Looking for direction.

[Account3275]

Ok, so I'm not one to get on forums much but you guys seem to have a lot of experience...so i'm gonna give it chance. Here goes....I like this girl that i work with, she acted like she liked me, she always asked me to go to lunch with her or take a ride with her and she recently asked for me to go on an overnight business trip with her. On the business trip we basically just chilled in her room the whole time and she invited me to sleep in the spare bed even though i had my own room, nothing physically happened though(i didn't get the sense she wanted me to try anything). I sort of hinted strongly to her that i'd like to spend more time with her and ever since then she's started to ignore me and act like she's mad at me. To make things more confusing I found that she had saved every note i had ever written her and taped them inside her top desk drawer (they're still there, even the one i wrote her telling her I missed her after she started acting this way). Also...she's married. What i really want to know is...Why would she do all that and then ignore me and act mad as if i had done something to her when I told her I wanted to see her more? It's just very confusing and frustrating for me because I like her so much, even just as a friend I want this woman in my life. So, What's going on and what should I do about it?

 

[Hector Papi Castillo]

Ok, so I'm not one to get on forums much but you guys seem to have a lot of experience...so i'm gonna give it chance. Here goes....I like this girl that i work with, she acted like she liked me, she always asked me to go to lunch with her or take a ride with her and she recently asked for me to go on an overnight business trip with her. On the business trip we basically just chilled in her room the whole time and she invited me to sleep in the spare bed even though i had my own room, nothing physically happened though(i didn't get the sense she wanted me to try anything). I sort of hinted strongly to her that i'd like to spend more time with her and ever since then she's started to ignore me and act like she's mad at me.

She wanted sex.

You didn't give it to her.

She feels ignored, misunderstood, and rejected.

If a girl invites you on a business trip and asks you to sleep in the same room as her, she might as well be holding a sign up saying "enter my pussy now."

But now you know that a girl, whom I assume you find attractive, is willing to go that far to sleep with you, even though she's married.

- Anatman

 

[Sophisticated Gent]

Radeng and anatman you guys have given conflicting answers to a newbie. Let me try to clear it up. She wanted you bad. But she reached her slut point that she wouldn't pass. See Account3275 one of a woman's biggest fears is being though of as a slut. She did all of this to get you alone but she wouldn't initiate sex because she didn't want you to think of her as a slut. Then you rejected her by not initiating sex. Can you imagine how pissed she is at you? You have now moved into the friend zone. There is nothing confusing about the notes. She saw you as her lover. She prized them.

Sorry Radeng I have to go with Anatman on this one. When you work with someone and one or both of you is married thing move much slower. It took her a long time to create a situation where she felt safe she wouldn't screw up her marriage and/or job.

BDSC

 

[Account3275]

To help clear things up I'm going to provide you guys with some more detail. She didn't start ignoring men or acting upset until after I indicated I wanted to spend more time together. Several positions opened up at work one of which was in her department, I told her that i was thinking of taking the job so I could see her. The week or so after the trip she seemed fine to me. When she started ignoring me and i reached out to her and she sent me a text stating that we were just coworkers and she was happily married and that I shouldn't come work in her department just to be closer to her. She then asked if I had made up my mind about what position to take and stated that as long as i understood we were just coworkers that I could come work in her department. So, I just feel like she's kind of sending me mixed signals and since she's a married woman I wanted to be absolutely sure of how to proceed and that's why i'm here. So maybe that will give you guys a little more context. I mean am I crazy...does this girl like me, and if she does why would she not want me to spend more time with her? It's like all these feelings are unsaid and the minute I say something she acts like I crossed a line. I'm so confused. Anyway, I look forward to hearing you guys opinions.

 

[Sophisticated Gent]

I may sound wishy washy here but based on the new information I have to change to agree with Radeng. It looks like you are what we call an Orbiter. She likes to have you around as a friend to validate that she is attractive. She will flirt with you because it makes her feel good but she won't sleep with you. Sorry with either assessment she is not going to have you as a lover. At this point regarding lovers you need to be looking for new ones. We call this Nexting. You can keep her as a friend if you are ok emotionally with this. Otherwise you can just be nice as you pass at work. If you are interested in finding new women as lovers and/or long term relationships read the articles in here. Also Chase has a book that is reasonably price that goes through the whole process. When you decide you want to begin there is a article on how to do the approaching. See the link that follows.

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=34

Good luck

BDSC

 

[Account3275]

I can see that i guess. The things that always made me think she was in to me was saving the notes the most intimate and serious of which i wrote her after the trip and the last one after i told her i wanted to see her more, she saved and taped up and i guess that kind of encouraged me. Also, she heard that i had been involved with another coworker and as soon as she got back from training and heard about it she called me and asked about it and then brought it up at least 2 other times afterwords as if she was jealous. The other thing is that she was always the intiater of everything, for all intents and purposes she was organizing us spending time together a,d that made me feel like she liked me and wanted to spend time together. She also was the one who just wanted to hangout during the trip and not do any work stuff. However, if we are going to go with the theory that she feels like i somehow betrayed her trust by having romantic feelings for her, how do i make that right? I still want to hang out with her and i'm fine with us just being friends. So, do i just give it sone time to let things cool off or should i say something to her sooner? I genuinely like the girl and enjoy hanging out with her, so it would be sad if i lost her as friend.

 

[Sophisticated Gent]

You are going to be in this dilemma with her because she likes you and would sleep with you if she wasn't married. She is apparently not willing to fool around on her husband. As long as you hang with her she is going to flirt with you and make you feel wanted. If you are going to be her friend then you will just have to live with this. Or you could have a talk with her and tell her that if she wants your relationship to be platonic then she will have to respect your feeling and not flirt with you. You will have to do this gently or it could back fire. I imagine the conversation going as such.

"(her name) I really value our friendship and the time we spend together. I respect your marriage and because of this I have decided to keep our relationship on the friends only level."

BDSC

 

[Account3275]

Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions, you guys helped clear up a lot of my confusion. I do have one final follow up question though. I'm sure you guys have way more experience with woman than i do and i guess i'd like you guys to offer an explanation of her behavior. Why would she do all these things that indicate that she likes me and then act insulted once i finally reciprocated? Anyway, i appreciate you guys advice and hopefully i can use all this as a learning experience.

 

[Account3275]

OK, I have an Update to this saga and I felt i should post it here to provide context for anyone reading. A few days after my last post this girl calls me up out of the blue(she makes some excuse for the call, like she needed to know an address or something) she acts like nothing ever happened and wants to talk for a good 30 minutes. During the conversation she even(subtlety mind you) invites me to come help her at her office(we do the same thing but work at different offices). Things go fine and I don't hear from her for a while, then I notices a marked increase in the number of calls from her. Things start to change more in December as she starts insisting i go to more work functions with her and come help her at work and she starts calling me...A lot. Some days(not always work days) we would talk on the phone for hours and the conversations would be trivial, with little real substance(as if she just wanted to have contact with me). Needless to say I liked the attention. However, a couple of weeks ago she had to come to work on her day off to cover for me as I was out. I explained to her the situation and she was ordered to cover for me by our boss. She seemed very upset by this and was giving me the cold shoulder next time i saw her. I tell her that I'm sorry and that I'll make it up to her, she replies " you can't make it up to me, and I'm mad at you." So, many days go by and this girl who was calling me every day wont call me and wont reply to my texts. Finally, i call her and she acts like nothing ever happened and claims that she really wasn't mad that she had to come to work and she was upset with me because i didn't understand why she was mad. She would not say what she was really mad about and simply said that "it was obvious" and that "i should know". Anyway, we make an excuse to meet at work a couple days later and everything seems fine. I call her the next day while i'm heading in to work and she blows up at me for calling her at the time I did because "I should have known she'd be busy then". She also seems mad that i came into work at a different time then i had said i would(we don't work at the same office). I feel like this girl just can't make up her mind about me(remember she is married). I just need help to understand her behavior. What did i do to make her mad that should be so obvious? Why would she want to talk to me so much and then all of a sudden give me the cold shoulder over such a little misunderstanding? Why is she so hot and cold? How should i handle her giving me the cold shoulder? I'm sorry to ramble on so much and i realize this post is kind of disjointed, i'm just looking for answers.

 

[HellAtlantic]

The answer has been under your nose the whole time my friend.

Do you want the answer? I'll give it to you.

Here it goes...


The suspense is killing you huh?


The answer is: she is married. Find another girl who is available. The end.

She is either the only female at your job or you are a glutton for drama. Would you put up with this much drama if she was your girlfriend? Likely not. But at least you'd be having sex with her in that case. This is a lot of drama and heartache over a girl who is not available.

The best advice we get is often the one we don't want to hear. I'm sorry that you have invested this much of your time but it's better to cut your losses than to keep feeding her ego and you getting nothing out of it.

I will say I've enjoyed reading this thread though. Keep us/me posted!

 

[Account3275]

Haha, I appreciate your candor my friend. However, I have to say this: I don't care that she's married. I like the girl and I want the girl. I get the sense that her marriage is less than perfect and I believe that she is struggling with the idea of what her future will be like with her current husband. Yes, She is unavailable(for now) but people separate and get divorces all the time(sadly it seems to be the norm). Other than the specific questions I asked in my last post, I'm really asking for insight from more experienced men into her mindset. I want to know how I can escalate things with her. I realize that both of us are restricted in what we say,do and express because she is married(and believe me it's very frustrating). We both like each other and If she was separated we would already be together. I believe she's having trouble rectifying how she feels about me since she is married. I have other love interests, but this one is the most alluring to me. Thank you for taking the time to read these posts and comment.

 

[HellAtlantic]

I'm all the experience man you need, on this subject at least. And the answer you're looking for is what you suspect. I'm a married man and I see the signs based on what you've written, and I'm sure anyone else can see them too. She allowed you into her room and offered you to sleep there. What do you think that means?

Ppl who are in committed relationships and are faithful take extra steps not to put themselves into situations where someone of the opposite sex will be alone with them, even more so if it's overnight.

If you were someone she wasn't attracted to do you suppose she'd be interested in inviting you into her room? No.

I'm also in a similar situation at work, although in my case I'm the married person. Since I'm a guy I can be a little more cavalier about my willingness to do something outside my marriage. I told the girl I'm friends with who I share sexual tension with and with whom I want to give multiple orgasms to that I hooked up with another chick recently (the truth). I did it to signal I am a sexual man and am open to encounters outside my marriage. I openly talk about my marriage problems with her (in a general sort of way, not every little problem). This allows her to confirm that her fantasies about me could potentially happen. Your married coworker is a girl tho, and they aren't as verbal with their openness. So what do they do? They invite you into their rooms on business trips. They let you see that they save your notes to them (my coworker saves the drawings I give her and displays them around her desk, I'm pretty good at drawing). They contact you outside of work (as me and my coworker do with texting each other later in the evening).

So you have your answer. You didn't make a move when you had the best absolute chance and you're kindve playing catchup now. Maybe try to arrange a work outing after hours. Didn't you try to get something going for your work holiday party? Find ways to be with her outside of work. Most of the intense convos I have with my coworker are when we go out for drinks with other coworkers and everyone leaves except the two of us. But let me tell you one thing - all married couples have issues in one shape or form so you can't really base that on anything. Deep dive her more, make her tell you about how it's going. If she says she loves her marriage and husband then no dice. If she complains and says things like "I'm miserable" or "we're not right for each other anymore" or any kind of blatant "this marriage sucks" complaint then those are your cues to pursue. That would be a married persons way of saying "my marriage isn't sacred to me, I'm open to better options". No married person will explicitly say "I can't wait to cheat on my spouse and you're the person I would do it with" - that's risking to much. So you have to subtlely drop hints that infidelity is something you'd consider. You put the other person at ease because you essentially say "don't feel bad if I cheat on my spouse, my marriage is broken and I need someone else to fulfill the needs that my marriage isn't providing, it's safe to engage in something with me because you aren't damaging anything that isn't already broken". But that has to be hinted at, no one will come out and say it, girl or guy. Good luck.

 

[Account3275]

Thanks man, I really appreciate you taking the time to reply. I think i'll take your advice and see what happens.

 

[mb1]

I only read the first few posts, though there are THREE categories of men women are interested in. You seem to think that she would either view you as a friend or someone sexual. I believe she wanted you as a lover while you wanted to be her romantic partner - two separate sexual categories.

I noticed your first post states liking this woman very much and wanting her in your life. I think her fantasy was more so looking for a guy who would be saying "I really want to fuck this woman".

 

[ray_zorse]

Can I suggest that some of you dudes read Franco Seduction? (Not the Franco from these boards).

The theme is pretty simple. Women want to select the best possible mate, so that their genes get passed on to future generations (if they make an incorrect mating decision they will have lower quality offspring who are less likely to pass on their genes, thus the female trait of selecting the best possible mate is selected for). So they need to mate with a strong man. One of the ways they do this is by letting the man initiate sex. Weak men don't initiate sex, so by waiting for the man to initiate sex, she avoids getting pregnant to a weak man. Obviously, her attraction system is inherited through millenia of natural selection during which time condoms and birth control weren't available, so it basically assumes that sex = reproduction. Her instinctive behaviour is quite predictable like this. Note that if you're in an escalation situation and you verbally escalate like "I really like you, I want relationship with you" it's a disaster, this looks extremely weak.

So, I'm talking to OP (Account3275) and HellAtlantic -- based on your posts, you've both spent significant time with colleagues with significant amounts of attraction, possibly mutual attraction, and/or sexual tension -- yet you haven't made a move. This is why sex hasn't happened. Had you made a move, then you might have found sex wasn't on the cards. But more than likely, especially if you were practiced in seduction techniques such as handling women's tests (we are NOT having sex! I have my period! I don't have one night stands! I'm married! I won't go into a hotel, I know what happens there! et cetera)... you would have found she was down to fuck. Women are water. By assuming that many problems stand in the way (her boyfriend... her career... her social status at work... etc), you basically acted like her girlfriend, and she picked this up from you and ran with it. That's how a weak man behaves. A strong man just grabs what he wants.

As to OP, I suggest you read this article. It seems to fit your situation. However, it does also appear, that she may be giving you a second chance. This almost never happens in cases of missed window, but it is possible. One thing we sometimes see is, you disqualify yourself as a lover, but still have significant boyfriend value. This doesn't seem to fit your case since she's married, but maybe she's considering leaving the marriage? More likely I would say, is that after missed window she acts as if everything is fine and she doesn't hate you, but really she does. She just can't admit that anything changed, because that would be admitting she acted like a slut. So she just pretends everything's fine, but strangely seems to throw up a lot of roadblocks in your way at every turn. That's typical missed window behaviour. Another possibility is what radeng suggested -- she never saw you as a sexual option in the first place, so no missed window is involved, the anger was because you tried to move things forward with her, and now she misses her bff?

Ray

 

[HellAtlantic]

Nice points Ray. One thing is I wouldn't necessarily lump me, a married guy, along with the OP. Yes strong men take what they want, but more accurately strong single men do that. Strong married men (with kids) are married men at the end of the day so we need to balance desire with responsibility with discretion. More so when the person is a coworker - even more discretion is needed. So your thoughts are very likely accurate but this community isn't necessarily one size fits all. Someone up top actually wrote the most accurate line of this thread - married ppl move slower and jump through more hoops to set up one on one situations. There's that balancing "desire + responsibility + discretion". Married ppl have more to lose than some broke college kid studying pickup. We have to screen for interest AND discreteness because not everyone is interested in hooking up with a married person and not everyone can keep their mouths shut. I don't think there's any woman who holds it against a married man who takes things slower than a single man - that's where looks and working out and having muscles comes into play as I can keep attraction window open longer than some chubby guy who has a smaller window of attraction before it expires.

This is why I told the OP to deep dive her about her relationship. If she complains like "what was I thinking when I married him?!" or anything that signals regret and a sharp dissatisfaction with her spouse then that's the cue to pursue. You have to hint at these things because everyone's natural default assumption when you meet a married coworker is that the person is generally happy and totally committed to their spouse. Everyone has the roller coaster in their marriage but by and large you shouldn't meet a married coworker and immediately think "they have cheated/will cheat". It's only thru deep diving and forming a bond over time can you reveal you are open to such stuff and if you are the non-married coworker you also have to display over time you can keep secrets. Do you know how weird you would look as a married person if the first time you met a coworker you tried to bang them? They would push you away and be creeped out and maybe alert HR. Guy or girl. Haha wake up Ray this is real life not a movie or some how-to based on theory and hypotheticals. In my field/lay report I didn't just jump right in with the girl. We spoke about my dissatisfaction with my marriage and marriage in general and she wholeheartedly agreed. I established myself as a sexual man dissatisfied with my marriage (she already knew I was married as she recognized me from the building where we both work). She established herself as someone who understood the trials and tribulations of being a good looking guy trapped in something that's not so easy to get out of and sympathetic to my dilemma. So when I escalated to kissing and more it didn't feel "off" in a "why are you doing this?" sort of way.

OP missed the big window when she invited him in her room. Her anger is at him not initiating - she wants it to be his "fault". She feels rejected by him after such a blatant move. The easiest thing would be to not pursue and just keep her as a coworker buddy, but of course we as humans rarely want to take the easy option. There's no fun in that.

Keep me posted OP, I find this to be an interesting story.