Office crushes & relationships : a bad combination

[JayLR]

Hi guys,

I have some question about the office space while being both in a relationship. There used to be (yes it nearly expired) this huge chemistry, attraction between me and a girl (she crushed on me) while we are both in a relationship (actually I never told her I am), I asked her out some time but never really moved forward. I have been deep diving her from the start (and I still am), I have even met her boyfriend yesterday, (in the same bus, but I was super confident and he didn't impress me at all : I followed chase advice here), she has been giving me escalation windows but I missed them (maybe because I wanted to miss them). I have never added her on skype (stay mysterious : but was this a smart thing to do?) and I have never asked her number. I did ask her to go do something sometime : she said yes she wanted to but then eventually we never did.. We spent some time on the bus together (max 15 minutes each time).

It has now been 2 months and she is giving me very mixed signals (today I feel friend zoned,yesterday she looked at me as she wanted to eat me alive : which made sense because I met her bf yesterday and kinda owned him..).

For me personally it feels like a complex situation :
- I have a gf which I am actually getting sick about..which makes sense otherwise I wouldn't crush back on the respective girl (I never actually found anything on girlschase about this)
- she has a bf (which she probably feels / felt not certain about I guess...)
- we are both in the office
- I have to be carefull about things I do outside of the office space..

Now : there is still some attraction left. And she is wondering about me : she asks me when I am going on holiday etc.. The question is : were do I go from here (say we put all morals aside for a moment...)

Do I add her on skype? Do I continue like this and just deep dive her when I see her untill I see a moment to ask her out on the spot and ask her : lets go now (this is my idea..), or do I just let it linger to dead... If only feelings weren't involved it would be so much easier. We have been playing the chase game for the last weeks (I was chasing her last week and now I just stopped and act normal).

fyi : I have read almost all articles on girlschase : some of them even 10 times (don't chase girls). For me personally it changed my life... I feel much more confident as a man, I know much more what I want, it just changed me... even while being in a relationship.. I went running.. build my condition and my general value just increased a lot. (my current gf also does notice ofc)

Thanks alot
JAYLR

 

[ray_zorse]

Well, firstly, there seems to be a lot of speculation here, she might be into you, she might be just being friendly... she might have gone off her boyfriend, or everything might be fine with her boyfriend and she might be totally into him... just because we think an interaction went well and there's a connection... or we think we "owned" someone as you put it... does not necessarily mean it was the same from her perspective. The determining factor is whether she will let you escalate towards intimacy (will she accept a date, will she allow herself to be isolated e.g. in your home, etc).

Having said all that, I think your plan is basically a sound one, with girls with bf you must seal the deal very suddenly and efficiently, you can ask her for a date such as after-work coffee 2 days hence, but likely she will refuse saying it's not appropriate, or get cold feet in the meantime, which seems to be what has happened previously. So yes, I think "instant date" is probably your best manouevre, but this presents some difficulties, for example if it's a lunch how are you going to get her to a seduction location (e.g. your house) in the time available? You could try your car, or even public sex, but this requires a degree of confidence which you might not have as a beginning seducer, also in daytime there'll be people everywhere, which makes it hard to get comfortable.

Honestly, I see questions like "how do I get XXX girl" quite a lot, and my first thought is that the dude is (a) in scarcity, why worry about XXX girl when there are millions of hotter girls in the supermarket, in clubs, in the street, in the bus [you mentioned the bus a few times, you can grab a number every morning and evening and get lots of dates if you're determined], etc... and (b) being reactive, he's left it to the girl to indicate interest and she has and now he's all over her thinking she's the opportunity of a lifetime. You said GC has helped you a lot, why not try the newbie assignment? You'll be in a much better position to seduce girls at work, girls with bfs, and girls who have a crush on you... if you've gained some solid reference points through dating and cold approach.

I'd also recommend to break up with your gf if the relationship is no longer meeting your needs, a lot of dudes stick with a relationship whose usefulness has ended, through co-dependency, scarcity, neediness, caretaking her emotions, or a combination. It takes a strong, high value man to say "well my needs are XXX and they are not being met, therefore we must YYY". A high value man should be honest and direct, and whilst he practices compassion towards those who are dependent on him, he doesn't let anyone else's needs be placed before his own. Food for thought.

Ray

 

[JayLR]

Ray,

Thanks so much for your answer much appreciated. I see where you are coming from with the speculations and also with the relationship thing...

Could you please elaborate on the "he's left it to the girl to indicate interest", isn't it always the case that the girl should show interest i.e she must be chasing you? I find it very difficult to actually find the boundaries between chasing and making her chase you. Do you refer to missed escalation windows here?

I did add her on skype today after 2 months : to make it easier to arrange something (not to talk all day, I simply don't have time for that at work..), I hope this won't drop the mysteriousity?

Thanks again,

 

[ray_zorse]

By passive I mean a guy who is fearful of rejection i.e. a normal guy -- most guys go through life never making a move on the girls they like, because they're worried it will be embarrassing if she says no, or stops him somehow -- and/or their ego is fragile, so they can't cope with rejection (had some bad rejections early on, which led them to stop making moves on girls they like). So what then happens is, they're watching like a hawk for any girl who shows interest -- if she shows a desire to converse with him, he'll converse and converse but stop there (in case she doesn't want more). He then waits for her to escalate, or basically throw herself at him, anything to "prove" she's not going to reject him if he makes a move. Until he gets these signs, he basically chases and chases her, and puts himself in an orbiter slot. Needless to say, it's a terrible strategy.

You asked about making girls chase -- well being totally aloof and not grabbing her contact details / not utilizing them if you grabbed them... doesn't make her chase. What you have to do instead is reward any signs of chasing very lavishly. So, if she approaches you / initiates a conversation with you in the first place... be very animated and reward this act by providing good conversation, showing an interest in her, etc. If she does something for you, such as offering you a drink... accept with thanks and big smiles and touch etc. If she is telling you about herself (particularly if she's qualifying herself, such as by telling you she has a degree in XXX or that she loves animals or whatnot), then be sure to be very interested, actively listening and relating, giving strong eye contact, telling her you approve (wow, I love animals too... it's so important, it teaches you how to be compassionate, blah blah blah)... or she's asking questions about you... or she sends you text messages late at night to say goodnight... all this is chasing. Reward handsomely. Conversely, if you feel she's withdrawing, she's giving monosyllabic answers, she doesn't contact you, she looks bored, looks into the distance, plays with her phone... the temptation is to work harder to engage her... do not do this... reverse it, withdraw, let her work harder to engage you. A good way to reward chasing or punish withdrawal, very subtly, is with your bored look, and/or slightly turning your body towards or away from her. Let her feel the feedback loop in operation, you can adjust your positioning many times in the course of a conversation.

A related issue is law of least effort -- if you go through life never approaching girls and waiting for them to fall onto your dick, you'll surely be disappointed, but at the same time, if you put a lot of effort into the girls in your life, you'll often get little in return other than being put in an orbiter slot. So you have to expend the least effort possible that gets you what you want. This is attractive, girls can see when you're just doing your own thing, rewarding chasing, otherwise just taking it easy. But you certainly have to expend a little effort and be slightly chasey when you've never met a girl, it's attractive to go up to her, express interest, get her details, etc. Save the advanced stuff for the date or after she's agreed to spend time with you, although if she continues to invest and invest, then you never have to withdraw your chasing.

I think it would've been better to add her on Skype as soon as you got her details, doing it now possibly does look a little chasey, but I suppose it cannot be helped. Given she has a boyfriend, I'd be a bit nervous about Skype contact because it leaves evidence behind, it's best to be a bit more discreet and do things in person if possible.

Ray

 

[JayLR]

Ray you are certainly on spot with your previous post : The "normal guy" is certainly something I can relate to.

What I personally got from this is:

- Do not be fearfull of rejection
- A woman does not necesseraliy have to show a super huge amount of interest to be approached
- Once the first contact is there I should try to move forward fast with the least amount of effort (as described in your paragraph) and be persistent
- Reward chasing behaviour, and "punish" non chasing behaviour (actually I haven't seen super clear chasing behaviour, which you are describing here, from her in a while.... maybe that is already an indication..)
- Do not add girls on skype after you already now them for a while (I rly have no idea why I actually did, I had zero reasons for it and it certainly did not fit in this situation)
- I took a look at the newbie assesment, and it certainly is interesting to do some of this practices in order the get rid of (my) approach anxiety

How I will continue with her : I won't chase her in the office, neither talk to her on skype a lot. I'll try to make a move whenever I see the opportunity in the bus (and hope the attraction on that day isn't completely gone), I will respond to her chasing behaviour accordingly in the meanwhile (altough to be completely fair.. I think it is already a little to late...expiration dates...)

Thanks a lot for this small lesson. Happy to learn,

Regards,

 

[JayLR]

A little update on this girl :

I lowered the amount of effort she had to do to meet me. (this is somewhere in an article on GC) & asked her last week to go to lunch together on that same day. She was hesitating for some seconds but eventually said : "I'll let you know"
I kinda reflected with, well it's only 20 minutes (because I know she can't be gone for long, and the answer was no). Anyways she did indeed let me know by skype : she preferred to stay at work and eat lunch with her coworkers.Since then I've stopped giving her to much attention,I went out on friday to do some (bad) night game etc... She is still giving me smiles and waves in the office, and I'm waving back.. but I haven't talked to her since friday. I seriously need to stop thinking about her. Anyways my last resort would be to talk on the bus with her someday and just ask her plainly there if she wants to go.
(As Chase also mentioned somewhere) the less she commits, the less attention I give her and I don't want to end up in orbiter zone.

I must say : this is actualy one of the first girl I have deep dived, and I feel it really forms as strong connection. I do have a question about this though:
How do you store all this information in your brains and not mix it up? (I've been doing this to the girls I recently met)

edit : What I am currently strugling with is the transition from the deep diving part to actually getting somewhere (to attraction - escalation).

Cheers guys

 

[Fuck This]

Yeah this is a bad situation. In a work situation, if you pursue too hard she could call it sexual harassment. That would lower your value more than anything.

So lets assume you do seduce this woman. When you find another woman you desire, and move on, how awkward is it going to be to see her at work, or work with her? Yeah it sucks...

Really more down side than upside to dating Co-workers.

Your best relationship with this girl is to use her social circle to meet other eligible women.

Flat out tell her that you don't date coworkers but you bet she has some fun friends. Challenge her to introduce you to her friends in a group social outing.

Friend zoning a girl is the ultimate chase frame.

If she moves to another division or company, you have created the base to pursue a relationship.

 

[Skid]

I'm going to agree with ray but take it a step further. I think you just forget about this girl it often just takes to much mental effort to do all this calculation and if she has a boyfriend and you have a girlfriend , which you should break up with btw if you aren't happy with her and you agreed to the traditional monogamous relationship instead of going behind her back , its important that you stay true to your word otherwise you'll build up bad habits which can easily hurt you in the long run. If not with this girl then maybe one later might backfire on you because of your habits. Just go meet more girls. Sounds like you have a good understanding of theory you just need to become more calibrated and that comes with experience.

Skid

 

[JayLR]

Hey guys,
First of all, thanks for all the comments, you guys were 100% right at that moment, I didn't listen and this is what came of it :
(I learned soooo much from this specific case.)

So how it continued : before I went holiday 2 weeks ago, we rly had a romantic moment,I put my shoulder around her but didn't kiss her because I got cockblocked somehow by a colleague at the busstop.
Anyhow, I felt clearly that I dissapointed her that time. I left for holidays and didn't see her for 11 days. But due to the romantic moment I couldn't stop thinking about her at all.
Fast forward untill today, I spoke to her in the morning but noticed she didn't pay any attention to me anymore in the office.
Now half an hour ago, I spoke to her and she was leaving the office with some other guy colleague by car.

Basicly what happened here:

-Girls don't wait forever ==> want to have anything happen? MOVEEEEE FAAAAASTER

-Doubtly I never did anything because I myself am also still in a relationship and I didn't want to hurt my girl (but she never knew this). Ive been with my girl for 9 years...
This is a difficult thing and could actually just be an excuse to myself... I am also questioning my current relationship: did I indulge in this way of living due to this crush? (I found GC due to it)
It all started out when I met this girl, and since then things have gone from bad to worse with my current gf but I learned so much.. Is this just a phase in my life.. I don't know

Do you guys actually all break up before you go to the next girl?
I see Chase mentioning his own gf sometime in articles, but does that mean he has no other girls in the orbit?

-She is a flirt which I misread from the start,who I fell in love with... I taught she was a really shy girl.... but she was so shy because she had a crush on me...
what is important to note here that although I had all material from girlschase at my disposal, I still fell for her because I deep dived her myself, so I actually created the connection myself.
Then she stopped chasing and I started to chase...the rest is history.. now the difficult thing for me was:
If you deep dive her, you are constantly asking questions, and she isn't, so you are constantly the one who is trying to get to know her.
The thing is : how far do you have to go in this, when do you move forward? I moved forward after 2 months and a half (i got more touchy), which is sooooo late (jeezes)

-I indulged in an emotional (if only it was just a physical one) affair in the office which is my first and last time ever, seriously fuck that shit. My work was and still is seriously suffering due to it

-I am seriously wondering what her relationship with her current bf is like, she is constantly looking for attention from other guys.. seriously poor guy...
My question here:
- How can you actually figure out where she stands versus her boyfriend? Do you ask this at a certain moment? I never asked her about this..
Or do you just move forward and see where she puts her boundaries? If I knew earlier, maybe I would have had the guts to actually make something happen...

-Anyways, ignore mode is totally on from now on (prob saying this because I'm pissed at myself (and her..), but I rly am sick of this girl, it's been 3 months ffs..& she isn't even that pretty..)

-Meanwhile, the other 2 woman in my orbit are as good as gone because I focused on this one on it's own, at a certain moment I was really going strong.
But after coming back from holidays with my current gf, I just feel like a weak midget.

Thanks for reading
JAYLR