If a girl sees you as having any provider value and as anything but a short term lover, she will likely resist your attempts to take her to bed in the first couple dates. I understand she does this because she wants you to stick around. But why do girls go cold on you and never give you another opportunity to bed them after failing on the first attempt? Why don't they just keep going out with you on more dates and then eventually sleep with you after spending more time?
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Another item for consideration, Shane.
Let's say you take her on dates as a provider. Then fail to deliver on sex (which is usually a turn off and makes her want you less).
Is there anything you offer to her as a provider she cannot get from another man... another man who will both do the provider stuff AND deliver on the sex?
If your aim is to use provider value to give you a cushion against botched escalations, you need to make sure that provider value is sky high and unique. Sky high and unique enough that it's very valuable to her and not easily replaced by the next three suitors she has waiting in line behind you.
If you take her on dates to, say, extremely expensive restaurants, or you take her on wildly fun trips up to the mountains or out to the desert that other dates with other guys don't come close to, she'll be more willing to cut you slack if you mess up on making sex happen once or twice.
If it's just standard dates of the kind she's had with dozens of other guys though, there isn't much there to back you up if you mishandle the close.
Thus: provider value is only a cushion if you genuinely outcompete her other options as a provider. If you don't, it's just another way to buy a ticket to the bedroom with her, with no guarantee of future tickets if you can't make good your first time there.
Chase
Let's say you take her on dates as a provider. Then fail to deliver on sex (which is usually a turn off and makes her want you less).
Is there anything you offer to her as a provider she cannot get from another man... another man who will both do the provider stuff AND deliver on the sex?
If your aim is to use provider value to give you a cushion against botched escalations, you need to make sure that provider value is sky high and unique. Sky high and unique enough that it's very valuable to her and not easily replaced by the next three suitors she has waiting in line behind you.
If you take her on dates to, say, extremely expensive restaurants, or you take her on wildly fun trips up to the mountains or out to the desert that other dates with other guys don't come close to, she'll be more willing to cut you slack if you mess up on making sex happen once or twice.
If it's just standard dates of the kind she's had with dozens of other guys though, there isn't much there to back you up if you mishandle the close.
Thus: provider value is only a cushion if you genuinely outcompete her other options as a provider. If you don't, it's just another way to buy a ticket to the bedroom with her, with no guarantee of future tickets if you can't make good your first time there.
Chase
That makes perfect sense. I've been trying to play the half Lover half provider role. For example she will look me up online after knowing my name and see I'm a lawyer but my actions with her on dates are of a Lover. I'll move fast but she resists sex and then I never hear from her again. The girls I go after are in their early 20s so they haven't dated many guys with professional careers. I'm not trying to use my job to get laid. I don't even talk about my job but they can easily tell I'm a provider based on me having to wear a suit all the time, my apartment and looking me up online.
The more successful I've gotten the harder it is for me to sleep with girls. I' guess I'll just give them a fake name so they can't look me up, ditch the suits and downsize on the apartment. Ha
The more successful I've gotten the harder it is for me to sleep with girls. I' guess I'll just give them a fake name so they can't look me up, ditch the suits and downsize on the apartment. Ha
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shaneawi said:
Right. Have to be careful with qualities that may make you unattainable.
Being a lawyer is high value. That immediately makes her think, "Oh. I'd better not mess up with him," and makes everything a much bigger deal.
When you then move fast and go for quick sex with her, there's a real risk of her feeling insulted - here she was, building you up to be some great potential boyfriend, and you just treated her like any old fling. Attainability goes down, and she enters auto-rejection.
Solutions are you can use date compression (but then you risk bedding a lot of girls who all want to be your girlfriends / having to deal with the expectations and aftermath after), or you can be vague about what you do (preferably, talk about some art or hobby you have instead of your job; if you get pressed on what you do, "I work in a law office. They make me shuffle papers around," and if she really presses, give her a high attainability answer like, "Yes, I am a lawyer, but I haven't been doing it very long yet. So more like a lawyer-in-training, I guess." With last names, tell women you're not on social media, and they won't look you up.
Ideally, even if she digs up that you're a lawyer in conversation, it won't happen until later on, once she's already settled on you being a lover in her mind. The fact that now you have these cool boyfriend qualities is just an extra/intriguing bonus ("Hey... he didn't let me know he has this really high value stuff early on. I wonder what else he has going on that he hasn't let on about"), rather than a defining characteristic. This is, by the way, an almost stereotypical romantic/Byronic hero thing; the guy who starts off as a sexy wanderer, only for her to find out mid-passionate-romance that this guy actually owns a castle somewhere / is a prince / is a billionaire / etc.
The fake name thing, if you're not on social media most girls won't bother to ask for your last name. But if they do, can always just give them your middle name. If you're Shane Brian Smith, you'll tell them you're Shane Brian instead of Shane Smith.
And if they turn into girlfriends later, and they say, "Hey! You said your last name was 'Brian'!" you can just tell 'em, "How was I to know you weren't some crazy stalker chick? Gotta be careful in this day and age. I don't need some jilted lover running into the court room shrieking crazy things while I'm trying to give a deposition."
Chase
Thanks Drexel. I'm going to try being a pure Lover with some approaches this week. You're exactly right. It's funny because before I mentioned my job she was telling me about the different guys shes banged and he fantasies, and how she doesn't want kids or never had a bf. The second I mentioned my job which was really really brief she automatically started talking about me meeting her family in Europe, asking whether I wanted a relationship, asking whether I had a girlfriend, texting after the date to make sure I made it home safe. It's kind of funny when you see that switch happen so quickly because for me I don't care. She could work at McDonalds or be a CPA, but my goal is the same, to sleep with her fast.
I guess it's time to be a Lover again
I guess it's time to be a Lover again
Unfortunately, I wasn't able to turn things around. I was a provider but moved fast towards sex and wasn't able to overcome the last minute resistance. She told me she only wanted to be friends. I see her every now and then. We're cool with each other but only as aquantinces. I didn't have the level of skill to turn things around so I decided to not chase her and went out and met more girls.
I became arrogant and ignored the Lover, provider, friend paradigm. I thought I could play both sides(Lover and provider) in the beginning and it backfired. As stated above it seems ideal to start as a Lover and then to shift to provider if you want the relationship.
Moral of the story- know before you approach a girl who you want her to see you as(Lover, provider or friend) because she will reflect to you what you show her. And don't be afraid to experiment and make mistakes because as long as you keep meeting new girls, in one week, 3 months or a year you will meet someone better and hotter and you'll laugh about that girl you made mistakes with
I became arrogant and ignored the Lover, provider, friend paradigm. I thought I could play both sides(Lover and provider) in the beginning and it backfired. As stated above it seems ideal to start as a Lover and then to shift to provider if you want the relationship.
Moral of the story- know before you approach a girl who you want her to see you as(Lover, provider or friend) because she will reflect to you what you show her. And don't be afraid to experiment and make mistakes because as long as you keep meeting new girls, in one week, 3 months or a year you will meet someone better and hotter and you'll laugh about that girl you made mistakes with
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Hey Shane,
I'm also a man with high value career and I was afraid I would be running into exactly these sorts of issues when I started. I am happy to report that it is possible to avoid the provider trap altogether. What *exactly* I am doing to avoid it, I can only guess, but here are a few pointers I can think of:
* I drop the business attire when I meet the girls. No suit and tie. All casual clothes. Leather jacket, black or brown trousers, boots, and a Lacoste polo.
* I never tell them my full name. In fact, I only give them my second name (not even my first name). And I never give them my Facebook. They can't look me up on internet.
* I remain vague about my career. Fortunately my profession is not as easily recognized as "lawyer" or "MD" or "Pilot".
* I'm always very clear from the beginning that I'm not planning to marry again.
* On date, it's all about building sexual tension.
* My large flat gives me away... But by the time they see it, I'm already inside them ;-)
I guess you only need to do minor tweaks. Find a way to tell your profession... in a not too straightforward manner. But not just "lawyer", that pushes the wrong buttons. For the rest, focus on sexual tension and fast seduction (one or two dates). Once she's aroused, it doesn't matter anymore what's your provider value is, all you got to do is to consume the fire.
If you like her and want to keep her, then you can always introduce a little bit of boyfriend vibe *after* you converted her, but it has to remain mostly sexual.
Cheers,
Seppuku
I'm also a man with high value career and I was afraid I would be running into exactly these sorts of issues when I started. I am happy to report that it is possible to avoid the provider trap altogether. What *exactly* I am doing to avoid it, I can only guess, but here are a few pointers I can think of:
* I drop the business attire when I meet the girls. No suit and tie. All casual clothes. Leather jacket, black or brown trousers, boots, and a Lacoste polo.
* I never tell them my full name. In fact, I only give them my second name (not even my first name). And I never give them my Facebook. They can't look me up on internet.
* I remain vague about my career. Fortunately my profession is not as easily recognized as "lawyer" or "MD" or "Pilot".
* I'm always very clear from the beginning that I'm not planning to marry again.
* On date, it's all about building sexual tension.
* My large flat gives me away... But by the time they see it, I'm already inside them ;-)
I guess you only need to do minor tweaks. Find a way to tell your profession... in a not too straightforward manner. But not just "lawyer", that pushes the wrong buttons. For the rest, focus on sexual tension and fast seduction (one or two dates). Once she's aroused, it doesn't matter anymore what's your provider value is, all you got to do is to consume the fire.
If you like her and want to keep her, then you can always introduce a little bit of boyfriend vibe *after* you converted her, but it has to remain mostly sexual.
Cheers,
Seppuku
Also, though these are valuable advices, don't sell yourself cheap. There are many girls working in law offices, they are used to see lawyers around, you may not exactly impress them by having a law degree... To them, you may not be the classical provider as described... It all depends how you present yourself, what's your overall frame, how you behave... You may be a cool dude living high style life - which girl wouldn't want to be around?
At the same time, don't underestimate being a provider. Again, it all depends on your overall mindset and what you want, but you might be much happier being a provider and not the classical lover that is being described on GC. You can still find lots of classy and quality girls in this field who are looking for provider, who want to have faithful and honest marriage (hint: look for girl who is more conservative, rather republican that openly disagrees with liberals, a girl that was raised to respect law, and who is perhaps religious, who may live in rural area and is not poisoned by fast city life..)...
Girls like that are good deal, perhaps much better than moving from lower quality girl to another girl... You'd be cutting branch on which you are sitting on by trying to game girl like that, you'll be better off just simply wait couple weeks without excessively pushing for sex... So what that you have t wait? There is nothing wrong with waiting couple weeks because the price you can have is a great life with great girl by your side... the minute she finds out you are a fuck boy, the minute she is gone...
Don't move a finger, don't push for sex, let her seduce you, let her invite you to her place, all you have to do is just wait couple weeks and then appear once the window opens.... I know classy girls that actually PAY money to support their future provider while in school or working on his career, you don't hear stories like that here...
Keep your mind open, do what's good for you...
At the same time, don't underestimate being a provider. Again, it all depends on your overall mindset and what you want, but you might be much happier being a provider and not the classical lover that is being described on GC. You can still find lots of classy and quality girls in this field who are looking for provider, who want to have faithful and honest marriage (hint: look for girl who is more conservative, rather republican that openly disagrees with liberals, a girl that was raised to respect law, and who is perhaps religious, who may live in rural area and is not poisoned by fast city life..)...
Girls like that are good deal, perhaps much better than moving from lower quality girl to another girl... You'd be cutting branch on which you are sitting on by trying to game girl like that, you'll be better off just simply wait couple weeks without excessively pushing for sex... So what that you have t wait? There is nothing wrong with waiting couple weeks because the price you can have is a great life with great girl by your side... the minute she finds out you are a fuck boy, the minute she is gone...
Don't move a finger, don't push for sex, let her seduce you, let her invite you to her place, all you have to do is just wait couple weeks and then appear once the window opens.... I know classy girls that actually PAY money to support their future provider while in school or working on his career, you don't hear stories like that here...
Keep your mind open, do what's good for you...
Those are great points. You're right, that's why I like dating girls who are lawyers because they don't drool over my profession. We're able to get each other better because our value is pretty equal.
I'm going to experiment a little with both Lover and provider. I'm still learning game and no where I want to be. I've been a provider a couple times in grad school and had great relationships and I've been the Lover and had fun too. But I have a lot more work to put in.
From my experiences, being a provider with girls who work in professional fields and who are in their mid late 20s works well for me. I start with the provider, then once I've slept with them more of the Lover side comes out.
The reason why I'm discussing trying to be more of a Lover and not mentioning my job is because for the moment I'm in a smaller town and there are not those professional working girls. I pretty much approach girls 19 to 22. So when I mention my job in a quick brief way they latch onto it and it makes it hard to build a genuine bond based on who we are. I mentioned my job in one date and through the week she constantly asked how much money I made, how I would leave her for other girls etc. She never asked what my childhood was like or what my hobbies are. Everything was about my job. And that's not her fault. I should have known that would happen. To me, there's nothing special about my profession. Many lawyers I know are not very intelligent and many don't make a lot of money. But to younger girls it's a big deal.
So I did some approaches today with the younger girls as a Lover and when I meet those professional girls I usually will put forth the provider first.
I'm going to experiment a little with both Lover and provider. I'm still learning game and no where I want to be. I've been a provider a couple times in grad school and had great relationships and I've been the Lover and had fun too. But I have a lot more work to put in.
From my experiences, being a provider with girls who work in professional fields and who are in their mid late 20s works well for me. I start with the provider, then once I've slept with them more of the Lover side comes out.
The reason why I'm discussing trying to be more of a Lover and not mentioning my job is because for the moment I'm in a smaller town and there are not those professional working girls. I pretty much approach girls 19 to 22. So when I mention my job in a quick brief way they latch onto it and it makes it hard to build a genuine bond based on who we are. I mentioned my job in one date and through the week she constantly asked how much money I made, how I would leave her for other girls etc. She never asked what my childhood was like or what my hobbies are. Everything was about my job. And that's not her fault. I should have known that would happen. To me, there's nothing special about my profession. Many lawyers I know are not very intelligent and many don't make a lot of money. But to younger girls it's a big deal.
So I did some approaches today with the younger girls as a Lover and when I meet those professional girls I usually will put forth the provider first.
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Drck said:
DRCk.....everything you say is true......recently realised that there exists some alternative types of game.
what is recomended at gc is the most effective.....but not everyone sleeping with women is using this type of game.
i have seen people consistently sleep with girls using provider game/conspicous consumption game...and even early boyfreind game....i think there exist sme girls where this type of game works better than normal lover game.....
CHASE
if ur reading this...maybe one day you can make a post...about which type of girls we should not attempt the standard boyfreind disqualifying lover route with.
ie....which type of girls would someone be better of selling theselves as a boyfreind...provider....or even freind to get laid
Ree: DRCk.....everything you say is true......recently realised that there exists some alternative types of game.
what is recomended at gc is the most effective....
>>>>> Eh Ree, once there is more hair on your balls you will trully start to appreciate more of my writings. I know you (guys) better than you know yourself... When I write "do just these three things and nothing else", I already know that you will do at least fifteen other things, LOL...
what is recomended at gc is the most effective....
>>>>> Eh Ree, once there is more hair on your balls you will trully start to appreciate more of my writings. I know you (guys) better than you know yourself... When I write "do just these three things and nothing else", I already know that you will do at least fifteen other things, LOL...
Interesting Thread. I don't mind being the provider if I really like her since I'm looking for a girlfriend. However, how can I know she is also attracted to me and interested in more when I wait some dates to escalate? Verbalizing early what I am looking for or want from her?
For instance, I met a girl recently (see at https://boards.girlschase.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15972). We saw each other three times. I started escalating during the third date and after all she only wants to stay friends. So judging by this thread it could have been still too fast (I was telling her all the provider stuff like job, family etc.) OR it was too slow OR there never was any attraction from her side. For me it is not clear to know the distinction.
For instance, I met a girl recently (see at https://boards.girlschase.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15972). We saw each other three times. I started escalating during the third date and after all she only wants to stay friends. So judging by this thread it could have been still too fast (I was telling her all the provider stuff like job, family etc.) OR it was too slow OR there never was any attraction from her side. For me it is not clear to know the distinction.