Interesting post,
@Skills.
There are always going to be divas in every public-facing role that offers (or appears to offer) status. Music, movies, sports, politics, public speaking, etc. "Seduction guru" is certainly no exception. There are a lot of people who are extremely hungry for adulation, and these types tend to be drawn toward roles they think they can get that.
I will say in the case of Drake, that really seems like "what goes around, comes around." There's a dude who reaped what he sowed.
Seduction community is the same, you got guys that take guys under your wing, you teach them everything.... You put people on the map or get them laid, then they either betray you, claim their shit you taught them when they could not get laid in a whore house theirs, slander you, align with people that were once that people who were their enemies and same shit! repeats itself.... First time i saw that was in the book the "game" when rsd back stabbed mystery.... But i seen it in the community over and over and over.....
Yeah, defo true... but I will also say this: if you have a decent radar you can generally sense which ones are the most likely to turn on you. Then, if not totally keep away from them, you can take steps to try and minimize how close you let them get... to minimize any potential fallout.
A lot of guys come and go in seduction who are just pretty cool dudes and not the backstabby types. But these guys generally won't hang around and become big time gurus. They join for a few years, post a bunch of lays, help out some new guys, then disappear. Among the guys who hang around a long time, and get active enough and contribute enough to carve out names for themselves, there's a much higher risk of those being guys who are in it for adulation. The adulation-seeker types are the guys who will status jockey, backstab, etc.
I was caught up in a business relationship with an adulation-seeker type years and years ago. The guy seemed like this haughty, high value, impressive guy to all but the people closest to him, and always had this aura of being a Very Important Person. But once you got close to him he would be alternating between talking about his visions of grandeur or else begging and pleading (or sometimes demanding and threatening) with you to support him, give a bunch of money to him, praise him, tell other people how great he was in all these different ways he wanted to be seen as great in, etc. Ultimately he'd burn through friendships and relationships with other people because being around the guy was just completely exhausting.
This space definitely attracts guys like that. I don't know what percent of "gurus" are that type... it's not a majority, but it's not small. Might be like 10-20%. But these guys stir up all kinds of drama and have huge falling outs with people when they do. I have met hundreds of dudes from seduction and interacted with thousands more, and of all these guys, I have had falling outs with four. All four of those guys had NUMEROUS falling outs with other people (i.e., it was a pattern of
those guys). Everybody else has been chill.
Tyler from RSD was clearly that type; he was one of 'those guys'. He took Mystery's material and repackaged it as his own. Then after natural game got big, thanks to theApproach, Tyler came in once again and rebranded RSD as "natural game" and taught basically a lot of the same crap he was teaching before, all while calling it "natural game", which totally ran the theApproach style natural game (which was EXCELLENT and nothing at all like RSD) out of the picture because Tyler was a much more aggressive marketer.
Years later when GC was pretty new but gaining popularity fast, I had a guy email me to tell me he'd met Tyler in a nightclub and spent 30 minutes or an hour talking his ear off telling him all this stuff from GC... deep diving, chase framing, Law of Least Effort, etc. He was like "Tyler was interested and impressed. I told him I'd set up a meeting with you two and he was down."
I was like FUCK THAT! Fuck outta here with that... I was tempted by "Ooh, maybe knowing Tyler could somehow boost this small operation I've got going here" for like 0.3 seconds before deciding it would be a supremely bad idea. I knew how that guy operated. One of the guys I was coaching was a cameraman for RSD who'd also get pulled into assistant coaching. He went out many, many nights with Tyler. He told me, "Dude, if you talk to Tyler about your game, Tyler will just take your ideas, rename them, market the crap out of them, and everyone will think YOU'RE the knockoff."
It seems to me like this handful of adulation-seeker types play an outsize role in community drama and community splits.
They are also exhausting for all the more normal guys, who just want to pick up chicks and have chill conversations with likeminded folks, to need to deal with.
Well, now what do we have? Pretty much, no community oh well....
The thing I would say here is I do not think the much quieter seduction community these days is due to Seduction Divas.
There were divas from the very start. They've been here the whole ride. During the best years for the online seduction community, we had a whole bunch of gurus with competing schools and all kinds of heated drama between them, and people loved it. People are ENGAGED when there's all this rivalry... it's like a team sport!
Hollywood has had this problem since its inception. The music industry too. Sports too. The divas don't kill it off.
Divas come, and divas go, but things continue so long as there's demand for them.
IMO the far more quieter seduction community nowadays is due to:
- The decline of the broader Internet, as people retreat into censorious walled gardens like Facebook. There's much more resistance to joining new communities that aren't already a part of some Mega Corp walled garden app already. "Oh, pickup? On the WEB? Don't they have a group for that on like Telegram or something? I don't want to join some forum or something... there must be an app or something, or some group on Facebook about it, or a subreddit on Reddit!"
- The decline of writing as bandwidth has taken off and everyone has moved over to video... video is not really conducive to growing a seduction community in general; there are lots of problems with it. First off, as soon as video is an option, guys want you to post video "showing results" to be more credible... well, there are a lot of folks who don't WANT their faces, the faces of the chicks they are picking up or dating, and their entire lives on display... so you end up screening for these "everything on display" adulation-seeking status-jockeying types far more... like the Instagram bro type of guy... Second is video does not enable dialogues: dude posts a video, people comment, that's it. Very different mode from forums. Community is sort of impossible when you're doing it via video. Third is video is not searchable, browsable, skimmable, etc. the way forums are. Which might seem minor, but it is HUGE. You can go through tons of different guys' stuff on a forum in a relatively short amount of time until you find one you engage in. Try doing that with video and there goes your week. So except for the guys who are watching 50 hours of YouTube every week, most folks just pick someone to follow pretty fast and stick with just that.
- The general rise in apathy toward dating. Red pill / black pill are a symptom of this (not a cause). Men and women alike have become increasingly apathetic about dating, but it appears to be worse among men.
- The social skills decline... people just don't know how to have dialogues anymore; they are less excited about comparing notes with everyone; more of them are know-it-alls who think they don't need help or "are mostly already pretty good, I just need to know this one thing then I'll be set."
- I think the general sentiment in the West as well. There is this unsettling 'end times' apocalyptic air hanging around and people are no longer carefree the way they were in the 1990s and 2000-naughts, when they were happy to just talk about PUA and think about picking up girls and so on. People are angry and depressed and worried now. Terrible state to pick up girls in. The number of men who are chilled out, carefree, having a great time, focused on girls, is just a lot less.
Maybe a few other factors too (for the record, "girls are so entitled due to Instagram!" is not one of them, lol. You can approach an "entitled Instagram girl" in real life and it goes the same as any approach. But all these guys trying to meet girls THROUGH Instagram without having ironclad Instagram profiles and game are largely doing it as a result of... apathy toward dating. "Shit, talk to a girl in real life? No way man, not worth it! Just find me a way to slide into her DMs! ... crap, none of these chicks are responding. They've been ruined by thirsty men! It's all over now!"
You just wanna be like "Dude... go out in the sun and talk to girls. IN-PERSON." But these guys are like "Never!" like they're vampires or something that burn up in the light
).
But I don't think we can pin that one on the divas.
If anything, the divas drive up engagement, because everyone wants to get on and pick sides with his preferred guru and throw rocks at the gurus on the other side... lol.
Anyway... that is MY take!
Chase
