LASIK: how's your experience?

[lux7]

One of the reasons I was at bad at math in high school was that I couldn't actually read the whiteboard.
I was nervous when people talked about eyes and sight because that was that was the weakness I didn't want people to know.

And I was nervous when professors used the whiteboard fearing they could ask me something about it and uncover my weakness.
The day it actually happened was one of the worst moment of high school, if not the worst.

I've come a long way since then, and after 11 years of glasses I'm really thinking about LASIK, also because at -4.5 my lenses are quite thick and ugly.

The operation should be for free in Europe I think, but what about healing time?
Can a working person afford such an operation without taking days off?

 

[luego]

Why not contacts? Definite appeal to lasik, especially with your moderate prescription (and at -4.5 you should be able to get THIN glasses.... mine aren't that bad and I'm -9.75). But I'm back to wearing contacts 90% of the time now. I cant' get lasik as there's not enough cornea to fix such a prescription.

Go talk to them. Free consults. There's basically 3 different types of laser procedures with varying "success" rates, but (a) I worry about problems with night vision, as I know many people who have experienced that (b) I was warned that even if they could do my eyes, I'd probably still need reading glasses, and the flattening of the cornea would rule out wearing contacts again and (c) there's an expectation it will need to be "re-done" (anywhere from a year to a decade or more down the line).

It's basically instant healing though. Maybe a day or so off, if that. They do one eye at a time, weeks or so apart, usually.

 

[trashKENNUT]

I know this is ridiculous but

Set few times each day looking at trees,green trees.

There's a research that said it helps. My eyes went from 250 to 125 to 150. The degrees went up because i never maintain it.

Zac

 

[TheWiseFool]

Zac, that is some interesting information. Thank you!

 

[lux7]

I know this is ridiculous but

Set few times each day looking at trees,green trees.

There's a research that said it helps. My eyes went from 250 to 125 to 150. The degrees went up because i never maintain it.

Zac

You serious?

I was once reading a website saying the whole optician industry was built on a lies as short sightedness could be fixed in natural way but I've never met anyone who actually managed to it.

Anyway, Lasik could still be the quickest/more efficient way.
Provided it works for everyone and you're able to get to 0, how many eyeglasses should you change before you won't need them anymore?

 

[PinotNoir]

My friend got lasik this past December, and he has been thoroughly happy with it.

First, your vision has to have stayed consistent for the past few years. He is 24. If you're in high school or college, your vision may still be fluctuating due to growth. Prior to the operation, his vision was a consistent 400 something every year. Mine has been a consistent 275 ever since college, so I could be eligible. Also, he had an astigmatism in both eyes, and sometimes this can be a complication but wasn't for him. I have an astigmatism in my right eye only.

Second, you're awake the entire time during the operation. It's very uncomfortable, even though you can't feel anything. Imagine looking with eyelids open and no blinking (due to device holding your eyelids open) the entire time while a doctor cuts into your eyes with a laser. You also have to be as still as possible, or you can be seriously screwed. They constantly put drops in your eyes or put some type of stuff in your eyes so that they don't get dry.

Third, don't go cheap. This isn't the sort of operation you should cut corners on and shop around for the cheapest. My friend shopped around for the 2nd best eye doctor around. Why 2nd best? He has less clients, so my friend felt like he got more attention and not just another number. He went to the top 5 in the area though and talked with each one. Do your research and your homework.

After lasik, the healing was super easy and fast. I think he just had to spend 3 days at home away from work, and you can't swim for a few months after the operation. You'll want to be careful with rain (always have an umbrella) and to obviously avoid a dessert or a dust storm or something like that. After a few months though, you don't need to worry about that anymore.

He had a very successful operation and loves it. He wakes up in the morning and just sees, something he hasn't been able to do since a child, and he's a lot happier after it.

On the flip side, I'll never do it. I don't wish to take the chance of surgery on my eyes. I really don't mind contact lenses and glasses. It doesn't bother me in the slightest. Also, some days I will wear glasses instead of contact lenses, and it just gives me a different fashionable look. You can do the same thing with non-prescription glasses, but then people are always like, "Why are you wearing glasses if you don't have bad vision? Wtf?"

His vision is actually better than 20/20 now. I think it's 20/17 and hasn't had any problems.

EDIT: I also wanted to mention that it's not guaranteed to be permanent. On average, people's vision begins to change again every 7 years. In 7 years, he may have dropped back down to 20/20 or even 19/20. After a decade or two, he may have to get the operation again. However, everyone is different and everyone ages differently. Some people have permanent perfect vision for the rest of their lives.

 

[lux7]

My friend got lasik this past December, and he has been thoroughly happy with it.

First, your vision has to have stayed consistent for the past few years. He is 24. If you're in high school or college, your vision may still be fluctuating due to growth. Prior to the operation, his vision was a consistent 400 something every year. Mine has been a consistent 275 ever since college, so I could be eligible. Also, he had an astigmatism in both eyes, and sometimes this can be a complication but wasn't for him. I have an astigmatism in my right eye only.

Second, you're awake the entire time during the operation. It's very uncomfortable, even though you can't feel anything. Imagine looking with eyelids open and no blinking (due to device holding your eyelids open) the entire time while a doctor cuts into your eyes with a laser. You also have to be as still as possible, or you can be seriously screwed. They constantly put drops in your eyes or put some type of stuff in your eyes so that they don't get dry.

Third, don't go cheap. This isn't the sort of operation you should cut corners on and shop around for the cheapest. My friend shopped around for the 2nd best eye doctor around. Why 2nd best? He has less clients, so my friend felt like he got more attention and not just another number. He went to the top 5 in the area though and talked with each one. Do your research and your homework.

After lasik, the healing was super easy and fast. I think he just had to spend 3 days at home away from work, and you can't swim for a few months after the operation. You'll want to be careful with rain (always have an umbrella) and to obviously avoid a dessert or a dust storm or something like that. After a few months though, you don't need to worry about that anymore.

He had a very successful operation and loves it. He wakes up in the morning and just sees, something he hasn't been able to do since a child, and he's a lot happier after it.

On the flip side, I'll never do it. I don't wish to take the chance of surgery on my eyes. I really don't mind contact lenses and glasses. It doesn't bother me in the slightest. Also, some days I will wear glasses instead of contact lenses, and it just gives me a different fashionable look. You can do the same thing with non-prescription glasses, but then people are always like, "Why are you wearing glasses if you don't have bad vision? Wtf?"

His vision is actually better than 20/20 now. I think it's 20/17 and hasn't had any problems.

EDIT: I also wanted to mention that it's not guaranteed to be permanent. On average, people's vision begins to change again every 7 years. In 7 years, he may have dropped back down to 20/20 or even 19/20. After a decade or two, he may have to get the operation again. However, everyone is different and everyone ages differently. Some people have permanent perfect vision for the rest of their lives.

Very interesting.

Yeah the factor of "taking a risk" is what scares me too.
I can't wear contacts too often though as I have a bit of "red eyes shot" reaction when I use them too long, I think it's due to dry eyes, which also makes the operation less likely to be very good I think (and partly because when I started with them I abused it I'm afraid).

In Germany health care is at high level, so I don't think it would really make much a difference here if you pay top dollars for a doc or if you just look for the hospital with a doc with the most experience.

Yes, the permanent part is also true, on the other hand though if you start regressing a bit you will start low with 0.25 or something and that wouldn't be the end of the world (might also be a welcoming back of the chance of wearing glasses when you feel like as you say).

 

[Franco]

Moved this to the "Off Topic" board.

 

[Nova]

my long distant eyesight isn't the best, i probably should wear glasses but really don't like them. i haven't read any posts on this thread, but who knows anything about the dangers of lasik? it would be a fucking nightmare to splash all that cash per eye and then go blind, real waste of money

 

[lux7]

my long distant eyesight isn't the best, i probably should wear glasses but really don't like them. i haven't read any posts on this thread, but who knows anything about the dangers of lasik? it would be a fucking nightmare to splash all that cash per eye and then go blind, real waste of money

Yeah, that's what you'd definitely worry about once blind: the 3K you spent on it

 

[Thedoctor]

As with any surgical procedure or medication, there is always the risk of complications and side effects, however small the risk may be. I know several people that have had the procedure. All were extremely happy with it, except for one guy I know. He says he sometimes has issues with his tear ducts. Some mornings they just go crazy and it's basically like he's crying (No, hes not an overly emotional dude either, so that's not it ).

I also heard of some instances where the tear ducts somehow get damaged and the person loses the ability to naturally lubricate their eyes. I never really looked into the legitimacy of these claims, but true or not, it would represent an extremely small number of people that have had the procedure.

But yeah, you need to decide if the rewards outweigh the potential risks.

-John.

 

[lux7]

I researched a bit more, seems like dry eyes are a relatively common complaint after the surgery.

And if you have dry eyes before the surgery, your are at heightened risk.

I also read you should get checked by doctors that don't perform LASIK as those have an incentive to accept as many as possible (obviously)

 

[trashKENNUT]

lucifer7,

Just in case, IF you don't like dry eyes, Try my natural method first. I have heard reasonable amount of complains for LASIk. I assume it's because it's "perfect" that you will not be accustomed to the cleanliness of the eyes.

So your eyes will be dryer, as i have heard of. But nevertheless, it is a pair of new eyes, in a sense.

Zac

 

[lux7]

Zac, I'll definitely give it a try!
It's so mindboggling that if it will start working I'll come to believe I'm a jedi or something .


Also another option I have stumbled upon with seemingly better results than Lasik: implanting perpetual contact lenses via surgery (I might be scheduling a doctor's consultation for this one in the next weeks).
http://www.webmd.com/eye-health/feature ... eme-myopia

 

[Dern]

I know this is ridiculous but

Set few times each day looking at trees,green trees.

There's a research that said it helps. My eyes went from 250 to 125 to 150. The degrees went up because i never maintain it.

Zac

My optometrist told me this as well. She told me a success story like Zac's, where the client's eyesight actually improved!

Going from 250 ---> 125 is awesome though!

I'm going to have to ask you to clear this up a bit though. When you say "look at trees" can you just like lie in a field and daydream? Or do you actually have to concentrate hard on the trees and try to like focus on every single detail: the lines on the tree bark, how the branches twist and curve, etc?

And you say "a few times each day," so how many minutes is that per day?

And how long did you have to do this for for your eyesight to have gone from 250 ---> 125? Months? Years? Days?

I'm interested because my eyesight is 275, and even though I have contacts, I can only wear them 8 hours a day, or else my eyes will start deteriorating and getting dry. Also, you can't wear contacts if you go swimming, which sucks.

 

[Chase]

My optometrist told me this as well. She told me a success story like Zac's, where the client's eyesight actually improved!

Going from 250 ---> 125 is awesome though!

I researched this quite a bit a few years back, as my vision is pretty horrible and it'd be nice to not have to worry about popping in lenses anymore. The name for non-surgical vision correction is the Bates method, and it's attracted a lot of anecdotal support over the years, but doesn't hold up in clinical testing.

It seems that what this actually does, rather than correct vision outright, is train the brain to better interpret blurred images. It can lead to:

"improvements in interpreting blurred images, changes in mood or motivation, creation of an artificial contact lens by tear film changes, or a pinhole effect from miosis of the pupil."

So, you may see some improvements, but it isn't an actual reconditioning of the eye itself, which takes on a distorted shape in myopic patients.

There was an article in Popular Science around 10 years ago about using adaptive optics to provide an alternative to LASIK surgery that resulted in fewer side effects and better-than-20/20 vision - essentially, instead of cutting a square out of the cornea, like they do in LASIK, adaptive optics surgery would measure a few dimensions of the eye and cut a circle out of the cornea that was more custom-fitted to the eye itself instead. That'd also make it possible to widen the cut if vision grew worse again, whereas with LASIK you get one shot and that's it. However, I haven't heard anything about adaptive optics in a long time, and this was something that was supposed to be on the market in 2005 or 2006, so you'd think if it went to market and was a success it'd be all over the place now.

As for LASIK itself, if you have any interest in piloting ever, LASIK's probably not the way to go, since at higher G forces some bad stuff can happen when a chunk of your cornea is missing. On the plus side, I've had friends who've had LASIK done tell me they get "halos" around light at night, which makes nighttime driving difficult, but other than this they love that they've had it done and don't regret the surgery a bit.

Chase

 

[trashKENNUT]

Dern,

My optometrist told me this as well. She told me a success story like Zac's, where the client's eyesight actually improved!

Going from 250 ---> 125 is awesome though!

I'm going to have to ask you to clear this up a bit though. When you say "look at trees" can you just like lie in a field and daydream? Or do you actually have to concentrate hard on the trees and try to like focus on every single detail: the lines on the tree bark, how the branches twist and curve, etc?

And you say "a few times each day," so how many minutes is that per day?

And how long did you have to do this for for your eyesight to have gone from 250 ---> 125? Months? Years? Days?

I'm interested because my eyesight is 275, and even though I have contacts, I can only wear them 8 hours a day, or else my eyes will start deteriorating and getting dry. Also, you can't wear contacts if you go swimming, which sucks.

I have actually read Chase links and i also noted that they do crazy things like sunlight directly onto the eye. Don't do that.

Here's how i do it exactly.

1)Spend about ten to fifteen minutes per session for the day.

2)Find green trees for your observation. The greener the trees, the better the colour or the contrast. (Don't lie and daydream under direct sunlight. Key here is only you and the tree.)

3)Start observing the trees. Notice how your eyes is forcing onto the trees (from trying to look and also trying to get my results here!)

4)Relax your eyes now.

5)You will notice that your eyes were forcing and now it has lessen abit. Feel your eyes.

6)Observe the trees now. See what your eyes see.

7)If your eyes are forced again, go back to Step 3 and continue again.

8)Relax again, Observe the trees now. See what your eyes see.

Close your eyes for a few 20 to 30 seconds. and get back to normal life.

Notes,

What Chase noted is that a doctor said that you lying to yourself with your brain and that this will badly interpreted. I have done this myself with the optometrist and that reading board.

But here's the thing, I could not wear my specs 6 months to 1 year later, because the degrees change.


Jennifer is right, and i may not argue because she's a doctor, but the eyes is still seeing from the brain. and when you don't force your eyes and see what your eyes see, You get my results, and you just might find your specs to be irritating soon enough.

Zac

 

[lux7]

On the plus side, I've had friends who've had LASIK done tell me they get "halos" around light at night, which makes nighttime driving difficult, but other than this they love that they've had it done and don't regret the surgery a bit.
Chase

I'm researching on the topic.
Bad night vision (halo, startbusting and ghosting) is very common.
Much more common if you have larger pupils than usual, as I seem to have.

Dry eye is also quite common, another thing that worries me as I get red eyes after contact lenses (but no other dry eyes symptoms without).

I really wanna do it as i have -4.75 so my lenses are quite thick but at the same time I'm scared about dry eyes and very bad night vision (seems weird but I would gladly accept a bit of haloing if I'd be assured that was all).

I've also been to the doctor whom talked me out of ICL (implantable contacts) and says I'm a perfect candidate for LASIK but what irks me is that it feels like I'm getting a sales pitch rather than the unadulterated truth, which would would make you feel safer (good salesmen should understand when to stop selling!).

Here's our mail convo after the check up (stupid me I didn't have too many LASIK questions as I went in with the idea of doing ICL):

1. 20/20 chances
What are the chances for a subject like me to get a result of 20/20 6 months after the operation?
And what are the chances of a vision as good as eyeglasses and contacts?

99%, 99%



2. Unresolved issues
What percentage of your patients report unresolved complications six months after surgery and what are my chances of not developing any (includes objective and subjective complications such as halos, starbursts, dry eyes) ?

01%, 0.1%



3. Large pupils and dim light
As I have large pupils, what are my chances of not getting any halos or difficulties in dim light conditions?

0.1%

3. Laser or microkeratome
Will you use a laser to create the flap or a mechanical microkeratome?

Femtolaser!!! It is every so much more safe!



4. Machine and experience
What kind of machine are you using, and what's your experience with that particular one?

Wavelight Allegretto. 10 Years. Excellent.


5. Wearing contacts before check up
I was actually wearing soft contact lenses this Saturday 29.03.2014, 4 days before the check up. Is it an issue?

We need to see you 2 weeks out of Contacts before your treatment.

I forwarded this mail to the lovely person who started the website "LASIK complication", here's his/her reply:

Sales pitch.

1. Chances of 20/20 visual acuity initially are very high, probably over 95% (results tend to decline over time). Chances of visual quality as good as with glasses, probably less than 50%. Visual acuity and visual quality are not the same. See: http://lasikcomplications.com/mythof2020.htm

2. Clearly he does not count chronic dry eyes and night vision problems. Clinical trials show that roughly 20% of patients report dry eyes and night vision problems at the 6-month end point of the study. Consumer Reports conducted an independent survey of laser eye surgery patients and found similar numbers -- 22% of patients reporting problems six months after surgery. See: http://www.lasikcomplications.com/consumerreports.htm

3. If your pupils are larger than the laser optical zone, not including the blend zone, then your chances for night vision problems is 99%. Remember, LASIK surgeons don't consider debilitating night vision problems as complications -- they dismiss it as an "expected temporary side effect". So naturally he's going to say that there's no chance of a problem. Apparently many patients with minor night vision problems get used to it over time, so maybe that's why they call it "temporary". Patients with severe night vision problems are unable to adapt.
http://lasikcomplications.com/largepupils.htm

3. (You have two 3's). There are pluses and minuses to femtosecond. I have a page on that. http://www.lasikcomplications.com/IntraLase.htm

4. 10 years experience on the laser he uses? Then how can it be the "latest technology"? (I'm being sarcastic -- they talk out of both sides of their mouths). Here's the Wavelight Allegretto Patient Information Booklet. http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/cdrh_docs ... 0S004d.pdf

5. Soft lenses are not a big factor, and 2 weeks sounds about right for being out of them before the pre-op exam. (Different story for hard lenses).

6. Since you didn't ask, read Top Ten Reasons Not To Have LASIK: http://lasikcomplications.com/TopTenReasons.htm

There is no sound medical reason to risk your eyesight. If you have problems (and I believe you will have problems with dry eyes and night vision), you will have to live with profound regret for not following your instincts.

I am not a doctor.