I've had enough. My time is too valuable to keep beating my head against these walls. Very little has changed in years. I continue to get stuck with sub-par women because I simply can't get a date with anyone better. This seems much bigger than just negative momentum. I think the game has changed, and none of this stuff works anymore. At least not for me, and not for anyone I have actual visible proof of. Surely I can't be the only one who feels this way?
Neither Cold Approach nor Online Dating produce any results for me anyone. What's the bext best alternative?
- Thread starter metalbird
- Start date
Also, I want to add, that part of what makes this so frustrating is that I know women find me attractive. I get checked out everywhere I go. I've got looks, money, style, I'm smart... But I don't look as good in photos as in irl, and cold approach (which used to work beautifully for me pre 2016 or so) is an exercise in futility like nothing I've ever experienced. I'll do cold call sales. I'll do public speaking. But trying to get a single date a single attractive woman, I might as well try to jump to the moon.
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Make a journal, write down your outings, texting etc... the alternatives such as ig and social circle are going to be difficult as well. There are guys on the forum getting laid a lot from both in the forum. Dating indeed has gotten way worst but still if you grind, you can still get laid... alternatives join a group qorkout such as crossfit and orange fitness, join mix sport group in your city like kick ball... join a dance class, join a joga class
Alright, I'm at the point where I'm willing to start writing a journal here if it'll help me get better results, but in the years I've been a member here, I've always been concerned with anonymity. It would be quite damaging to my career if someone identified me from an interaction I described, and outted my IRL identity. I don't think this site is that bad (and I respectfully disagree with some of the opinions around here), but you guys know how it is... Opponents could use this as seriously bad PR against me.
Damnit I don't know if it's worth the risk... Nothing is more important to me than my career, not even women...
Damnit I don't know if it's worth the risk... Nothing is more important to me than my career, not even women...
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That is a good point and a good mentality you have to create attraction in women
I know exactly how you feel. There are times where I pick up a very cute girl and then i spend times getting HB6s and HB7s which makes me think I am not progressing in game, very frustrating.
Don't give up, keep taking action, something has to change
All the best, PureGold
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this is cope and very unlikely to happen... that is why we use nicknames in the community...
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I gave some generic responses below, but it would be helpful if you can be more specific, as specific as possible so we can help you out.
Dating has changed, but you can’t control that. Only how you react to it.
I feel your frustration, it might be best to take a break from dating (no more than 3 months) so you can feel good about dating again.
Women are very intuitive when it comes to energy.
I would quit online dating entirely. Unless you’re in the top 5 to 10% of looks, it’s a losing game. It’s killing your self esteem.
I don’t know your situation, I don’t think you need to journal for everyone to see. But consider journal privately.
But to help you in this thread, I’d like to know…
1. What city do you live in? If you don’t want to answer, let us know if you live in or near a city. Is it a highly populated?
2. What is your game when you cold approach? What do you initially say to women? Do you take women on dates?
3. What do you believe in the weakest point in your game? The strongest point in your game?
4. Where are you cold approaching? Bar, club, shopping area, public transportation?
5. What type of women are you approaching? And what type of women are responding positively to you?
6. How would you describe your personality?
7. What type of woman do you want? Be very specific. What type of relationship do you want? One night stand, long term monogamous?
If you can answer these questions very very specifically, I’m sure I or others can offer some pointers.
To answer your question directly…
You can only meet women the following way…
1. Cold approach day time
2. Cold approach night time (bars, clubs, events)
3. Online dating
4. Social circle
5. Matchmaking/Speed dating
6. Wait for a woman to approach you
Thats it. There are no alternatives. You can only adapt. There are men that are killing it out here, so despite the social dynamics, it is possible to have a thriving and fun dating life!
In my opinion, I would say cold approach day or night and be intentional about social circle. Host your own events, get togethers, brunches, make friends with men and women and play the long game. Do it genuinely though, not just to get women.
Also, you weren’t very specific when you wrote “you keep getting stuck with sub par women”. Do you mean with looks? Personality? Or both?
If you’re talking about looks. Stop approaching the average looking ones and only approach the best looking ones. Get out of the sub par relationships as fast as possible. The time you are spending with sub par women, you could be meeting better women. Even if it’s just one date/night with a woman. That’s a night where you can be meeting 5 to 10 better options.
Draw firm boundaries for yourself.
If you approach enough beautiful high quality women, you should see some results otherwise you’re doing something completely wrong. You can be boring or say something crazy to a beautiful woman and get results, but you can’t settle for anything less.
Lastly, you wrote that women find you attractive in real life, and that you’re smart and have money and style. That’s great, it definitely helps, but that doesn’t equate to results. Being smart can sometimes be a hinderance to women. You might be intimadating or incompatible.
Women value confidence, humor, good/fun energy, lots of orgasms, adventure, someone with a backbone and a man who is willing to walk away. I’m not saying youre not providing this sort of energy, but you didn’t mention it.
Dating has changed, but you can’t control that. Only how you react to it.
I feel your frustration, it might be best to take a break from dating (no more than 3 months) so you can feel good about dating again.
Women are very intuitive when it comes to energy.
I would quit online dating entirely. Unless you’re in the top 5 to 10% of looks, it’s a losing game. It’s killing your self esteem.
I don’t know your situation, I don’t think you need to journal for everyone to see. But consider journal privately.
But to help you in this thread, I’d like to know…
1. What city do you live in? If you don’t want to answer, let us know if you live in or near a city. Is it a highly populated?
2. What is your game when you cold approach? What do you initially say to women? Do you take women on dates?
3. What do you believe in the weakest point in your game? The strongest point in your game?
4. Where are you cold approaching? Bar, club, shopping area, public transportation?
5. What type of women are you approaching? And what type of women are responding positively to you?
6. How would you describe your personality?
7. What type of woman do you want? Be very specific. What type of relationship do you want? One night stand, long term monogamous?
If you can answer these questions very very specifically, I’m sure I or others can offer some pointers.
To answer your question directly…
You can only meet women the following way…
1. Cold approach day time
2. Cold approach night time (bars, clubs, events)
3. Online dating
4. Social circle
5. Matchmaking/Speed dating
6. Wait for a woman to approach you
Thats it. There are no alternatives. You can only adapt. There are men that are killing it out here, so despite the social dynamics, it is possible to have a thriving and fun dating life!
In my opinion, I would say cold approach day or night and be intentional about social circle. Host your own events, get togethers, brunches, make friends with men and women and play the long game. Do it genuinely though, not just to get women.
Also, you weren’t very specific when you wrote “you keep getting stuck with sub par women”. Do you mean with looks? Personality? Or both?
If you’re talking about looks. Stop approaching the average looking ones and only approach the best looking ones. Get out of the sub par relationships as fast as possible. The time you are spending with sub par women, you could be meeting better women. Even if it’s just one date/night with a woman. That’s a night where you can be meeting 5 to 10 better options.
Draw firm boundaries for yourself.
If you approach enough beautiful high quality women, you should see some results otherwise you’re doing something completely wrong. You can be boring or say something crazy to a beautiful woman and get results, but you can’t settle for anything less.
Lastly, you wrote that women find you attractive in real life, and that you’re smart and have money and style. That’s great, it definitely helps, but that doesn’t equate to results. Being smart can sometimes be a hinderance to women. You might be intimadating or incompatible.
Women value confidence, humor, good/fun energy, lots of orgasms, adventure, someone with a backbone and a man who is willing to walk away. I’m not saying youre not providing this sort of energy, but you didn’t mention it.
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Have you thought about relocation? I know some people that have up too. One of them moved to madagascar, the other Gambia and they are both the happiest I've ever seen them
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- 10
Then you need coaching or nonpickup related material. General social charisma improvement and therapy could help.
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- 813
This means you probably need to improve your fundamentals some more. There's no reason why you should have been at this for years but can't get a date from an attractive woman
You're right the game has changed but this stuff still works
I've seen improvements in myself, and also have friends that are into game that improved as well. But I think your problem could be
1) You don't put in the numbers
Whenever I had friends, that wanted to learn game, ask me for advice this was always their number 1 problem. They simply weren't trying hard enough. They would swear to me how hard they were working but when I asked questions like
- How many approaches did you make this month?
- How many girls did you ask out on dates?
- How many girls did you invite back home?
- How many girls did you kiss?
I would always get blank stares.
So ask yourself and be honest. Are you really working hard enough?
2) You don't improve your fundamentals
There is a reason why it's called fundamentals, because it is the foundation of everything. If you are not constantly trying to make yourself more attractive you will struggle with attractive women
It may seem like a no brainer but attractive people prefer to spend time with other attractive people.
3) You don't track your results
This is very similar to point #1. Because although you may be working hard, you are probably still making a ton of mistakes in your process and to get better, you'll need to eliminate them.
What gets measured gets improved. And if you don't have a standardized way of tracking your actions and the results they generate then how do you know if what you're doing is working?
Breakdown your seductions into multiple small phases and use the above model for change. The process may be tedious but its worth it, because I suspect you've been using a more haphazard learning style up till this point and may need a more methodical approach to take your game to next level
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Some great suggestions overall in this thread. One point that is sometime overlooked is the location. Are you living in a place that is rich with attractive women? That usually means - but not always - a large city with universities/colleges, tourist attractions, cultural events, etc... Some countries/cities are far better than others when it comes to picking women. If that is the case, you need to move/emigrate. Your career seems important and I understand that.. Life is about trade offs. Only you can decide what is important to you. Also consider the Johari model to improve your results. We are often blind to our own shortcomings and how we are viewed by others. Feedback can be helpful here.
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- Jul 20, 2015
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metalbird, this is what you wrote in chat about a recent infield experience of yours:
afterwards, I PM'd you to talk about it and this was what you said:
I told you that you're asking for too much compliance up front. Expanding on this, you can put yourself in her shoes to see where you're going wrong:
• She's on her way somewhere, probably to meet someone she knows, and she's not going to change those plans to get dinner with a random stranger
• She's not going to tell her deeply personal thoughts to a guy she just met.
I also noticed you tend to blame the girl, or the game, for your rejections, when you should be blaming your strategy and technique.
Change your strategy and technique, and you can move towards your goal of having wonderful experiences with better women.
There’s plenty of world-class information on these forums and the main site to help you accomplish this. Why not start with learning the basics of opening? Maybe try out some speaker centred openers or reality pacing. Or, if you want to continue asking for compliance upfront, you could use some of these ideas to calibrate better.
afterwards, I PM'd you to talk about it and this was what you said:
I told you that you're asking for too much compliance up front. Expanding on this, you can put yourself in her shoes to see where you're going wrong:
• She's on her way somewhere, probably to meet someone she knows, and she's not going to change those plans to get dinner with a random stranger
• She's not going to tell her deeply personal thoughts to a guy she just met.
I also noticed you tend to blame the girl, or the game, for your rejections, when you should be blaming your strategy and technique.
Change your strategy and technique, and you can move towards your goal of having wonderful experiences with better women.
There’s plenty of world-class information on these forums and the main site to help you accomplish this. Why not start with learning the basics of opening? Maybe try out some speaker centred openers or reality pacing. Or, if you want to continue asking for compliance upfront, you could use some of these ideas to calibrate better.
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Okay, thanks for the great feedback guys. I have been very frustrated with results lately, but I've got nothing to do but keep trying.
In regards to @Skills suggestion for journaling, I've got some ideas for how I can do that anonymously and post it here.
@Bosman66, I will answer your questions in another post.
In regards to location, it's a mixture of two worlds. I live in a horribly boring suburb, but there are more than a few "professional" type women around the area I work in -- however, most of them are in LTRs. I generally "reverse commute" to the city to socialize, but even when I'm in the city, I don't generally get good results, so it doesn't seem like that's the problem; I'm not getting anywhere close to logistics.
As I'm getting older, I'm getting increasingly worried that I might be getting disqualified from the dating world due to my looks. I've never been the best looking guy, but in my younger years, I could get by as average. Now I look in the mirror and I see this old man, receding hairline, skin and bones figure... Then I think to myself, "I don't look that much different than last year, and I got a few hot dates last summer". Aging is such a gradual progression, it's hard to say. Also, it's worth noting that I see many girls that I find quite attractive dating guys who I can't believe for a minute are objectively any better looking than me.
I do need to rekindle the growth mindset about some of this stuff, which is part of what I'm trying to do here. If I'm being honest, pickup/dating stopped being "fun" about five years ago... It's been a chore ever since.
Some other things to unpack here, but I'll leave it at that for now.
In regards to @Skills suggestion for journaling, I've got some ideas for how I can do that anonymously and post it here.
@Bosman66, I will answer your questions in another post.
In regards to location, it's a mixture of two worlds. I live in a horribly boring suburb, but there are more than a few "professional" type women around the area I work in -- however, most of them are in LTRs. I generally "reverse commute" to the city to socialize, but even when I'm in the city, I don't generally get good results, so it doesn't seem like that's the problem; I'm not getting anywhere close to logistics.
As I'm getting older, I'm getting increasingly worried that I might be getting disqualified from the dating world due to my looks. I've never been the best looking guy, but in my younger years, I could get by as average. Now I look in the mirror and I see this old man, receding hairline, skin and bones figure... Then I think to myself, "I don't look that much different than last year, and I got a few hot dates last summer". Aging is such a gradual progression, it's hard to say. Also, it's worth noting that I see many girls that I find quite attractive dating guys who I can't believe for a minute are objectively any better looking than me.
I do need to rekindle the growth mindset about some of this stuff, which is part of what I'm trying to do here. If I'm being honest, pickup/dating stopped being "fun" about five years ago... It's been a chore ever since.
Some other things to unpack here, but I'll leave it at that for now.
1. What city do you live in? If you don’t want to answer, let us know if you live in or near a city. Is it a highly populated?
See above
2. What is your game when you cold approach? What do you initially say to women? Do you take women on dates?
I almost exclusively go for instadates now, because I'm convinced number closes are 100% useless in 2022.
3. What do you believe in the weakest point in your game? The strongest point in your game?
Weakest point of my game is my fundamentals, but I do everything I can. The strongest part of my game is having a "not give a fuck" attitude.
4. Where are you cold approaching? Bar, club, shopping area, public transportation?
Mostly "social" venues like city parks, coffees shops, restaurants. Rarely I'll shoot my shot in a retail venue or public transportation, but I feel like the creep factor is just too high these days, and keeps getting worse the older I get.
5. What type of women are you approaching? And what type of women are responding positively to you?
In recent memory, the women that responded most positively were married women (probably housewives) who were just flattered to have the attention, and one chick who seemed super into me, but failed my screen against serious Christians and got DQ'd quickly.
6. How would you describe your personality?
Goal-oriented. High slow charisma, weak to moderate fast charisma. Hyper-intellectual and overly analytical, but I do everything I can to suppress that for dating purposes. Generally come across initially as provider/friend candidate to women and submissive type to men, I think primarily because of my looks -- weak jawline, exceptionally tall and skinny. Do everything I can to rebut that in an interaction, but I think this comes off as creepy towards some women.
7. What type of woman do you want? Be very specific. What type of relationship do you want? One night stand, long term monogamous?
Good question. Ideally -- and this is definitely an idealistic standard, I know -- I wanna find a partner to have kids with. 5+ years younger than me for future proofing, so I can still bang her with my eyes open a decade from now. Smart, fit, good genetics. Highly educated. Emotionally healthy and aware, a good mother candidate. No substance use/abuse, no egregious mental health issues, no previous marriages or kids. Preferably a reasonably low body count for her age, though has enough sexual experience to not be a constant infidelity threat due to curiosity/inexperience.
I think I'm a solid match for everything I described above, with the exception of looks/good genetics. I wasn't blessed with a great physical body, and it shows. I know the overall standard I have is unrealistic, so it just comes down to what qualities in a partner I'm willing to compromise on. The reality of life for some of us, you know.
See above
2. What is your game when you cold approach? What do you initially say to women? Do you take women on dates?
I almost exclusively go for instadates now, because I'm convinced number closes are 100% useless in 2022.
3. What do you believe in the weakest point in your game? The strongest point in your game?
Weakest point of my game is my fundamentals, but I do everything I can. The strongest part of my game is having a "not give a fuck" attitude.
4. Where are you cold approaching? Bar, club, shopping area, public transportation?
Mostly "social" venues like city parks, coffees shops, restaurants. Rarely I'll shoot my shot in a retail venue or public transportation, but I feel like the creep factor is just too high these days, and keeps getting worse the older I get.
5. What type of women are you approaching? And what type of women are responding positively to you?
In recent memory, the women that responded most positively were married women (probably housewives) who were just flattered to have the attention, and one chick who seemed super into me, but failed my screen against serious Christians and got DQ'd quickly.
6. How would you describe your personality?
Goal-oriented. High slow charisma, weak to moderate fast charisma. Hyper-intellectual and overly analytical, but I do everything I can to suppress that for dating purposes. Generally come across initially as provider/friend candidate to women and submissive type to men, I think primarily because of my looks -- weak jawline, exceptionally tall and skinny. Do everything I can to rebut that in an interaction, but I think this comes off as creepy towards some women.
7. What type of woman do you want? Be very specific. What type of relationship do you want? One night stand, long term monogamous?
Good question. Ideally -- and this is definitely an idealistic standard, I know -- I wanna find a partner to have kids with. 5+ years younger than me for future proofing, so I can still bang her with my eyes open a decade from now. Smart, fit, good genetics. Highly educated. Emotionally healthy and aware, a good mother candidate. No substance use/abuse, no egregious mental health issues, no previous marriages or kids. Preferably a reasonably low body count for her age, though has enough sexual experience to not be a constant infidelity threat due to curiosity/inexperience.
I think I'm a solid match for everything I described above, with the exception of looks/good genetics. I wasn't blessed with a great physical body, and it shows. I know the overall standard I have is unrealistic, so it just comes down to what qualities in a partner I'm willing to compromise on. The reality of life for some of us, you know.
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2012
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