Musings on "Purpose" and outcome dependence

Tank

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Jul 9, 2019
Messages
115
One of the most satisfying developments for me this year has been (and I'm almost there I think, but not completely) a significant drop in the dependence of my happiness on the quantity and quality of sex in my life.

How much of it is just age and maturity, how much is very purposeful personal work on making this happen (with some helpful coaching from Tony on the matter), who knows but I used to get horrifically irritable and depressed when I wasn't having loads of sex, and my hard quality ceiling (8s and above are universally nos/reds for me) used to nag my consciousness to a debilitatingly painful extent, and now I very much (almost completely) don't care.

My mindset has very much shifted towards considering dating and sex as a tertiary priority in my life, after career and hobbies, as just barely important. I now think of large rotations, ltrs, or any sort of spending lots of time, as a completely shitty waste of time, and intend to spend 5 months of every year (in the cold seasons) in Monk mode doing other things. Sex and dating are just a recreational pasttime, like golf say, can be nice to do, but spending a lot of time of it, and especially putting any emotional investment in it, just seems horrendously senseless.

This really goes in line with many stoic principles of going with your nature and doubling down on favorable circumstances and talents, they are certainly more favorable for me to make significant progress in my career and hobbies than women. I'm genuinely excited and happy working on these things, and am even glad when a date flakes, or when it rains and so a daygame session is cancelled, and I can do that instead.

Overall living in this manner and planning my life in such a way as to retain women as a low priority has made me much much happier, gone are so many depression symptoms.

Now, along these lines I do like some people like alphamalestudios and Richard Cooper who say also to pursue greatness over women. However I strongly disagree with the notion that this actually helps with women itself. Beyond being a deadbeat loser, women dont give a fuck how ambitious or even successful you are, they fuck guys who are hot fun and charismatic. Unless you are so successful you can buy a nightclub or host wild yacht cocaine parties, it does not help in one bit. Certainly your drive to succeed doesn't affect attraction at all. In fact it's to a detriment to the extent that it takes away time that you could devote to game and approaching specifically or even partying in general (and thus generally being more socially skilled, cooler and high value).

(Maybe ambition and success matters for keeping women long term but I certainly have zero interest in that)

But in terms of overall mental health and emotional stability, shifting priorities in this sense has done wonders. So it really is put yourself first not because it will help with women but it will make one happier.

So mgtow for the win, but not the angry or whiny kind, but the general principle of deprioritization of woman/romance/sex and complete emotional disengagement from all that shit.
 

ljrozz69

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
May 25, 2019
Messages
175
Hey Tank!

I am truly glad to hear that you are doing better! =)

I sense that such discovery made you realize that you were not pursuing your goals and made you unhappy. Maybe there are still goals of yours that you are not pursing enough if you are not fully happy. In such case it may be woth to ask yourself "What do I really want?" and answer without lying to yourself -which is hard... you may not be aware of what you want in a deep level, so you must do some digging-.

Perhaps you don't understand why I say this but as a guy whos been struggling a lot with live latelly thats been what has helped me. It seems like the next step to this post and even if you already have researched what you want you always can take it futher. It is truly what you've started and now it makes sense to me that you finish it.

This is me trying to help you the best I can
 

Skills

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Nov 11, 2019
Messages
4,245
Location
South Florida
Hey tank i am glad you are doing ok, i really at times felt bad for you and your lack of happiness in your women life, but it seems that you are the type of person that take things to extremes... Like politics, there is the left, the right, the libertarian, and they all have crazy extremest in all sides, and the truth is somewhere in the middle of the 3, at least for me, the same with the hate cops, black lives matter, is that you see people being in extremes of both all or nothing, and again the truth is somewhere in the middle..(for example instead of getting rid of cops, why not more cops training etc..)

One of the most satisfying developments for me this year has been (and I'm almost there I think, but not completely) a significant drop in the dependence of my happiness on the quantity and quality of sex in my life.

^ I made a post making the point that one of the best lessons that should get out of the corona isolation is to learn to derive happiness from within without needing women, i just would change the bold/underline to having women in my life. (cause quality and quantity of sex does make me fucking happy)

How much of it is just age and maturity, how much is very purposeful personal work on making this happen (with some helpful coaching from Tony on the matter), who knows but I used to get horrifically irritable and depressed when I wasn't having loads of sex, and my hard quality ceiling (8s and above are universally nos/reds for me) used to nag my consciousness to a debilitatingly painful extent, and now I very much (almost completely) don't care.

^ i think that this was kind of good, you were looking to improve and get hotter girls, the problem was the effect that had on you of "irritable and depress and the rest), that is no normal if a really hot girls reject me, i just think about what could i have done better, were are my blind spots.... But i do not get irritable and depress, it does not bother me, i got rejected this week by 2 8 pluses, and it did not bother me at all, what would have bother me was if i did not make a move.... See there were 2 girls last week were i did not make a move, that shit kind of annoys me, but again i don't get irritable or depress or unhappy, it does kind of annoyed me not making a move.

My mindset has very much shifted towards considering dating and sex as a tertiary priority in my life, after career and hobbies, as just barely important. I now think of large rotations, ltrs, or any sort of spending lots of time, as a completely shitty waste of time, and intend to spend 5 months of every year (in the cold seasons) in Monk mode doing other things. Sex and dating are just a recreational pasttime, like golf say, can be nice to do, but spending a lot of time of it, and especially putting any emotional investment in it, just seems horrendously senseless.

^ since day one in the seduction industry i have advocated having one main girl, queen, whatever you want to call it, and girls on the side (till this day i still consider this the right system), only mistake and adjustment i would make is SEPARATE PLACES. (i think i am the only dude in the community that never has stop getting laid, i think the max was 1 months when i went monk mode on purpose after my 10 year ex, i went mono 1 year with a rebound, and after the rebound i decided to detox and be able to be happy without mains, to be honest i do not think i made it a month i think after 2-3 weeks i got laid, but i am not 100% sure, i don't remember well, i wish i had a journal)

This really goes in line with many stoic principles of going with your nature and doubling down on favorable circumstances and talents, they are certainly more favorable for me to make significant progress in my career and hobbies than women. I'm genuinely excited and happy working on these things, and am even glad when a date flakes, or when it rains and so a daygame session is cancelled, and I can do that instead.

^ this is what i don't understand, careers and hobbies are always before women, You would have guys going through the normal pick up stage that last anywhere from 6 months - to a year doing mass numbers such as @Peterdk234 but after that we all go back to normal life.... I mean the idea that picking up women requires massive amount of time other than the beginning stages is not true i made that point here.. I know perception is reality, so you see guys on forums posting a lot or talking about pick up a lot etc.... and you think that is the whole life but that is just perception no reality, for me this is just a hobbie, and i am different here i feel like i am with my tribe, the guys my age are all married, fat, dress like shit, with a million kids, i can not relate to them... I was talking to my main about this, and she got depress when corona hit, i dump my rotation and stop going to clubs, and i told her "wholly fuck is this what normal life is like, this shit soo boring" her face drop of sadness cause she knows when sanctions are over she is fucked.

Overall living in this manner and planning my life in such a way as to retain women as a low priority has made me much much happier, gone are so many depression symptoms.

^ well i guess then this is something YOU had to do, cause yeah i can not relate... But i get it, i am glad if is not COPE, you are happier...

Now, along these lines I do like some people like alphamalestudios and Richard Cooper who say also to pursue greatness over women. However I strongly disagree with the notion that this actually helps with women itself. Beyond being a deadbeat loser, women dont give a fuck how ambitious or even successful you are, they fuck guys who are hot fun and charismatic. Unless you are so successful you can buy a nightclub or host wild yacht cocaine parties, it does not help in one bit. Certainly your drive to succeed doesn't affect attraction at all. In fact it's to a detriment to the extent that it takes away time that you could devote to game and approaching specifically or even partying in general (and thus generally being more socially skilled, cooler and high value).

^ i don't know about this, my wing primo (successful programer that owns a game app and gets passive income from it) and his results (which is what you are looking for, really young girls 18-23 hot etc...) would totally disagree and disprove this point as well as a name i can not mention here so i don't get in trouble.....

(Maybe ambition and success matters for keeping women long term but I certainly have zero interest in that)

Ambition and success is a dhv, there are guys in the community with some success such as @YS. , @Grand Pooba , black dragon , @Razorjack , money matteo etc... In fictional characters don draper, tony soprano, Walder frey, the dude from entourage etc...

But in terms of overall mental health and emotional stability, shifting priorities in this sense has done wonders. So it really is put yourself first not because it will help with women but it will make one happier.

Agree, this should have been always like that...

So mgtow for the win, but not the angry or whiny kind, but the general principle of deprioritization of woman/romance/sex and complete emotional disengagement from all that shit.

^ yep, is called a sigma male... mgtow is high jacked by a bunch of loser copers...


 
Last edited:

Tank

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Jul 9, 2019
Messages
115
Klimax,
Yeah in terms of goals I know very well what the ideal circumstances would be for my career, hobbies and women would be. Now, at the current circumstances, I am in a good place in the first two in the sense of having wide open lanes and great opportunities to pursue my dreams. With women, I gave up on my original goal of banging hot young nymphos as it seemed completely impossible, then tried a variety of alternatives, fuckbuddies, mltrs, and LTRs while downgrading my standards and it was sometimes sort satiating but not really great, like eating a bunch of mildly good tasting food, while taking up a huge amount of time. Then I developed myself internally to not be dependent on so much sex and not being so saturated with it and downgraded the frequency I was seeking. And with that this year overall my sex life has been pleasant enough while I made great strides in the other two areas. Continuing to make great strides in these two and really gunning for greatness there, while still making an attempt to gradually improve my technical skills without stressing it so much (I don't see how it can be possible to achieve what I wanted originally, but I think with gradual skillset development I think I can get to a reasonable close rate with 7s, as in, there is room to improve and it's worthwhile to still keep studying and working on technical game), seems to be the road that will bring me the most overall happiness.



Hey tank i am glad you are doing ok, i really at times felt bad for you and your lack of happiness in your women life, but it seems that you are the type of person that take things to extremes... Like politics, there is the left, the right, the libertarian, and they all have crazy extremest in all sides, and the truth is somewhere in the middle of the 3, at least for me, the same with the hate cops, black lives matter, is that you see people being in extremes of both all or nothing, and again the truth is somewhere in the middle..(for example instead of getting rid of cops, why not more cops training etc..)
Haha yeah I thought it was really amusing that on my facebook feed everyone was so damn predictable, like I could easily write 100 lines of code that would write the comments of what my left wing friends would write and then what my right wing friends would write, they're like automatons without any regard for the subtlety and nuance. In general when you see a bunch of angry people on two sides with very opposing beliefs, you have, ultimately, people foolishly believing that there are simple solutions to complex problems.

^ I made a post making the point that one of the best lessons that should get out of the corona isolation is to learn to derive happiness from within without needing women, i just would change the bold/underline to having women in my life. (cause quality and quantity of sex does make me fucking happy)



^ i think that this was kind of good, you were looking to improve and get hotter girls, the problem was the effect that had on you of "irritable and depress and the rest), that is no normal if a really hot girls reject me, i just think about what could i have done better, were are my blind spots.... But i do not get irritable and depress, it does not bother me, i got rejected this week by 2 8 pluses, and it did not bother me at all, what would have bother me was if i did not make a move.... See there were 2 girls last week were i did not make a move, that shit kind of annoys me, but again i don't get irritable or depress or unhappy, it does kind of annoyed me not making a move.
Ultimately I was frustrated that every single 8 was a hard no, I had absolutely no chance with them and could have no chance with them no matter what I did. With 7s I take it more in stride, I can dig in and identify what I could have done better, where my game was weak, etc. I don't get emotionally bothered really, because they often enough do give me a chance, and sometimes I succeed.

^ since day one in the seduction industry i have advocated having one main girl, queen, whatever you want to call it, and girls on the side (till this day i still consider this the right system), only mistake and adjustment i would make is SEPARATE PLACES. (i think i am the only dude in the community that never has stop getting laid, i think the max was 1 months when i went monk mode on purpose after my 10 year ex, i went mono 1 year with a rebound, and after the rebound i decided to detox and be able to be happy without mains, to be honest i do not think i made it a month i think after 2-3 weeks i got laid, but i am not 100% sure, i don't remember well, i wish i had a journal)



^ this is what i don't understand, careers and hobbies are always before women, You would have guys going through the normal pick up stage that last anywhere from 6 months - to a year doing mass numbers such as @Peterdk234 but after that we all go back to normal life.... I mean the idea that picking up women requires massive amount of time other than the beginning stages is not true i made that point here.. I know perception is reality, so you see guys on forums posting a lot or talking about pick up a lot etc.... and you think that is the whole life but that is just perception no reality, for me this is just a hobbie, and i am different here i feel like i am with my tribe, the guys my age are all married, fat, dress like shit, with a million kids, i can not relate to them... I was talking to my main about this, and she got depress when corona hit, i dump my rotation and stop going to clubs, and i told her "wholly fuck is this what normal life is like, this shit soo boring" her face drop of sadness cause she knows when sanctions are over she is fucked.
Response below

^ well i guess then this is something YOU had to do, cause yeah i can not relate... But i get it, i am glad if is not COPE, you are happier...



^ i don't know about this, my wing primo (successful programer that owns a game app and gets passive income from it) and his results (which is what you are looking for, really young girls 18-23 hot etc...) would totally disagree and disprove this point as well as a name i can not mention here so i don't get in trouble.....



Ambition and success is a dhv, there are guys in the community with some success such as @YS. , @Grand Pooba , black dragon , @Razorjack , money matteo etc... In fictional characters don draper, tony soprano, Walder frey, the dude from entourage etc...
Primo has the wild house parties from what I remember, yeah that is because of status, certainly throwing cool parties, that money enables you to do, can help, but not just wealth in itself, or the drive to pursue things really. Razorjack got laid a ton as just an aggressive rockstar kind of guy long before he got into business, money matteo same he was more of a motorcycle riding badboy than a businessman during most of his pickup greatness. Thing is a lot of pick up guys eventually get into entrepreuneurship later, it's a common transition, the excitement of putting oneself out there, irrevarent disregard for how everyone else lives life, etc.

Agree, this should have been always like that...



^ yep, is called a sigma male... mgtow is high jacked by a bunch of loser copers...
Yeah that's a shame, it started as a rational movement and then got invaded by the incels...

So,
1) For many guys viewing the videos on monk mode, I actually completely agree with BD's video. It does sadden me when I hear a guy in is early 20s doing monk mode, that is indeed a complete waste of youth, every man's early adulthood should have loads of wild experiences, and that includes banging many many women. Although obviously I wasn't happy with the consistency and quality in the last 8 years or so after I started to get pickier (in my early 20s I didn't really give a fuck, a hole was a hole and I was just a walking hard dick, sometimes having sex 25+ hours a week with a range of women many of them meh looks like and that was all good), having a lay count 100+ clearly means I've already had a range of experiences, there hasn't been any kind of woman or kind of sexual activity or experience I completely missed out on in terms of experiencing at least once.

2) Beyond that, with any guy advocating anything, well just like he said, you have to see the circumstances of his life. BD himself says he has had a good sex life, a good business life, but absolutely nothing else. No hobbies, no friends, and even his level of fitness is poor.

I have done what he advocates, having 3+ mltrs/fbs on rotation at all times, and doing that the arithmetic simply doesn't add up.
Roughly speaking, after basic needs, eating sleeping and I would include exercise, I've observed I have 90 hours per week to play with. If I have 3-4 mltrs/fbs there goes at least 10 and more like 15. Then there's having to semi-regularly replace them and just staying sharp in one's game, so add another 5-10. If I actually want to game actively and improve my skills, then the time investment is even greater, and now we're talking 30 hours a week devoted to women. I did that in my early to mid 20s, and I could. Then I tried it later and shit just couldn't be held together. Getting ahead in one's career, if it's competitive and you're ambitious does require 50-60 hours per week, and I want to dedicate at least 15 hours to my hobbies, and add to that having some, even minimal, non-PU social life, and really there's just 10 hours left for women, which is not enough for a rotation of 3+, and certainly not together with being in field regularly. So by gunning at 60-65 work and 20 hours hobbies in monk mode, and more like 50 and 15 the rest of the year, I can make great progress in the other areas, while I also have more time to play with to actually make some headway in the women time.

And even then a rotation of 3-4+ is just too time draining. In the non monk mode time the format I used this year that I liked was pursue women, sleep with them, and if one I like enough, I sleep with her more actively for a month or two fucking her in every way possible, while dialing down meeting women a bit but still having ONSs, then let her go after that time and go back to more active meeting and skillset focus, and repeat. I'm transitioning now from tinder to daygame, and want to focus more on dedicated study and deliberate skillset practice instead of just volume as I tended to do before, but in general that format seems ideal for me.
 

Skills

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Nov 11, 2019
Messages
4,245
Location
South Florida
Dude, i see my main thursday and saturday evening she sleeps over saturday (this is during quarentine)... post quarentine, i am planning to see her sunday and thursday.... you can work, go to the gym and have hobbies, and see another girl or 2 during the week, usually in the evening.... Tank i don't really know were you are coming out making it seems like so many hours... Finally, self employment helps a lot, but you do not have to.
 
Top
>