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Calibration

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Nov 21, 2021
Messages
337
I just got back home from an instant date that that lasted for nearly 4 hours after finishing work. I'm a bit exhausted to write all the details of the date but I thought I'll write before I forget tomorrow.

Approach:
Was still recovering from the Sunday super drunk girl's date and was not really interested in approaching but my muscle memory of approaching has become so strong that I just can't resist approaching. Anyway, walking back from work I notice a chic sitting in the square looking at her phone. There were ppl around her and I hesitated since I was not feeling the best, didn't have enough momentum to open direct. Just walked past her to see if I can pick something that will help in opening and she was wearing a T-Shirt that said "POOR OLD ENGLAND". Thought I can use that to open and opened with "Hello".. she looks at me and I say "Quote on your shirt is super funny.." and started laughing. Maybe I exaggerated my laughter a bit but it worked. Looked like all she wanted was someone to talk to and she jumped right into a conversation that lasted nearly 45 mins after I sat next to her soon after. She was from England and spoke very posh British English (Think of Sir David Attenborough). She said she was from Brighton in England and her accent was next best to place where David Attenborough comes from. I have a thing for posh British accent, although I find English girls super-bitchy but to my surprise this chic was super feminine. She was not the German 9s and 10s that I banged the last couple of times. She was super cute facially but not as shapely as the ones I normally go for but her accent and her cute face made me stay. We talked just about everything, I was not really focused tbh. So, was just free-styling except that there was a lot of flirting and physical escalation. We spoke about alcohol, TV shows, hobbies and a whole lot of other things with lot of flirting, teasing, challenging, physical escalation etc. Suddenly, it striked to me that I'm free-styling and slowly amped up my game with more qualification, role-play etc and thought of bouncing.

Bounce 1:
I suggest we grab a coffee and get up from there. She was super-enthusiastic to join me. I suggested Starbucks and she says, can we find something more decent, teasing me and I qualify her for that and say, I really like confident girls like you who ask what they want. I'm glad you asked and luckily we were very close to Hilton hotel and they have a very classy restaurant also open for outsiders. We walk there but we have a deserted walkway that leads there and she closes off suddenly. I paced her and say "You must be thinking, where is he taking me? This place looks so dodgy. Oh why didn't I just agree to go to Starbucks. I must be risking. Oh god! I know him for less than an hour and he is taking me somewhere which is new to me and how can I trust him"...laughing while saying all this and she cracks up. She said, exactly what I'm thinking. On a scale of 10, my suspicion is at an 8 right now. Then I tease her some more saying "It was your mistake to trust me and not agree to go to Starbucks. Only lucky thing is, you're cute. So, you're safe" and she blushes. Then she feels a bit more comfortable. As we approach Hilton, she relaxes and delighted at the classy ambience. She says, just cos I'm English doesn't mean that I'm a basic bitch. I have standards. I tease her saying, actually if I didn't notice your shirt first but your face, I'd have thought the same. She asks what? I say, Resting bitch face. She laughs again and says, Really? no wonder not a lot of guys approach me. In fact, sales people and charity guys also don't approach me, so sad.

We ordered tea and sat in front of a romantic fire place. I struggled to get to sex talk this time but somehow finally introduced after almost 1.5 hrs after meeting her. She was intrigued by everything I was saying but she was super nervous to react to any of that. So, I didn't go all out and from Teevster's compilation of sex talk which @POB shared with me a few weeks ago, I talked only the basic topics - secret society, mental G-Spot and a couple more while also mixing social talking in between. I perhaps again did a mistake of seeding the pull late - remembered what @Will_V had mentioned but it was too late. It had been almost 2 hrs since we met when I seeded saying we go back to my place to dance. She liked dancing, so, that was not a concern. She outright refused. She wasn't someone who didn't get the plausible deniability but was very aware what that meant. Then I thought I should add comfort and started talking about her family and my family etc but we already had a lot of comfort right from the beginning, anyway. She was just super-nervous to come back to mine. Then I suggested we get espresso martini and she liked the idea but for some reason said, she doesn't want to do that now and wants to do it the next time we meet. I thought I should change the venue and we quickly pay up and suggest we go for a walk. She agreed.

Bounce 2:
As we head out, we take a different route which was unfortunately even more deserted than the one which we took to get there. She again closes up. I again do the same routine of pacing and teased her saying, your suspicion meter must be 10/10 this time and she nods but doesn't laugh this time. She looks super nervous. So, I quickly walk her to a place where there are more people and she slowly opens up but now she says, she really wants to go back since she wants to do groceries and cook. I change the topic and pace her again. I say, I understand why you're so suspicious and I contrast with a lot of stories about how guys make it hard for women and she slowly opens up. Then we stop and talk for nearly 30 mins and she says, not all guys are like you unfortunately. Then again I suggest we go back to mine and chill for sometime. She doesn't agree and now she starts walking fast. I pull her arm and tease her that I'll put a leash on her or carry in my bag like a cute puppy. She was laughing and enjoying but she just didn't want to come to my place. She openly said, I know you're doing your best to make me feel comfortable but I'm inherently a suspicious person and I'd be suspicious of anyone and in fact I'm less suspicious of you compared to others but still it can't fall below a 3 on a scale of 10 and if I have to come to your place, probably the pointer will go beyond 10 and break the scale. I won't come at least today. I walk another 15 mins with her to the super-market which was on my way home. I stop outside the super market and we talk for nearly 10 mins and jokingly say, I'm not sure if I want to contact you cos you're being so suspicious of me but she says she wants to see me again. By now, there was no limit to physical escalation, I was manhandling her like a little kid, pushing her to the lamp post while walking, tickling her, hugging her etc and also there was a lot of sexual tension both looking deep into each other's eyes for brief intervals every now and then and just in general the sexual tension was intense but still she has her guard up to come back to mine. Finally, I give in and take her number. She double checks after she enters the number and we talk for a couple more mins and I leave.

Somehow, I have a strong intuition that it's a done deal. She was a lot more suspicious/hesitant/nervous etc than the failed bounce attempt I had with the French girl last week. So, its very very unlikely I'm going to see her again.

Anyway, yesterday I went through a lot of articles from what @Chase shared and most of those articles suggested that if the sale is not closed when you have the customer, its very likely it falls through. This one looks like a failed sale. I remembered this article in particular : With Girls, Tomorrow Isn't Promised and I tried my best but I couldn't do anything. When I read some of the FRs and articles, it doesn't seem like its too hard to bounce with some plausible deniability. However, in reality it seems to be a lot different or is bouncing from day game a lot harder than night game? or am I missing something in terms of comfort or something else? Is there a process you guys follow to bounce home? Am I missing that? I don't really know.
 
you miss 100% of the shots you don't take

Will_V

Chieftan
Staff member
tribal-elder
Joined
Jan 24, 2021
Messages
2,105
First of all, always set up the next date in detail if you aren't going to pull. Whether it's the initial approach or (especially) on a date that you can't pull.

Sounds like there was a bit of a clash here of perspective between you two that you didn't deal with (or at least not fast enough). At the beginning, you struggled with dominance and assertiveness, making her feel confused and uncertain. By the time you sorted that out (with the frame of easygoing dominance and playfulness at the end), things had gone on for too long, and there were too many missed beats.

The thing of not going to Starbucks, I would at least have teased her a bit about it. In a way it's frame-grabbing on her part (take me somewhere decent please, I'm worth all that .. ) so you have to at least put her in her place a little bit. After all, you suggested it so obviously it's a place you like to go, and she basically called it crap.

I think this lack of assertiveness created a general uncertainty on her part - who is this guy, why is he taking me to some upper class joint after I basically insulted him about his choice of venue, is he trying to manipulate me, what's going to be expected at the end, how do we even know eachother, etc etc. Whereas if you had started teasing her and being more playful and dominant right off the bat, she would immediately sense 'ok, he's the bad boy who doesn't give a fuck, I'm the upper class girl, this is actually kind of exciting'. The fact that you established that toward the end is why she started trusting you, as she said, more than the other guys (very few guys in her posh life would ever be confident enough to treat her like that), but already you had shown a lot of inability to manage frame and she wasn't feeling secure.

In my opinion the overall issue here was lack of frame control throughout:

- Talked too long at the start about random stuff (her: doesn't he have better things to do, does he just like talking?)
- Didn't deal with her jab at starbucks (her: is he easily embarrassed/weak?)
- Struggled to get sexual (her: where is this going, why are we here? [1.5 hours later] Ooh now he's talking about sex)
- Went waaaaaaaay too long on the date until everyone got burned out (her: doesn't he have better things to do? Friends, work? I'm tired/got things to do)
- Pushed too hard at the end (her: standing outside the supermarket trying to convince me isn't sexy, I'm tired and worn out anyway)

Essentially, you lagged behind the beat and nobody got no satisfaction.

The important thing to realize is that she did warm to you and get turned on at the end by your confidence, just by then things were out of control. So the lesson is to create that playful, dominant, assertive frame faster and stronger next time.

I suggest you plan the structure of your approaches/dates to prevent things getting out of hand - for example (this is my basic structure):

- No more than 15-20 minutes max from approach to insta-date/number close
- No more than 1/2 hour into date that you start seeding the pull ('I have xyz you should come over sometime', start listening for objections and preparing frames as you escalate sexually)
- Start touching and ramping up sexual tension immediately throughout the date (not at the end or after 1.5 hours)
- No more than 1 hour or so into the date you pull.

And also, this is important, generally just try to express yourself more freely as a man to a woman, if she says something annoying or dumb, make fun of her, poke her until she rolls over etc. Treat her like you already banged and you're taking her somewhere to replenish her energy - you're not trying to sell her anything, convince her of anything, present any front to her, do some magic spell on her, you're just enjoying downtime with her as you both get ready for another round, and you expect her to pretty much comply to everything. I find it helpful to think of a girl I'm on a date with as being another incarnation of the last girl I banged, so in a way it's our second time.

It's her submission to that kind of easygoing, confident dominance that creates all the necessary trust, comfort and sexual context in her mind that she later doesn't even question why you are going home together, it all just seems so perfectly natural.
 

Calibration

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Nov 21, 2021
Messages
337
First of all, always set up the next date in detail if you aren't going to pull. Whether it's the initial approach or (especially) on a date that you can't pull.

Sounds like there was a bit of a clash here of perspective between you two that you didn't deal with (or at least not fast enough). At the beginning, you struggled with dominance and assertiveness, making her feel confused and uncertain. By the time you sorted that out (with the frame of easygoing dominance and playfulness at the end), things had gone on for too long, and there were too many missed beats.

The thing of not going to Starbucks, I would at least have teased her a bit about it. In a way it's frame-grabbing on her part (take me somewhere decent please, I'm worth all that .. ) so you have to at least put her in her place a little bit. After all, you suggested it so obviously it's a place you like to go, and she basically called it crap.

I think this lack of assertiveness created a general uncertainty on her part - who is this guy, why is he taking me to some upper class joint after I basically insulted him about his choice of venue, is he trying to manipulate me, what's going to be expected at the end, how do we even know eachother, etc etc. Whereas if you had started teasing her and being more playful and dominant right off the bat, she would immediately sense 'ok, he's the bad boy who doesn't give a fuck, I'm the upper class girl, this is actually kind of exciting'. The fact that you established that toward the end is why she started trusting you, as she said, more than the other guys (very few guys in her posh life would ever be confident enough to treat her like that), but already you had shown a lot of inability to manage frame and she wasn't feeling secure.

In my opinion the overall issue here was lack of frame control throughout:

- Talked too long at the start about random stuff (her: doesn't he have better things to do, does he just like talking?)
- Didn't deal with her jab at starbucks (her: is he easily embarrassed/weak?)
- Struggled to get sexual (her: where is this going, why are we here? [1.5 hours later] Ooh now he's talking about sex)
- Went waaaaaaaay too long on the date until everyone got burned out (her: doesn't he have better things to do? Friends, work? I'm tired/got things to do)
- Pushed too hard at the end (her: standing outside the supermarket trying to convince me isn't sexy, I'm tired and worn out anyway)

Essentially, you lagged behind the beat and nobody got no satisfaction.

The important thing to realize is that she did warm to you and get turned on at the end by your confidence, just by then things were out of control. So the lesson is to create that playful, dominant, assertive frame faster and stronger next time.

I suggest you plan the structure of your approaches/dates to prevent things getting out of hand - for example (this is my basic structure):

- No more than 15-20 minutes max from approach to insta-date/number close
- No more than 1/2 hour into date that you start seeding the pull ('I have xyz you should come over sometime', start listening for objections and preparing frames as you escalate sexually)
This is what I miss and now I get how to seed. I always was going hard on the seed itself. For ex: let's go to my place and dance instead of, we should dance at my place sometime.
- Start touching and ramping up sexual tension immediately throughout the date (not at the end or after 1.5 hours)
- No more than 1 hour or so into the date you pull.

And also, this is important, generally just try to express yourself more freely as a man to a woman, if she says something annoying or dumb, make fun of her, poke her until she rolls over etc. Treat her like you already banged and you're taking her somewhere to replenish her energy - you're not trying to sell her anything, convince her of anything, present any front to her, do some magic spell on her, you're just enjoying downtime with her as you both get ready for another round, and you expect her to pretty much comply to everything. I find it helpful to think of a girl I'm on a date with as being another incarnation of the last girl I banged, so in a way it's our second time.

It's her submission to that kind of easygoing, confident dominance that creates all the necessary trust, comfort and sexual context in her mind that she later doesn't even question why you are going home together, it all just seems so perfectly natural.
Thanks @Will_V . Your analysis is on point. She sensed a lack of assertiveness on my end. When we were sitting at the square, a drunk old man comes and sits next to us and chats us up. He was very friendly although he was super drunk. I didn't shut him down right away. I was just being a bit polite which I normally am towards older people. I thought it doesn't hurt to chat for a few mins and then he went on and on for 3-4 mins and then I said "We were in the middle of a a deep conversation. Nice meeting you anyway". He offers to fist bump, I do it once and he insists I do it again and I say no, it's done, smile and return to the conversation. She says, wow you have a lot of patience. Not sure if she really meant that but I think things got shaky because of this as well.

BTW, I read somewhere that it takes 7 hours to seduce a girl to bed since you meet her but doesn't seem so?

You mentioned inconsistency in the frame. Don't you think it's a kind of fractionation? Like from playful - serious - playful?
 
Last edited:

Calibration

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Nov 21, 2021
Messages
337
I find it helpful to think of a girl I'm on a date with as being another incarnation of the last girl I banged, so in a way it's our second time.
I liked this mindset.. Feels more comfortable being around a new person.
 
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