Need Some Major Help.

[gijas04]

OK. I'm just beginning pickup after a long lull because of a long-term relationship. I'm older as well - 38. In my youth I was very shy and back ward so this is something I've struggled with throughout my life BUT NOT SO MUCH NOW although I still get nervous around attractive women. I've been described as average on the web to very good looking in person depending on who's looking on or the day I guess.

It's mostly younger women that think I'm hot and show interest which is good as this is what I'm looking for but some older as well. I dress better than most men younger and older than me. I don't wear boyish grab, faded jeans nor do I wear suits but a combo of what I call dress-casual with a little sultry- Latino man look thrown in. I have darker features as in dark brown hair and fail hair but white skin and a more masculine jaw line than most men. I can grow a full beard in no time but keep it trim and reserved so I don't look too creepy. I walk with confidence and slow even though I've struggled with this from time to time in my past. So here's my problem and I don't think it's physical body language but rather conversational skill I have lacked throughout my life.

The scenario. I've been experimenting with pickups just starting in the last two weeks. What I've noticed is that I need to get better at general conversation and making the women feel comfortable around me and connect quickly. I've targeted younger and older women around my age but I try to say away from older women than me simply because this is the kind of women I went for in my youth and why I'm here in the first place due to not being satisfied. Sounds sad and it is. But I'm trying to change things around before I get too old and can't. I am successful in life though I'm not as successful as I want to be yet but what guy is really at my age?

So tonight I went to a huge bookstore and found two young women showing interest in me there. I said to myself, "OK, I need to start a conversation with them some how!" Here is what happened.

I noticed girl A in a aisle next to me but acted like I don't see her. She shows all the signs of chasing me. She sees me and walks to the very same aisle I'm in and lingers there a few minutes. She even turns around and looks toward my side of the aisle. I then froze up and couldn't think of anything to say other than a generic Hello. But I missed the initial window for even this introduction and she walked away.

I moved myself shortly after and found here lingering in another aisle and I felt sure she was nonverbally telling me "I want to talk to you because I have interest in you." So I pick up a book on vampires (lame.. I know) and ask her if she ever read the book. She implied "no" she hadn't and then I couldn't think of anything to move the conversation forward other than to keep commenting on the book. I didn't make good eye contact as I was looking at the book mostly instead of her but I did look at her when she said something. Anyway, I felt kind of nervous (she was much younger and extremely hot) so she must have sensed I was nervous as she casually started to move away from me before disappearing all together. I thought "well, I screwed up that one again" and began walking slowly toward the exit when I noticed another girl B positioning herself near me again. I then thought "screw it, I'll just say whatever I want this time." So I made a comment on another book (lame again I know) about sleeping and told her it was my kind of book. She just gave me a blank stare not even looking at me directly in the eyes, mumbling something and walked away to check out.

SO I'm at a loss here. I see women doing things that fit all the hints of a women interested. They position next to me and even look at me from time to time. They smile sometimes when I pass them directly. I try to say hello, hi and they say hi and walk away. I do feel women are interested in me initially and find me intriguing but are they afraid of me and think I'm a older creepy guy when I approach them? I don't know really but I need to find out what it is I'm doing wrong and have a normal conversation going to see the difference and compare.

I really don't want to waste a lot of time with situational openers because to me, they lead no where and down the wrong path of what I'm trying for which is ramping up attraction to get them to sleep with me. I'm not interested in a relationship at this point in my life - been there done that. I have however used direct openers "are you single" and most of them turned out badly as well because I came in frontal instead of from the side without pre-opening. I do see a little bit of improvement from just learning what to do and what not to do from this site so there is hope. I don't scan for eye contact anymore, I know not to come in frontal, I act as if I'm really looking for something and sometimes I am. I try to pre-open now when possible. However, when it comes to conversation I fail almost every time. I need to fix this ASAP or I will get now where no matter how good my fundamentals are. Any help is much appreciated.

Jason

 

[Just_Dave]

Hey Jason,

Welcome to the boards and Happy New Year sir!

Primer: This what I like about you!
*You see women are attracted to you
*You know what you want!
*You're not afraid to approach
*You got her to pre-open, you got her to look at you before you looked at her

Keeping it simple: You know what you want out of the interaction just not sure how to get there . . .
*Avoid full frontal openers
*Avoid opening from the back
*Ground your opener

Genuine opener: Continuing from group opener
*You want to say something like "I saw you there and I just had to say ..." or "I saw you sitting her and I had to say that..."
*Compliment her on something genuine you like
*Follow up with an introduction "...I'm Dave"
The opener is to make her feel special

Confident: Be confident with your opener
*Make her feel like she just met the sexiest man she's ever met
*Keep grounded
*Lead the interaction

Conversation: Ask about her
*What brought you out", "Any interesting things that have caught your eye"
*Build a connection, get her talking about herself
*Break the touch barrier
*Frame it as sexual as soon as you can

Close: Suggest a meet up, date, or if you can pull on the spot. Simply Pull
*Set up the date first . . . the number is get to cement the date
*If you can isolate her, get flirtatious and get touchy
**Lead to interaction to sex once you've isolated her

I'm confident you got it going on you just needed a little nudge in the right direction. You sound like you got an impressive sense of style, as evidenced by the girls checking you out.

Questions, comments, concerns?!

Dave

 

[Marty]

Hey Jason:

I was just about to write a response and see Dave beat me to it! Just Dave has given me some wonderful advice that has helped me achieve real results; you should pay attention to what he writes, he really knows what he's talking about.

There's not much I can add now, but I can tell you what I was going to say. In your bookstore situation, I'd certainly not have allowed the conversation to stay "neutral" like that beyond a few seconds at most. I'd have gone direct.

What I feel comfortable with, these days, is an opening phrase that is a little bit neutral just so she knows you're talking to her and can adjust mentally, something like...

I just saw you walk past...

I nearly bumped into you back there...

I saw you looking at that book on space travel...

—and then once she turns to look at you, you look back and go direct, like this:

I felt I simply had to come and say hello

I couldn't resist telling you how pretty you look in that dress

—and then go ahead and make introductions, to reward her for engaging with you.

Pay close attention to what Dave wrote about opening body language (under his "Keeping it simple" header). Don't turn toward her until she turns to look at you. And if she already smiled at you, you can replace the second phrase above with:

I wanted to tell you that you have a very cute smile

If she stared at you, and knows it, you can say:

I think you have the loveliest eyes

Practice adjusting it to the situation, and you may find you'll get some warm receptions!

I'm 38 too and open girls in the 21-24 age range all the time.

-Marty

 

[gijas04]

Dave, Marty;

I see. The funny thing is I usually know what to say depending on the situation before I enter a bookstore or other venue
(I rehearse different openers in my mind) and then when the time comes to approach my mind goes blank as if I'm stumbling for words to an introduction. It's been years now since I've actually approached women so I lost any knowhow I had somewhere in the process. When a man goes dormant he forgets these things kind of like "if you don't use it, you lose it" although even in my youth I never usually approached many women unless they showed every indication to me that they were interested first and even then failed to lure them in properly. I do have a couple a questions regarding both posts.

Dave,

When you say "keep it grounded" what does this apply to? I'm assuming you mean keep the conversation under your control and not going off where you don't want it to go that eventually leads to the girl exiting?

And break the touch barrier? Not sure what you mean here?

Lastly, how can I frame it as sexual without being blatantly obvious? Some examples here will help. And how soon is soon to frame it as sexual in the conversation? Is it right after the opener or after I get some kind of connection with her by asking questions?

Thank you.

Marty,

So basically when you say "don't turn towards her until she looks at you first" you mean come in from the side (not frontal) and then after I state the opener to her and she looks at me first, then look at her with a "I'm Jason" introduction? Just making sure I get what your saying here.

Thanks.

 

[Just_Dave]

Dave,

When you say "keep it grounded" what does this apply to? I'm assuming you mean keep the conversation under your control and not going off where you don't want it to go that eventually leads to the girl exiting?

And break the touch barrier? Not sure what you mean here?

Lastly, how can I frame it as sexual without being blatantly obvious? Some examples here will help. And how soon is soon to frame it as sexual in the conversation? Is it right after the opener or after I get some kind of connection with her by asking questions?

Thank you.

Keep it grounded: Is the reason you approached her, its your alibi. "I saw you over there, and I just had to come hi". You had a reason to approach and you went with this course of action. It's a lot more effective than simply saying "Hi". Cause even though you know why you said "Hi" she does not.

Breaking the touch barrier: I do simple things such as shaking a girls hand upon introduction. Examining her nails to hold her hand, it's all simply use to get her use to the idea of touching her. You also have to do it in a right way and context. You don't want to look at your hand while you touch her, it comes off as awkward. You can touch girls at high points during conversations as well. Don't be afraid to move closer to a girl during conversation, this makes touching more natural and fluid. Instead of trying to touch her from 3 feet away, stand about a foot and a half away from her.

Dave's tips
*I've told girls "secrets" more romantic and sexual
*"Warmed" them up more romantic and leading up to sexual touch
*Examined their nails is still my go to and my biggest success, good after an opener

You just need to be a little be witty, and naughty minded, and try to relate everything that she says into a naughty topic...

Sexual Framing: Subtle and Undertones, examples I've used recently
* "Shannon Merry Christmas! I forgot to ask have you been naughty or nice this year " said through text
* "I enjoy when a woman can just relax and go on an wild adventure" said in person
* "If you keep staring at me like that your boyfriend might get jealous" said in person

Chases articles
https://www.girlschase.com/content/9-secrets-being-sexual-man
https://www.girlschase.com/content/how-use-sexual-frame-turn-women

 

[gijas04]

Update: Today I got off work early and decided despite the cold I would go out and talk to some women. I had to force myself to go out but it paid off slightly. I wanted to get some organic honey and made an excuse to stop at Whole Foods which is one of the places mentioned to meet single women at. I usually go out shopping at night due to work so day game is not something I'm use to.

Upon entering the store there were tons of young women alone shopping and I thought I must have struck a gold mine. However, most of these women if not all were moving so fast around the store I found it nearly impossible to find a approach window for a conversation. I don't know why women shop so fast sometimes? So, feeling a bit disheartened by the affair I decided to just go somewhere else down the road and try my luck there. As a beginner I find it hard sometimes to find that right moment where it's perfect to approach a women and know now this is another wall I must climb to be what I want to be which is good at approaches. After deciding to finally check out at the register I noticed a average looking women that was working at the register. She stared at me and looked away showing interest. I don't like to approach employees of any venue since one, they work there and two it's not a challenge to talk to them because this is what they get paid to do which is talk to customers. However, I had set a small goal to talk to at least one women and find out more about her. Another on going goal I've had since I started is to compliment at least three women during the outing. Both of these goals were accomplished. Now here is my conversation with the female worker at Whole Foods.

Me: How are you with a smile..
Her: Good and you?
Me: Good.
Me: How are you dealing with the cold?
Her: It's not bad as I'm warm at the moment. How about you?
Me: Well, I'm cold and need warmed up with a smile (thanks just_dave for this one)
Her: smiles
Me: I like your scarf it looks really nice on you. I like the pattern.
Her: Thanks. I got it at Target. My mom works there.
Me: Your mom works there?
Her: Yeah she saw it and thought it would look good on me.
Me: It does, really good. Smile.
Her: Have a great day with a big smile.
Me: I will. And you as well with a smile

Now I know most of you vets think this is pretty small in the comparison of PUA talk but I feel I made headway as I got to know more about her in just a minute than I would have otherwise by just talking about myself or only saying Hi which is what I normally do. I now can see where asking questions and giving compliments leads. It goes down a path to connect you with the person your talking to and makes them feel more comfortable around you when you give a compliment and ask more about it. So I'm learning if a bit slow I'm still learning which is what makes you stronger.

The other women I met I saw at Trader Joes. She looked at me and smiled and I said a big " Hello how are you" but like I said getting these women to stop what their doing to talk is the hard part. This one was hot by the way, and very young. I saw her out at her car afterward and she was still looking at me driving way. I felt I could of done much more here but didn't want to come off as some stalker chasing her. Anyway, I know I should of stopped her in the store and talked.

I'm not sure if it's better for a beginner to go out during the day since it's not as scary for women to be approached as at night? Would day game be better than night game if it's at the grocery store, bookstore or department store?