Online gaming: Which flakes to next? All of them?

[Black]

Because of the number of girls I'm contacting and the speed I'm moving things forward at, I'm also getting a lot of flakes.

Some are obvious cases that need to be nexted forever; like the girl who actually went to the meeting spot but played hide-and-seek (according to the gps app she was there - but no one that was there looked like her online pics) making me go from A to B to C to then leave saying "Sorry! I don't know what to say to you! I'm going back home". I persisted and she was adamant, then tried reel me in after I left. Her last message was "I want to drink alcohol!"

1) But what about the one who cancels a day before with an excuse?

2) The one who first says yes, but then takes hours to reply (something ambiguous) so I end up making other plans?

3) Just then I had a girl who first said yes. . . then was basically saying she was never available.
I framed things HARD to get her to agree to see me tomorrow; she was still throwing a wrench at every step of the process.
I still couldn't get her to comply to some logistic details.
The date is set but I wouldn't be surprised if she flaked and I feel like I couldn't care less now. . .

4) The one who is flaky about communication itself, cutting things off for no reason then coming back days later with whatever. . .


Are any of these salvageable? (So far I'm talking about first dates and first-time flakes; not chasing some girl that flakes everytime. . .)

I feel there's a slippery slope of investment. . . towards chasing.

Where do we draw the line?

 

[Whizzy]

Online dating can be a bit harder than meeting girls in real life funnily enough. It also depends on the site/app you are using. For instance I've had tons of success on OkCupid, mild success on Skout and PoF was just a pain. Which are you using?

 

[Black]

I'm using Momo - which is better than Wechat.

My question is how to process girls that flake or absolutely refuse to meet up (might go offline or try to drag me into an unrelated topic if I persist - thou I did get one solid date out of persisting).

Basically if any of that salvageable. . .

I can keep contacting 20 new girls a day, have 5 reply, 3 lead to anything resembling a conversation. . .
. . .but the app has a social media "board" where they can just keep basking in the attention of local guys (with cartoons characters as profile pic) and some seem to prefer that.
. . .and so: nothing.

This is an app infamous for booty calls and "hooking up" but it seems like I'm the only one not doing it. . . except for a girl that was chasing me - but she was low on the looks scale and it was completely random; I still don't have a process that gives me results yet.

 

[Whizzy]

One great way to get a date that I've found over the years using online dating is to engage in a short convo --> grab number --> ask to hangout after not texting for a couple of days. This shows that you're a busy guy, can hold a small convo, and gives them reasonable deniability about a hookup bc neither of you knew it would happen

 

[Black]

I'm still building reference points but after a few dozen conversations a pattern is beginning to emerge.

Initially, if things go well, we have a 15-30 min conversation, build rapport - eliminate the I'm a local posing as a foreigner thing.
We add each other as "friends" in the app
It ends with me saying, ok I have to go now but let's go for a coffee one of these days to which they reply "sure! " or something equivalent.

Then I get back to them a day or two later and - in more than half the cases - it's impossible to get back to the energy level I had in the first conversation; it's one word replies with a 5 minute delay if they ever reply at all.
It doesn't matter than everyone else is a local guy with Doraemon for profile picture (or some restaurant table with food on it); they are just not interested in me anymore.

The only date I had was number 3 up there - where I made first contact in the morning and pitched the date for the next day, that night.
Then I think I missed an escalation window. . .

So the options I'm considering are:
1) Pitch the date on the high energy of the first conversation
2) do not try to "engage" them again a second time, just throw the invitation out of the blue and hope for the best (has failed so far)

 

[Bboy100]

I've been doing online dating for the past two years, and in my experience, flaking seems to be a regular thing there. Especially if you're getting her offline fast (which you should be!). When she flakes, just treat it like its nbd. Typically, if she actually wants to see you, she'll ask to reschedule. Like, I've had several cases where she said "Oh, sorry turns out I'm busy on x day, but y day would work for me!"
If she says "sorry, turns out I'm busy on [Day you scheduled], just say something along the lines of: "Ok np, what day would work better for you?" and plan accordingly.

If she just says sorry no I can't see you ever for [Insert BS excuse here], I usually don't waste my time on girls like that because:
A. Text is too impersonal to make any type of emotional impact on her (which is necessary to change her mind).
B. It's socially acceptable for her to not reply at all via text, so she feels no social pressure to address her flakiness. Its much easier for her to not reply at all.

The good news is, if you have a good profile setup, its very easy to find another date, so it really doesn't matter.

Also, as far as the other ones go, like the one who's never available, that really depends. How easily do you think you could find another date? Do you think its worth trying to deal with her BS for a low shot at getting her to change her mind? Or would your time be better spent starting over with a new girl. Again, if your profile is good, I would move on. If you can't get many dates at all, and this is just one of the times you got lucky (the way I was till very recently), it might be worth pursuing it a little more.

 

[Black]

Thank you! It's not difficult to get conversations going - the reply rate is low but it's all a matter of spamming a dozen "hey! " to get something going.
Dates, I don't know. . . it must be like 10%. Lower if I take into account cases where it's just not worth asking. . .

I do notice a lot of "moodiness" going on; like girls who were very warmed up to me on the first conversation (investing, complimenting, etc. . .) being cold and dismissive a day or two later.
I don't remember if it was like this in the West or it's an Asian thing.

 

[Bboy100]

Personally, I'd recommend something more than just "Hey". A lot of girls filter that out, regardless of your profile. Like, they won't even click on you. So even if its a girl which who would normally love to meet you, she's just gonna filter you out. You're probably losing a lot of girls because of this.

If you're using Tinder, checkout Colt's Webinar (its free). One of the videos talks about his "lyrics opener". If you're using something else, I can't give you a specific line which I know for sure works, but basically, it depends on
A. How much time you're willing to spend on one specific person's message, and
B. Being humorous/witty without coming off as try hard.

If you're willing to invest the time into writing a personalized message to every girl, then I would basically look at her profile and try to come up with something which fits B. It's not always possible.

If you're not willing to spend more than 10-15 seconds per message, then I suggest just coming up with a default "line" which fits B that you would send her and hope for the best.
At any rate, whatever you say, as long as its not blatantly offensive or just plain creepy, its probably going to have a higher success rate than just "hey".

Also, https://www.girlschase.com/content/how-m ... lenty-fish
Personally, none of the stuff on there seemed to work too well for me beyond the stuff he writes about pictures (in terms of that, definitely do what Chase writes). And to be honest, the stuff he says about writing messages seems intuitively wrong to me. Having said that, Chase has far more experience with online dating than I do, so I'd still try his stuff out, see how it works for you.

Lower if I take into account cases where it's just not worth asking. . .

Not sure what you mean.

Here's my experience though: There have been cases where the girl was literally giving me one sentence responses. Like, I'd ask her a question/say something, and she would give me a three of four word answer. It frustrated the hell out of me. So then I'd say fuckit, I'm not going anywhere with this girl, so I just decided to ask her out, see how it goes. And surprise surprise, she would almost always say yes.

In general, my rule is, unless she quits replying altogether, never assume she's going to say no. If you run out of things to say, then just ask her out anyway. Cause fuckit, its online dating, you've literally got nothing to lose. lol

Again, not sure what you mean by that though, so maybe I'm making the wrong assumption about when its "not worth asking".

I do notice a lot of "moodiness" going on; like girls who were very warmed up to me on the first conversation (investing, complimenting, etc. . .) being cold and dismissive a day or two later.

I've noticed this too. Not sure why it is. Perhaps auto-rejection happens in the online world too?
Either way, at this point, I typically ask girls out on the same day that I contact them. Most my conversations online are not longer than 20 lines. This gets rid of the problem altogether. And when I say "ask out" I mean I plan everything out. It goes like this:
Me: "Hey, I think you're cool, but tbh, I don't think text is a very good way of getting to know someone, always feels more like an interview than a convo...lol. Anyways, let's just meetup sometime?
Her: Ok, sure!
Me: Ok, great. Let's grab coffee sometime. What's your schedule for this week look like?
Her: I'm free on x day.
Me: Works for me! ;-) Any time preferences?
Her: [Sometimes she does, sometimes she doesn't, if she does, go with it if you can. If she doesn't, suggest a time]
Me: Great, I'll see you then! Text me if you need anything (xxx)xxx-xxxx

Normally, she'll text you anyways, just so you have her number (auto-investment on her part. This is very good!).

If you're spending days/weeks/months talking to a girl before asking her out online, you're making it into too much of a big deal. If she replies to you online, she already likes the looks of you (and by extension, on a subconscious level, she assumes you have good fundamentals). Your only job online is to show her that you're not completely devoid of personality, and that you're not some weirdo/creep/pervert. Once you've done that, she's pretty likely to say yes to at least meeting up with you.

 

[Black]

Awesome, thanks.

That article is very neat. I'll look at everything in detail later but I was impressed by the no-eye-contact pic statistics. Definitely worth trying. I have otherwise very good pictures, but even with shades on I'm still kind of looking at the camera. . .
The other thing is half-cropping those girls out, thou I might as well go without. . .

I have a bit of a question mark with the opening. While I do vary it from "Hey! " to an actually longer sentence/question - the times I tried to banter or be funny I got blown off quite badly. Maybe because of the language (maybe if I were a native Chinese speaker I'd come up with something good) and culture barrier (some people here just don't get banter/sarcasm).
. . .or maybe it's just that the girls whose profile causes me to "say something" are already crazy anyway.

Profile of a 33-year old single not-so-hot not-smiling Chinese woman:
"Every women wants money, a car, a man, but in life it's important to. . . blah blah"
Me: Hey! I have no money and no car. . . but I'm a man! How's that?! *grin*
Her: Are you mentally handicapped?
Whatever. . . hahaha

Still, it takes me a few minutes to open a dozen girls (with whatever). . . and suddenly I'm talking with two or three at the same time.
My problem now is turning those into dates.

The advice on asking them out on the same conversation is gold. I find it hard to follow through - but I will . I must.
Otherwise, I waste a lot of time.

The three/four word answer thing is also awesome. It really blows the wind out of my sails.
Yesterday I was re-opening this girl after the local holidays and she was exactly like that - suddenly SHE asked me out.
Then I did the actual date on auto-pilot and her logistics were bad too, so nothing interesting happened. . . but it goes to show. . .

 

[Dave]

Thought I'd pitch in here, having some experience with momo few years ago when it came out. I don't use it anymore because it's tapped, just hookers and girls looking to get their narcissistic fix from an audience of desperate guys commenting on their duck face pictures or their new bag. I met my ex on there and she turned out to be a sociopath who I let ruin my life, fairly representative of the hot girls on momo, so be careful you don't get burned but if you are not interested in long term you should be fine.

Anyway, assuming you've got you're profile and pictures sorted and are adamant about hooking up on that app, try this.

- around 10-11pm jump on, have a look at the local message board and comment on some girls photo, not something generic but a bit of thought into it.
- if she replies send her a private message, build a little rapport and then ask her what she's up to
- when she asks you back tell her you're at home about to watch a movie whatever.
- tell her to come over and watch together. If they don't then I don't really bother trying to persuade too much apart from removing their personal responsibility, because I don't care. About a third of them will just come right away, another third will message me a day or two later to hook up and another third I never talk to again.

I've hooked up a dozen or so times this way, but like I said I'm not really into momo. If they flake doesn't matter because you are at home doing your own thing rather than having to go out and meet. I have some friends that have hooked up hundreds of girls this way, I think because they are more attractive than I am and have lower standards.

Try tantan, it's better, Chinese tinder. More work but in my experience generally more stable women.

 

[Black]

Momo-specific advice. I couldn't be more lucky! hahah

I've only been two months at it but yeah. . . I've seen those girls. . . duck faces, a ton of make up, blatant cleavage, selfies at nightclub VIP tables or at the passenger seat of some expensive car, random pictures of sports cars, jewelry, expensive food and shoes ("on display"). . . Mistresses, escorts, spoiled second-generation-rich, whatever is that they are I avoid them like the plague.
I'm aiming for 7/10 on the looks scale and no "fancy pics" but still. . . it's like you say; some just prefer to bask on the comments of a dozen or so Kermit-the-frog types than following things through with anyone. Lately I've also had a streak of girls who struggle telling me what is it that they do for a living. . .

__________________

So far, other than a friend with benefits, I've got two dates that bombed because of bad logistics - basically, after dinner, the two girls were asking me where I lived. . . couldn't take them there. Now they are not interested anymore. . .

So, I digress from the topic but it might be worth it. . .

I have my own room at a uni dorm, very cheap, but after paying and settling in I found out girls are not allowed in.
The staff doesn't care if there's electricity, plumbing, safety problems or drunk Chinese guys wailing at 2:00am but they'll scream their lungs out if you show up with someone of the opposite sex - and they have someone stay up all night just to make sure. . .

So. . . any tips leading a dinner/coffee date to a hotel?
I can do it from a nightclub because I can make out with a girl there to the point she wants to go all the way - and it's kind of accepted to escalate physically there, in some dark corner or whatever.
Back home, making out in public is not such a big deal and the girls are more direct about their wishes - so I'm really struggling here.

Thanks!

P.S. I'll try Tantan too. . .

 

[Dave]

Coffee to a hotel? Can't help you out there, that's a bit beyond my level. I can't think of any justification I would be able to present for going to a hotel other than sex, unless she's very open and very into you then she will need some sort of pretext at least. Maybe someone with better game can pitch in.

If getting your own place outside out of the dormitory is not an option, and you can't go to hers you might need to add another step before proposing a hotel, it's pretty acceptable to go to KTV any time of the day, at KTV you can get a little intimate then go on to a hotel.

Honestly though, unless you're intent in giving yourself an extra challenge just rent a room nearby the university for a few hundred kuai a month in case you need it.

 

[Bboy100]

I.n terms of banter, yes, sometimes women will blow you off online, no matter how good the execution. The drawback of text is that they can't see your non-verbals. So they'll interpret what you said based on their own worldview and current mood. Not on what you actually meant. Don't worry about those cases.

Also, reread your messages before you send them. Oftentimes, they sound good when you first write them, but then when you actually read it, it sounds dumb/cheesy/tryhard. Sometimes, my attempts at banter get no response or just "what?". But I can count on 1 hand the number of times I've been straight up insulted like what happened to you. Make sure you're actually being funny and not just offensive. Usually, I add smiley faces and Haha 's after anything which if interpreted seriously is offensive. It seems to make a difference.

Unfortunately, I can't really help you with actually making them into dates. I don't yet have a solid process for that. What I do right now is I just ask them questions and relate to their answers. One of my favorite lines is "so, tell me about yourself. What are you passionate about?" It gets them talking about something they care about instead of you playing hit and miss, asking her about stuff which she may or may not care about. After a couple rounds of that, I ask them out.

I do get dates doing that bit keep in mind, my results aren't super consistent. You seem to message a lot more girls than me though (I live in an area with very few girls who do online dating). If you're messaging 10-12 girls at once, even my strategy might work for you. Feel free to try it out.

Also, ditch the shades. I can't find the article, but statistically speaking, guys wearing shades got less responses.