in them, gives your mind clear points of action to look for and repeat and amplify.

It reminds me a bit of the mindset regarding letting all women go. Basically that you should be fully validated by yourself, and feel ok even if you don't get any other woman in the rest of your life. Which is a good idea, but I struggle a lot with it, because in practice it does feel like no matter your approach, mindset, life view is, if you are desiring women and they don't desire you back, you are failing biologically.

Yeah, that idea of not needing anything is bullshit. I see guys on youtube carrying on about being free of all need for women, they usually look like husks, old before their time, confusing emptiness and listlessness for peace. That's not the way I see myself.

The way I look at it, I am fully validated by my experiences of seeking out women, of being on my adventure.

Even if my dick got caught in an escalator or something and I had to say goodbye to it, I would still approach women, and it would still satisfy me.

Because it is my ideal to be this man, to express my truth about who I am, to tease and touch and enjoy everything about women. That is what gives me patience and kindness with them, and curbs my frustrations. I just return my attention to that ideal.

Which brings me indeed here. I probably feel that it is the only objective measure of success, being able to be with the women you want, and this hurts me in the way you are describing. And I mean objective from the biological perspective that I mentioned above, I desire certain women, they don't desire me but someone else, so this someone else will get their genes while I will not.

I guess this is the issue, that I view it as a metric of success and I am purely fixated on achieving it not so much because of the experiences I will be able to have through it, but because I intrinsically feel that not getting it means I am a failure.

Well, this isn't a very helpful way to look at it. Unless you're planning to be the next Genghis Khan, you're probably only going to get one set of genes anyway, and other dudes will deal with the rest.

A little bit of competitiveness and achievement seeking is good, but too much just becomes neediness.

I see how what you are describing would work though. Basically living this dream and expressing it could create attraction. You start with the offer, you live it yourself and you are expressing it to her, not to get something, but because this is how you enjoy experiencing the world and the connection between you and a woman. You don't try to seduce, you simply are.

Which feels like a way better why than feeling like a biological success.

That's exactly how I view and experience seduction.

For me, seduction is in some ways a complete, self-centered experience, even though I am very open and inviting to her. I do it for myself, to enjoy myself and be at peace with myself. I offer it to her, but only after helping myself to it.

And this gets us to the important part, basically realising who you are and what you want. These are all interesting questions, I won't get into answering them here, because all this will end up getting way too deep, but I'll say that throughout my experiences and still learning more about myself I have certain things that I do like and would want, for example the being present part i mentioned in the beginning of this post.

It will be useful to figure these out more specifically, and mostly to feel them so that I can express them regularly. Some can be more clear, some less, at least I believe I can feel the directions they are going, and it is about focusing on them to fully reveal and live them.

Self knowledge is a wonderful thing. The more you know about yourself, the more you value and love yourself, the more of a presence you have, the more certainty you express in everything you do, the more you gift things to yourself, and the more generous you are to men and women in your life.

Create that experience for yourself of being elated just to be the person you are, with all these imperfect experiences, opportunities, capabilities, characteristics that you have, and you'll be able to make a girl feel the same way.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

Have you not felt it yourself, have you never created this experience for yourself?

If you cannot create a bubble, an adventure, a full experience of the present moment for yourself, it's very difficult (perhaps impossible) to create it for someone else.

The rhythm and tone of our emotions are contagious, they use words and photons as vehicles to cross between people. What we say doesn't matter if the emotions that cross between us do not synchronize with it, or are absent.

The same way that a man who does not love himself cannot love anyone else, the man who cannot gift himself the experience he would like to gift to women, cannot manufacture it from nothing.

I understand that you have to experience it first, in order to share it. I am not sure if it is exactly the same, because honestly having a woman in this bubble creates a sense of excitement in me that feels different than when I am alone. I suppose that's why we enjoy women and are meant to be together anyway.

That said, I feel that in general being fine when I am by myself is something I can do. It is a work in progress, finding out what makes you feel more alive and going after it more and more, I do feel that I have had many times that I have felt perfectly well on my own though. In fact I feel that my struggles usually start when I am trying to include others. It feels like I have to stop doing what I am doing for myself and somehow change it into something that will appeal to them, which gets me into thinking how I can make it appeal to them the most.

For example I have gone out in clubs dancing by myself, letting go and being fully in the moment, and it's surely a great time, that said when I try to include someone else, talk to a woman, bring her in or dance together, it almost instantly breaks this bubble and gets me out of the moment. It makes it feel like I am stopping what I am doing, in order to pursue something else.

That is why I am also unsure about how what I am experiencing on my own can be transformed into a shared experience effectively. It could be that I should just trust in myself and stop thinking I have to provide what I believe would make the girl's time the best and simply focus on offering what makes me feel the best, and accept however she responds to it.

It's clear to me from all your writing that you have an ideal to be a man who can take a woman into an adventure of the now, an internal fantasy, an exploration and actualization of the self. That's a great ideal to have. I think that's the most powerful of sexual experiences.

But where is your own internal fantasy, where is your own adventure of the now? I don't see it very often in your writing, it doesn't come across to me very strongly.

If you want a girl to be caught up in the joy of being naked and alive, to be wholly satisfied with that when she is with you, then you have to go there first, in your own life and in your own mind, in the silence of your own thoughts and experiences. And then like an artist you have to learn to express that outward, in all your words and movements, with your whole self.

But never, ever, as a mere tool to get something. Instead, as an offer of what you already are, of what you are already happy and elated to be.

This is interesting, because for a part I deliberately don't include it in my writing. I've had the thought process that by stripping it of most romantic and emotional elements and keeping it to the events and facts of the situations, it will make what I write less subjective and easier to analyse and practically get something out of it. It is in a way a thought of: "Who cares how incredible the moment felt, you missed qualifying her and she didn't want to come home, that's all that matters and where you should focus on".

Probably trying to push away all the little enjoyments of the moment, in order to not be carried away from the things I need to change and improve is too punishing and hurting me. It should be possible to feel grateful for a little beautiful moments, accept any result and be able to recognise how you could express yourself better.

Maybe that's why I have also felt lately that the more a girl gets closer to me the more intensely she gets into me. Because in the beginning of the seduction until we reach a certain point that I feel she is attracted enough, I am trying to do things the right away to get a result, and later I relax and I am more myself.

I guess it is a bit surprising, because I had spent quite some time thinking that a girl experiencing the real me will push her away more than bring her close, if it happens before sex. It could be that I have started internalising my own seductive nature, becoming more grounded and true to myself, and I should simply focus on enhancing this and share it with the girls and people of my life openly.

Still a work in progress as I said, but I should trust in myself and in that leading a life I truly love is all that matters.

Well, this is a clear case of where you should dump all your thoughts, put your attention on whatever you most like about her, and move toward her without knowing what you want to do or say. It's better to fuck up a real self-expression than to spend 5 minutes talking to her like a robot until she gets tired of it.

I never know what I'm going to say when I approach a woman, ever. I never use canned lines or anything like that. Sometimes I walk up and it takes me three seconds to get my head clear enough to say something. But those three seconds communicate more, and more effectively, than I could ever accomplish with some routine.

I am not afraid of silence, at all. I hate to hear filler words, especially out of my own mouth. And I would never throw garbage on top of what my face and my body are already expressing far better than any words could.

Seduction is a game, an art. A lot of people seem to forget that. Play around with it, fuck it up in interesting ways, make it an adventure within your own life. As long as you are kind and gentle, women will never hold it against you for having your fun with them, the same way they are happy to let you turn them into a pretzel in bed for your own enjoyment.

Yeah this is a great way to look at it. After starting clueless about women, and having years of reading theories and techniques without truly feeling them, it gets you to a point of thinking you just have to learn it better to get the results you want. Depends what kind of advice you follow as well, I got very much into verbal game initially, believing that you really have a correct sequence of events to follow and responses to give that secure you the girls.

I suppose having a general process is good, but when you go straight to it, without feeling all the principles to your core it does get extremely mechanical. The more I progress in fact, the more I find that focusing on my energy is what is the most important. So I should stay more real with myself and our experience in general.

The way I have always done it is to build on small successes.

Rather than create a blanket perception "I love women unconditionally, they barely show interest back" both of which are probably fundamentally untrue, I think:

"I did this today and it went well, can I do something like that with the next girl, can I have the same fun and enjoyment again today".

Focusing and putting attention on very small successes, and reveling in them, gives your mind clear points of action to look for and repeat and amplify.

Yeah being grateful for the small successes and moments you enjoyed is something I should do more. It keeps you going feeling well and seeing wins everywhere, without beating yourself that you are doing more and more but without substantial results.

And I love the rest of what you discussed, not really many comments, I feel that your approach is quite close to how I would aspire to live my life.

I do believe that everything starts internally, so focusing on living a life you love is the most important goal. And if you love women they will be a part of it and it will be expressed naturally.

 

[empath]

Apart from the idea of a guy being drive as put by @Chase

And

A guy feeling deserving and having high-self esteem as put by @Will_V

I think cultural conditioning will also play a part in it

In wese there is this idea of soul mate and romance is seen something natural as opposed to say here in India, where 5-6 years before it was sort of taboo and arranged marriges were the way to go.

So in my childhood I was never had this idea or fantasy to meet and ideal/dream girl, fall in love and settle with her.

So I never developed the idea of romance and even at starting of PU it was more about getting notches more than experiences of life.

So i feel cultural conditioning through movies, stories also play part in experiencing love at first sight.

And I think it is something I won't bother myself for now.

If I end up experiencing great if I don't then also it works.

Though I am keeping my eyes open for it.