Long-Term Optimal Unconventional Relationship for Childrearing

[Ambiance]

I read this in one of Chase's responses in another thread (don't know how to quote in the new forum so copy/pasted):
"This seems to be the fairly common progression in these open marriages:

1. Husband shags a bunch, wife stays more or less exclusive
2. Wife after a while manages to find a guy who dicks her well, falls for him, emotions shift to him
3. Husband feels disillusioned at wife falling for someone else, starts chasing to get her back, stops shagging new girls
4. Wife increasingly treats husband as a 'friend' and 'life partner' (words Jada has used to refer to Will, btw)
5. Husband becomes depressed, rarely/never takes new girls... when he does take new girls, they are all lower quality
6. Wife feels happy in her new reality of having a passionate lover who dicks her well, and reliable stand-by husband who will never leave her

I would go so far as to frame this as the "open marriage trajectory"... which seems to start off with the husband feeling like the ultimate pimp, and ending up completely betaized. The husbands never seem to see it coming though."

Now I am a younger guy with no desire to start a family for many years. However, I like to have a plan for everything, and since I know I absolutely want children someday the plan was to eventually settle down with a woman and pop some kids out while still staying active and bedding new women. Monogamy is not in the cards for me. But now its open relationship alternative seems less promising after reading what @Chase wrote.

My question is: what's the best way to have and raise children as an accomplished seducer? Monogamy has too many downsides, open relationships don't take into account female psychology (do NOT want my children to have a stepdad), and I don't know if Western women can handle a one-way exclusive relationship. Anyone have experience here? Thanks

 

[trashKENNUT]

Open communication,

and lots of drama when starting out. You will also need to find who don't believe in monogamy but they do change their mind.
I remember watching a youtube video. Let me dig into it. In the mean time, this is one i found.

 

[DoWhatWorks]

Adding a comment to see the future answers.

As a younger guy myself I'm interested in planning ahead.
Keen to hear @Chase would add to this.

@ZacAdam that video is nuts His frame control must be god level lol

 

[trashKENNUT]

Not just frame control.
Obviously he's a GAWD. lolx.

But amplifying Women's need for Tribe. If you can make all girlfriends/wifes to see the bigger picture,
They will want to be part of it.
Sidenote: Post Modernism Females

If you can make women post a blue background on Instagram to make them think that they won World War III, you won.

And make sure that every women and you defend it together, the idea of togetherness is crucial. Women don't care so much about religion, culture. They care about what they feel that they are part of and did contribute to the tribe.

z@c+

 

[Ambiance]

Found an article by Chase that goes over the subject well: https://www.girlschase.com/content/whats-endgame-playboy
@ZacAdam @DoWhatWorks He mentions how the few guys you’ll see achieve the lifestyle in Zac’s video always isolate themselves and their women from society ie through cults, living on the outskirts, etc.

 

[DarkKnight]

Zac thats actually pretty interesting... Basically we have to amplify the "us against the world" frame? This kinda could be reason why a lot of religions have so much seperatist factions.. in order to form cohesion within a group and taking ownership of it.

 

[Velasco]

Traditional marriage with a traditional girl (no career girl. You want a girl who wants to be (and is comfortable being) a housewife. Have kids with her. Just live with her in the suburbs (help out with the house, kids, go out with them, etc) during the weekends. And have your own place in another city/state for work (maybe because the pay is better) and bang girls there. That's what I see my stepdad does. And what I plan on doing in the future.

 

[trashKENNUT]

Basically we have to amplify the "us against the world" frame? This kinda could be reason why a lot of religions have so much seperatist factions.. in order to form cohesion within a group and taking ownership of it.

Yea. Amplify it like crazy. Which can be unhealthy. But if you do it right, like what this guy does, I think all of them are content.

At least this is what I assume.

If you guys happened to notice, there's family gatherings in the video. All of them. Open communication. I'm sure he is very smart to have a open conversation during family gatherings.

Even if the world turns their backs on them, they are together. That is a powerful thing. You can't beat that.

The religion part, I'm not sure. I need to clarify with you. For Muslims, there's many difference on tribes, especially between the West and East, and also within those groups, there's groups.

I'm sure Christians have this with Protestants and then there's group within it.

Ultimately, everything is about Power. Which I am kind of jaded, really.

z@c+

 

[DoWhatWorks]

Traditional marriage with a traditional girl (no career girl. You want a girl who wants to be (and is comfortable being) a housewife. Have kids with her. Just live with her in the suburbs (help out with the house, kids, go out with them, etc) during the weekends. And have your own place in another city/state for work (maybe because the pay is better) and bang girls there. That's what I see my stepdad does. And what I plan on doing in the future.

I agree with the set up but have more granular questions on how this works in practice.

Do you do this discreetly and simply hope she "turns a blind eye" despite suspicions? How realistic is that especially in the West If she's a traditional monogamous girl she will likely expect monogomy from you too. I don't want to be creeping around as we've all heard of stories of this blowing up and ruining the family unit IF you straying does get out there.

This is part of the reason I focus on daygame and nightgame now instead of online because it leaves no "paper trail".

The alternative is having a girl who's open too but the downsides are what ambiance has already mentioned. I'm leaning on this option though because if the guy stays in good form the issues can be avoided.

I guess there are no real solutions only alternatives lol... It's about picking the least worst option for you. I think leaving a relationship because you don't want to be a beta is better than losing access to your kids because you slept with a woman that is not your wife.

@Ambiance forgot to mention blackdragon 2.0 talks a lot about this stuff and OLTR marriages... Should check it out

 

[Velasco]

I agree with the set up but have more granular questions on how this works in practice.

Do you do this discreetly and simply hope she "turns a blind eye" despite suspicions? How realistic is that especially in the West If she's a traditional monogamous girl she will likely expect monogomy from you too. I don't want to be creeping around as we've all heard of stories of this blowing up and ruining the family unit IF you straying does get out there.

you'd want to separate your player life from your marriage life. Just as you're not the same person at the office as you are at 2AM at the club. So that means going by a different name, phone/number, apartment, in the state in which you reside for work during the weekdays. While your not married, you have plenty of time to field test getting away with a false name, number and seeing what could go wrong. Because there aren't really any consequences for the girl finding out you used a fake name with her (at least when compared to the costs of getting divorced). For example basic things such as blacking out at one girl's place. Leaves you vulnerable to her digging through your pants for your wallet, and seeing your ID (she will be extremely curious if she's very invested into the relationship and you've only given her your first name up until this point). Or leaving your phone unlocked lying around, and she'll see who you've been texting. You'll learn how to cover your bases in preparation for this future arrangement with your wife. So this is how you'll never get caught.

Her turning a blind eye has a lot to do with how attracted she is to you. She will believe your lies as long as they are plausible enough. It really helps to be a crafty liar (not sure if its innate or a skill you can learn). So yes, she will expect you to be monogamous. And as long as she believes you are, then that's good enough for her.

 

[Chase]

@Ambiance,

Yes, that's the article I'd link to.

There's no totally perfect/ideal situation for child-rearing while retaining full sexual freedom at any power level in Western society. Even the most powerful do not have harems.

Even if you could manage to take multiple wives, they'd keep your energies so focused on them you wouldn't manage very many. Philip II of Macedon managed 7 wives and more concubines. One of his wives had a concubine of his and the child he had with her executed, and may have been involved in the assassination of Philip II himself. Or you can just watch the Chinese film Raise the Red Lantern to get an idea of what it's like dealing with multiple wives in a not-totally-locked-down cult-like or deeply supportive cultural system.

Only good multi-wife situation I can think of is ancient oriental emperors. From Persia to China the emperors had huge palaces with thousands of women, guarded by castrated eunuchs. At one point in ancient China, the women's appointments with the emperor was rigidly timed, to the extent that they'd select a woman for the emperor for that night, bring her to the bedroom, lead the emperor there, give him exactly 15 minutes to shag, then pull him out of there on the buzzer so he wasn't exhausting his "vital essences" (i.e., getting nagged to death by the woman). These emperors typically had lots and lots of progeny.

So, in theory, you could do it if you can be the emperor of a country that supports you running your own eugenics program for yourself (basically), and there are enough castrated men around to defend your women (but believe it or not castrated men can still get erections, and even orgasm, though of course they have no sperm, and there was allegedly a tendency for desperate women in various harems around the world to seduce eunuchs into sex... which the eunuchs paid for with their lives if discovered).

Or, more easily, just start a cult where you are the figurehead. But the quality of woman is not likely as good as being emperor.

Assuming you won't be a cult leader or an emperor though, you'll need to resort to the strategies in that article

What's the Endgame for a Playboy?

You won't stay young, wild, and energetic forever. So what happens to the old playboy when age catches up to him? Does he just fade away? Under my article "Male vs. Female Mating Motivations Laid Bare", a reader comments: hard question to ask, but it just seems having children or getting married...

www.girlschase.com

@Velasco is correct that many/most girls will turn a blind eye so long as it's not too in-their-faces and, most especially, that their social reputations are preserved. The man screwing around doesn't really become a major problem usually until her reputation's at risk and/or the husband's just become totally negligent toward her and the family.

Women do not think about relationships the way men do. They're not romantic the way men are romantic. They're generally far more practical. If they're happy with the guy, and they feel secure enough with him, and he's doing a good job with them and the family, and they have a few occasional suspicions he might have some side tail here and there, but they don't really know, and it doesn't seem to impact anything, they won't care, and it actually boosts attraction.

The main problem with infidelity is that most guys are not savvy playboys. Most guys have an affair with one other girl, fall in love, and start neglecting their wives and families. Or they're sloppy about it and shit where they eat and do harm to their girl's social reputation. If you go out with your girl to Location X and she knows people there and people are familiar with seeing you and her together there, and then one day you're at Location X alone and you spot a really pretty girl and you strike up a chat with her and one thing leads to another and she's cleaning your pipes later, and then people from Location X see you with her a few more times, and then they see you with your woman as well, that's going to get back to her. You really can't be sloppy with this.

Sometimes you'll come across tales of men who maintained separate families, typically in different cities an hour or two apart. "It's for business" is the tried and true excuse for a man wanting to get away from the wife/kids, and usually in these multi-family scenarios the man was telling each family he had to be in the other town every other week for business. One week in Town 1 with Family 1 (Family 2 thinks he's there for business), and the next week in Town 2 with Family 2 (Family 1 thinks he's there for business). Only works if you're location independent, of course. Or I guess you could have an office halfway in between, and just pick cities on opposite sides from it.

You start to see how much extra work it is maintaining all this though.

This is why most guys settle into monogamy. It is just way, way easier than much more demanding alternatives out there.

But of course, if you're more driven than most, you still do have your other options.

(open marriage is another way to go, yeah. I have observed the guys who are happiest with it on the longer term -- like 15+ years -- are the guys who genuinely enjoy knowing their wives are getting fucked by someone else, or watching her get fucked... a lot of the most successful open marriages I see involve a lot of threesomes, usually mostly MMF. Seems like those setups can go the distance. The other ones, where the man just doesn't / tries not to think about his woman getting plowed, while he's out there getting laid with other women, don't seem to work as well, due to the deterioration process @Ambiance highlighted in the OP. In any event, if you're doing open marriage, the one thing I have consistently heard from practitioners is "you need to make sure the kids don't know about it" -- I would guess that's not a pleasant conversation to have with your kids, and it's probably not good for the kids' reps in school if it gets out)

Chase

 

[trashKENNUT]

I thought i add this too. HAHAHA! Got to throw in 'all the notes' since i been following this guy on his instagram.
His young daughter loves him but super annoying.

Travers 'Candyman' Beynon On His 'Strict Rules' When It Comes To Girlfriends

Candyman opened up to LADbible about his 'strict rules', Sunday night takeaways and how he sleeps with his wife and girlfriends every night

www.ladbible.com

z@c+

 

[Ambiance]

Traditional marriage with a traditional girl (no career girl. You want a girl who wants to be (and is comfortable being) a housewife. Have kids with her. Just live with her in the suburbs (help out with the house, kids, go out with them, etc) during the weekends. And have your own place in another city/state for work (maybe because the pay is better) and bang girls there. That's what I see my stepdad does. And what I plan on doing in the future.

Don Draper approves

 

[Ambiance]

I agree with the set up but have more granular questions on how this works in practice.

Do you do this discreetly and simply hope she "turns a blind eye" despite suspicions? How realistic is that especially in the West If she's a traditional monogamous girl she will likely expect monogomy from you too. I don't want to be creeping around as we've all heard of stories of this blowing up and ruining the family unit IF you straying does get out there.

This is part of the reason I focus on daygame and nightgame now instead of online because it leaves no "paper trail".

The alternative is having a girl who's open too but the downsides are what ambiance has already mentioned. I'm leaning on this option though because if the guy stays in good form the issues can be avoided.

I guess there are no real solutions only alternatives lol... It's about picking the least worst option for you. I think leaving a relationship because you don't want to be a beta is better than losing access to your kids because you slept with a woman that is not your wife.

@Ambiance forgot to mention blackdragon 2.0 talks a lot about this stuff and OLTR marriages... Should check it out

I love Blackdragon! Thought about mentioning his thoughts in my first post.

There are plenty of women who would turn a blind eye, especially if they were with a man who was strong and on the up and up. Blackdragon's favorite example is Maria Shriver. She knew Arnold was playing around, and from reading between the lines of Arnold's autobiography I'd wager it was something they had actually communicated about at some point in their relationship (Arnold was still playing around during their first year of dating, and they dated for I think 7 years before marriage). Maria only split with Arnold when the scandal happened, because it is better to play dumb than to appear weak (sociopaths like Hillary exempted haha!).

Totally agree leaving a relationship once you have kids is a valid option. Ideally in my book, it would be an amicable parting, she'd understand being a husband just isn't in your blood, and you'd still bang her from time to time while being very involved together as parents. Know several relationships like that which seem fairly stable.

 

[Ambiance]

@Ambiance,

Yes, that's the article I'd link to.

There's no totally perfect/ideal situation for child-rearing while retaining full sexual freedom at any power level in Western society. Even the most powerful do not have harems.

Even if you could manage to take multiple wives, they'd keep your energies so focused on them you wouldn't manage very many. Philip II of Macedon managed 7 wives and more concubines. One of his wives had a concubine of his and the child he had with her executed, and may have been involved in the assassination of Philip II himself. Or you can just watch the Chinese film Raise the Red Lantern to get an idea of what it's like dealing with multiple wives in a not-totally-locked-down cult-like or deeply supportive cultural system.

Only good multi-wife situation I can think of is ancient oriental emperors. From Persia to China the emperors had huge palaces with thousands of women, guarded by castrated eunuchs. At one point in ancient China, the women's appointments with the emperor was rigidly timed, to the extent that they'd select a woman for the emperor for that night, bring her to the bedroom, lead the emperor there, give him exactly 15 minutes to shag, then pull him out of there on the buzzer so he wasn't exhausting his "vital essences" (i.e., getting nagged to death by the woman). These emperors typically had lots and lots of progeny.

So, in theory, you could do it if you can be the emperor of a country that supports you running your own eugenics program for yourself (basically), and there are enough castrated men around to defend your women (but believe it or not castrated men can still get erections, and even orgasm, though of course they have no sperm, and there was allegedly a tendency for desperate women in various harems around the world to seduce eunuchs into sex... which the eunuchs paid for with their lives if discovered).

Or, more easily, just start a cult where you are the figurehead. But the quality of woman is not likely as good as being emperor.

Assuming you won't be a cult leader or an emperor though, you'll need to resort to the strategies in that article

What's the Endgame for a Playboy?

You won't stay young, wild, and energetic forever. So what happens to the old playboy when age catches up to him? Does he just fade away? Under my article "Male vs. Female Mating Motivations Laid Bare", a reader comments: hard question to ask, but it just seems having children or getting married...

www.girlschase.com

@Velasco is correct that many/most girls will turn a blind eye so long as it's not too in-their-faces and, most especially, that their social reputations are preserved. The man screwing around doesn't really become a major problem usually until her reputation's at risk and/or the husband's just become totally negligent toward her and the family.

Women do not think about relationships the way men do. They're not romantic the way men are romantic. They're generally far more practical. If they're happy with the guy, and they feel secure enough with him, and he's doing a good job with them and the family, and they have a few occasional suspicions he might have some side tail here and there, but they don't really know, and it doesn't seem to impact anything, they won't care, and it actually boosts attraction.

The main problem with infidelity is that most guys are not savvy playboys. Most guys have an affair with one other girl, fall in love, and start neglecting their wives and families. Or they're sloppy about it and shit where they eat and do harm to their girl's social reputation. If you go out with your girl to Location X and she knows people there and people are familiar with seeing you and her together there, and then one day you're at Location X alone and you spot a really pretty girl and you strike up a chat with her and one thing leads to another and she's cleaning your pipes later, and then people from Location X see you with her a few more times, and then they see you with your woman as well, that's going to get back to her. You really can't be sloppy with this.

Sometimes you'll come across tales of men who maintained separate families, typically in different cities an hour or two apart. "It's for business" is the tried and true excuse for a man wanting to get away from the wife/kids, and usually in these multi-family scenarios the man was telling each family he had to be in the other town every other week for business. One week in Town 1 with Family 1 (Family 2 thinks he's there for business), and the next week in Town 2 with Family 2 (Family 1 thinks he's there for business). Only works if you're location independent, of course. Or I guess you could have an office halfway in between, and just pick cities on opposite sides from it.

You start to see how much extra work it is maintaining all this though.

This is why most guys settle into monogamy. It is just way, way easier than much more demanding alternatives out there.

But of course, if you're more driven than most, you still do have your other options.

(open marriage is another way to go, yeah. I have observed the guys who are happiest with it on the longer term -- like 15+ years -- are the guys who genuinely enjoy knowing their wives are getting fucked by someone else, or watching her get fucked... a lot of the most successful open marriages I see involve a lot of threesomes, usually mostly MMF. Seems like those setups can go the distance. The other ones, where the man just doesn't / tries not to think about his woman getting plowed, while he's out there getting laid with other women, don't seem to work as well, due to the deterioration process @Ambiance highlighted in the OP. In any event, if you're doing open marriage, the one thing I have consistently heard from practitioners is "you need to make sure the kids don't know about it" -- I would guess that's not a pleasant conversation to have with your kids, and it's probably not good for the kids' reps in school if it gets out)

Chase

Thanks for the heads up about eunuchs still being able to perform. Will keep in mind for when I'm running my future post-apocalyptic society and just execute all the other men (hopefully robotics will have advanced enough for me to guard my women and land with drones instead)

Great point about maintaining proper attention and care for Girl/Family #1. I'm thinking one would want to have a main family, and then perhaps side girls with a kid in far away cities that he could visit a few times a year but wouldn't be nearly as invested in. Kinda like @Grand Pooba 's Queen Theory but with entire families. This could be very dangerous if such a man were to become a prominent figure in the public eye through politics or business or such. In which case he would probably have to keep it to solely mistresses and not kids.

 

[Chase]

Thanks for the heads up about eunuchs still being able to perform. Will keep in mind for when I'm running my future post-apocalyptic society and just execute all the other men (hopefully robotics will have advanced enough for me to guard my women and land with drones instead)

Whew, let me know where that's going to be and I'll make sure to steer clear

Great point about maintaining proper attention and care for Girl/Family #1. I'm thinking one would want to have a main family, and then perhaps side girls with a kid in far away cities that he could visit a few times a year but wouldn't be nearly as invested in. Kinda like @Grand Pooba 's Queen Theory but with entire families. This could be very dangerous if such a man were to become a prominent figure in the public eye through politics or business or such. In which case he would probably have to keep it to solely mistresses and not kids.

The counterpoint to this is we're still not at the point where this is always definitely something the MSM or citizen journalists can or will easily dig up.

Arnold Schwarzenegger's adult child wasn't known about until the very end of his political career.

Clint Eastwood has been in the media spotlight pretty much forever, but we still don't know how many children he's fathered. His personal life has its own separate page on Wikipedia (I've never seen someone have a separate page on Wikipedia for his personal life before):

Personal life of Clint Eastwood - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Eight children of his are known, with more possibly unknown:

According to Eastwood's unauthorized biographer Patrick McGilligan, "The people who know Clint best suspect there are other families in his closet."​

​

...​

​

Publicly, Eastwood has been silent on claims of other offspring. "We don't know how many children Clint has had with how many women," McGilligan stated on-camera in the 2012 French documentary L'album secret de Clint Eastwood. "I heard of other possibilities ... One was when he was still in high school." Playboy notes that "the number is unconfirmed and Eastwood is reticent about the issue."​

This is a very publicly visible, prominent man, who may still (almost seems like he probably does) have families unknown to the public.

Most doxxing that occurs occurs because people put their info everywhere for whoever wants it to take.

If you are not out there plastering your life all over social media, if people cannot easily find your stuff online, it is not usually easy for them to find it out, even in this age.

Chase

 

[POB]

OLTRs, there's no magic pill...you have to be able to let your girl be free. Jealousy will never make you happy long-term.

Disadvantages:
- other guys will want to blab about it one way or the other. So she must be someone you trust 100%, because she'll be the one picking those dudes.
And that's it.

You have to remember men are becoming worse every single day. If she's with you, she probably had dozens, if not hundreds, of failed experiments. Now she wants you! She will only fall for another guy if you neglect her in a serious way (or if she's too young).

Other than that, keep it a secret and be very discreet. Set the rules of the relationship with her...obey them, of course, but also enforce them when necessary. And most important, have 100% the ability to walk away if you are not happy.

Advantages:
- threesomes FFM if she is bi (or bi-curious at least);
- you can fuck whoever you want at any time, and still have someone you love at home;
- intimacy and trust...when you say to a woman (one you really really care about) that you don't give a damn if she fucks other dudes - and that both should remain sexually free - after the initial shock, her attraction and trust for you skyrocket! Field tested numerous times! It's like you remove a burden from both their lack of trust in men and her own sexual freedom - and they start to love and care for you even more!
- most of the times, she'll only be with you (maybe have a distant FB she'll see very sporadically). Women usually don't need constant variety like we do.
- us vs them mentality...it becomes a secret only you and her know about, so she'll start to be 100% by your side on sexual topics - even when talking about other attractive women you'd like to fuck. The contrast with other couples failing bad will also push her to be a believer.

About the OP: you should only have kids with a woman you have established a long relationship (+2 years) on the terms YOU want - or at least terms that are very favorable to you. Although once the kids arrive, your life as a seducer will take a heavy blow (no way around it).

But yes, IMO it's possible to stay open even with kids. What you do is establish the base for what you want, talk with you wife, and reinforce that you are who you are, and you'll never change; but also say that you will continue to be a great husband, and will never stop taking care of her and protecting the family. Then you let her decide.

 

[trashKENNUT]

There's 3 areas to go i guess. (not in accordance of importance)

1)Number 1 Female and Known Sidechicks
(https://www.ladbible.com/entertainm...les-when-it-comes-to-his-girlfriends-20180826)

2)Monthly 'Business' Trips

3)Chase's article
(The Clint Eastwood Guy, https://www.girlschase.com/content/whats-endgame-playboy)

*Zac's secret MANIACAL thoughts. Get SMMA company to at least 20k a month. Go to every country and go raw rampage on EVERY SINGLE HUMAN WITH A FEMALE GENITALIA. Cross fingers. Let's count the numbers in 20 years XD*


z@c+

 

[Tank]

In general, with the way the legal system is, i.e., once a woman leaves she gets tons of your cash in child support (even if you don't stupidly get married) and can spend it however she likes and largely has control of the custody of the kids, the standard way of having kids in (most) of the western world is just prone to disaster.

Trying to maintain a good sex life (i.e., shagging other women) in the process will just add another potential spark to that blaze.

The only reasonable way I can see having kids these days, besides having an international double life is,
1) Be very rich
2) Find poor girl with good mother qualities, be with her for some time (although a romantic relationship isn't even necessary, you just have to get to know her well to recognize her good mother qualities and overall moral integrity and so on)
3) Make her an offer she can't refuse: she officially gets a big cash prize for a surrogacy contract, i.e., you getting full legal custody of the kid, and subsequently you pay her a very good salary, but entirely on your terms, to work full time on raising the kid (+ even supporting her grandparents to help out) until the kid becomes an adult
4) Do whatever the fuck you want with your dating and sex life.

There's nothing that can really fuck up this setup

 

[Velasco]

Went through this post yesterday and noticed there was some good discussion on this topic, including one of them backing up my long term arrangement:

"For me, the end game looks a lot like TTM set up: a main girl in a main house (possibly with kids) that I see on the weekend, and side girls in my pied a terre, where I would live during the week.

All pluses, no minuses.

I wouldn't be able to handle full time live-in as I would be going crazy very rapidly. Plus the logistics for banging other girls would be nightmarish (I lived with my parents for a year about 3 years ago, had about 1/3 of the lays I normally do and nearly no consistent FB during that time)".

Players end game - NextASF

All topics directly related to seduction, sex, and female psychology.

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