Mating Dynamics (Why Men are so bitter)

[Rakehell]

I think its funny how dating has evolved.

We are in a age where promiscuity is alot more vocal and “slutty” behavior is alot more accepted in the west.

Guys who were otherwise oblivious to how women actually operate have been bombarded with new understanding and are largely disgusted and embittered.

Pair this with the championing of dating advice
that encourages men to not take action, or to take the wrong action, and you have a terribly huge group of males frustrated and alone.

I’m not sure how dating was during the early 2000s but I do atleast know that men had some type of understanding of mating dynamics and that women actually needed to be approached for results….

or that basic human evolution states that women with an inkling of social value cannot approach the guy she wants directly because it’d destroy her value in the eyes of other guy’s if she were to be rejected….

Of course this new dating terrain is great for guys who were already aware of how women operate, and actually know what they need.

But I do feel bad for the guys who are clueless, because women feel a-lot less obligated to lead on unexperienced males nowadays.

Atleast they used to fuck experienced guys behind nice guy’s back, now they’ll openly cuck the nice guy and keep him around.

The dating field has become alot more cutthroat and ruthless for the weak spirited

on the bright side it doesn’t take as much game to get laid, and it’s alot more fruitful for socially dominant, risk taking guys

 

[Beck Bass]

or that basic human evolution states that women with an inkling of social value cannot approach the guy she wants directly because it’d destroy her value in the eyes of other guy’s if she were to be rejected….

I don't think it's a hard thing like "valueable women never approach" but it's more like men have way more testosterone, therefore are more aggressive, so it's natural it would be the man the part that goes for it (I deff have been approached by some attractive women before, though it was mostly on nightclubs and they probably drank quite a bit, and I made it easy for them to approach). If you ever seen situations were a guy is really high status and there's a bunch of women around him, you probably seen women approaching him, it's just that they rather not (we wouldn't approach if we didn't had to, as well lol)

The dating field has become alot more cutthroat and ruthless for the weak spirited

on the bright side it doesn’t take as much game to get laid, and it’s alot more fruitful for socially dominant, risk taking guys

It's just the consequences of bigger cities and internet and everything being mega amplified and mass-whatever nowadays. Much more people, many more opportunities, much more competition, in a sense (of course many men already accepted defeat, pretty much).

 

[Will_V]

This is what happens when people overturn traditions - the natural laws that the tradition was founded on still prevail, sometimes even more than before, but the tradition no longer regulates it.
I'm not necessarily anti modern, I can adapt, and in any case the destruction of old traditions, at least for some time, is a natural law in itself.
But by losing control of sexual dynamics it's not only second class males that pay the price. Successful men cannot have multiple wives, nor are they fully capable of fending off chaos by shaping their environment into a fortress against what they despise. Neither alphas nor betas control things, but only the mob decides, and the mob always reduces things to the lowest common denominator, because it operates on a kind of universalized fear.
One cannot say it's really better, but in all but the most extreme dystopias a keen eyed adaptable man can win an extraordinary life.

 

[Rakehell]

I don't think it's a hard thing like "valueable women never approach" but it's more like men have way more testosterone, therefore are more aggressive, so it's natural it would be the man the part that goes for it

I agree on a biological level, but on a conscious level this is pretty much the consensus for most girls.

They literally “cant be rejected”

This is why objectively unnattractive girls are often seen with good looking guys

unattractive girls dont mind the risk of being rejected by a guy that everyone perceives as being on a higher level anyway

another side of that coin is high status guys who everyone pines over and is seen as a trophy to the women in his social circle so even value heavy girls feel comfortable putting in more effort

there aren’t really any consequences of a guy approaching if he’s smooth sexy and likeable ( not a creep)

 

[Rakehell]

This is what happens when people overturn traditions - the natural laws that the tradition was founded on still prevail, sometimes even more than before, but the tradition no longer regulates it.
I'm not necessarily anti modern, I can adapt, and in any case the destruction of old traditions, at least for some time, is a natural law in itself.
But by losing control of sexual dynamics it's not only second class males that pay the price. Successful men cannot have multiple wives, nor are they fully capable of fending off chaos by shaping their environment into a fortress against what they despise. Neither alphas nor betas control things, but only the mob decides, and the mob always reduces things to the lowest common denominator, because it operates on a kind of universalized fear.
One cannot say it's really better, but in all but the most extreme dystopias a keen eyed adaptable man can win an extraordinary life.

I agree as long as you are well informed and versatile the underlying dynamic is still there so an adept guy can still win big if he sets the right expectations.

The rules change but the game remains the same.

Its just clueless guys are really suffering right now and I can see it.

 

[Xandin]

A large part of this is how everyone nowadays knows everything about everyone/everything too. A girl I was talking to the other night made an interesting comment that so many people seem almost identical nowadays personality wise until you really get to know them. That being said the desire for a strong confident guy is no less than before, but the availability to them has definitely opened up considerable with dating sites and the like.

 

[PalmaSailor]

I think its funny how dating has evolved.

We are in a age where promiscuity is alot more vocal and “slutty” behavior is alot more accepted in the west.

Guys who were otherwise oblivious to how women actually operate have been bombarded with new understanding and are largely disgusted and embittered.

Pair this with the championing of dating advice
that encourages men to not take action, or to take the wrong action, and you have a terribly huge group of males frustrated and alone.

I’m not sure how dating was during the early 2000s but I do atleast know that men had some type of understanding of mating dynamics and that women actually needed to be approached for results….

or that basic human evolution states that women with an inkling of social value cannot approach the guy she wants directly because it’d destroy her value in the eyes of other guy’s if she were to be rejected….

Of course this new dating terrain is great for guys who were already aware of how women operate, and actually know what they need.

But I do feel bad for the guys who are clueless, because women feel a-lot less obligated to lead on unexperienced males nowadays.

Atleast they used to fuck experienced guys behind nice guy’s back, now they’ll openly cuck the nice guy and keep him around.

The dating field has become alot more cutthroat and ruthless for the weak spirited

on the bright side it doesn’t take as much game to get laid, and it’s alot more fruitful for socially dominant, risk taking guys

*I’m not sure how dating was during the early 2000s*



Well.. where do I start. The internet was in its infancy and it was slow. You dialled up via a modem and it took several minutes for a page to load. It was nothing like it is now. There weren’t really any online dating sites. Apps didn’t exist. Mobile phones had been around properly for 7-8 years and were getting into the mainstream. My fist mobile phone had a shoulder strap because it was so heavy. It cost a months wages and it was £1 a minute to make a call. But again only for talking and rudimentary texting. No other functionality.



We talk here a lot about “cold approach” but the thing is back then, there wasn’t any other way apart from cold approach “talking to girls”. It’s only really the last 15 or so years that any “non personal” method has been an option. And it can’t be a coincidence that the dating climate for ordinary men has degenerated beyond belief in that period.



Frankly in terms of getting with women, anything online is shit. You just shouldn’t do it. You should expand your activities so as to come into contact with women and get talking to them that way.



It wasn’t such a big deal in the past. You could go out and the bars would often be rammed, and remember that the women got no free validation from online like they do now. They actually had to talk to men / go out, get dressed up etc. If they wanted attention. It wasn’t delivered to their living room while they were sat there in sweats.



Also - women did chase men. Very much. At one stage pre mobile phones in the 1980’s to 1990’s they would go out and they would literally go around the bars to find a certain man they were interested in. If they couldn’t physically find him there was no other way of contacting him. They’d end up banging some other guy rather than getting no action.



Ugly women just didn’t get any attention, and ended up partnering with what they could get.



If I had to sum it up back then I’d say it was healthier. Chase wrote a poast saying that online dating is the new friend zone and I think he’s totally correct but I didn’t have the privileges to comment.



To be brutally honest, I think both men and women are getting what they deserve right now for being bloody lazy and spineless or attention seeking and / or expecting technology to do the heavy lifting / remove the “risk” of getting out there in person.



The turning point was actually tinder. Counterintuitively it didn’t sort the men in order for the women to choose, what it’s actually done is sort out the women into a ranking for the top men to choose. THAT was the point where women en masse got a taste of getting laid by a guy well out of their league which ruined them and made them bitter towards more “normal” men.



In the past even the very good looking / charming men still had to go out to meet women. Now those men literally have it queuing up. I am not It in that category, but to put it in perspective when i separated from my second wife ten years ago it was just before tinder. At that time with normal online dating I was banging 2-3 new women every week from online. It was just falling out of the sky and I was in my early 40’s.



Tinder was incredible initially. I remember flying in to a Spanish island in the Mediterranean, changing my location to that island whilst in the departure lounge in the U.K., getting a match on landing and getting a taxi straight to her place staying the night and banging her.



Things have changed, and men now need to take a pragmatic approach to their entire lives if they want to get with women. Online is not the answer.

 

[MuST0BtA1NSkR1Lla]

It’s the exact opposite and you can tell if you explore these women’s residences.

Two things to watch out for in the coming months are very simple.

- Is the housing market going to correct?

- What is going to happen when the final rent cancellation is canceled

- Are good paying jobs going to return?

Before all this covid it was school shootings and worst. For me as a successful man I’m just not willing to with all the risk and costs of everything going out and dating these women. Alot of these women are waking up to the fact and are getting super pissed about it,

Quick example was drinking the other day with two buddies who just finished a double date. The group of women beside us start trying to engage my friends and I told them to leave them alone and that they were not at all interested and they started going batshit insaneeeeee.

They ended up getting kicked out. this isn’t that unusual now adays except for the oddball reaction from the chicks. Except this isn’t an oddball reaction it shows two things.

- How spoiled a lot of women are

- How poor a lot of women’s socialization skills have become

As a guy I’m more happy to take a hands off approach and wait this one out for a longer period of time. I am in zero rush at this exact moment for getting laid I would almost call this one of the worst times for actual PUA out there in the access to good quality women unless travelling

 

[Rakehell]

*I’m not sure how dating was during the early 2000s*



Well.. where do I start. The internet was in its infancy and it was slow. You dialled up via a modem and it took several minutes for a page to load. It was nothing like it is now. There weren’t really any online dating sites. Apps didn’t exist. Mobile phones had been around properly for 7-8 years and were getting into the mainstream. My fist mobile phone had a shoulder strap because it was so heavy. It cost a months wages and it was £1 a minute to make a call. But again only for talking and rudimentary texting. No other functionality.



We talk here a lot about “cold approach” but the thing is back then, there wasn’t any other way apart from cold approach “talking to girls”. It’s only really the last 15 or so years that any “non personal” method has been an option. And it can’t be a coincidence that the dating climate for ordinary men has degenerated beyond belief in that period.



Frankly in terms of getting with women, anything online is shit. You just shouldn’t do it. You should expand your activities so as to come into contact with women and get talking to them that way.



It wasn’t such a big deal in the past. You could go out and the bars would often be rammed, and remember that the women got no free validation from online like they do now. They actually had to talk to men / go out, get dressed up etc. If they wanted attention. It wasn’t delivered to their living room while they were sat there in sweats.



Also - women did chase men. Very much. At one stage pre mobile phones in the 1980’s to 1990’s they would go out and they would literally go around the bars to find a certain man they were interested in. If they couldn’t physically find him there was no other way of contacting him. They’d end up banging some other guy rather than getting no action.



Ugly women just didn’t get any attention, and ended up partnering with what they could get.



If I had to sum it up back then I’d say it was healthier. Chase wrote a poast saying that online dating is the new friend zone and I think he’s totally correct but I didn’t have the privileges to comment.



To be brutally honest, I think both men and women are getting what they deserve right now for being bloody lazy and spineless or attention seeking and / or expecting technology to do the heavy lifting / remove the “risk” of getting out there in person.



The turning point was actually tinder. Counterintuitively it didn’t sort the men in order for the women to choose, what it’s actually done is sort out the women into a ranking for the top men to choose. THAT was the point where women en masse got a taste of getting laid by a guy well out of their league which ruined them and made them bitter towards more “normal” men.



In the past even the very good looking / charming men still had to go out to meet women. Now those men literally have it queuing up. I am not It in that category, but to put it in perspective when i separated from my second wife ten years ago it was just before tinder. At that time with normal online dating I was banging 2-3 new women every week from online. It was just falling out of the sky and I was in my early 40’s.



Tinder was incredible initially. I remember flying in to a Spanish island in the Mediterranean, changing my location to that island whilst in the departure lounge in the U.K., getting a match on landing and getting a taxi straight to her place staying the night and banging her.



Things have changed, and men now need to take a pragmatic approach to their entire lives if they want to get with women. Online is not the answer.

definitely, the internet has skewed people’s perception of reality

early 2000s sounds like it was an interesting time

 

[Rakehell]

As a guy I’m more happy to take a hands off approach and wait this one out for a longer period of time. I am in zero rush at this exact moment for getting laid I would almost call this one of the worst times for actual PUA out there in the access to good quality women unless travelling

I see

So are you quitting women in general or just approaching?

all of this covid nonsense is really confusing for the general public with the new varients n what not

 

[MuST0BtA1NSkR1Lla]

I see

So are you quitting women in general or just approaching?

all of this covid nonsense is really confusing for the general public with the new varients n what not

Neither, I should do a larger post and explain if you guys would be interested write me so and I’ll do a good analysis.

My point is this; Women have gigantic problems that they do not know how to deal with.

They do not understand for example if they are inheritors of property how to expell people off that property or the process that pertains. They do not understand crypto, the stock market. You ask them to fix their car and they have zero fucking clue how to do it, a billion million things like these I can’t understate it enough.

These skinny big titty bitches still have parents that are going to need to at some point to retire, responsibilities and troubles hit very hard. They’ll wreck their cars, get sued, laid off of their jobs, student debts etc…etc….

And when they realize this they go into a gigantic “Oh fuck” motion. I’d have to do the background check but most women come from single family homes, which means the majority of women are single children.

This forces two things to occur,

one of them is a further masculinization of their habits. Which hurts them a lot

OR

They find a man to date

And in risk management which is a philosophical way of living. I rate the risk to reward ratio and at the moment the risk of debits and credits is swayed far more in the women’s direction then it is of mans.

I’m very very comfortable in just saying no. Doesn’t mean I am spitting out no’s, but in a high risk environment it’s a necessity.

Don’t take risk. Hunker down with a gf

 

[DarkKnight]

You know guys.. I have to say I kinda feel for the kids growing up right now too.. Instagram has made things FAR worse than mobile apps or tinder. Imagine you are some 16 year old nerdy kid, you look at the instagram page of some average girl with great pictures and in a bikini.. and she has THOUSANDS of followers. These kids already live in their digital world. How can their young minds hold frame against something like that. Also you are not interacting.. you are pedestalizing. It's super gay.

And I notice something as well.. we know that even if something is fake when you visualize/experience it in some way it becomes internalized... I have never seen so many girls think they are divas as in this age and none of them are something special. You really need to use preselection / punish/reward frames to put them at place.. or simply literally put them in place when they try cocky frame grabs. Beneath the surface they are insecure but it takes experience to perceive that, most of which most guys lack. Girls can read it in your eyes when you are not really invested/impressed... They can read those micro expressions.

Also as another above noted there are no real traditions anymore so there are no clear rules.. and women being the masters of ambiguity know how to use it.. So we have one group transcending the other, and the other being simpy, needy or guilty without any good cause.. Al

Also ofcourse the simp epidemic... I was at the gym 2 days ago.. and this tall girl who is pretty good looking, but not perfect had tight and very flashy clothes. I said hi, she acted too cool for school, I disregarded her and talked to another chick. Half hour later I see a mate... and the same girl walks by and he starts simping loudly WOOW LOOK AT HER BLAH BLAH.. I immediately quelled it down with, relax dude she will see you as a chump, wat has she done to earn that praise except dressing flashy? He was upset that I had said something like that... Just imagine being a girl walking by and guys acting this desperate.. I would feel like a 10 as well.

 

[Will_V]

You know guys.. I have to say I kinda feel for the kids growing up right now too.. Instagram has made things FAR worse than mobile apps or tinder. Imagine you are some 16 year old nerdy kid, you look at the instagram page of some average girl with great pictures and in a bikini.. and she has THOUSANDS of followers. These kids already live in their digital world. How can their young minds hold frame against something like that. Also you are not interacting.. you are pedestalizing. It's super gay.

And I notice something as well.. we know that even if something is fake when you visualize/experience it in some way it becomes internalized... I have never seen so many girls think they are divas as in this age and none of them are something special. You really need to use preselection / punish/reward frames to put them at place.. or simply literally put them in place when they try cocky frame grabs. Beneath the surface they are insecure but it takes experience to perceive that, most of which most guys lack. Girls can read it in your eyes when you are not really invested/impressed... They can read those micro expressions.

Also as another above noted there are no real traditions anymore so there are no clear rules.. and women being the masters of ambiguity know how to use it.. So we have one group transcending the other, and the other being simpy, needy or guilty without any good cause.. Al

Also ofcourse the simp epidemic... I was at the gym 2 days ago.. and this tall girl who is pretty good looking, but not perfect had tight and very flashy clothes. I said hi, she acted too cool for school, I disregarded her and talked to another chick. Half hour later I see a mate... and the same girl walks by and he starts simping loudly WOOW LOOK AT HER BLAH BLAH.. I immediately quelled it down with, relax dude she will see you as a chump, wat has she done to earn that praise except dressing flashy? He was upset that I had said something like that... Just imagine being a girl walking by and guys acting this desperate.. I would feel like a 10 as well.

I don't agree that women really know how to use this new environment, they are masters of ambiguity but they do not know how to lead. So the new norm is for guys to be either simps or 'outsiders' what Chase calls the 'beautiful ones'. The former women don't want, the latter women cannot do anything with because they won't lead. And the guys at the top, they know exactly what's what, they know that women are desperate for the best, driven by all the pressure of instagram and competition. So women will get played by them relentlessly. Women have not got it better, they are as lost as men, if not more.

That's why I say it's just chaos now, nobody is actually better off, in fact one might say that everyone is categorically worse off (relationship wise, at least, but this is irrelevant since women are rarely consciously looking for a one night stand). One of the functions of the old society, the traditional marriage etc (at least in theory) was to trade the right things for eachother so that even if nobody really got to have their cake and eat it, nobody was left in the ditch.

Again, I'm not saying this is necessarily better. I would personally advocate a society where something like traditional monogamy was the norm for the average man, and the top men were able to have more freedom as a function of merit and resources.

But right now everyone is desperate, lost and confused like never before.

About kids and their perceptions, that's something I think as a father one would have to teach. There's no way I'd let my kid grow up without understanding the reality under the matrix, otherwise they're either going to have to go through a lot of crap or end up cannon fodder for the modern dating paradigm.

 

[Rakehell]

I’ve seen my fair share of pedestal behaviors also recently.

Just recently some guy ran up to the front of this store I was in, cutting the entire line, so he could call a cashier beautiful. Judging by her reaction I’m guessing it didn’t go over very well for him.
I respect the courage but come on man.

But, as you all said, when you set the right frames, by laughing off whatever cocky frames she tries to set, it gives alot of leverage for us early on.

My more empathetic self still feels bad over capitalizing off of other people’s foolish mistakes tho.

 

[POB]

Well.. where do I start. The internet was in its infancy and it was slow. You dialled up via a modem and it took several minutes for a page to load. It was nothing like it is now. There weren’t really any online dating sites. Apps didn’t exist. Mobile phones had been around properly for 7-8 years and were getting into the mainstream. My fist mobile phone had a shoulder strap because it was so heavy. It cost a months wages and it was £1 a minute to make a call. But again only for talking and rudimentary texting. No other functionality.

Damn, my first mobile was an ultratac 700 (with a fancy anthena )!

We talk here a lot about “cold approach” but the thing is back then, there wasn’t any other way apart from cold approach “talking to girls”. It’s only really the last 15 or so years that any “non personal” method has been an option. And it can’t be a coincidence that the dating climate for ordinary men has degenerated beyond belief in that period.

Correct. It's a shame.

Frankly in terms of getting with women, anything online is shit. You just shouldn’t do it. You should expand your activities so as to come into contact with women and get talking to them that way.

Correct again. Online should be supplemental (like during covid lockdown or cold season)

It wasn’t such a big deal in the past. You could go out and the bars would often be rammed, and remember that the women got no free validation from online like they do now. They actually had to talk to men / go out, get dressed up etc. If they wanted attention. It wasn’t delivered to their living room while they were sat there in sweats.

Yes, if they wanted to get laid, they HAD TO go out and show themselves in the best light possible. The market was brutal (but fair) for both genders.

Also - women did chase men. Very much. At one stage pre mobile phones in the 1980’s to 1990’s they would go out and they would literally go around the bars to find a certain man they were interested in. If they couldn’t physically find him there was no other way of contacting him. They’d end up banging some other guy rather than getting no action.

Sadly I was too young during that time

Ugly women just didn’t get any attention, and ended up partnering with what they could get.

They still do once they don't find what they think they "deserve" online.

If I had to sum it up back then I’d say it was healthier. Chase wrote a poast saying that online dating is the new friend zone and I think he’s totally correct but I didn’t have the privileges to comment.

It was

To be brutally honest, I think both men and women are getting what they deserve right now for being bloody lazy and spineless or attention seeking and / or expecting technology to do the heavy lifting / remove the “risk” of getting out there in person.

Amem

The turning point was actually tinder. Counterintuitively it didn’t sort the men in order for the women to choose, what it’s actually done is sort out the women into a ranking for the top men to choose. THAT was the point where women en masse got a taste of getting laid by a guy well out of their league which ruined them and made them bitter towards more “normal” men.

Tinder was the shit 10 years ago. Now it's just the poor tik-tok/onlyfans middle cousin.

In the past even the very good looking / charming men still had to go out to meet women. Now those men literally have it queuing up. I am not It in that category, but to put it in perspective when i separated from my second wife ten years ago it was just before tinder. At that time with normal online dating I was banging 2-3 new women every week from online. It was just falling out of the sky and I was in my early 40’s.

Yes, I was 32 and having a blast.

Tinder was incredible initially. I remember flying in to a Spanish island in the Mediterranean, changing my location to that island whilst in the departure lounge in the U.K., getting a match on landing and getting a taxi straight to her place staying the night and banging her.

I did that on every travel too hahaha. Once I almost lost my flight because I was fucking a redhead in Chile.

Things have changed, and men now need to take a pragmatic approach to their entire lives if they want to get with women. Online is not the answer.

Online was never the answer. When I started to do online I already had a lot of live experience, because as you said, there was simply no other way. In my early 20s I was a tall, shy, nerd, skinny, needy dude and still got laid with cute chicks. Now buffed dudes who have it all looks-wise complain they can't get a good match on tinder. Fuck that, then just go out and find the women you wanna fuck.

 

[POB]

I'm doing a mentorship program exclusively with women.
Do you know what their biggest complaint is?
"Guys don't ask me out, they just wanna talk/text forever"
The second one?
"They set up a date and don't show"
Third one?
"They come with a lot of extra luggage (kids, exes, moms, broke)"

I'm sorry, but all of this is on men, not women.
If guys just refused to give women any online attention, all dating apps and social media would go down the toilet in 2 seconds.

 

[Beck Bass]

That's why I say it's just chaos now, nobody is actually better off, in fact one might say that everyone is categorically worse off (relationship wise, at least, but this is irrelevant since women are rarely consciously looking for a one night stand). One of the functions of the old society, the traditional marriage etc (at least in theory) was to trade the right things for eachother so that even if nobody really got to have their cake and eat it, nobody was left in the ditch.

Very true.
Also not all women are in this digital megasimp girl worship world. My sister, for example, doesn't have an Instagram, and she could easily have 10k+ simps following her if she just had one (we have good genes, I must say lol)... she just rather not deal with this crap. She already has like a thousando Facebook friend requests and she can't be bothered (she doesn't even have lots of photos there or anything remotely revealing). Guys are just desperate like that.
Instead she goes out with guys that she sees in real life, the ones that approach her and approach her well...
Girls that rely too much on this type of digital validation are honestly just sad people, it's like guys that use drugs all day to feel good, or that nerd that play videogames 12+ hours a day and has no fucking life. They really have no fucking life.
But I truly believe most girls aren't on quite that level.

 

[PalmaSailor]

You know guys.. I have to say I kinda feel for the kids growing up right now too.. Instagram has made things FAR worse than mobile apps or tinder. Imagine you are some 16 year old nerdy kid, you look at the instagram page of some average girl with great pictures and in a bikini.. and she has THOUSANDS of followers. These kids already live in their digital world. How can their young minds hold frame against something like that. Also you are not interacting.. you are pedestalizing. It's super gay.

And I notice something as well.. we know that even if something is fake when you visualize/experience it in some way it becomes internalized... I have never seen so many girls think they are divas as in this age and none of them are something special. You really need to use preselection / punish/reward frames to put them at place.. or simply literally put them in place when they try cocky frame grabs. Beneath the surface they are insecure but it takes experience to perceive that, most of which most guys lack. Girls can read it in your eyes when you are not really invested/impressed... They can read those micro expressions.

Also as another above noted there are no real traditions anymore so there are no clear rules.. and women being the masters of ambiguity know how to use it.. So we have one group transcending the other, and the other being simpy, needy or guilty without any good cause.. Al

Also ofcourse the simp epidemic... I was at the gym 2 days ago.. and this tall girl who is pretty good looking, but not perfect had tight and very flashy clothes. I said hi, she acted too cool for school, I disregarded her and talked to another chick. Half hour later I see a mate... and the same girl walks by and he starts simping loudly WOOW LOOK AT HER BLAH BLAH.. I immediately quelled it down with, relax dude she will see you as a chump, wat has she done to earn that praise except dressing flashy? He was upset that I had said something like that... Just imagine being a girl walking by and guys acting this desperate.. I would feel like a 10 as well.

I don’t do social media and i haven’t done Instagram because I think both are toxic and basically you get pulled into someone else’s frame.

It’s their attention seeking and validation frame. And most young men get sucked in. Women actually desperately do need sex and intimacy from men they perceive as higher value than themselves.

I think though outwardly they “love the attention” they’re getting more and more frustrated at ten sea of chumps that can’t bust a move.

Most, if not All of the current behaviours of most men amount to pedestalisation of women / an overt admission that they consider themselves lower value than the woman concerned. That “WOOW LOOK AT HER” is typical. Mentally in his mind she was above him, and he was below her. Ie he’s thinking he’d be lucky to get her when he should be thinking she’d be lucky to get him.

he didn’t think he could get with her. If he’d ignored her or said something like “a bit skinny for me” then she’d want to know why he wasn’t interested and be all over him.

Understand this now - Women DO NOT fuck men they perceive as lower than they are in sexual market value. Note I said sexual market value, not wealth, status or anything like that (though those things do play a part). Hot women will get with a bad arse drug dealing biker because he hot wires one of her primal attraction cues which in this case is ability to physically protect.

Its typical sun tsu art of war. If you can’t win the war on the opponents territory (online) then move the war to your own territory where you can win (in person interaction).

 

[PalmaSailor]

I'm doing a mentorship program exclusively with women.
Do you know what their biggest complaint is?
"Guys don't ask me out, they just wanna talk/text forever"
The second one?
"They set up a date and don't show"
Third one?
"They come with a lot of extra luggage (kids, exes, moms, broke)"

I'm sorry, but all of this is on men, not women.
If guys just refused to give women any online attention, all dating apps and social media would go down the toilet in 2 seconds.

The problem is the 80/20 rule, though in this case it’s more likely to be 95/5

it’s market dynamics. Men are so pre conditioned to give attention because women say it’s “what they want” that men believe doing this is what’s going to get them laid.

they don’t actually want the men that are giving them online attention but it gives the perception of an unlimited supply of chumps. Backup. Plan B men.

there is a binary though process which circles around doing what women say that they want, when actually you have to do the opposite

I was out with a friend a couple of years ago and we’re in our 50’s. There were these two women late 20’s / early 30’s that were all over us. They were good looking but a bit tedious and I was getting bored with their shit testing (it means they were interested). It was a boys night out and we had stuff to talk about.

Anyway I told these girls that they were boring me now, and I turned to a group of younger guys and said “this is Sharon and Tracy, can you entertain them they’re boring the shit out of me” and I basically passed them to this group on men and turned my back. The men were all over them but the women hated hated hated it and broke away and tried to get back in conversation with us for the rest of the night.

so take from that what you will.

 

[POB]

The problem is the 80/20 rule, though in this case it’s more likely to be 95/5

it’s market dynamics. Men are so pre conditioned to give attention because women say it’s “what they want” that men believe doing this is what’s going to get them laid.

they don’t actually want the men that are giving them online attention but it gives the perception of an unlimited supply of chumps. Backup. Plan B men.

there is a binary though process which circles around doing what women say that they want, when actually you have to do the opposite

I was out with a friend a couple of years ago and we’re in our 50’s. There were these two women late 20’s / early 30’s that were all over us. They were good looking but a bit tedious and I was getting bored with their shit testing (it means they were interested). It was a boys night out and we had stuff to talk about.

Anyway I told these girls that they were boring me now, and I turned to a group of younger guys and said “this is Sharon and Tracy, can you entertain them they’re boring the shit out of me” and I basically passed them to this group on men and turned my back. The men were all over them but the women hated hated hated it and broke away and tried to get back in conversation with us for the rest of the night.

so take from that what you will.

It's the same when you say to any woman you are banging: "Look, I think you are cool and amazing but I'm not looking for anything serious right now. If you really want that, I'm def not the right guy. No harm will be done if you stop seeing me and start to look for someone else, but if you stay, that's how it goes with me".

Nothing more powerful than not giving a shit (they should teach that in middle school).