Molding new relationships after sex - lost control?

[Tkr]

Hey everybody,

New level new world of problems.
GC advocates moving fast to sex because (among many other reasons) it gives you the chance to define your new sexual relationships.
I learned a hard lesson today in that managing relationships isn't as easy as I thought it'd be.
Now that I feel that I've cracked my own code and that getting new girls in bed is easy, I've got to learn how to define these new relationships

After a very smooth first date that ended with lots of good sex, I met up with this girl again for some dinner and even though she implied that she wants a friends with benefits set up (just like I do) I've found that the power dynamic seems to have shifted. I'm shocked because whereas I thought I had this under control things switched almost effortlessly and now that I'm not in control I simply don't know the right way to handle it. I don't feel like my usual self and its very uncomfortable, almost like I'm making backwards progress.

I have no real life mentors on this and the best advice I could get was from Chase's article on the 8 rules of FWB. The most important rule is that you bang every time you meet up. Tonight as we got to my apartment she denied going in with me because she had to wake up for class early the next morning and it was midnight. No big deal, we can always fuck some other time, but because I was aware of this important rule I made a big deal out of it. I did a good job of making it seem like I was enjoying myself with the persuasive banter (we really were), but the reality is that I lost it and came off a good bit needy? I then broke another rule by offering to let her sleep over since I don't even believe in that rule anyway.

I'm freaking out about this because I know I have 0 experience with relationships and it seemed really obvious that the power dynamic shifted. Whereas in the first date it was mostly her talking, she's unusually quiet (though in a sweetly submissive way) and now I find myself doing most the talking. Totally different from a first date, in a very strange uncertain way. It seems that now that sex is out of the way, she's taking advantage of this and making me invest more and more.

Just like some girls make the poor dude wait until the 3rd date or more, it seems like she went for the quick sex FWB rope-him-in strategy, and I've never coped with that.

With a big picture look I shouldn't be fretting about this because we're both here for no more than 3 months and I'm still getting dates with new girls each week, but the fact that I'm not in control of this is a serious cause for concern. I think the multiple girlfriends open relationship set-up suits my personality and desires best, and I'd be happy taking this particular girl as a girlfriend, but I need to know how to do it on my terms.

Does anybody have a good baseline strategy for how to handle women after you've had sex with them?

Or, in this case, after being denied sex despite persisting hard for it, how should I handle the situation. I basically told her that I'm stubborn too and need to do things my way, and if my way doesn't seem like a good idea to her we have a problem. She insisted that she'd rather go home and sleep, so I don't even think I said good night, I just walked off. It felt like the right thing to do, but now do I punish her by withholding all attention for a solid week or do I just hit her up when I get back Monday and tell her to come over and cook dinner?

I know I've mishandled the situation, but I have to learn the right way of doing this because it's so unlike me to lose it this way and it doesn't result in me getting what I want either. Here is the LR for anybody interested. I never got any feedback on it but it was a pretty flawless date so maybe that's why? It was my first off a 1st-date so I'd love to hear something about it. https://boards.girlschase.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7750

Many thanks,
- TR

 

[Franco]

Tkr,

There's definitely a few things that could have happened here, and one particular thing caught my attention:

After a very smooth first date that ended with lots of good sex, I met up with this girl again for some dinner and even though she implied that she wants a friends with benefits set up (just like I do)

My first thought was, "why did you meet up with her for dinner if all you wanted was a FWB relationship?" It sounds to me like this might have confused her and made her worry that you wanted something more (when it's not what she wants), so she had to come out and tell you. A FWB relationship does absolutely ZERO boyfriend/girlfriend type of things -- the second you start doing something that seems like a date or a "romantic" outing, then the expectations you are communicating shift entirely.

The only kind of thing I might do with a FWB is cook some food together at my place or her place, but it's never anything overly romantic or a big deal. It's just simply an activity to do since we're both likely to get hungry at some point.

The other possibility is that the sex might not be that great for her. You didn't really mention anything about giving her powerful orgasms, but I don't want to assume you didn't just because you didn't mention it. Generally if a girl feels like the sex was absolutely mind-blowing, and she feels like there will be very few consequences for engaging in it again, she'll do everything in her power to see you and have sex with you during the week. At least this is from my experience, anyway.

So anyway, I think those are the first two things to consider: (A) did you set incorrect expectations after sex? Or (B) did you not give her amazing sex? Or possibly both. I would think these over and see if this makes sense based on her vibe.

- Franco

 

[Tkr]

Hey Franco,

The only kind of thing I might do with a FWB is cook some food together at my place or her place, but it's never anything overly romantic or a big deal. It's just simply an activity to do since we're both likely to get hungry at some point.

Yeah, that's the kind of vibe I was going for. I don't (didn't...) see anything wrong with grabbing some food at this fast food joint I like to go to before we get down to it, but I'm sure that if I just went for dinner at my place everything would have been alright.

Generally if a girl feels like the sex was absolutely mind-blowing, and she feels like there will be very few consequences for engaging in it again, she'll do everything in her power to see you and have sex with you during the week. At least this is from my experience, anyway.

I'm not too sure on how great it was for her because she was a quiet type. I'm used to girls screaming relentlessly and telling me later they can't help it but this girl was unusually quiet. I want to think that she did cum a few times because I saw it all over her pussy when I got out, but I don't have a lot of experience with quiet girls so I can't be too confident about it. I just know that we had a good time and went long and hard to the point where we were bathed in sweat and had to take a shower.

think these over and see if this makes sense based on her vibe

The whole thing threw me off because she gave me the "I'm going home" statement out of the blue as we reached my apartment, whereas she explicitly told me before we met up again that she "definitely wanted to see me" before I left for my trip. So when she didn't come up with me I didn't know what to do. It's easy to make excuses for her (she has to get up very early, doesn't skip class whimsically like I do, and had a cough) but it left me confused and I don't like making excuses.

She told me very matter-of-fact that we would meet up again this next week, and this time since she already told me how much she likes to cook we're just going to buy some groceries and I'll have her cook dinner.

I like the idea of grabbing a quick bite with my girl before we go home and do what we do, and I will certainly do what I want, but if I learned anything from this it's that the first few times after the original bang it has to be a meal at my place or not at all. I'm not worried about setting the wrong expectations with her because we're both in this country for 3 months and a serious relationship is very obviously out of the question, but I'm not exactly setting ANY expectations either (at least consciously) so that's what I'm trying to understand and learn to set right.

Thanks for the response Franco. Could you give some other examples of what setting the wrong expectations look like? I'm certainly not clueless but I also don't have a specific game plan or prior experience so letting the pieces fall how they may is just inviting unexpected mistakes to muddy the water.

- TR

 

[Franco]

Tkr,

The whole thing threw me off because she gave me the "I'm going home" statement out of the blue as we reached my apartment, whereas she explicitly told me before we met up again that she "definitely wanted to see me" before I left for my trip. So when she didn't come up with me I didn't know what to do. It's easy to make excuses for her (she has to get up very early, doesn't skip class whimsically like I do, and had a cough) but it left me confused and I don't like making excuses.

She told me very matter-of-fact that we would meet up again this next week, and this time since she already told me how much she likes to cook we're just going to buy some groceries and I'll have her cook dinner.

Well, it sounds like you might have had a bit of an outlier situation then with her declining to come in again that one night. It is very possible that she had some very important things to do and that she knew sleeping over would prevent her from getting those things done. Based on the above statements, it sounds like she still really wants to see you, so you probably don't have too much to worry about. I would avoid any of the needy behavior, of course. If a girl suddenly doesn't want to sleep with you, it is either because of the above (outlier) situation over which you have no control, or it is a situation where you already messed things up anyway, and of which you have no control. In either scenario, you aren't control, and anything you attempt to do to try to get your way will just sink you further into the hole.

Could you give some other examples of what setting the wrong expectations look like? I'm certainly not clueless but I also don't have a specific game plan or prior experience so letting the pieces fall how they may is just inviting unexpected mistakes to muddy the water.

You always have to have a goal with a girl in mind from the get-go, otherwise, you can't set the correct expectations because you don't know what you want the outcome to be. For this specific girl, you knew you wanted this to be a FWB/casual relationship type of thing, so setting the wrong expectations would be doing things like inviting her out on multiple dates, buying her gifts, telling her you love her, etc. Chase also mentions not letting her sleep over at your place, which is probably a good rule. Also, I never go out anywhere with a FWB -- it's just directly to one of our places for sex, some laughs, possibly some drinks/food, and that's about it. It's pretty straightforward for the most part. Generally things only get tricky when the girl starts pushing for something more and making comments about the future between you two, and then you have remain calm and address her questions/concerns with appropriate answers.

However, in your scenario, it sounds like the girl knows the ropes for this one and understands that she wants it to be casual, so it plays into your hands easily if you want the same thing; from there, it's your job to just communicate that you understand what it is by not doing things that make her feel like maybe you don't understand (such as taking her out to dinner).

- Franco

 

[Tkr]

Franco,
Sounds like the principle is to keep it all about sex. I get it now, it's all much clearer now. Keep it simple.

A quick question/clarification on the dinner thing:

I think you got the idea that I took her out to dinner and paid for it like a boyfriend would. I always split the check and it happens naturally, the only times I remember trying to pay for the whole thing the girl would get visibly uncomfortable and I've had some even pay the whole thing themselves before I could even look at the bill. Is this still a bad idea for a FWB relationship? I'd like to do it anyway but the impression you're giving me is that getting food should ALWAYS be pick-up/delivery.

And a last note about staying over:

If you've been seeing a girl on a semi-regular basis for a while, would you EVER let her stay over a night? Like say it's a Friday and you don't have to get up Saturday and neither does she and you'd like to fuck some more in the morning. If you hold a strong frame I wouldn't think it'd matter but I don't know, it also sounds like a recipe for drama down the road. I'm just asking because my classes don't start till the afternoon so it's very tempting for me to let a girl stay over once a week and then do that with multiple girls to fill up my schedule.

I want to say that holding a strong frame is the key to getting away with whatever kind of relationships you want, though one obviously has to put in the work and screw things up a few times before they get there. Even now, that you know exactly what you're doing, would you agree and say that sometimes you can break these rules and do things your way, or are these rules hard and fast no matter how experienced you are?

Thanks a ton,
- TR

 

[Franco]

Tkr,

I think you got the idea that I took her out to dinner and paid for it like a boyfriend would. I always split the check and it happens naturally, the only times I remember trying to pay for the whole thing the girl would get visibly uncomfortable and I've had some even pay the whole thing themselves before I could even look at the bill. Is this still a bad idea for a FWB relationship? I'd like to do it anyway but the impression you're giving me is that getting food should ALWAYS be pick-up/delivery.

Actually, it kind of is a bad idea. Doesn't matter how you go about it or how trivial it may seem to you.

Now, one thing you CAN do is decide to go out and grab some food in between rounds of sex. That's not so bad as it probably just seems "spontaneous" and random rather than "planned." If anything, maybe that's more of the point that I'm trying to get at: nothing you do with a FWB (besides sex) should feel planned. Boyfriends plan things for their girlfriends. You are not wanting to be her boyfriend.

So it's not so much about "what style" or "what restaurant" or "what price," but more about "oh, he's inviting me to dinner?" as opposed to "hey, why don't we grab some food really quick before we go another round? My stomach is already yelling at me."

If you've been seeing a girl on a semi-regular basis for a while, would you EVER let her stay over a night? Like say it's a Friday and you don't have to get up Saturday and neither does she and you'd like to fuck some more in the morning. If you hold a strong frame I wouldn't think it'd matter but I don't know, it also sounds like a recipe for drama down the road. I'm just asking because my classes don't start till the afternoon so it's very tempting for me to let a girl stay over once a week and then do that with multiple girls to fill up my schedule.

This seems to be more something that Chase does, although I've definitely had girls stay the night. It's still really about your frame and the way you handle it that communicates to her what it is. If you spend the whole night cuddling and kissing her and then let her know she's welcome to stay over whenever she wants, then she might start to get the wrong idea. If you say, however, "hey, you've had a few to drink tonight, so you're welcome to crash here if you want to. I have to get ready for work tomorrow morning though, so just don't expect me to hang around, if that's cool ."

It's probably safest to just not let her sleep over if you can avoid it, but I've done it before without any issues. You just need to remember that every action you take is a form of subcommunication to her, so you don't want to send any signals that you want something else (if it's not what you want).

Even now, that you know exactly what you're doing, would you agree and say that sometimes you can break these rules and do things your way, or are these rules hard and fast no matter how experienced you are?

My above statement probably answers this question. I think it's best to follow the rules at first so you can see why they are there, then once you're comfortable with it, you can try bending them to your own intuition and see what the results are. You'll find that some rules are more flexible than you realized while other rules are "hard rules" for a reason.

- Franco

 

[Tkr]

Actually, it kind of is a bad idea. Doesn't matter how you go about it or how trivial it may seem to you.

Good stuff Franco, I love it when people tell me straight how it really is. I've never been one to listen to rules (only the ones I like anyhow) and it is important to realize that everything you do has a sub-communication to it. I may feel like sex is not a big deal but the virgin in my bed might be internally freaking out, hopefully in more ways than one

I'll update this when I see her, but I think if it was any other set of circumstances I would have totally fucked it up. I've had girls put me on the boyfriend track after sex even though she knew I was leaving in 2 months, but this one seems like it will just play into my hands anyway if I pay better attention to this kind of stuff the next meet.

In my perfect world I'd have 2 or 3 girlfriends that do meet up to get food with me and sleep over and that I can really connect with, but like you say, it's important to follow the rules at first so you know why they're there. Ricardus had an article on keeping a harem, but maybe this kind of set-up hasn't been written about on GC yet? Dunno, but there's a lot of books on polyamory like this out there anyhow. I've heard good reviews on The Ethical Slut, though I haven't read it so can't recommend it myself.

Thanks for sharing your ideas Franco, it really does feel like you learn something new every day.
- TR

 

[Tkr]

Update on the outcome here:

Yeah, it went to shit.
On the first date she brought up the idea of casual sexual relationships and I agreed to it by banging her the same day, but by getting dinner the next meet and not having sex it threw up a total mismatch. I verbally told her after the mistake that I wanted to keep it casual but girls don't listen to words, my actions showed that we went on a date and didn't have sex.

Throughout the next week or 2 she gave me the run around and this week ignored me. I wouldn't be surprised if she hits me up sometime in the way future to hang, but that's just not the kind of relationship we set up.

I've learned that the most important thing is to have sex the 2nd time you meet too, so that by the third its a routine and your identity is clearly "the guy she sees for sex". By not having sex the second time we met (because we went to dinner instead) I fucked that up.

I don't think this would be a problem for girls that aren't so busy and don't have an abundance of great options, but this girl is simply too hot for that. She's the poster girl for a pole dancing club now and has rich guys taking her out and paying all sorts of things for her. If I'm not "the guy she sees for sex" she has no time for me because I sure as hell can't compete with big $ as a boyfriend.

Thanks for the help Franco, I learned a lot from this and think I have it worked out now.