FU Missed the right window, she got defensive

[Sven]

My first post here. Right away: I am not a native english speaker.
I fucked up, and I just want to write it off my soul. I will gladly take any advice and read it. Most advices will probably be to move on and meet other girls. I know it, yet I am fine if you tell me. I guess it is better than silently hoping that someone will get my hopes up and tell me that everything is going to be alright. To the story:

Last thursday, a friend of mine introduced me to a girl and we went to play billard. I was a bit mean to that girl, but we got along very well. We had so much stuff to talk about. After we finished playing billard, the three of us went to my appartment to play some Wii U (she is a gamer). My appartment is in such a way that we have to sit or lay on my bed to play. I was inspired by that seduction pad article, so that is how my room is set up. The girl was lying next to me and playing. We talked with our faces about 10 cm (4 inches) from each others and I felt close. When she was closing her eyes because of a game, my friend made a heartsign with his hands, showing me that she really likes me. But as we were not alone, I didn't move any further. Also, I know she had a boyfriend in a long distance relationship whom she sees about every six months.

It got late and they left. I added her on facebook, but ignored her till two days later. Then we started writing, and we wrote a lot. She picked up the conversation most of the time after we stopped writing. She wanted to play that game again, so she came over to my house two days ago at 7pm. To make it short: I ended up giving her a massage. She didn't care about the game anymore, she was just lying there enjoying while I was actually no more than caressing her hair and her back + arms. She even said that she would like to undress because of that massage. But I did not move further. She left a 4:30 in the morning and left with a nice hug.
I didn't move further because I was kinda thinking that she had to make up her mind first whether she wants all that. I thought I had to give her time. I knew I should have moved right then. But I didn't.

Well, she kind of invited herself in again earlier tonight at 7pm (it is 10:30 here now in case you wonder). This time I was planning on moving further. But she didn't have much time. She had to leave at half past eight. So I moved fast. I talked with her for bit, afterwards she played that game she loved so much. I started caressing her back and started massaging her. As I started massaging she said "Oh, I love you", but in a rather "general" way. Then she got all defensive. I made her lie down on her chest, opened her hair and started caressing her hair and back. She was not enjoying it as much this time. She asked "Are you flirting with me or do you just like to caress people". I answered "Both". Soon she wanted me to play that Wii U game. Well I sucked because I couldn't concentrate. She didn't appreciate me caressing her anymore. Half an hour later she had to leave. I gave her a good bye hug. She made sure I did not do more. Then she ran to catch her train.

Tomorrow, she will be leaving town for ten days. Even though I actually know I did everything wrong starting from when I didn't move further 2 days ago, I am very disappointed now.
I very rarely meet a girl that I like that much.

Thank you for reading. Any comment is welcome, even on the style of my report. I am not used to writing on forums.

Sven

 

[Rtodd201]

Sven,

Thanks for your honesty on the post. I really related to where you were coming from. My first post was the same way; I just had to get it out into the ether and release it.

The bad news is this one is probably not going to happen. If I had to estimate your odds at ending up with this girl I'd say less than 20-1 (95%+ fail rate).

There are however a lot of positive things to take away:

1. Despite your "mean" attitude she liked talking to you and got along with you.

2. So much so that she made an excuse to come over to your place alone. On multiple occasions.

She was sending you a clear message, "turn me on enough so I can cheat on my boyfriend and fuck YOU Sven"

Now the bad stuff and I don't like sugarcoating if I sound harsh btw. I don't believe it helps people get to where they want to go, and you're obviously being proactive by coming on this site:

- The major vibe I got from your interactions with her alone (when you should have been sexing her) was creepiness. The whole massage thing is cool and all but be honest with yourself; you offered her a massage so you could feel her body. She knew it, you knew it and the baby jesus knows it too. Which speaks directly to how much she wanted to be with you. Call me old fashioned but IDK if I'd be cool with my girlfriend going to some random dudes house getting intimate massages and shit til 4 a.m. She was either really horny or doesn't respect him or the relationship very much(or maybe they have an open, don't ask/don't tell situation. You never know.) But unless the girl is super confident she's not going to initiate things with you.

Besides making herself available FOR THE WHOLE NIGHT, she threw this little gem out when you had your hands all over her:

she was just lying there enjoying while I was actually no more than caressing her hair and her back + arms. She even said that she would like to undress

That was basically a neon sign on her head that read, "I am ready for the sex"

- Which leads to the first big problem you ran into which was missing an escalation window. In your case the window was the size of Detroit. She wanted your dick and ended up with a massage and a hug. When this happens women feel super deflated and their excitement for a man goes into the shitter. This is usually the end of the story for most guys. Not many people (me included) have bounced back from something like this.

- But then she gave you another shot! Which IMO is fucking crazy(says good things about your first impression). In her mind, on some level she assumed you would have realized your mistake and closed the deal immediately the second time. She put you on the clock with the half past eight thing. All she wanted you to do was rip her clothes off and take her right where she stood. Literally all you had to do was pull her into you and start making out the second you opened the door to let her in and she would have gone with it. It sounds like she's sexually frustrated (who wouldn't be with a bf you see twice a year, that relationship is bullshit) and just needed the dick.

Chase had a good point when he said you have to worry about your happiness and the happiness of the girl instead of some dude you don't even know. Think about it, do you think he's only having sex twice a year and being faithful the rest of the time?

Now to circle back, instead of escalating with her you launched back into the massage thing which started to creep her out.

As I started massaging she said "Oh, I love you", but in a rather "general" way. Then she got all defensive. I made her lie down on her chest, opened her hair and started caressing her hair and back. She was not enjoying it as much this time. She asked "Are you flirting with me or do you just like to caress people". I answered "Both".

When you tried to "pick up where you left off" with the massage she started to feel awkward. She spit out the, "Oh, I love you" thing which felt "fake" because it was. She was stalling and getting more uncomfortable. Then you said you "made" her lie down so you could massage her in a sexual way again. At this point the creepiness was oozing out of you en masse. When she asked the flirting or caress people question she probably wondered if you might be like this with everyone (not a good thing) or if this was how you communicate that you want to have sex with someone. At this point it was a loaded question; both answers were bad because either you don't go after things you want or you've got a massage fetish.

And you picked "Both'

Soon she wanted me to play that Wii U game.......She didn't appreciate me caressing her anymore. Half an hour later she had to leave. I gave her a good bye hug. She made sure I did not do more. Then she ran to catch her train.

Eject button pushed.

The major thing I would take away from the last time you saw her is learning to get better calibrated to what's going on with her and working within those opportunities to get what you want. With a little more experience you'll be able to see where you stand a lot clearer and hopefully not miss another escalation window with someone you really like.

Not to praise the guy too much but Chase had a great quote about creepiness and guys. The gist of it is every guy and I mean EVERY guy if they're really trying at this thing is going to be a little creepy at one point or another. And it never goes away. If you get to a point where you have some skill with women, some are going to find you really creepy because your sexual energy follows you around like a shadow. So don't freak out too much about how you came off to this girl. It'll make you laugh one day, we all have MANY moments we'd like to take back.

Keep at it,

Rocco

 

[Sven]

Hi Rocco,

thanks for your post. It made me rethink my approach.
Unfortunately I didn't end up with her, I am friendzoned -.- But I go out a lot. I have not yet had success because I am a bloody beginner, but at least I see other girls and so I don't feel like she was the only girl and stuff.

Sven