Playing the slow game? Make her a girlfriend.

[Estate]

Hey guys... long time no chat

I'll keep this question short.

What do you look for in a girl... and also... how do you change your game if you are looking to date someone longterms vs. being the lover?

Simple question... I think a lot of the methods here are all about becoming the lover and not putting yourself in the boyfriend category. I think I've maybe absorbed this almost too well. While I can get the short-term rewards of getting with some really great girls... if I look to make more of it... I think I've already set myself up to rule myself out. Girls can be SUPER into me, but if I try to turn it into anything more than just hooking up/sex, it tends to make things dry up.

Should I be playing a much slower game? I went from a guy who used to lose girls from moving SUPER slow to the guy who beds girls by moving super fast but maybe ruling myself out as boyfriend material. I'm unsure. Nowadays, I tend to get wary of playing it TOO slow incase she goes into auto-rejection because I'm not pushing the boundaries.

 

[Thedoctor]

Estate,

Most of my relationships have actually started out of the lover category. This was something I used to do subconsciously and not realize it, but I just slowly started to show my value over the course of our "fling." Things like talking about your goals with her and gradually transitioning the conversations more towards things you'd talk to your gf about like work, family etc. Basically anything you'd not talk about at first for fear of over providing value.

The key here is to do it gradually so she slowly starts to see you as someone she could have a future with.

Try it out next time,
-John

 

[Amadeaus]

I wouldn't recommend moving slow. I had a relationship failure that I think was at least partially due to auto-rejection from moving too slow. Tons of making out and we didnt really start fondling each other until about week 5.

I have had a good handful of relationships though. All of them, we hooked up on the 2nd or 3rd date. A couple of the points Chase makes a lot with casual relationships is to only see them once or twice a week and you want them to initiate conversation most of the time. This holds true when I look at the relationships I've been in. On most of the first dates, I spent the night. After hooking up, we spent the night almost every night.

After a few days, you'll have a toothbrush over there and they will be sitting on your couch with sweatpants and no makeup.

 

[PinotNoir]

Hey Estate, it sounds like you have dialed to zero, with zero equaling moving fast, being sexual, reading women, etc. So in this regard, it sounds like you have mastered being Casanova. As I haven't even reached near that, I can't relate on that level, but maybe I can help since I have a history of getting boyfriended too soon and have been improving that since finding GC.

So, maybe all you need to do now is dial it up to one or two. For example, you take a girl on a first date to a normal restaurant. A super provider would take her to a fancy restaurant, while a lover would not take her to a restaurant at all. Understand? You hit the middle ground. Even though this advice is bad for beginners, maybe it will work with you, since you have improved your game so much. It's just about dialing back up a bit and finding out what works, almost like you want to do the opposite of what Chase says but in really small increments.

Since I mentioned him, let's use Casanova as an example. Women find him irresistible; he is a sex object to them. He's too far in one extreme. Instead, he dials it up just a bit to obtain a girlfriend. Notice that these are things opposite of what Chase suggests, but not dialed all the way up, and this will only work if you're too extreme in the regard of being successful with women but not having a girlfriend.

Date 1:
He takes her to a reasonable restaurant/museum/play, not too cheap and not too expensive. He pays. Being an advanced guy, he runs his typical routine of deep-diving, chase-framing, and sexual-framing perfectly. But, we have no mention of being flaky ("I might not be in town long") or hints of being too sexual ("I dated 20 girls last month"). It's just dialed back a bit. Maybe you even deep-dive on more boyfriend-related stuff, such as "Do you want kids? How many?" and "How do you feel about raising kids?" and "All of my friends are getting married, it's just so crazy. Do you experience that?"

Date 2/3+:
If you have successfully found the middle ground, you should be able to have sex with her with LMR. If you don't get LMR, then it may actually be a bad sign in this scenario. If she gives you too much LMR, then you dialed it up too much. After sex, cuddle with her; talk with her; watch a movie; etc. Actually, this may be a much better time to bring up the boyfriend-related questions above, since you've already had sex.

Again, it's about finding the sweet spot. If you're getting pegged as boyfriend/provider too early (and no sex), then you're dialing it up too high. If she's not giving you "loving eyes" and interested in talking about boyfriend-related things, but only shallow topics, then you're probably dialing it too low.

Hopefully, Chase will give you a good response, as it seems like he's been in almost every scenario from flings to relationships.

Lastly, it may be the type of women that you're approaching and attracting. Do you do day game? Do you ever talk with shy or reserved girls? Do you talk with girls that do NOT like to party when you ask them? You can even stereotype on clothes and makeup if you need to.

I am of course baffled that this could be the case. But if it is, then I think maybe you are too extreme and just have to dial up, or maybe you need to work on creating deep meaningful conversations, or maybe it is the type of women. It's hard to know 100% without all of the information about yourself and your interactions with women.

 

[PinotNoir]

Estate, just curious, did you ever find a "solution" to your problem here?

 

[Marty]

Estate:

Girls can be SUPER into me, but if I try to turn it into anything more than just hooking up/sex, it tends to make things dry up.

I think MonsieurLabrie discussed this in one of the stickied posts: Understanding Hot Girls, The Stalker Factor.

You see, sometimes guys will "game" hot girls and it will fall completely flat. The reason for that is because these women do not forgive any mistake. If they perceive at any time that you want to be their boyfriend or make them your wifey, it's over for you.

Not sure if this helps...?

-Marty