Messed up pretty girls (REPLIES MORE THAN WELCOME)

[torrancea88]

DISCLAIMER: I assume this post goes here because although it is kind of a field report I don't think is an orderly application of PUA techniques therefore I wouldn't like this post to serve as an role model for other members in a similar situation, however with the help of other community members with much more experience it might help a lot folks out there facing a similar challenges so, yes I took one for the team who hasn't right?


Alright what's up folks so here's another story of my vertiginous trip throughout the female mind.

So I'm a social gathering, an event where people met when they're struggling for a common cause, you know fundraiser type. Anyhow I saw this very attractive female during one of the speeches I gaze at her she gazes back we have a little non-verbal interaction and whatnot.

After that I decided to approach her, there was like a good rapport nice conversation jokes back and forth everything pretty smoothly. At the end somebody else was calling her she had to take off I got her phone number and we ended the conversation with a little hug and everything. But here's the catch during the conversation she mentioned her "boyfriend" and as a good PUA apprentice I disregarded that mention and continue as it nothing happened. Oh one detail she from another city like 1 hour from my hometown.

So applying some of the PUA rules that teach us not to lose momentum you know take the advantage created during the initial encounter, I decided to give her a call the same day so that "she could have my number and say hello all the while"

Anyhow I wouldn't say the conversation went particularly well she was a little more distant that in person I applied some of the techniques like playing the "I don't know if you're interesting thing" like you know trying to not sound like the scores of guys that must hit on her daily, like kissing her ass and the like, I acted rather disinterested and trying to play the "make HER chase" me game.

So, that was the call, then she calls me again like one hour later asking me to help her boyfriend to decide wether he was a good candidate for an MBA or not, since I already have that degree she said that if I could sit with him for a couple of minutes to give him some advice and whatnot, here comes the trouble at first I didn't know how to react I was frankly baffled what the heck is the matter with this woman asking me favors for her boyfriend. (Yeah I know she doesn't belong to me, this shouldn't be a trouble for me to give the guy some help, but I got an ego that sometimes I cannot keep under control)

So I reacted as follows: I told her I didn't have the time I was pretty busy that I'll text her to let her know when I have the time. Then she started telling me how good her boyfriend was how much of a gentleman he was and whatnot, now by this point I was starting to get a little pissed off, why do I care about this, alright I got the point you love him he is superman but why are you telling me these things (I DIDN'T SAY THAT BUT THAT WAS WHAT I WAS THINKING)

Then I told her after she finished touting the guy that he sounded boring, she started to tell me he wasn't boring that he was cool and whatnot. Then just out of curiosity I asked her how long have you been dating this guy, she says TWO WEEKS, then I told her "two weeks and you already know he's not boring" anyhow from that point and onwards the conversation went downwards and she told me she had to go.

So, what do you think guys? I don't know my gut feeling is that I acted inadequately but you know every man has an ego and so do I, throw a little testosterone in the mix and you get situations like this, but what was I supposed to do? Tell her sure I'll give your little boyfriend some coaching so he can relax at nights screwing you? What am I, a fool? There you have it testosterone speaking again

Some of the more experienced members of the community please a little feedback I know most attractive females are never out of a relationship and most the time they have lines of guys waiting for her to break up with her current boyfriend, so I ask you a little advice so I don't make the same mistakes again, as for this girl I know she is lost but some others like her surely will come!

 

[user3423424]

Hi torrancea88 ,

I'm not sure how to handle this situation but when you mention ,how she started to involve her boyfriend into the conversation and wanted you to assist him . I would be in a laughing stock . If you do try to contact her boyfriend and he appericate your advice , my view of the boyfriend would be he isn't that dominated toward the woman or if he deny your assistance , his going to be mad at the woman for letting another male assist him

 

[torrancea88]

Thanks for your Reply user34 I appreciate it, now with regard to your assessment I couldn't care less about her 2 weeks "boyfriend" feelings, that's why I chose to diplomatically (kind of) pass on her "offer" of me advising him on his career choices I told her I didn't had the time (which is partially truth) and I refused even when she practically begged me for 5 minutes with the guy, when she started describing how much of a good guy he was (yeah like his good guy qualities was what attracted her in the first place) I just told her the guy sounded boring, that I was sorry but he did, despite her petty attempts to say he wasn't she couldn't come out with a reason why he wasn't, what almost cracked me up during the conversation was when she said the time they've been dating "TWO WEEKS" LOL my gut reaction was "So only two weeks and you know he's not boring OK"

So anyway this is a young girl so even though she's pretty VERY and she has more experience that her average looking counterparts regarding relationships I do not think she is THAT experienced, so I'm thinking in playing a little bit with her sending her a text message along these lines.

"Hey Sorry if I came off a little distant with your request yesterday, the fellow you’re dating might be a likable person and whatnot, and if I’d know him I might like him is just that I think I might like you better, I’m not interesting in him but I might be in you. But if I don't get to know you as person I'd never know if I actually will find you interesting or not, see? is a predicament


It is what it is, and I’m not going to apologize for that, have a great day artist hope you find your inspiration somewhere (For the record that's what she's involved in art)

Notice I didn't use the "B" word I said "the guy your dating" I guess that's gonna be my last shot with this lady, too bad, she was like a 9 and seemed like a nice girl, but I'm gonna have to let her go.

 

[Franco]

torrancea88,

Generally when a girl brings up her boyfriend in conversation more than once, it's usually a polite "brush off" that she's not interested in anything romantic with you. This is especially the case if she brings it up again in a new conversation that you start with her (which was, in this case, the phone call you made).

The only thing you could have done was to just ignore the comments about her boyfriend and see if she was interested in having a drink or coffee with you -- that is, if you wanted to try to see how far you could get given the circumstances. But as soon as she starts touting her boyfriend to be something amazing, it's usually just a sign that she's still not interested, and she's trying to let you know that she's not. I wouldn't have really bothered continuing this conversation any further with her from this point.

Then I told her after she finished touting the guy that he sounded boring, she started to tell me he wasn't boring that he was cool and whatnot. Then just out of curiosity I asked her how long have you been dating this guy, she says TWO WEEKS, then I told her "two weeks and you already know he's not boring" anyhow from that point and onwards the conversation went downwards and she told me she had to go.

Challenging her boyfriend's status is likely only going to hurt your cause to try to gain her interest. It's true that all of us have a certain level of "ego," but what you'll find with experience is that trying to tout your own ego by diminishing someone else's never really gets you anywhere with women. It comes from a place of weakness -- a man who knows he has no trouble with women doesn't bother putting down other men because it's a waste of his time. He'll just go out and find more available women.

"Hey Sorry if I came off a little distant with your request yesterday, the fellow you’re dating might be a likable person and whatnot, and if I’d know him I might like him is just that I think I might like you better, I’m not interesting in him but I might be in you. But if I don't get to know you as person I'd never know if I actually will find you interesting or not, see? is a predicament

I wouldn't bother sending this. She might even be a bit weirded out if you do. Generally when a girl is seeing another guy, you'll know very quickly if she's open to seeing someone else. She'll hardly mention him and look for you to lead and move things forward extremely quickly. This is not the case in this situation, and it sounds like she's trying to friend zone you because she is asking you to do favors for her. I would say that you should move on to the next one!

- Franco

 

[torrancea88]

Thanks Franco nice reply taking note of all your advices wise words indeed, however I do have a couple of remarks to make.

In our first encounter when she mentioned her boyfriend I just ignored it, the interaction itself went remarkably well it ended with hugs and everything, and the girl herself seemed very receptive to everything I said. This was the reason I proceeded to call her on the excuse of "she getting my number" (which I didn't have the chance to give her on our initial encounter) and to say hello as well, you know in order to not lose "momentum" however, MAYBE I misinterpreted her signals and she was being just "Nice" in a rather provocative way.


Finally if she doesn't have a boyfriend and this is just a petty excuse to blew me off, why asking me for favors for her non-existent boyfriend? She actually told me, "I could give you his phone number, so you talk to him and give him some career advice, even if it's only for 5 minutes" So what if I would have said, OK give his phone or had him call me, if her "boyfriend" would have been made up, wouldn't that be a risky move? Plus 2 weeks dating? There's something fishy going on in there.

Oh and before I forget, here's the kicker she lives in another city close to mine although she visits my city very regularly, so I'm an easy rejection just stop replying to my messages or calls and that's it, she would never see me again we're not in the same social circle, but the MAIN THING here is WHY would she bother CALLING ME again after our first phone conversation, just to tell me this whole story about how her 2 weeks boyfriend needed some career help from me?

I don't know Franco I find that odd there must be something behind this whole thing beyond a simple excuse to reject me, why would a woman who just wants me out of the equation CALL ME? that doesn't make any sense, in my limited experience if a woman wants you out, she just ignores everything you send texts calls and whatnot, but again female mind doesn't make any sense either.

Cheers Bro and thanks again for your insight!

 

[Franco]

Finally if she doesn't have a boyfriend and this is just a petty excuse to blew me off, why asking me for favors for her non-existent boyfriend? She actually told me, "I could give you his phone number, so you talk to him and give him some career advice, even if it's only for 5 minutes" So what if I would have said, OK give his phone or had him call me, if her "boyfriend" would have been made up, wouldn't that be a risky move? Plus 2 weeks dating? There's something fishy going on in there.

Ah, but I never said she doesn't have a boyfriend! As a matter of fact, she probably does if she was willing to give you his number to help him out. Either that, or she's really weird and has a guy that "subs in" as a boyfriend that she can forward phone calls to. But... highly unlikely!

Oh and before I forget, here's the kicker she lives in another city close to mine although she visits my city very regularly, so I'm an easy rejection just stop replying to my messages or calls and that's it, she would never see me again we're not in the same social circle, but the MAIN THING here is WHY would she bother CALLING ME again after our first phone conversation, just to tell me this whole story about how her 2 weeks boyfriend needed some career help from me?

I don't know Franco I find that odd there must be something behind this whole thing beyond a simple excuse to reject me, why would a woman who just wants me out of the equation CALL ME? that doesn't make any sense, in my limited experience if a woman wants you out, she just ignores everything you send texts calls and whatnot, but again female mind doesn't make any sense either.

She's rejecting you as a romantic partner or a mate. But as I mentioned, she's trying to "friend zone" you. She'll get you to do her favors and possibly keep you as an orbiter if you're willing to do these favors for her. If she wanted absolutely nothing to do with you, then she would not respond to your texts or call you.

Women don't necessarily do these things with ill intent. They need the attention and the reassurance that there are always men available for them to have should they want them. But this is never the way they actually think about it -- for all she knows, you could end up being this amazing guy that does all these amazing things for her and ends up being her husband in ever-lasting holy matrimony five years from now. However, any guy with actual experience with women knows this almost never happens, but she doesn't know that. Younger girls tend to do this more often because they feel like they need to keep all of their avenues open in case "they have a change of heart." You'll often find that older women will either just stop responding or politely tell you that they're not interested (in order to not keep leading you on), but you can't always count on this either.

Keep in mind that anything a woman says you should take with a grain of salt; it's their actions that tell you everything you need to know. If she's not willing to see you in a romantic setting immediately, then it means she's not looking for something romantic from you. Now, that could be changed if you happen to get pre-selection and have her see other attractive women around you, but it certainly seems like she's just trying to keep you around at the moment. And if she actually does really love her boyfriend (whatever the situation might be), then you won't be able to do much at this point anyway besides feed her more attention.

- Franco

 

[Marty]

Torrance: I read your report and Franco's responses to it with great interest, and if you don't mind, I'd like to ask Franco a follow-on question based on the discussion above. Dependent upon his reply, it may be helpful for you!

Franco:

Instead of tearing her boyfriend down on the phone (and putting his own status in doubt, as well as framing himself as competing for the boyfriend role) as he did, if Torrance had responded as follows, would there have been any mileage in it?

• Babe: My boyfriend is such a great guy, he's a real gentleman, you should meet him, blah blah blah...
  
  Torrance: Really? "Nice guy", huh?
  
  Babe: Yeah, he's really nice and polite!
  
  Torrance: Good to you?
  
  Babe: Yes, very good!
  
  Torrance: Treats you well?
  
  Babe: Yes!!!
  
  Torrance: Buys you lots of stuff?
  
  Babe: Yes he does as a matter of fact, before he went for his MBA he was an investment banker so he's always been more than generous with me...
  
  Torrance: Hahaha! (chuckles enigmatically)
  
  Babe: What??
  
  Torrance: I wouldn't do that!
  
  Babe: What? Buy me stuff? Be nice to me?
  
  Torrance: Yeah, I don't really do things like that for the women in my life...
  
  Babe: Why not? ... Wait, did you just say "women" ... plural?
  
  Torrance: (ignoring this) Yeah, I'm not real good at relationships, you know. So... how about that coffee tomorrow? Are you game?

I know it's a slim chance, but wouldn't that have shown greater finesse in handling this delicate issue?

Thanks Franco!

-Marty

 

[Franco]

Marty,

Instead of tearing her boyfriend down on the phone (and putting his own status in doubt, as well as framing himself as competing for the boyfriend role) as he did, if Torrance had responded as follows, would there have been any mileage in it?

One of my rules with girls that had boyfriends (or claimed they had boyfriends) was that I had to take those girls to bed there and now. There was no exchanging of phone numbers or "asking for dates" because these girls have an extreme amount of pressure on themselves to save face -- I mean, after all, they ARE in a committed relationship and you are essentially leading them to cheating on their boyfriends.

What this means is that these girls will easily have a change of heart about not going through with it if the emotion isn't there. And what emotion am I talking about? I'm talking about lust. Most girls who have boyfriends that they feel unsatisfied with are extremely horny and fantasize about just being swept off of their feet by some other, "better" man than they are currently with. Of course, they have to suppress these urges to save face in society; the other option for them is to break up with their boyfriend, but a lot of times it is very difficult for a girl to come to that decision even when everyone else knows it's best for her.

So when it comes to trying to bed a girl who has a boyfriend, your best bet is to have sex with her the very first time you meet her. This will be the only time when her emotions are running high and she's being swept away by your manly, sexual appeal. On the other side of the coin, when you ask a girl who has a boyfriend for her number, you're asking her to have some kind of "ongoing affair" with some guy she isn't even sure is better than her boyfriend and ALL behind her boyfriend's back, which risks the status of her relationship. Why would she risk her current exclusive relationship with a guy she isn't even sure has the balls to take her to bed when she wants it?

This is often while you'll rarely ever get dates or meet-ups after you've exchanged phone numbers with a girl who already has a boyfriend. She was simply enamored by you when she first met you, but then since you didn't capitalize on her fleeting emotions and you start texting her and trying to set something up without your sexuality actually being there in PERSON, then she has all the time in the world to think about, "do I even like this guy? What if my boyfriend finds out? I'm a bad person if I do this." If she genuinely thought you were very attractive, she might keep texting you to try to keep you in the outer rim of her life in case things go awry with her current boyfriend, but you'll likely have been boyfriend zoned long before you ever get a chance to do anything with her, which means it will be extremely difficult to bed her by then.

This is why I advise you move extremely quickly with girls who have boyfriends. They are usually the horniest girls, and you'll find that they will move very quickly with you if they know for a fact that you'll close when you two are alone. So to your question about what to say over the phone, I would say to not even try it. All you are doing is putting more investment in her with very little return, and it can dangerously lead you to not stop thinking about her when you should be out meeting more women who actually are available.

- Franco

 

[trashKENNUT]

Franco,

This is why I advise you move extremely quickly with girls who have boyfriends. They are usually the horniest girls, and you'll find that they will move very quickly with you if they know for a fact that you'll close when you two are alone

Which means that morals be thrown out of the window, too, i assume?. Because i had a girl who once wanted that even when she knew that i know about her boyfriend. The thing is why, when what i see is a loving relationship.

Zac

 

[Franco]

Zac,

Which means that morals be thrown out of the window, too, i assume?. Because i had a girl who once wanted that even when she knew that i know about her boyfriend. The thing is why, when what i see is a loving relationship.

Well, this is another reason why I advise to do it immediately. You don't get time to find out much about the boyfriend and start having thoughts about whether it's a stable relationship or not.

Either way, this will always be a moral issue for everyone because of the way it is seen by society. I'm firmly under the belief that, "if a girl is truly in love with you, then she won't cheat on you." Chase has made that statement before as well, so if a girl is open to cheating on her boyfriend, then there is some "lack" of love there between the two, and she's open to the possibility of meeting someone better.

That's the way I see it; not everyone has to agree though. To be honest, I often don't put too much effort into girls who have boyfriends anyway. There are way too many single, attractive women in this world to be dealing with girls who are already taken.

EDIT: Another belief of mine that I'd like to point out is something that Chase has also mentioned before: a girl is never your property. You never "own" her, even after marriage. So in my mind, you can never "steal" a girl from someone because she was never anyone's property to begin with. You need to continue to satisfy your girl in a way that makes her WANT to be with you.

- Franco

 

[trashKENNUT]

Franco,

Well, this is another reason why I advise to do it immediately. You don't get time to find out much about the boyfriend and start having thoughts about whether it's a stable relationship or not.

Firmly correct.

Another belief of mine that I'd like to point out is something that Chase has also mentioned before: a girl is never your property. You never "own" her, even after marriage. So in my mind, you can never "steal" a girl from someone because she was never anyone's property to begin with. You need to continue to satisfy your girl in a way that makes her WANT to be with you.

Reality isn't so ideal for ppl to accept but entitlement makes me people feel safe even if it's wrong to begin with.

Thanks,
Zac

 

[torrancea88]

So new developments on the situation described in the first post of this case, so I gave it another shot today and I decided to go with some unorthodox text messages to approach her again, my text went like this.

ME: Hi (insert her name) what are you doing?
ME: I was thinking of you

HER: Hi Torrance!! (Not my name) Thanks for thinking of me!! How was Harvard (Not my college) Today?

ME: You're welcome I thought of u all the time, my day was nice (I very briefly described my day) and then returned her the question.

After this as of now silence...

What do you think, this is strange my poor and overly optimistic assessment is she is INTO ME however she's still not sure about going ahead with it for real, hence her hesitations. WHAT DO YOU THINK?

 

[torrancea88]

BREAKING NEWS regarding the case

So, this girl likes to play games but I really don't care since I had already buried her, so I can afford to play her childish manipulative games without an emotional baggage.

So three hours later she replies to my last message like this:

"I'm glad that your day was great. it was nice meeting you Sergio, but I do have a boyfriend (This is the two weeks relationship) and I'm clarifying that our texting is just as friends, I hope you understand out of means of respect (sic) Thanks for the understanding! Have a wonderful week"

So here comes my reply:

"Oh ok, but I'm kind of confused about your message, what made you think I was interested in you in that way? I think you are misreading my behavior, I just want to make a friend that's all, I don't even know you, why would I like you, just because you're very pretty? That's not me. Having said that have a great week too, sweet dreams"

HER REPLY:

" I'm sorry Torrance, forgive me please? You're a great friend of mine! thank you for being so kind, sweet dreams to you as well"!


So, I don't know what to make of this to be honest I just texted this girl today like a shot in the dark I was almost certain she wasn't going to reply but she did as I reflected on my last post, however I do not know what to make of this situation, my hypothesis is that as every pretty woman she wants to keep me around like a back up plan you know "just in case" her two weeks boyfriend doesn't turn out to be as good as she thinks, or simply because she got bored. I really couldn't care less, I'm playing the game I'm talking to a whole bunch of different women going out on dates, and learning a lot everyday, so whatever happens with this I don't care.

However I would like some advice regarding this situation you know I don't have any hopes on this woman so let's make this an experiment, should I keep communicating with her, and if so what kind of things should I talk about with her, should I continue building rapport or sexual tension, what would some other members of the community do, specially those with much more expertise? The "move on to next one" part don't mind about that,because that's what I'm doing , but let's play games with this little lady anyhow.

See you guys

 

[Franco]

torrance,

However I would like some advice regarding this situation you know I don't have any hopes on this woman so let's make this an experiment, should I keep communicating with her, and if so what kind of things should I talk about with her, should I continue building rapport or sexual tension, what would some other members of the community do, specially those with much more expertise?

I think she's made it pretty clear that she doesn't want you trying to hit on her anymore. If you do, it's going to creep her out. Your best bet from here would just be to leave the situation alone and go out and meet other women. If things suddenly go awry with her boyfriend and she has any interest in you, she might contact you in the future.

There's really no other experiment to be had here other than cutting contact to see if she contacts you if things don't work out with her "two-week" boyfriend. That will give you the most information about situation.

- Franco

 

[Marty]

Franco:

One of my rules with girls that had boyfriends (or claimed they had boyfriends) was that I had to take those girls to bed there and now.

So when it comes to trying to bed a girl who has a boyfriend, your best bet is to have sex with her the very first time you meet her.

This is a great rule. The fact that I've learned what not to do the hard way means I am that much more receptive to the lesson you're teaching me. Thank you!

What this means is that these girls will easily have a change of heart about not going through with it if the emotion isn't there. And what emotion am I talking about? I'm talking about lust.

This is a great explanation and very memorable.

I'm firmly under the belief that, "if a girl is truly in love with you, then she won't cheat on you." Chase has made that statement before as well, so if a girl is open to cheating on her boyfriend, then there is some "lack" of love there between the two, and she's open to the possibility of meeting someone better.

Yeah, I agree with this, I already realized it a month or two back. The same time I started to learn the hard way how not to fuck things up!

Another belief of mine that I'd like to point out is something that Chase has also mentioned before: a girl is never your property. You never "own" her, even after marriage. So in my mind, you can never "steal" a girl from someone because she was never anyone's property to begin with. You need to continue to satisfy your girl in a way that makes her WANT to be with you.

I agree with this belief 100% as well. Fits neatly with my own philosophy.

To be honest, I often don't put too much effort into girls who have boyfriends anyway. There are way too many single, attractive women in this world to be dealing with girls who are already taken.

This is the only bit I'm still skeptical of... I have a lingering belief (not grounded in any real evidence) that an attached girl would be less likely to try to drag a man into a relationship, while a single girl might be less accepting of a casual fling. I think I need to rid myself of it once and for all though—it's probably baloney. Like Chase says, suspend your disbelief and take your teachers' word for it, until you either agree or know better through your own experience!

-Marty

 

[torrancea88]

Thanks Franco no more exchanges with this woman then, right on, see you!

 

[torrancea88]

Well, I caved in to the temptation and I kept texting her, and every time I did there was always a reply and no any reply she always was "super happy to hear from me" always trying to continue the conversation asking me how I was and whatnot. In addition, lately because apparently she liked what I texted her a lot, she started calling me her "angel" and now that's all she calls me, any message I send her with certain "romantic" content in it, never bluntly romantic just hinting certain romanticism, she would be like "YOU MADE MY NIGHT WITH THAT MESSAGE" "YOU'RE SUCH AN ANGEL" this is quite puzzling, don't you think?

Cheers!