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most girls don't deserve

Estate

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Dec 20, 2012
Messages
798
I read the original post and wanted to comment so please excuse I sort of skipped over the side-conversation.

Lao Che,

If you want to know what's up here, I think you're looking at this all wrong. I think you're taking the entitled and abundance mentality to the extreme here where you're assuming women who are not into you, are... and women who are... you're being too entitled and dickish with.

On the first two OKC girls. Well, that's online dating. These women were not into you. Women send these one word things to pass time. Not to "allow you seduce them".
It could be argued you had a shot when they replied by being fairly non-reactive instead of needy like most guys but still... you're focusing on women who are passing time and assuming their lack of effort means they suck.
No, their lack of effort is a result of their indiference to your messages/profile.

On the texting girl...
Again, you're taking it too far. It's one thing to play cool and sort of take the upper hand because you know she's chasing you and not allowing yourself to be needy enough to have the tables turned.
However, chase framing still involves being playful. You're not meant to sit there plowing into her the fact that SHE is chasing nd YOU are in control. It's about playfully setting the tone. You're not supposed to TELL her you have the upper hand, you just playfully DISPLAY it, if you want it to work.

On all 3. I'm guessing these are young girls.... <24, probably younger?
Look, here's what I know here... below maybe 25, this is how girls communicate. Over 25, some do, but you really don't want those women. Or at least, it's not my taste. Not because of the communication per se, it's just a maturity thing.

But you just have to communicate with younger women on their level. Their indifference is easy to turn around, but you have to do it on THEIR level... you sort of had it going initially in ll these interactions but then went too hard on them.

2 examples of women I'm seeing at the moment.
A 22 year old hair stylist /makeup artist... she is really smart, talkative, even speaks elegantly in person. But her texting is that of a 9 year old. So I basically just don't engage in any "real" conversation by text. It's a means to meet up. Short messages designed to get her to meet me, work. Trying to text her any meaningful conversation is basically ignored or responds with a "k". So i don't even go there.

Another is a 28 year old who works as a dietician and fitness instructor. Again, very well spoken and accomplished. I still use text as a means to meet up with her but she needs a little "mature" conversation beforehand... basically just catch up on what she's been up to before asking to meet, but sending her a "K" would not get a reply.

The difference is maturity level overall. But if you want BOTH types, you need to tailor your game to the audience.

Try reeling back the bitterness and entitlement attitude a little. It comes off a little phoney and overly agressive.
If you REALLY had the abundance to write these women off, you wouldn't even be replying to them.
 

lao che

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Apr 21, 2013
Messages
492
estate, thanks for taking the time to respond to the OP, but i feel you somewhat missed the point, as radeng did at first, and therefore somewhat wasted your time.

i didn't write that original post because i wanted advice on how to get any or all of those girls (ironically, i've written two other posts recently where i've asked for specific advice about specific situations and neither of those were answered). i wrote it purely as a rant to entertain myself and hopefully some other readers. i know i could have banged at least two of them (i made a mistake in my reply to radeng - No. 1 and 3, not 1 and 2) the one with the cookie face is a complete unknown, and the one i actually met in person i didn't care to bother with. i was not chase framing (don't know how you would draw that conclusion), i was not thinking 'i have the upper hand here' i was being honest. i wasn't even nasty, really. i was blunt, for sure, but not mean. if she was honest back to me i would have been more forgiving. and if i really wanted to fuck her i might have played it differently. but due to the history i already know that (probably) she's not gonna fuck. yes, you're right, i shoudn't have called her out and yes, you're right, not replying would have been the stronger position to take (as i said in the original post). but you're dead wrong in your analysis of each of the four situations.

ages are

1. 30
2. 29
3.24
4. late twenties
 

Chase

Chieftan
Staff member
tribal-elder
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Messages
6,361
Lao Che-

Yeah, what you're doing here is essentially the same as walking around a nightclub pinging girls and moving on from the ones who aren't especially interested. In this case, you're doing it with OkC / text.

There's something to be said for hanging in there and toughing it out with women giving you neutral or blasé responses when you're new, but once you're at the point where you know you're a catch and you know a lot of women get excited by you, eventually you just don't feel like going to the trouble to optimize your game further for women who are still going to act like, "Oh. It's you. Hey. How's life," around you.

Whether it's a game they're playing or they're just not impressed, well, shrug, move on, and find a girl who is. Frequently she's hotter than the one who was acting bored, too, which is weird and funny when you find her right after the bored girl.

Chase
 

Estate

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Dec 20, 2012
Messages
798
lao che said:
i feel you somewhat missed the point, as radeng did at first, and therefore somewhat wasted your time.

lol.. I'll know better in future then.

Man, I know it was a rant but why I replied was I think you're missing the mark.

You seem to be coming at it from the angle that "aren't these girls silly.. they all want me" when it's really not the case. You're chasing them and in the instance you weren't. The agreesion and hatred towards women killed the interaction anyway.

While I know you weren't looking for advice I felt it was maybe in your best interest to actually get some advice on your approach to women.

It's a very PUA type attitude to project hatred on women. We love women here. This all reads very much like a scorned ex girlfriend posting on Facebook "oh I never wanted him anyway, he's a loser" after being dumped... well..m if that were true.. why were you with him in the first place and why so scorned?
 

Hector Papi Castillo

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Dec 2, 2013
Messages
2,592
Lao Che,

Read Chase's comment 100 times, because the answer to your coginitive dissonance is in there. You're ranting about women not deserving you, and you're probably correct in most instances, but you're taking a truth about heirarchy, and then extending that premise to an unwarranted and pessimistic conclusion.

You're doing this right now

Mindset 1: "I'm high value" -> "I'm better than all you bitches; if you ignore me or treat me badly, you're scum"

And like I said, this isn't an invalid conclusion, and it's quite useful for progress, because hate is a VERY powerful emotion, IF used properly. BUT, it's an incomplete picture and unnecessarily hateful towards the wrong things. I would suggest an alternative conclusion

Mindset 2: "I'm high value" -> "I'm going to focus on drawing other high value people into my life."

With Mindset 1, you're spending too much energy on rejection and hate to protect your ego. With Mindset 2, you'll get all the benefits from Mindset 1 (higher standards and quicker screening process), along with a more positive attitude and you'll actually emnate even more value, because you'll still be kind to lower value people, which is a sign of true power (you don't need to make someone your best friend to show them kindness). And because of this "caring for the weak" attitude, you'll ascend to Mount Olympus; only the gods can truly care for the weak, because they have so much power to share.

If you continue with your pessimistic, rejection-focused view, you'll inhibit your evolution to the level of genuity and be stuck in the "jerk/asshole paradigm" for way too long. If you must use hate, which I still do on occasion, focus your hate on your own negative qualities and weaknesses. This will motivate you in an inverse way, e.g., "I hate how thirsty I get when a girl starts to tease me; I really need to stop doing that." This way you'll get to channel all that hate you have, but in a progressive way.

You can hate everyone you want, but that hate is being wasted on unproductive projects - people rarely respond well to hate and asking people to change with pure emotion is useless, as Chase outlines in his article "Why I Don't Tell Women To 'Step It Up'". People have to learn their own lessons; your hate won't do anything to improve their learning curve if they're unwilling to listen.

- Hector
 

lao che

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Apr 21, 2013
Messages
492
Estate said:
lao che said:
i feel you somewhat missed the point, as radeng did at first, and therefore somewhat wasted your time.

lol.. I'll know better in future then.

Man, I know it was a rant but why I replied was I think you're missing the mark.

You seem to be coming at it from the angle that "aren't these girls silly.. they all want me" when it's really not the case. You're chasing them and in the instance you weren't. The agreesion and hatred towards women killed the interaction anyway.

While I know you weren't looking for advice I felt it was maybe in your best interest to actually get some advice on your approach to women.

It's a very PUA type attitude to project hatred on women. We love women here. This all reads very much like a scorned ex girlfriend posting on Facebook "oh I never wanted him anyway, he's a loser" after being dumped... well..m if that were true.. why were you with him in the first place and why so scorned?


that's a fair comment but assumes sour grapes and assumes that this is my attitude towards all girls all the time. the same to anatman's comments.
 

lao che

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Apr 21, 2013
Messages
492
my okcupid profile is very good. i'm not saying it's effective, as in obeying the 'rules' of male profiles, but it's very funny, displays my character very well without giving away details, and acts as a huge filter. i wrote it purely for myself, changing it over time, and i enjoy the process. it sometimes gets me laid without much effort. and sometimes i search for appropriate girls and message them, and it sometimes gets me laid.

okcupid girls fall into four categories, as far as i'm concerned.

4) no girls. girls who don't respond. clear enough
3)maybe girls. girls who respond without visiting my profile. (can be turned into something but hit and miss and usually go nowhere)
2)yes girls. girls who read my message, visit my profile, and then respond (No.3 was a yes girl)
1)yes+ girls. girls who are actively looking for a guy, visit my profile, then open me (No.1)

@estate in my experience, no girl ever, never, starts messaging a guy first "because she's bored" and in my experience no girls are ever replying to you "because they are bored" it just doesn't happen.
"It could be argued you had a shot when they replied by being fairly non-reactive instead of needy" needy? i don't even know where you get that from.

now, the girls i wrote about i would analyze like this:

No 1 was the online equivalent of a girl hovering by you when you're standing alone, talking loudly on the phone to get your attention and maybe dropping her purse at your feet.
i replied to her "made me laugh" message with "well if i made just one person laugh, it means it was all worthwhile. mission accomplished" to which she replied "yes i think so :)"
no nastiness or games, no chase framing no "fuck you bitch hahahaha you can't have my dick i'm a PUA"
i just didn't pursue because i wasn't interested. let her down gently.

No. 2 had been getting dick from somewhere else for the last 9 months. that's over now and she's looking for something new. looks through her old messages, checks me out. hmmm let's try this guy. i ignored her. again, no nastiness or bitterness or game playing (if she had a picture other than a cookie, or if she gave me something more than "haha thnx" then i might have taken it further).

no. 3 likes the look of me. could see i was interesting, looking good and had things to say. was just determined to be stubborn and push back instead of yield. which, i can't think of a better way to say it but SURELY you know what i mean. that bored "nope, not me, i'm just as bad in real life" and not asking or relating or leaving doors in the conversation for us to walk through together. i know she probably has things to say. i know it was an act. and i KNOW i could have turned it around but felt she wasn't worth the effort. i feel almost like i gave her three strikes and now she's out. although my strikes are somewhat arbitrary. and she was probably the hottest of the four, although her face was half covered.

no. 4 was exactly how i told her it was. she's sat at home bored on a sunny spring day. she probably sent the same message to 15 other people. which, fine, who doesn't sometimes do that? i 've done it - "let's see if i have any girls i can maybe fuck tonight" blast out a few messages and say a hail mary. the conversation could have gone any other way though. like i asked her about enjoying the spring weather and her response is "how are you" instead of "yeah it's a beautiful day i'm sat in the park" or whatever. or i ask her about being bored she could have said "guilty as charged haha" and i would relate to that and we could chat together more openly. but that isn't how it went. so be it.
in fact re: No 4 my main problem was i felt she was dishonest. that's why i called her out. i understand that, probably, she didn't really expect me to believe that she "wanted to talk to an old friend" or was "just wondering how i was" it was just her way of opening a conversation. but she became defensive when i challenged her, probably because she knew that i knew that she knew she was full of shit. the truth made her uncomfortable and rather than 'fess up and allow us to have a normal interaction, she went into denial. which, yeah, harsh on my side but righteous! haha

now several times commenters have mentioned bitterness and anger. the only bitterness or anger that you may see is in my private, italicized comments that i wrote as notes next to the actual conversations. the girls didn't see that. because it didn't exist. even No. 4 who i called out, could be considered harsh, but there is no bitterness, nor anger. honest blunt direct, yes. angry? i say nay. hatred? nay. bitter? nay
 
the right date makes getting her back home a piece of cake
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