Next Time/Next Date; Attraction Expiring

[Paulie Walnuts]

I'll be honest, sometimes I don't text back for 1-2 days, sometimes I text back in 6 hours; could this be sending some girls into auto-reject?

Also as far as pulling goes, my recent experience with a Tinder date went great, we had coffee, walked her outside; made out with her on the bridge overlooking the water. However when it was time to pull I balked (I'm not sure if the window was... I'm not looking for anything to serious right now, I have the house to myself when my dad's out of town). I pushed on the house by herself, said I wanted to come over and meet her cats; but the pull was weak as fuck (like really meek tone, maybe meek isn't the right word but you get the idea) and she said: "Even with Tinder I like to go on a few dates before we go home together".

Second date, we got food (her suggestion, also referenced the fact that I don't pay for dates in a neutral tone). Planned to pull her to the park for "night swimming" but she has to take a certain medication at a certain time, so I let her get away again).

We make plans for a third date over text and she flakes (in a really shitty manner too, like didn't respond to confirmation text and then just says sorry I'm with my mom this week; then when I said hope everything is ok, she said "I just partied too hard this weekend' so she was probably getting dicked down at one of those fraternity parties she likes haha).

I'm 90% sure I missed an escalation window somewhere in this situation (or multiple ones) and attraction expired. My problem is I have no issue pulling girls I don't give a shit about (girls that are 6's and 7's), but once I get into the 8 range I balk at pulling and start going into boyfriend territory and then start failing tests.

I'm still taking a lot of what women say at face value, one of my RSD buddies approached two tipsy girls outside a big nightclub as it let out, the hotter of the pair called him a creeper and basically pulled me to the side instead (because I "wasn't creepy"), RSD guy did well with the friend anyway and kept trying to lead and pull them somewhere else but my leading was God awful and the blonde (the one I was with) basically lead me away about 2 blocks and said she wanted to talk to me alone. I'm not sure what happened but I started behaving really beta and agreed to an actual date with her (the conversation was kind of good and there was some attraction but then something went off somewhere), because she tells me: "she's a radical feminist and I'd better be a feminist too" (obviously I know she's trying to make me a white knight or chode so I said: "I agree with equal rights but I'm not a feminist".) Her friend leaves RSD guy and after trying to convince me of the virtues of feminism for like 15 minutes the hot blonde starts crying and her friend lays into me and then they leave saying: "I'M DEF NOT GOING ON A DATE WITH YOU!!" Lol ok.

My point is I'm still balking when it comes to hotter girls, I've read enough articles and forum posts and pulled enough + had enough reference experience to know what to do and know that what this site teaches is correct; but for some reason when I get up to that 8 range I always just assume there will be another chance :/.

The girl I slept with last night is the one I pulled on a 2nd date because I literally said we should go do crossword puzzles at her place, overcame her LMR (and she hadn't shaved, meaning she wasn't planning on sleeping with me that night, something I've learned to recognize is when the girl was already planning on sleeping with you or there was a chance of it she'll typically be fully shaved in my experience).

How do I apply this same philosophy to hotter girls? I know this is simply a variation of oneitis + not having abundance mentality but....

If you don't move fast you don't get the girl, I've seen this time and time again and I keep believing in societies bullshit! FML!

 

[Quatzolect]

Trackrunner12, lot of questions so I'll try to answer them all.

Isometimes I don't text back for 1-2 days, sometimes I text back in 6 hours; could this be sending some girls into auto-reject?

Some girls may auto-reject because of this, but chance are the girls who will do stuff with you aren't going to. So your doing well here, I wouldn't worry.

Your Right about the Tinder girl. I would say you missed an escalation window. And if you know what your doing, and only balking in the 8-10 range, then I would say you have your problem pretty sussed out. I didn't really struggle with that problem too much (a little bit though) however I had a friend that sound just like you, so I'll tell you what worked for him. Basically, you have to stop rating girls on a scale. Sure some are hotter than others, but if your struggling with this than get it into your mind that they are just sex-objects. Drexel has a good article on that I believe so check it out.

As for taking what girls say at face value, yeah that's not really what your want to be doing. Though, in you RSD guy example, I would say that you could probably have found success if you either worked the tension a bit more or had a more define purposes for the interaction. With the purpose theory, the remedy is just to make sure you have clear purpose set out. If It was the tension it sounded like you deflated it too much. The moment you two got alone together I would have started either escalating or pulling to where ever was nearest instead of starting to chat again. If she did start talking about negative topics like the feminism, just give her a bored look in an attempt to cut the thread then and there. If she persisted on the feminism topic, I would have said something a bit more along the lines of a playful response of 'I believe in equal rights of females as well; they should all be allowed to suck my cock'(tried this a few times myself and it either really spikes attraction or really kills it, probably because it's bold but hints at me having no standards perhaps). You could try something more serious if it's more fitting to your style, but at this point I personally would just be pushing for the close.

I always just assume there will be another chance:/

The way I kicked this belief's butt is by realizing that when I thought that, I was just being lazy and/or fearing rejection and that while there may be another chance, why not just take the opportunity when it presents itself.

Best of luck bro.

 

[Seppuku]

Hey Trackrunner,

I'll be honest, sometimes I don't text back for 1-2 days, sometimes I text back in 6 hours; could this be sending some girls into auto-reject?

Shouldn't be a problem.

"Even with Tinder I like to go on a few dates before we go home together"

Utter bullshit.

Second date, we got food (her suggestion, also referenced the fact that I don't pay for dates in a neutral tone). Planned to pull her to the park for "night swimming" but she has to take a certain medication at a certain time, so I let her get away again).

We make plans for a third date over text and she flakes (in a really shitty manner too, like didn't respond to confirmation text and then just says sorry I'm with my mom this week; then when I said hope everything is ok, she said "I just partied too hard this weekend' so she was probably getting dicked down at one of those fraternity parties she likes haha).

I'm 90% sure I missed an escalation window somewhere in this situation (or multiple ones) and attraction expired. My problem is I have no issue pulling girls I don't give a shit about (girls that are 6's and 7's), but once I get into the 8 range I balk at pulling and start going into boyfriend territory and then start failing tests.

As you are aware, the time to pull her was on the first date. She sensed you were coming out of a weak frame, and walked you in the park. She gave you another chance with the second date, but again you showed weakness. After that, it was done. Meantime she likely got shagged by another guy as you pointed out ;-)

By the way your pull has to come from a position of authority. Gentle, but not like if you ask for her permission. It's all in the way you frame it.

I'm still taking a lot of what women say at face value, one of my RSD buddies approached two tipsy girls outside a big nightclub as it let out, the hotter of the pair called him a creeper and basically pulled me to the side instead (because I "wasn't creepy"), RSD guy did well with the friend anyway and kept trying to lead and pull them somewhere else but my leading was God awful and the blonde (the one I was with) basically lead me away about 2 blocks and said she wanted to talk to me alone. I'm not sure what happened but I started behaving really beta and agreed to an actual date with her (the conversation was kind of good and there was some attraction but then something went off somewhere), because she tells me: "she's a radical feminist and I'd better be a feminist too" (obviously I know she's trying to make me a white knight or chode so I said: "I agree with equal rights but I'm not a feminist".) Her friend leaves RSD guy and after trying to convince me of the virtues of feminism for like 15 minutes the hot blonde starts crying and her friend lays into me and then they leave saying: "I'M DEF NOT GOING ON A DATE WITH YOU!!" Lol ok.

She led you all the time, and you let her lead you. The "Feminist" bullshit was framing you out. You let all this happen, so she decided you're not good enough.

My point is I'm still balking when it comes to hotter girls, I've read enough articles and forum posts and pulled enough + had enough reference experience to know what to do and know that what this site teaches is correct; but for some reason when I get up to that 8 range I always just assume there will be another chance :/.

Always assume it's the last time you see her, ever. But you already know everything I said so far ;-) You just don't apply it.

How do I apply this same philosophy to hotter girls? I know this is simply a variation of oneitis + not having abundance mentality but....

You need to build up more confidence and learn how to keep a stronger frame in front of the 8+. Maybe what you need is more experience and lays with girls 6-8 for now? Most of my girls are in this range. And interestingly, the best in bed are not necessarily the 8s.

Cheers,
Seppuku

 

[Seppuku]

Another note:

I use essentially two date templates, depending exclusively on the amount of time I have ahead of me (and not depending on the girl, or how it goes). I know which template I'm going to use, before the first date.

1. If not enough time ahead (like up to 3hrs): two dates model. First date: build up her excitement and comfort around me, and leave her wanting for more. Second date: at my place for a dinner or a drink. Escalate.

2. If enough time ahead (3hrs +): Meet her early, simple date, drinks (1h or 2h max), build up excitement and comfort. Then propose to listen music at my place and enjoy the view. Bring home. Escalate.

in 2. my rejection rate when I pull is fairly low. Maybe 10%?

Hope this helps.
Seppuku

 

[Paulie Walnuts]

@Quatozolect

I'll def read Drexel's article, I think because of my upbringing I still struggle with the understanding that women are genetically programmed to like men who move fast (alphas) and regardless of what they say or society says; that's just the way it is period. Even my own God damn reference experience points to that (the three girls I currently have in rotation as FWB/Casual Dates I moved fast with and took them to bed within 1-2 dates, mostly 1).

What happened was the blonde called me "Non creepy guy that actually wanted to get to know her", that's what had me acting the way I was (for some reason whenever a girl says that to me I lose my frame, I"m not sure if it's because I don't want to be labeled a creeper?), you're right though I should have either spiked or killed the attraction, ended up wasting like an hour on that girl and getting home really late -_-.

@Seppuku

I'm just going to continuously repeat to myself that there is no option for a second date or to number close (I think that will help my frame).

You're also right about the weakness with the Tinder girl, I came from a good dominant frame everywhere else but just balked at the pull. Perhaps knowing that she was probably getting DP'd by a team of douchey frat guys will help me remember that the time is now and there is no second chance; ever (I'm not being sarcastic either, that will piss me off and stop me from treating the 8+'s like China dolls). I've got to get my persistence in person down (now that I've come away from my old frame of chasing over text).

The only reason she said the "few dates" line was to test my resolve right?

As for the feminist blonde you're right, she led, framed me out and kicked the shit out of me lol. It was extremely embarrassing (even worse that I realized what had happened, instead of most guys who would just be ignorant and think she was a nutjob). I noticed she didn't even bring that stuff up until about 15 minutes into the conversation; which means I probably failed enough tests for her to start giving me harder ones (like this).

The big kicker as far as your date template for me goes, is I don't have my own spot; it's either got to be her place or my car (and I have pretty serious medical issues so I won't be moving out anytime soon). However I can and have pulled to both so that shouldn't stop me.

I think the philosophy of it being the last time I'll see her will be pretty good at helping me push the persistence, it's not just this site and you guys either my own reference experience points to the same thing. I'm still trying to fight my way out of the social conditioning.

 

[Seppuku]

Hey man,

The only reason she said the "few dates" line was to test my resolve right?

It's a frame. View it more as a wall she puts in front to make it harder for you. She's testing you if you will manage to overcome the wall. It's testing your masculine frame. Usually you get this, because you already have failed other tests. In your case, she already sensed your weak resolve.

Ideally she's in your bed before she even has the time to formulate such a frame. But once in a while you will have to face this or similar. When I started I faced mainly two frames. (1) The "all guys want sex" frame. This sort of forces you to respond with "Not me", after which you are done. (2) The "Where are we going?" frame. It sort of forces you to answer a socially acceptable place to go, i.e. not your bed. I don't have those much more because the girl is in my bed quicker than she anticipated.

But the way to handle a "Where?" frame, is to keep your own strong frame, and answer a no bullshit "We're going to my place now.", coming from a position of authority, with a confident tone that is not asking for approval. If you keep a strong frame, you will be surprised to hear her answer like "OK". In any case, it's better lose the girl than lose the frame.

The big kicker as far as your date template for me goes, is I don't have my own spot; it's either got to be her place or my car (and I have pretty serious medical issues so I won't be moving out anytime soon). However I can and have pulled to both so that shouldn't stop me.

Then build your date around bringing her later to your car. Always the end goal in mind, you build all your date around this goal. Build your own templates, adapted to your situation.

I think the philosophy of it being the last time I'll see her will be pretty good at helping me push the persistence, it's not just this site and you guys either my own reference experience points to the same thing. I'm still trying to fight my way out of the social conditioning.

This has helped me tremendously. It took me about a year to realize, and apply it successfully. So many girls I lost, thinking that I would have a second date.

I realize now that with more experience I can organize my seduction around a two dates system, pretty consistently. But it's more advanced. So I would strongly recommend you stick to the mindset: "It's the last time I meet her, ever".

 

[Paulie Walnuts]

Yep, also even when I've persisted on trying to go back to the girls place and failed it seemed that she was still far more interested in seeing me again than when I didn't even try.

I'm not sure how to respond to the all guys want sex frame, first I tried the "Not me" thing, which worked about 30% of the time (and only after multiple dates, "boyfriend zone"), then I tried to refute that point logically and framing it that all women want sex with the right kind of guys, that worked a little bit better but not by much.

I'm still trying to get to the point where I can beat those questions and tests, are those perhaps subjects I should just avoid for right now and just keep guiding towards my car at the end of the night/date?

One of the girl's I'm seeing right now is a virgin though and I'm really just not even sure how to move that one forward, as far as new one's I go out with I'll stick to the basics; move fast like it's the last time you see them period.