Nightgame recommendations for living far from the venues

[ChrisXKiss]

My place is around a 15 minute drive from the central/club/bar areas of the city. And I was wondering what is the best way to approach nightgame with these logistics.

In order to get a girl back to my place I have to get her in some taxi or uber to mine ( or by train I guess which takes even longer ), so it always feels like it's very obvious what we are doing, leaving the venue to go somewhere for sex together.

I've managed to pull only once directly from a club in fact, plus few more times from nightstreet game, or to a girl's place that was close by.

And I do like the vibe of nightgame, it has simply started to feel like I don't know what process I can follow consistently all the way to the close, which demotivates me.

When I get dates for example, I know I can invite girls to 2-3 places in my area that close earlier, and then pull them home from there.

I suppose some ways are to target girls that live close to me, or near the venue so we can go back together smoothly, focus on learning how to have sex in bathrooms or back-alleys, and walking around my area the time people return from their nights out.

I'd like to hear what kind of game strategy would be advised for same night lays in this situation. I generally go out solo, so I feel there are not many: "Let's go have an afterparty" offers I can make, when it will obviously be me with the girls, and I sense that a girl has to really logically decide: "Ok I don't mind sleeping with this guy", in order to commit to get in the same cab with me all the way to my place, when she may be staying somewhere not even close to there.

 

[Spike]

And I do like the vibe of nightgame, it has simply started to feel like I don't know what process I can follow consistently all the way to the close, which demotivates me.

Follow the strategy @TomInHo laid out here

What is some routine based game that is the EASIEST way for guys who aren't good at game to get laid?

I think alot of the way that alot of this site works can be kinda backwards at times for beginners. The entire introduction of the site is usually getting guys to focus heavy on things like fundamentals which I think is very important as well and has its place. If you're a more attractive guy...

www.skilledseducer.com

 

[Skills]

15 minutes is really good logistics lol ..

 

[average_daygamer]

My place is around a 15 minute drive from the central/club/bar areas of the city. And I was wondering what is the best way to approach nightgame with these logistics.

In order to get a girl back to my place I have to get her in some taxi or uber to mine ( or by train I guess which takes even longer ), so it always feels like it's very obvious what we are doing, leaving the venue to go somewhere for sex together.

I've managed to pull only once directly from a club in fact, plus few more times from nightstreet game, or to a girl's place that was close by.

And I do like the vibe of nightgame, it has simply started to feel like I don't know what process I can follow consistently all the way to the close, which demotivates me.

When I get dates for example, I know I can invite girls to 2-3 places in my area that close earlier, and then pull them home from there.

I suppose some ways are to target girls that live close to me, or near the venue so we can go back together smoothly, focus on learning how to have sex in bathrooms or back-alleys, and walking around my area the time people return from their nights out.

I'd like to hear what kind of game strategy would be advised for same night lays in this situation. I generally go out solo, so I feel there are not many: "Let's go have an afterparty" offers I can make, when it will obviously be me with the girls, and I sense that a girl has to really logically decide: "Ok I don't mind sleeping with this guy", in order to commit to get in the same cab with me all the way to my place, when she may be staying somewhere not even close to there.

This is interesting, the part about nightgame street approach, I mean.

How do you bypass the resistance of the girls either bring on their way to a venue or on their way back from a venue.

I always find they want to get to the venue so aren't interested, or they are coming back from a venue so aren't interested.

I have a similar situation, I live in a town no nightlife and so have a problem of a 45 minute bus journey to the town where I have to go to nightgame in.

So really my only option is a number close, which, realistically, is going to result in a firm flake.

If I want to hit the club to approach, I have to book either a hotel room or an Airbnb.

On the off chance that a miracle happens, I can bring the girl back there and get laid with her.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

Follow the strategy @TomInHo laid out here

I ha read that. The thing I was wondering mostly about is this part:
8) If she lives nearby: Suggest going to her place to “watch some TikToks”
9) If you live nearby: Invite her over to “hang some more.”
Thought that nearby means walking distance, but it’s possible that if she is DTF and you just propose to grab an uber it’s one and the same?

15 minutes is really good logistics lol ..

I never said it’s bad logistics lol

What I am saying is I cannot do the let’s go for a bite, walk, to chill nearby and casually bring them up my place.

So I am wondering if the fact that I have to get them in a car to come back to my place changes somehow the dynamic and how I should structure the pull.

In a way I struggle to find plausible deniability, because it’s clearly not the most convenient place to go for anything else apart from sex.

I don’t know, it could be that there are enough DTF girls that if you go out and start inviting them home, they will come no matter how you make the pull.

That’s how I’ve gone about it so far, but it feels very hit or miss.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

How do you bypass the resistance of the girls either bring on their way to a venue or on their way back from a venue.

I always find they want to get to the venue so aren't interested, or they are coming back from a venue so aren't interested.

If I catch them going to a venue and I am going somewhere else, I generally approach normally and go for a number close.

If they are coming back I will still approach normally and depending on the vibe I will go for a pull or a number.

It’s not like they will all be open to talking to someone in these scenarios but this goes for most situations I would say.

During the night you’d have to be a bit more calibrated regarding how you do street approaches, because most of the people that would approach at this time are not ones you would like interacting with. In daygame it’s probably just some random guy trying to sell something, while in nightgame it could be some drunk dude or creep that could harm you. So it makes sense that the walls are more up then.

If you can approach and get positive reactions in the daytime though, it shouldn’t be that different.

 

[Will_V]

What I am saying is I cannot do the let’s go for a bite, walk, to chill nearby and casually bring them up my place.

So I am wondering if the fact that I have to get them in a car to come back to my place changes somehow the dynamic and how I should structure the pull.

In a way I struggle to find plausible deniability, because it’s clearly not the most convenient place to go for anything else apart from sex.

I don’t know, it could be that there are enough DTF girls that if you go out and start inviting them home, they will come no matter how you make the pull.

That’s how I’ve gone about it so far, but it feels very hit or miss.

First of all women know when things are headed toward the bedroom, it doesn't matter whether you go for a walk first.

Plausible deniability is a cooperative thing, it's not about you knowing and her not knowing. It's about you both knowing, but her being able to deny to an invisible third party that sex is the express intention of what is happening. So assuming she's interested in the possibility of sex, and she feels ready for it, any excuse will do. Think of plausible deniability as what she could say to her dad if he happened to turn up then and there.

It's likely that one or both of two things are happening:

1. She's not ready to be taken home, and needs more build up.
2. You are afraid of her knowing your intentions.

The first can be fixed by taking a walk but also by simply going to another venue or two in the area before taking her home.

For the second, well you gotta be more comfortable knowing that she knows that you want to fuck her. Just remember that the strength of your desire is a woman's psychological security that she is doing the right thing.

As for the 'any excuse will do' part, have something interesting to show her at home. You could just suggest a movie, but if you need to feel that you have more of a rationale make it something a little more extraordinary.

 

[Skills]

I ha read that. The thing I was wondering mostly about is this part:
8) If she lives nearby: Suggest going to her place to “watch some TikToks”
9) If you live nearby: Invite her over to “hang some more.”
Thought that nearby means walking distance, but it’s possible that if she is DTF and you just propose to grab an uber it’s one and the same?


I never said it’s bad logistics lol

What I am saying is I cannot do the let’s go for a bite, walk, to chill nearby and casually bring them up my place.

So I am wondering if the fact that I have to get them in a car to come back to my place changes somehow the dynamic and how I should structure the pull.

In a way I struggle to find plausible deniability, because it’s clearly not the most convenient place to go for anything else apart from sex.

I don’t know, it could be that there are enough DTF girls that if you go out and start inviting them home, they will come no matter how you make the pull.

That’s how I’ve gone about it so far, but it feels very hit or miss.

As @Will_V say ideally she already knows at point of extraction, and actually "ubber, lift, taxi" does give you an advantage if the show up fast (the thing is that the timing has to be very calibrated), i personally pull to my car or to her car, or i am the driver (but i understand not what you are doing).... The "plausible deniability" does not really matter other than "lets fuck" "lets go to my house" these can work but to direct lower odds can trigger bad other guys that try experience..... art works really good, animals (atomic bomb), even i have used "coffe/tacos" "after party" does not matter at point of extraction, but i would go indirect.....

The difference between plausible deniability and bait and switch and when to use both.....

Alright guys, i already explain this in a thread of i Believe @Shawn but yesterday a dude in my crew face the same issue, so i will explain here for everyone, and if it happens i just can be lazy and link this post.... 1st what is plausible deniability (i kind of like this one from urban...

www.skilledseducer.com

 

[Spike]

What I am saying is I cannot do the let’s go for a bite, walk, to chill nearby and casually bring them up my place.

So I am wondering if the fact that I have to get them in a car to come back to my place changes somehow the dynamic and how I should structure the pull.

In a way I struggle to find plausible deniability, because it’s clearly not the most convenient place to go for anything else apart from sex.

I don’t know, it could be that there are enough DTF girls that if you go out and start inviting them home, they will come no matter how you make the pull.

That’s how I’ve gone about it so far, but it feels very hit or miss

I know what you’re talking about. When girls are out. A lot of them want to keep the party going. And taking a 15 minute car ride to go to some dudes house = an end to the party. They’ll do it if they’re mentality done partying and want some dick (why again the strategy is to arrive at the club late. When a lot of girls are already in that state of mind). But even then sometimes you’ll meet girls at 2am that like you but aren’t ready to fuck yet. In those time, hearing that your place is just up the street will get more girls coming to your place VS 15 min cab ride. Where they’ll instead ask for your contact info and then not respond the next day.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

It's likely that one or both of two things are happening:

1. She's not ready to be taken home, and needs more build up.
2. You are afraid of her knowing your intentions.

Yeah I would say that my issue is mostly the first. At least most of the objections I’ve received when pulling have been about how fast it is or that we are having a good time but they don’t want something more.

In fact a reason why I started thinking about plausible deniability and the issue of telling them straight to take a cab and go to my place is that it felt as a too obvious let’s go have sex proposition.

But maybe if I got more build up it wouldn’t matter that much. Which makes it a question how to get enough build up.

The first can be fixed by taking a walk but also by simply going to another venue or two in the area before taking her home.

This I understand in theory, in practice though it feels very unsustainable when most girls are out with friends or groups and they won’t easily leave them to go with me to another place.

I have tried going with them as a group to another place, but it hasn’t changed much, at the end of the night they usually split and go to their places and I am left to go to mine.

Of course there have been scenarios were a girl liked me enough and wasn’t too attached to the friend she went out with, so we got more time together, but this is so random I can’t really base my night out on it.

In fact the club pull I had was a girl I met in one club, caught her outside when she was leaving, she said she wanted to go to another club with a friend, I agreed because I had a feeling she was into me, and after some time in the other club she told me herself she was tired and wanted to leave.

The question is in the end how much it makes sense to be jumping from one venue to the other during the night with the hope that a girl is gonna get more compliant eventually.

If I were to find a girl that was alone, or pretty independent from her group I probably would do it, but almost none of the times I’ve hanged around a girl and her friend(s) I eventually got her to come back with me.

 

[Skills]

But maybe if I got more build up it wouldn’t matter that much. Which makes it a question how to get enough build up.

^ yes! but even with a lot of build up sometimes won't be there, you will get a feel as you are gaining experience...

This I understand in theory, in practice though it feels very unsustainable when most girls are out with friends or groups and they won’t easily leave them to go with me to another place.

^ yes which is the point i was making about the "show up to the club at the end guides" what about the friends? exactly...

I have tried going with them as a group to another place, but it hasn’t changed much, at the end of the night they usually split and go to their places and I am left to go to mine.

^ yes! this is what i call "staying in set" they will "split up" you need to be part of the "split up" with your target and leave together... (i rather have a car, makes things much easier imho), or you need to find a way to cont. with you in the "split" that is the hardest part brother but again that is why the "build up" is there...

Of course there have been scenarios were a girl liked me enough and wasn’t too attached to the friend she went out with, so we got more time together, but this is so random I can’t really base my night out on it.

^ correct!

In fact the club pull I had was a girl I met in one club, caught her outside when she was leaving, she said she wanted to go to another club with a friend, I agreed because I had a feeling she was into me, and after some time in the other club she told me herself she was tired and wanted to leave.

The question is in the end how much it makes sense to be jumping from one venue to the other during the night with the hope that a girl is gonna get more compliant eventually.

^ is a risk you have to take brother, some will happened, some won't but you need to get a feel, you can control what you can control.... Which is a problem i have with most "guides" that are as you can see totally not applicable to now a days... Nothing you did wrong, again, but you need to get her "influence" "seduction" to be able to go with you, but yes i had that issue girls were into me, wanting to fuck, and the early shit, actually it happens with mrs. skills.... You can always try a second encounter, though lower odds, again this is what we have to deal with now a days...

If I were to find a girl that was alone, or pretty independent from her group I probably would do it, but almost none of the times I’ve hanged around a girl and her friend(s) I eventually got her to come back with me.

^ bingo again why i think a lot guides "sound good" in theory total not applicable to the today environment...


p.s. @ChrisXKiss this is how in my opinion NOW A DAYS, for the most of us the pull will look like as an example:

LR - Short n Sweet

Dudes! I went out last night to the usual mid-week venue I frequent with a wing, it can be hit or miss after a bank holiday but it was very busy and was a very good night. It was very busy early on where it usually starts of quiet but it was a nice change of pace. Wardrobe / Venue / Attention...

www.skilledseducer.com

 

[Spike]

^ yes which is the point i was making about the "show up to the club at the end guides" what about the friends? exactly...

You get in the taxi with them.

 

[Skills]

You get in the taxi with them.

you mean ubber/lift yes, but if you just "got there" at the end, and just "met" the friends, is wayyyy more difficult that if you were already in the group get me.... is very unlikely "hey we just got out of the club" met dude 5-10 minutes ago, lets leave all together in the ubber she just ordered (i personally) have not seen it happen...

I am sure op knows what i am talking about...

 

[Spike]

is very unlikely "hey we just got out of the club" met dude 5-10 minutes ago, lets leave all together in the ubber she just ordered (i personally) have not seen it happen...

It happened to me multiple times

 

[Skills]

It happened to me multiple times

I have done it multiple times pulling to my car..... Since i don't really do ubber/lift or taxi it would be better if you explain to op how to do it practically... "just get in the taxi with her brah" total useless advice....

 

[TomInHo]

I ha read that. The thing I was wondering mostly about is this part:
8) If she lives nearby: Suggest going to her place to “watch some TikToks”
9) If you live nearby: Invite her over to “hang some more.”
Thought that nearby means walking distance, but it’s possible that if she is DTF and you just propose to grab an uber it’s one and the same?

15 minutes is close, man. “Nearby” just means you live closer to the venue than she does

In my city, some girls live as far as an hour away

You can just tell girls you live 5 minutes away by car. Once they’re in the car and on the way, just keep the conversation going and distract them from how far it actually is

What I am saying is I cannot do the let’s go for a bite, walk, to chill nearby and casually bring them up my place.

You don’t have to walk. If they’re interested, they’ll go with you whether it’s in your car, an Uber, or whatever.

You don’t need to trick them into going to your place especially if they’re already into you.

So I am wondering if the fact that I have to get them in a car to come back to my place changes somehow the dynamic and how I should structure the pull.

No

In a way I struggle to find plausible deniability, because it’s clearly not the most convenient place to go for anything else apart from sex.

Errrr.... that's the whole point

They know when you say lets' go to my place to watch TikTok or get a drink it means "Lets go have sex"

It's just a more socially acceptable way of saying it

I don’t know, it could be that there are enough DTF girls that if you go out and start inviting them home, they will come no matter how you make the pull.

When girls are truly DTF, they’ll make it so easy for you it’s laughable

You just need to lead the situation and stop overthinking because you’ve got to understand. . . she wants sex too

Funny enough, DTF girls can actually have it rough.

Sometimes they really want to hook up, but they end up with a guy who just talks, talks and talks…

Or worse, a guy who’s too scared to escalate but won't leave either

And since they’re women, most won’t feel comfortable outright saying they want sex.

Instead, they’ll put the burden on the guy to read the signs and take the lead

So they can stay blameless and later pull the “it just happened” card

In fact a reason why I started thinking about plausible deniability and the issue of telling them straight to take a cab and go to my place is that it felt as a too obvious let’s go have sex proposition.

Then tell them you want to make them a drink or show them a book, play a game. . . doesn't really matter what excuse you use

This I understand in theory, in practice though it feels very unsustainable when most girls are out with friends or groups and they won’t easily leave them to go with me to another place.

DTF girls will leave with you or they’ll invite you to wherever they’re going so they can spend time with you

The above is a non-issue if you’re meeting girls who are into you off rip

I’ve had women talk to their friends, and then the friends magically disappear, leaving us alone. . . multiple times

I’ve had girls all come with me in my car. Then I dropped their friends off somewhere while they let me take my target home alone

I’ve even had friends literally tell me, “Take care of her.”

It’s really astonishing how different women can behave when they actually want to fuck you and you don’t have to trick anybody

I have tried going with them as a group to another place, but it hasn’t changed much, at the end of the night they usually split and go to their places and I am left to go to mine.

Well, were you spending time with a woman who actually wanted to fuck, or one that just wanted to socialize?

Those are not the same thing

It’s also why I mentioned being comfortable escalating in that post and testing for physical interest early

Because if you're talking to a girl and she’s unreceptive to your escalation, it’s obviously going to require more effort and might not even be worth it

But if you find a girl who responds well to your escalation and is into you, then it becomes more of a game of endurance. You just have to stay in the set until you get an opportunity to pull

Yet this problem can easily be bypassed by just gaming later in the night

Because the issue of needing to endure mostly happens when you're gaming earlier or in the middle of the night

Toward the end of the night, there’s usually not much time left to “endure,” unless you're both heading to an afterparty

And even then, you can often close there relatively quickly

Of course there have been scenarios were a girl liked me enough and wasn’t too attached to the friend she went out with, so we got more time together, but this is so random I can’t really base my night out on it.

See... the whole point is spending time with women that liked you enough

Get it now?

That post I made is not about seduction or influence. It was solely about finding girls into you off rip and having a way to close them quickly

And if running into girls that like you is too random that very fixable by

1) Improving you upfront presentation to be a "type" for a specific "type" of girls
2) Go to venues where those types of girls are abundant


If you dress or present yourself like a typical Joe Schmo this is not going work. Women do not fantasize about having one night stands with a normal guy

NO

They fantasize about fucking a guy that's "their type" (skater, finance bro, artist, bad boy, meathead, surfer bro etc.)

Do not confuse this with being good looking, it's actually all about looking good to a specific type of girl

In fact the club pull I had was a girl I met in one club, caught her outside when she was leaving, she said she wanted to go to another club with a friend, I agreed because I had a feeling she was into me, and after some time in the other club she told me herself she was tired and wanted to leave.

What did I just say about DTF girls? They make it easy

And you pretty much followed the outline in my previous post even if you don't realize it yet

They will break a lot of rules for you and help you during seductions

A lot of the times you just have to focus on sticking with them and things magically seem to work out

Again just a reminder.... my original post had nothing to do with dealing with neutral women or persuasion.

It was all about improving you odds of running into DTF girls and closing them

 

[Will_V]

Yeah I would say that my issue is mostly the first. At least most of the objections I’ve received when pulling have been about how fast it is or that we are having a good time but they don’t want something more.

In fact a reason why I started thinking about plausible deniability and the issue of telling them straight to take a cab and go to my place is that it felt as a too obvious let’s go have sex proposition.

But maybe if I got more build up it wouldn’t matter that much. Which makes it a question how to get enough build up.



This I understand in theory, in practice though it feels very unsustainable when most girls are out with friends or groups and they won’t easily leave them to go with me to another place.

I have tried going with them as a group to another place, but it hasn’t changed much, at the end of the night they usually split and go to their places and I am left to go to mine.

Of course there have been scenarios were a girl liked me enough and wasn’t too attached to the friend she went out with, so we got more time together, but this is so random I can’t really base my night out on it.

In fact the club pull I had was a girl I met in one club, caught her outside when she was leaving, she said she wanted to go to another club with a friend, I agreed because I had a feeling she was into me, and after some time in the other club she told me herself she was tired and wanted to leave.

The question is in the end how much it makes sense to be jumping from one venue to the other during the night with the hope that a girl is gonna get more compliant eventually.

If I were to find a girl that was alone, or pretty independent from her group I probably would do it, but almost none of the times I’ve hanged around a girl and her friend(s) I eventually got her to come back with me.

I suggest you read @Fluxcapacitor's lay reports, he does a great job of dealing with all these issues.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

The "plausible deniability" does not really matter other than "lets fuck" "lets go to my house" these can work but to direct lower odds can trigger bad other guys that try experience..... art works really good, animals (atomic bomb), even i have used "coffe/tacos" "after party" does not matter at point of extraction, but i would go indirect.....

Yeah I have said things like let’s go to my house in the past, and although it has worked sometimes I felt it’s probably better to offer something a bit different.

Then I also used some bait and switch, but I had a similar experience with you. I even used pyco but the LMR was so heavy I couldn’t break through.

At this point I feel my go to is to establish some sexual frames and then invite her home with something indirect, eg let’s go have a sweet from my home country. It worked great for my last date pull.

this is how in my opinion NOW A DAYS, for the most of us the pull will look like as an example:

Yeah hadn’t read it before but I agree. I can see how the parts of this interaction would work out in real life more or less.

One of the main things I’ve liked about your recent nightgame analyses is how much of a social circle game it has become.

When I am going out I seem to see people not only hanging out with their friends, but also knowing the other people in the scene, it feels like if you are an outsider you have to really socialise a lot to get somewhere.

u mean ubber/lift yes, but if you just "got there" at the end, and just "met" the friends, is wayyyy more difficult that if you were already in the group get me.... is very unlikely "hey we just got out of the club" met dude 5-10 minutes ago, lets leave all together in the ubber she just ordered (i personally) have not seen it happen...

Just to mention here that in my area it is in fact pretty normal for people to go back home even with public transport in the middle of the night. It is very safe and works really well, so it is possible that they won’t even go for an uber a lot of times.

The reason why I mention the uber is because it feels way better to just grab one and go to my place, as a faster solution to complete the pull when the girl is down for it.

But it could easily be that the girls would not even get into an uber themselves, and then it would be about trying to have your girl take the same train with you and stop at your station.

Which anyway shouldn’t matter if she is DTF, mentioning it because it adds another layer in the take the same uber with them idea.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

Well, were you spending time with a woman who actually wanted to fuck, or one that just wanted to socialize?

Those are not the same thing

It’s also why I mentioned being comfortable escalating in that post and testing for physical interest early

Because if you're talking to a girl and she’s unreceptive to your escalation, it’s obviously going to require more effort and might not even be worth it

But if you find a girl who responds well to your escalation and is into you, then it becomes more of a game of endurance. You just have to stay in the set until you get an opportunity to pull

Honestly some women I spent time with were more into socialising, but were hot so I thought, whatever let’s see how this turns out.

There were others though that I had escalated, they were kissing me too, I had talked to their friends and they seemed to like me, even telling their friend she is free to go with me if she wants to, but in the end they just didn’t.

So I’ve gotten to the point of wondering how much escalation is even desirable, and how I should be going about it. I am not really uncomfortable to make a move, it’s more that I don’t know if it is even good at this point, or it just gives them enough validation and they don’t want more.

And if running into girls that like you is too random that very fixable by

1) Improving you upfront presentation to be a "type" for a specific "type" of girls
2) Go to venues where those types of girls are abundant


If you dress or present yourself like a typical Joe Schmo this is not going work. Women do not fantasize about having one night stands with a normal guy

NO

They fantasize about fucking a guy that's "their type" (skater, finance bro, artist, bad boy, meathead, surfer bro etc.)

Do not confuse this with being good looking, it's actually all about looking good to a specific type of girl

Yeah I won’t lie, probably this is my main issue seduction wise in general.

I feel my biggest issue is in fact that I don’t know what kind of type of guy I want to show. I mean I can go to bachata parties, to upscale lounges, to techno clubs and enjoy them, while also like the women in all these places. So I am not even sure what it makes sense to build myself as.

Again just a reminder.... my original post had nothing to do with dealing with neutral women or persuasion.

It was all about improving you odds of running into DTF girls and closing them

One thing here is that I am not sure I can recognise if she is DTF or she is just accepting my escalation without any intention to fuck eventually. I think the experiences I have mentioned above have made me skeptical towards women that are even attracted to me seemingly.

The other thing is connected to your previous point. I generally feel that most of the girls I like a lot are at the very least neutral, and almost never DTF to me, so I feel I need to really run proper game if I want to get them and not some less attractive girl that would be DTF.

And I guess I sometimes would do even these last ones to get some action, but I think they can feel I would do it without being that interested into them and just because I found some available sex, and they reject me due to that.

 

[Spike]

I generally feel that most of the girls I like a lot are at the very least neutral, and almost never DTF to me, so I feel I need to really run proper game if I want to get them and not some less attractive girl that would be DTF

Because your not dressed or look like their type. If your dressed and look like their type, I promise you, they won’t be neutral towards you