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- Sep 21, 2016
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Hey gents. Have a candidate for a new MLTR here. Fine as HELL italian chick. Kind of a bad bitch.
There's a lot of social circle going on, preselection boosting attraction high, but attainability too low, and friends who hold her back. Good amount of background to read. If you have any advice on this one, I'm all ears!
Background
So, back in like, April 2019 my friend introduced me to this super hot Italian chick. He's been trying to hit that for years but could never get out of the friendzone. That night I end up talking pretty sexually with her and going direct early on, so that's always been her first impression of me. I could tell by the way she looked at me from the get go she's attracted.
We tried to pull the whole group that night. The group consists of her and two latinas. We're gonna call them THE TRIO. These chicks are BEST friends and are tied by the hip EVERY time I see them together. They take tons of bathroom breaks to discuss everything and isolating has ALWAYS been a problem. When we tried to get them back to my apartment (which was super conducive for fast closes, right next to all the bars) they ubered out of there before we sealed the deal. Hindsight my friend could have much better game so that hurt us... he's too much of a nice guy.
Fast forward several months and she shows up with the same guy to one of my after parties. I was pretty drunk that night and don't fully recall everything. I do remember my preselection was high as fuck at my own party and I ended up pulling her into my room, then got her on to my bed. We weren't hooking up yet but I was barely off in my window to kiss and then the other members of THE TRIO show up to get her out of there. I specifically remember if I had gone in for the kiss like 2 seconds earlier it would have at least landed a make out. I'm pretty sure like EVERY fucking decision about guys is carefully deliberated by them and so it's hard to run my fast-style of game on her. I don't remember how the rest of our interactions went that night.
Next, I see her out at a bar on her birthday - quite surrounded gain by her two friends, amongst others. That night I moved her to a seated area and had us agree to drinks, then got her number. When I got it I showed her her contact name, where it reads "some random bitch from the bar" with a heart lol. I texted her and it reads as follows:
So that's your typical "I'm busy every single night and I would love to but can't" type shit. It's the worst when you know a girl is totally attracted to you.
From all of our interactions and these sort of flirty/gamey texts that I tend to overdo sometimes... my attainability is way too low.
Fast forward to a couple months ago. I'm having my last huge party and it's a fucking banger. Sunshine is there, Piercings is there, THE TRIO is there, and a ton of other people I know are at that shit. Really fun time, and a hell of a way to end the year at the place.
So - I made the mistake of having Sunshine, Piercings, and Italy all in the same place. I never intended for that to happen, but it did. Huge break of the rule in OR's to never let those girls around eachother.
Sunshine is my OLTR at the time, Piercings is a FB I had been texting (though I hadn't seen her since February, this was July), and Italy I was working on back in March when Sunshine was still MLTR. Sunshine and Piercings used to work together, which I pretended I didn't know for a while. Piercings knows I'm aware (she told me) but Sunshine thought this particular night was the night I find out. Italy sees me flirting with Piercings, but being physical and intimate with Sunshine.
So there's a lot going on with the frames they're picking up on.
That's fucking social circle for you.
The more socially intelligent member of THE TRIO, that crafty bitch, knows that I want to bang Italy. Somewhere, she must also want that to happen, or else I don't know why she would go and do this. She goes up to Sunshine and tells her that I'm hooking up with one of her friends - and as far as I know she doesn't know I had a thing with Piercings (in this case, she meant Italy, who told me this weekend that the same girl told her that Sunshine was my girlfriend that night).
So that chick deliberately told Sunshine that I was banging Italy, who I hadn't hooked up with, to... idk - hopefully break us up? Or maybe she's just a sadist, I don't know lol. It would make sense she did so to open up my availability, since she more or less seems on board with me fucking Italy from what I can tell. She smiled at "us" when I was with her this weekend, and acts pretty friendly towards me.
So that night Sunshine comes up to me and tells me that a latina girl just told her I'm also banging / have banged another girl at the party. Knowing all three relationships going on at the party, I basically take an L with Piercings and say it must be her. I explain we haven't been together in a long period of time, because what actually did happen was I stopped fucking Piercings after my first lay with Sunshine. Sunshine blew her out of the water. We had way better chemistry, she was better in bed, and she was all around more positive & fun to be around. So I chose to play that frame.
In reality, Sunshine was talking about Italy, and confronted me on it. This was a big enough distraction to her, and I sold it well enough, that she believed it was an honest mistake. Weeks later she told me that it was actually another girl the latina was referring to and I just said I didn't know what she was talking about, I haven't hooked up with any other girls at that party - which was true.
It's best not to lie to women, or bend the truth. It's best to not have to lie at all, and I try my hardest not to do it. When you HAVE to lie, you damn well better sell it. A good way to sell it is to use another truth to silence that other information, since you can be that much more confident about the information you're putting out there.
Anyway, that's mostly water under the bridge now, as far as my frames with Sunshine go.
We good in the hood for now.
I downgraded her to MLTR because she left the state
(also, I'm enjoying the simple feeling of being single again way less real estate in my head about one girl)
After Hours Rave
Fast forward to this weekend.
I show up to this rave afterparty at around 1:00 AM. Good times, good conversations, great djs. Soon enough, THE TRIO shows up. My one buddy, Jim Morrison, is banging the emotionally intelligent one, Crafty Hoe. I go straight up to Italy and start talking to her. Things go well.
I notice for the first time, that she has a hard time giving me eye contact because she gets too anxious looking directly into my eyes. I have blue eyes and for some people it's too intense.
We talk for a little while, then right before she's gonna tell me a story, I cut her off and say to continue it outside. We sit in chairs outside and talk and I break the touch barrier. We had alone time for all of two minutes before Crafty Hoe shows up. I play it cool and extend the conversation to her. Then we get in the mix with a bunch of the other partiers and it gets a little convoluted conversationally.
My buddy who DJ's comes out and I can tell Italy is also attracted to him. Italy is a fine ass girl so he's obviously down for whatever lol.
I had to keep the attention a little bit in my direction without clogging up everyones social drains to "compete" but mainly I just play it cool. He's more Alpha and I'm more Sigma so it would be an uphill battle anyways.
For about 3-4 hours we go back and forth of talking, dancing, drinking, and whatever. Many bathroom breaks between THE TRIO.
Deep Dive
At one point, I get her on the couch and start deep diving her. We have some fun conversations about what sex is like on MDMA, or even kissing on MDMA. She's apparently on that & some blow so her anxiety is a little high. I have my arm around her and our legs are touching. I ask her about the eye contact thing, cold read her, and she tells me I'm on the nail... if my eyes were brown it wouldn't be as big of a problem for her.
I do what I can to have her look at me in the eyes (girls usually get turned on when I'm gaming them because of how I stare at them) but she's struggling, despite her being compliant with touch otherwise.
When she gets a little more comfortable, I bring up how we never got that drink, "weren't we supposed to grab drinks a while back? "
She says yes and then tells me she was told I have a girlfriend, and explains Crafty Hoe telling her about it. She describes her physical features and clearly knows it was Sunshine. I explain that while there was a girl I had feelings for, it was agreed in the beginning we were keeping it open because she was leaving - I essentially deny she was ever my girlfriend. I add on that I'm surprised she heard that, because I hate how much people try to showboat people like they're "theirs" and I think that what's going on between two people should stay between those to people - that's where the value is an any sort of relationship anyways (discretion frame). She throws in that she was cheated on by her last boyfriend, and I say "I'm very sorry to hear that."
She says "I like what you're saying.... [changes subject to a painting in the room]". That could have been her ASD kicking it, or Female State Control. I know I'm having a huge positive effect on her and she probably doesn't like losing "control" over her emotions, so she changes the subject. Or she's on drugs and thoughts simply come intrusively. At one point she mentioned her mind was kinda racing because of the blow, and she wishes she didn't mix the uppers.
A bit later she does tell me that she actually likes me quite a bit, and is enjoying talking with me.
Getting Late
The party continues and we all dance. I'm getting extremely tired but I'm not satisfied where I left things. I like this girl quite a bit actually. She's stunning, she carries herself with confidence, is very independent, has great taste in music, and a good sense of humor. I wish she was aware I genuinely felt that way, but because of my attainability woes, it's likely hitting her ears with a "player" filter on :/
We all move to another after party. On the way Jim Morrison calls me weird (which, like, wtf dude lol) but I just say "and I wouldn't have it any other way, Jim " which fends off the attack and just makes me look more confident. I'm not gaining much traction at the new place though, and I sort of socialize away from the girls at this point. I do make a point to sit down next to Italy once more. The girls all want to go back now (lol, women) to the original rave. I'm fine with this so we do. On the way back we walk with our arms locked. She's warming up to the idea of being with me.
We come in pretty hot and dance our asses off for a little bit. I actually show off some of the hips here lol. I'm competing with that DJ still, who now that everyone has cleared out is taking more of an interest in Italy. I'm not doing a dance off so, I sit in a chair seated that's seated the rave room, and wave her over to sit down. Way more low effort hahaha.
Cold Read
She happily complies. This time I get my hand on her ass. I can tell from her body language she's really liking it, and then she looks directly at me with a turned on smile. I reengage her with some deep dive (I actually don't remember what I said because I was a little fucked up and tired this late into the night), and end up finding the conversation about how she's just anxious about going on a date with me. I cold read the fucking shit out of her, and then ask her, "so all these thoughts you have and what ifs going on in your head.... all these things that could happen on the date... what if we go and you're just as comfortable as you feel with me right now?" and she slowly agrees.
Escalation Window?
This, may have been an escalation window. I could probably have landed a makeout - and I think I should have, in hindsight. Getting a really high emotional rev might have done a lot for me as far as her investment goes. That said THE TRIO is still there and I believed it VERY difficult to get her away. In the beginning of the deep dive about the date, I framed it as "I know you're glued by the hip with your friends tonight, though I'd like to have a time with just us" to counteract this "miss".
She brings up how she doesn't get off work until like 10. Which to me, is a bullshit excuse lol. I've had dates that start at midnight, and we're at a rave at 6 AM for fucks sake. I tell her exactly what we'll do, why that doesn't matter, and how we'll do it. Fuck the curfew lol. She agrees, slowly. Fairly high resistance. I think her thoughts and anxieties were racing.
15 minutes or so after this I call my uber. I'm fucking exhausted. At the very end, I say my goodbyes, and then go up to her and tell her to walk me out. Fucking Crafty Hoe follows us out once she agrees. I talk a little bit more with her on the stoop, and I land a kiss before I left. The kiss was alright, could have been better.
Flaky Texts
The next day I text her, and meet almost the same shit as before,
Conclusion
Back to square one!
Part of me says I had to go for the pull home then and there, it just would have been tough with the resistance I was getting. I also had work at 11:30 AM, and left the party at 6:30 AM. I need sleep, yo lol.
Gonna text her on Thursday (if she doesn't text me Wednesday) something low effort, "any update on that schedule?".
If she sucks still with compliance, I will try a phone call next week.
If she sucks after that, I will probably ball-in-park text her.
I KNOW she likes me. She told me during the deep dive, and she said to her friend in passing, "I don't care if he's hot as fuck!!".
My issue is totally attainability.
Open to any forms of texting / calling I can do to try and wrangle that shit in. Maybe it's just non needy persistence?
Hue
EDIT: Rereading this, I probably should have just gone for the makeout, invited her home, and pushed through the resistance. "You've got work all of this next week, we don't know when the next time we get to connect like this will be!"
There's a lot of social circle going on, preselection boosting attraction high, but attainability too low, and friends who hold her back. Good amount of background to read. If you have any advice on this one, I'm all ears!
Background
So, back in like, April 2019 my friend introduced me to this super hot Italian chick. He's been trying to hit that for years but could never get out of the friendzone. That night I end up talking pretty sexually with her and going direct early on, so that's always been her first impression of me. I could tell by the way she looked at me from the get go she's attracted.
We tried to pull the whole group that night. The group consists of her and two latinas. We're gonna call them THE TRIO. These chicks are BEST friends and are tied by the hip EVERY time I see them together. They take tons of bathroom breaks to discuss everything and isolating has ALWAYS been a problem. When we tried to get them back to my apartment (which was super conducive for fast closes, right next to all the bars) they ubered out of there before we sealed the deal. Hindsight my friend could have much better game so that hurt us... he's too much of a nice guy.
Fast forward several months and she shows up with the same guy to one of my after parties. I was pretty drunk that night and don't fully recall everything. I do remember my preselection was high as fuck at my own party and I ended up pulling her into my room, then got her on to my bed. We weren't hooking up yet but I was barely off in my window to kiss and then the other members of THE TRIO show up to get her out of there. I specifically remember if I had gone in for the kiss like 2 seconds earlier it would have at least landed a make out. I'm pretty sure like EVERY fucking decision about guys is carefully deliberated by them and so it's hard to run my fast-style of game on her. I don't remember how the rest of our interactions went that night.
Next, I see her out at a bar on her birthday - quite surrounded gain by her two friends, amongst others. That night I moved her to a seated area and had us agree to drinks, then got her number. When I got it I showed her her contact name, where it reads "some random bitch from the bar" with a heart lol. I texted her and it reads as follows:
Me: hey this is Hue. some random girl gave me her number at the bar last night.. [girl] I think. does that ring any bells for you?
Her: Oh hey yeah that sounds kinda familiar lol
Me: haha I thought it might (smirk emoji) how was the rest of your birthday evening? any highlights or just business as usual ;P
Her: it was good just hungout at [bar] then came home lol how was the rest of your night?
Me: kicked off the after-party when I left.. it got a little wild actually lol. soooomeoooone should have joined the fun
Her: Lol I didn't know about it!
Me: it's okay you probably couldn't have handled it
Her: Lol hey I stayed up drinking with you until like 5 am that one night
Me: rare form, darling, rare form
Me: you doing anything Wednesday night? I'd love to grab a drink over [theme] at [bar]
Her: I'm training at a new job right now so I work literally every single day the next couple weeks :/ I was lucky to have today off
Me: bummer! no worries.. maybe some other time
Her: Yes some other time!
So that's your typical "I'm busy every single night and I would love to but can't" type shit. It's the worst when you know a girl is totally attracted to you.
From all of our interactions and these sort of flirty/gamey texts that I tend to overdo sometimes... my attainability is way too low.
Fast forward to a couple months ago. I'm having my last huge party and it's a fucking banger. Sunshine is there, Piercings is there, THE TRIO is there, and a ton of other people I know are at that shit. Really fun time, and a hell of a way to end the year at the place.
So - I made the mistake of having Sunshine, Piercings, and Italy all in the same place. I never intended for that to happen, but it did. Huge break of the rule in OR's to never let those girls around eachother.
Sunshine is my OLTR at the time, Piercings is a FB I had been texting (though I hadn't seen her since February, this was July), and Italy I was working on back in March when Sunshine was still MLTR. Sunshine and Piercings used to work together, which I pretended I didn't know for a while. Piercings knows I'm aware (she told me) but Sunshine thought this particular night was the night I find out. Italy sees me flirting with Piercings, but being physical and intimate with Sunshine.
So there's a lot going on with the frames they're picking up on.
That's fucking social circle for you.
The more socially intelligent member of THE TRIO, that crafty bitch, knows that I want to bang Italy. Somewhere, she must also want that to happen, or else I don't know why she would go and do this. She goes up to Sunshine and tells her that I'm hooking up with one of her friends - and as far as I know she doesn't know I had a thing with Piercings (in this case, she meant Italy, who told me this weekend that the same girl told her that Sunshine was my girlfriend that night).
So that chick deliberately told Sunshine that I was banging Italy, who I hadn't hooked up with, to... idk - hopefully break us up? Or maybe she's just a sadist, I don't know lol. It would make sense she did so to open up my availability, since she more or less seems on board with me fucking Italy from what I can tell. She smiled at "us" when I was with her this weekend, and acts pretty friendly towards me.
So that night Sunshine comes up to me and tells me that a latina girl just told her I'm also banging / have banged another girl at the party. Knowing all three relationships going on at the party, I basically take an L with Piercings and say it must be her. I explain we haven't been together in a long period of time, because what actually did happen was I stopped fucking Piercings after my first lay with Sunshine. Sunshine blew her out of the water. We had way better chemistry, she was better in bed, and she was all around more positive & fun to be around. So I chose to play that frame.
In reality, Sunshine was talking about Italy, and confronted me on it. This was a big enough distraction to her, and I sold it well enough, that she believed it was an honest mistake. Weeks later she told me that it was actually another girl the latina was referring to and I just said I didn't know what she was talking about, I haven't hooked up with any other girls at that party - which was true.
It's best not to lie to women, or bend the truth. It's best to not have to lie at all, and I try my hardest not to do it. When you HAVE to lie, you damn well better sell it. A good way to sell it is to use another truth to silence that other information, since you can be that much more confident about the information you're putting out there.
Anyway, that's mostly water under the bridge now, as far as my frames with Sunshine go.
We good in the hood for now.
I downgraded her to MLTR because she left the state
(also, I'm enjoying the simple feeling of being single again
way less real estate in my head about one girl)After Hours Rave
Fast forward to this weekend.
I show up to this rave afterparty at around 1:00 AM. Good times, good conversations, great djs. Soon enough, THE TRIO shows up. My one buddy, Jim Morrison, is banging the emotionally intelligent one, Crafty Hoe. I go straight up to Italy and start talking to her. Things go well.
I notice for the first time, that she has a hard time giving me eye contact because she gets too anxious looking directly into my eyes. I have blue eyes and for some people it's too intense.
We talk for a little while, then right before she's gonna tell me a story, I cut her off and say to continue it outside. We sit in chairs outside and talk and I break the touch barrier. We had alone time for all of two minutes before Crafty Hoe shows up. I play it cool and extend the conversation to her. Then we get in the mix with a bunch of the other partiers and it gets a little convoluted conversationally.
My buddy who DJ's comes out and I can tell Italy is also attracted to him. Italy is a fine ass girl so he's obviously down for whatever lol.
I had to keep the attention a little bit in my direction without clogging up everyones social drains to "compete" but mainly I just play it cool. He's more Alpha and I'm more Sigma so it would be an uphill battle anyways.
For about 3-4 hours we go back and forth of talking, dancing, drinking, and whatever. Many bathroom breaks between THE TRIO.
Deep Dive
At one point, I get her on the couch and start deep diving her. We have some fun conversations about what sex is like on MDMA, or even kissing on MDMA. She's apparently on that & some blow so her anxiety is a little high. I have my arm around her and our legs are touching. I ask her about the eye contact thing, cold read her, and she tells me I'm on the nail... if my eyes were brown it wouldn't be as big of a problem for her.
I do what I can to have her look at me in the eyes (girls usually get turned on when I'm gaming them because of how I stare at them) but she's struggling, despite her being compliant with touch otherwise.
When she gets a little more comfortable, I bring up how we never got that drink, "weren't we supposed to grab drinks a while back?
"She says yes and then tells me she was told I have a girlfriend, and explains Crafty Hoe telling her about it. She describes her physical features and clearly knows it was Sunshine. I explain that while there was a girl I had feelings for, it was agreed in the beginning we were keeping it open because she was leaving - I essentially deny she was ever my girlfriend. I add on that I'm surprised she heard that, because I hate how much people try to showboat people like they're "theirs" and I think that what's going on between two people should stay between those to people - that's where the value is an any sort of relationship anyways (discretion frame). She throws in that she was cheated on by her last boyfriend, and I say "I'm very sorry to hear that."
She says "I like what you're saying.... [changes subject to a painting in the room]". That could have been her ASD kicking it, or Female State Control. I know I'm having a huge positive effect on her and she probably doesn't like losing "control" over her emotions, so she changes the subject. Or she's on drugs and thoughts simply come intrusively. At one point she mentioned her mind was kinda racing because of the blow, and she wishes she didn't mix the uppers.
A bit later she does tell me that she actually likes me quite a bit, and is enjoying talking with me.
Getting Late
The party continues and we all dance. I'm getting extremely tired but I'm not satisfied where I left things. I like this girl quite a bit actually. She's stunning, she carries herself with confidence, is very independent, has great taste in music, and a good sense of humor. I wish she was aware I genuinely felt that way, but because of my attainability woes, it's likely hitting her ears with a "player" filter on :/
We all move to another after party. On the way Jim Morrison calls me weird (which, like, wtf dude lol) but I just say "and I wouldn't have it any other way, Jim
" which fends off the attack and just makes me look more confident. I'm not gaining much traction at the new place though, and I sort of socialize away from the girls at this point. I do make a point to sit down next to Italy once more. The girls all want to go back now (lol, women) to the original rave. I'm fine with this so we do. On the way back we walk with our arms locked. She's warming up to the idea of being with me.We come in pretty hot and dance our asses off for a little bit. I actually show off some of the hips here lol. I'm competing with that DJ still, who now that everyone has cleared out is taking more of an interest in Italy. I'm not doing a dance off so, I sit in a chair seated that's seated the rave room, and wave her over to sit down. Way more low effort hahaha.
Cold Read
She happily complies. This time I get my hand on her ass. I can tell from her body language she's really liking it, and then she looks directly at me with a turned on smile. I reengage her with some deep dive (I actually don't remember what I said because I was a little fucked up and tired this late into the night), and end up finding the conversation about how she's just anxious about going on a date with me. I cold read the fucking shit out of her, and then ask her, "so all these thoughts you have and what ifs going on in your head.... all these things that could happen on the date... what if we go and you're just as comfortable as you feel with me right now?" and she slowly agrees.
Escalation Window?
This, may have been an escalation window. I could probably have landed a makeout - and I think I should have, in hindsight. Getting a really high emotional rev might have done a lot for me as far as her investment goes. That said THE TRIO is still there and I believed it VERY difficult to get her away. In the beginning of the deep dive about the date, I framed it as "I know you're glued by the hip with your friends tonight, though I'd like to have a time with just us" to counteract this "miss".
She brings up how she doesn't get off work until like 10. Which to me, is a bullshit excuse lol. I've had dates that start at midnight, and we're at a rave at 6 AM for fucks sake. I tell her exactly what we'll do, why that doesn't matter, and how we'll do it. Fuck the curfew lol. She agrees, slowly. Fairly high resistance. I think her thoughts and anxieties were racing.
15 minutes or so after this I call my uber. I'm fucking exhausted. At the very end, I say my goodbyes, and then go up to her and tell her to walk me out. Fucking Crafty Hoe follows us out once she agrees. I talk a little bit more with her on the stoop, and I land a kiss before I left. The kiss was alright, could have been better.
Flaky Texts
The next day I text her, and meet almost the same shit as before,
Me: Italy that was fun last night... looking forward to this Wednesday
Her: Hi!! We might have to reschedule for a day I don't work because I won't be home until like 10 :/
Me: no biggie! what days are non-working days for you?
next day
Her: This week probably isn't the best. I don't have my schedule next week but I'm usually off on Tuesdays
Me: my schedule is harder to predict with [job] & [job] until the week of usually. when do you typically know by?
Her: I'll probably know Wednesday!
Me: (a-okay emoji)
Conclusion
Back to square one!
Part of me says I had to go for the pull home then and there, it just would have been tough with the resistance I was getting. I also had work at 11:30 AM, and left the party at 6:30 AM. I need sleep, yo lol.
Gonna text her on Thursday (if she doesn't text me Wednesday) something low effort, "any update on that schedule?".
If she sucks still with compliance, I will try a phone call next week.
If she sucks after that, I will probably ball-in-park text her.
I KNOW she likes me. She told me during the deep dive, and she said to her friend in passing, "I don't care if he's hot as fuck!!".
My issue is totally attainability.
Open to any forms of texting / calling I can do to try and wrangle that shit in. Maybe it's just non needy persistence?
Hue
EDIT: Rereading this, I probably should have just gone for the makeout, invited her home, and pushed through the resistance. "You've got work all of this next week, we don't know when the next time we get to connect like this will be!"
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