Predicting The Fall of Societies and Locating Booming Ones (basically signs to look for, for moving countries)

Regal Tiger

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I'll just be straight up.... I'm kind of ignorant about other countries or even signs to look for when it comes to looking for good signs for good societies. What I'm wanting is what kind of signs should I look for in a country to see whether or not men and women are batshit insane (like in the US). I've spent a lotta time thinking/talking/ranting about things that indicate a society is failing, but what about ones where it'd be great to go for pickup and romantic happiness?

I've not thought about it and I don't really have a clue on what to even look for.


I know there are some great posts from Chase scattered around the forums, but I've already spent like 40 minutes looking for them and I can't find them. Most notably one about feminism basically signaling the end of a society comes to mind.

So yeah, I know that you don't want to say "go to this country it's great" because then everybody will flood over to it and then it'll suck in no time, so that's not my question. My question is, what should I be looking for?

I know about Flag Theory at a very basic level, but I need to do a lot more research on the topic and this is probably the most important thing for me. Please help lol
 

DaVinciMatrixStyle

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I think in my personal opinion, if there's any 'booming cities' it won't be booming any longer. It'll be over-saturated via word of mouth, sooner than later especially in the age of digital era.

For me what works is being prepared to move to a new location at a moment's notice. This means having enough financial resources + connections to be able to move to the next major city or location for the next few months.

Other than that, in general, I love any east european countries including Croatia, Montenegro, Turkey, etc.
 

MuST0BtA1NSkR1Lla

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I got property recently for Lichtenstein just because I feel it is so lowkey and do nothing in history that it might be a great place.

Anywhere that is an island also is quite nice.

Pickup though more revolves around chilling out then it does anything else about location. Genetic odds wise there is tens everywhere in every place at different ratios but they exist.
 

Will_V

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I don't think that kind of country exists right now, and if it does, it won't last long.

From what I can see, Western countries in general are going far left, and the only other choices are conservative, right-leaning countries. But these conservative countries are often either heading further right, or they are heading left fast and haven't caught up yet with the Western trend (and they will shortly, with the aid of social media and the internet).

In conservative countries, the women are better behaved, but the society itself is not necessarily a great place. You tend to get rigid (often quite disfunctional) hierarchies, more strict social conventions along with a clearer boundary of insiders/outsides that can take time to penetrate, and a general slow pace and lack of entrepreneurial spirit.

Like Chase wrote about in his mouse utopia article, pickup is a rather opportunistic, adaptive behavior, and runs contrary to social norms in all kinds of regulated societies (in this case, the West is regulating sexuality through the pressure of feminism and guilt, while conservative countries regulate it through heavy social policing). In that sense, I think the opportunities are in those countries especially that are breaking free of conservatism (that's why many pickup artists go on vacation in eastern europe) as well as (possibly) countries that are liberal but heading toward conservatism (the biggest example being South America). But in both cases, it's an unstable situation that probably won't last all that long, depending on the push and pull of different social forces.
 

Don Giovanni

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Interesting thread, I hope it gets attention it deserves.

Although I'm not in a financial position yet to do a lot of travelling, I've been thinking about this topic for a while now. Every country or culture has it's upsides and downsides. I don't really care about what ideology people identify with, because my world view today is so far off the grid I doubt I'll find a place that remotely aligns with me. Fuck politics as well. I doesn't matter that much anyway if you can hold your frame.

Laws are important though. You don't want to pay a fine because you make out in public (Dubai) or go to jail because you were smoking a joint (Philippines). You don't want to go to jail because you broke your quarantine (France, Australia) and you don't want to lose your job because you called someone by wrong pronoun (USA I assume?). This is what I like about Eastern Europe, the countries here are just the right amount of corrupt, you can cross a red light on traffic walk in front of a cop and they don't care. You can find your way around certain laws and that's nice.

Girls are important of course. North Asia, Eastern Europe, Mediterranean, Europe in general is good.

You don't want to be in a country that's in a possibility of being occupied, which unfortunately Eastern Europe currently is. No brainer, you don't want to live in a war.

Then other parts of living there. How big is the population? I prefer bigger. How's the night life scene, is it good for day game (Iceland is not for example, but is great for other things), how is the business or culture scene that you're into there thriving (California if you're a programmer, Belgium if you're a contemporary dancer, etc.), is the public transportation good, how expensive it is living there or other factors that are important to you.

It's subjective and it depends on what you're looking for. My plan is to eventually get enough money and just travel around, try living in different areas and see where I want to live - because you don't know you'll like it for sure until you actually live there.

Looking forward to other inputs.
 

trashKENNUT

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To dear friends of Girlschase,

I actually wanted to avoid responding directly because I try to respect a particular request from Chase, directly. But this is needed. I prefer to not say it but it's getting obvious.

To Americans, Europeans, China Chinese, Indians, who wants to migrate and think that the grass is greener on the other side. I have been right and I have always been right on a lot of things.

There's rules for Westerners (lovers).
There's rules for Asians (low value global males).

And vice versa.

The Westerners/Europeans who live in Asia, all tend to marry the Filipinos/not so "physically blessed" Asian females. Chase has written articles on this. (I can't remember the exact article, on settling)

I sincerely mean this.

No matter which country you go, please read the forums (reddit, whatever) and also live there for 6 months. You are marrying her nation if you reside in her country. There's many of this videos and I was shocked.



z@c+
 

climbingup

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Why is no one talking about Africa???

Madagascar and The Gambia are currently the hottest spots to be. No westernisation and no one really goes there.

In fact I suspect the law of mention of these two countries is because people don't want to expose them. These places are absolute gold mines
 

ulrich

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I’m not sure if it would make more sense to search for your own area within your own country (or macro region) instead of emigrating.

If you ever change countries, you will be a foreigner forever and that’s not for every one.

Yeah, may be your country (USA in this case) is in decadence but if the point is to live a more rewarding life and raising a family away from the craziness, I’m pretty sure you can do that in a smallish city like Nashville or Denver.

Not saying you shouldn’t travel or move… just saying that your home country going slowly in a bad direction should not be the main reason to move.
IMO, you should be looking for great things not running away from decentish ones.

Would you be happier as a foreigner in a country you may never be full part of? Or as a king of your own small hill in the right place within USA?
That’s a good question to make, I think.
Ive seen people using travel as an escape too many times.
 

Terms

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What I'm wanting is what kind of signs should I look for in a country to see whether or not men and women are batshit insane (like in the US).

I have some thoughts on this part of your topic. I honestly think a lot of it comes down to how much social media plays a role in the culture, and how much you as an individual invests your time and attention into social media, especially political debate, which massively colors a person's perception of life.

I don't think people are any more batshit insane in the US or anywhere else than they've ever been, I think social media is an amplifier of extreme opinions and superlative language with little nuance, which infects any culture it overtakes.

The further back you go the more batshit insanity there was though. Can you imagine the Satanic Panic playing out with social media amplifying the whole thing? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_panic)

Or 9-11, Bill Clinton's BJ and cigar fuck, Vietnam, the civil rights movement, women's right to vote, the great depression, the world wars, the end of slavery, etc etc etc playing out on Twitter and Reddit and Youtube and podcasts with every single person out there speaking their piece in an attention-seeking shock-value manner trying to get more clicks than the next guy? Times are quite tame in comparison, issues much smaller.

The new thing in the picture making everyone miserable is social media, the thing to get away from is social media and people who spend much time with social media. You can find this within the US if you look for the right people (screen screen screen). But moving somewhere that isn't yet infected is definitely a worthwhile option, though I do think its a matter of time before the entire world is hooked and its going to be on each individual to carve out their own life outside of it.
 

Regal Tiger

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I think in my personal opinion, if there's any 'booming cities' it won't be booming any longer. It'll be over-saturated via word of mouth, sooner than later especially in the age of digital era.
I don't necessarily mean booming cities, but like, booming countries? I can understand looking for countries who are financially on the up and up, but I don't care about that as much

I mean pickup wise on the up and up, or just not functionally crazy lol
For me what works is being prepared to move to a new location at a moment's notice. This means having enough financial resources + connections to be able to move to the next major city or location for the next few months.

Other than that, in general, I love any east european countries including Croatia, Montenegro, Turkey, etc.
Fair enough, but let me ask you this: why do you love those countries? What sticks out to you, what are you looking for in a country to fall in love with?
 

Regal Tiger

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I’m not sure if it would make more sense to search for your own area within your own country (or macro region) instead of emigrating.
Fuck everything about the USA. This country fills me with an absolute hatred and if I don't escape within the next 10 years then I don't see much point in living beyond that

I know it's hard to understand but the amount of rage I feel for this dumbass continent is extremely high. I'm not living here for the rest of my life
If you ever change countries, you will be a foreigner forever and that’s not for every one.
True
Yeah, may be your country (USA in this case) is in decadence but if the point is to live a more rewarding life and raising a family away from the craziness, I’m pretty sure you can do that in a smallish city like Nashville or Denver.

Not saying you shouldn’t travel or move… just saying that your home country going slowly in a bad direction should not be the main reason to move.
It's not, but it certainly doesn't help

But I do appreciate you aiming to be a voice of reason. Having said that, there's no reasoning to be had on this subject. It's get out or death for me, 110% done with this country and it's one of the few things that sets me off
IMO, you should be looking for great things not running away from decentish ones.
That's what I'm trying to figure out in regards to flag theory and why I created this thread. I'd rather run towards something but if I can't then I'll damn sure run away lol
Would you be happier as a foreigner in a country you may never be full part of? Or as a king of your own small hill in the right place within USA?
That’s a good question to make, I think.
Ive seen people using travel as an escape too many times.
And I totally understand where you're coming from, and again, I know how I come off on this topic and it's not good. But there's absolutely no compromise to be had here. I'll never be happy in the United States. I'll always feel like shit here, hate it so much
 

ulrich

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Fuck everything about the USA. This country fills me with an absolute hatred and if I don't escape within the next 10 years then I don't see much point in living beyond that

I know it's hard to understand but the amount of rage I feel for this dumbass continent is extremely high. I'm not living here for the rest of my life

True

It's not, but it certainly doesn't help

But I do appreciate you aiming to be a voice of reason. Having said that, there's no reasoning to be had on this subject. It's get out or death for me, 110% done with this country and it's one of the few things that sets me off

That's what I'm trying to figure out in regards to flag theory and why I created this thread. I'd rather run towards something but if I can't then I'll damn sure run away lol

And I totally understand where you're coming from, and again, I know how I come off on this topic and it's not good. But there's absolutely no compromise to be had here. I'll never be happy in the United States. I'll always feel like shit here, hate it so much
@Regal Tiger gotcha.

If you feel that way, yes you better get out. Sounds like that frustration it’s not going to get fixed by waiting.
Wish you the best of luck.
 

Jan

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Why is no one talking about Africa???

Madagascar and The Gambia are currently the hottest spots to be. No westernisation and no one really goes there.

In fact I suspect the law of mention of these two countries is because people don't want to expose them. These places are absolute gold mines
One reason could be HIV

But Africa is really interesting indeed
 

Chase

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I'm not going to comment on the "predicting decline" part here, because I've talked about it other places, it's an involved topic, and I think a lot of guys are sensitive to anything that might imply their country of choice could be among what you're calling "declining." However, I'll remark on the "choosing a country on the up-and-up":

The biggest problem prediction-wise is it's basically like trying to predict which entrepreneur in a group of entrepreneurs will be the billionaire.

It is much easier to eliminate the ones who will definitely NOT be billionaires than it is to pick the one who will end up becoming that.

That's like saying, "All right, Panama, Haiti, and Mongolia definitely aren't going to be highly developed civilization powerhouses any time in the next 25 years." You can say that with a fair degree of certainty... eliminating the basket cases.

However, fingering who'll be on TOP of things N years out is a lot trickier.

There are tons and tons of examples in history of a country that looked like it was poised to take the crown as "most powerful country in the region/world" only to suddenly stumble and go into a prolonged (or a rapid) decline. Like the Hittites fighting the powerful ancient Egyptians to a draw at the Battle of Kadesh, growing more and more powerful, being the first society in the world to forge iron, looking like they were poised to be the dominant player, and then a few decades later they get a huge influx of mountain people flooding in, destabilizing them, then the Sea People flood in and the Hittites get wiped off the map. Or Zenobia conquering Roman Arabia, looking like she was poised to carve out a strong independent kingdom in Palmyra, only for Aurelian to sweep in and smother it in the cradle.

More recently, there was a huge expectation in the 1980s that Japan would surpass the US as the world's most powerful economy. It was a major fear for Americans. Then Japan went into a prolonged economic decline it never fully recovered from. It's still a highly developed economic powerhouse, but no one expects it to become the world's biggest economy anymore.

Society-wise, you have the phenomenon @Will_V identifies:

I don't think that kind of country exists right now, and if it does, it won't last long.

From what I can see, Western countries in general are going far left, and the only other choices are conservative, right-leaning countries. But these conservative countries are often either heading further right, or they are heading left fast and haven't caught up yet with the Western trend (and they will shortly, with the aid of social media and the internet).

Another way of putting this is: "No standing still."

Societies are constantly in flux. If you find the perfect place, the odds it will still be "perfect" 10 years out aren't great.

I think the smarter move is to identify your personal values, and the kind of society you want to live within, then go looking for somewhere that matches that as closely as you can.

That might be somewhere within your own country (the US). It might be somewhere else in the world.

You'll probably need to do a bunch of traveling, talking to people, and some stints in different places to find the right match.

This process itself can be fun.

Chase
 

thundercock.

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There are tons and tons of examples in history of a country that looked like it was poised to take the crown as "most powerful country in the region/world" only to suddenly stumble and go into a prolonged (or a rapid) decline. Like the Hittites fighting the powerful ancient Egyptians to a draw at the Battle of Kadesh, growing more and more powerful, being the first society in the world to forge iron, looking like they were poised to be the dominant player, and then a few decades later they get a huge influx of mountain people flooding in, destabilizing them, then the Sea People flood in and the Hittites get wiped off the map. Or Zenobia conquering Roman Arabia, looking like she was poised to carve out a strong independent kingdom in Palmyra, only for Aurelian to sweep in and smother it in the cradle.

More recently, there was a huge expectation in the 1980s that Japan would surpass the US as the world's most powerful economy. It was a major fear for Americans. Then Japan went into a prolonged economic decline it never fully recovered from. It's still a highly developed economic powerhouse, but no one expects it to become the world's biggest economy anymore.

Reminds me of a post I recently read by Russian analyst Vasili Topolev (source):
Writing about current events is tough, so let's do some minor league historiosophy.

Many people may know that Andrei Amalrik wrote the book "Will the Soviet Union Survive Until 1984?" in 1969. He was only seven years wrong, it turns out. But Hélène Carrère d'Ancoss, in 1979, wrote a book called "The Fractured Empire," in which she was wrong by just one year – she was expecting the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1990. Amalrik died in a car crash in 1980, but Hélène (incidentally, born Zarubashvili of Russian-Georgian aristocratic émigrés) is still alive and even became secretary of the French Academy of Sciences.

Far fewer people know what the forecast itself was. Amalrik believed that the USSR would collapse as a result of war with China. In reality, the USSR collapsed after six years of consistently improving relations with China. Carrère d'Ancoss expected a mass Islamist uprising in Central Asia (as in Iran). In reality, the Central Asian republics were the last to leave the Union, after not only the Baltics, Ukraine, and Transcaucasia, but even after the RSFSR and the BSSR – that is, when there was no Union at all. But who remembers that now?

Paul Samuelson is considered one of the most illustrious economists of the 20th century. He won the Nobel Prize and wrote his famous textbook, which was used for decades by students all over the planet in their economics 101 course. Samuelson believed that by 1990 the USSR would overtake the United States in gross domestic product. Then he shifted his forecast a bit: by 2000.

In 1987, Yale historian Paul Kennedy (no, not a relative of the president) published his book The Rise and Fall of the Great Powers (translated into Russian a couple of years ago). The book brought Kennedy worldwide fame – he described the change of the dominant powers over the course of 500 years. Except that the first cover of the book had a picture (https://pictures.abebooks.com/isbn/9780517051009-us.jpg): the Briton John Bull coming down from the top of the globe, the American Uncle Smith standing on the top, but a bespectacled Japanese sneaking up behind him. Kennedy believed that American domination of the world would be succeeded by the Japanese domination (he did not actually say it that explicitly, but it was easy to notice). In the real world, a few years after the book was published, Japan was hit by a severe economic crisis – some offices in downtown Tokyo became 100 (yes one hundred) times cheaper, and the nineties were labeled "the lost decade (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Decades)" by the Japanese themselves.

Everyone knows that the brilliant Zbigniew Brzezinski wrote a brilliant book called The Grand Chessboard. Only no one has read it. But I have. The main idea of the book is that the power that controls pipelines in Central Asia will dominate in the 21st century. Brilliant. Who even remembers these pipes now, even against the backdrop of the global energy crisis.

In July 1914, Kaiser Wilhelm II promised soldiers that they would be back from the front before the first autumn leaves touched the ground. And the Kaiser was not alone. That the outcome of the war would be decided in the first months was the opinion of wise generals in all the general staffs of Europe. The French, based on the Franco-Prussian experience (you know that bit, the fight between two democracies?) believed that the outcome of the war would be decided in the first month – and have had a hundred thousand men felled in the Ardennes in a narrow area over four days, throwing them in pointless attacks on the German machine guns. The Russians threw two newly mobilized corps, in which half of the soldiers remained in sandals, on Königsberg – and the East Prussian disaster happened. The Austrians, too, threw their dressy – the prettiest uniforms in the world! – toy-like regiments to the Carpathians, where they were ground to dust in a few months by the harsh Siberian, Cossack, Grenadier, Guard and other select regiments of the Russian army.

In this light, let me remind you of an old idea of mine. We will scroll through the twentieth century, 20 years at a time.

So, let's start on January 1, 1900. What does the world look like?
World politics is defined in three capitals – London, Berlin, St. Petersburg.

The British, after the Boer War, are the world's pariahs. They have very bad relations with literally all other great powers. At the 1900 World's Fair in Paris, they even banned the British delegation. India is once again preparing for a Russian invasion.

France is sandwiched between the British and the Germans. The former can easily take her colonies, the latter can defeat her in a one-on-one war. The most militarized country in Europe. When railroad workers go on strike, the government simply declares them mobilized and sends those who refuse to work to be court-martialed – no other country in the world has thought of such a thing.

Germany is the European leader. The world's most advanced science – soon Germans will be raking in handfuls of Nobel prizes. The best universities in the world are not Harvard or Oxford, but Göttingen and Heidelberg. A mighty army. The world's second largest navy – thirty years ago there was none at all. Berlin is called the "Electroburg"; it's the most progressive and cleanest city in the world, kind of like Singapore today.

Russia has tremendous industrial growth, the highest in the world. The St. Petersburg Stock Exchange will reach a peak this year to which it will never return, not even by 1914, after the Stolypin reform. There are plans to build a huge fleet by 1920, with only battleships counting 50. Korea, Manchuria, and Persia are gradually turning into Russian colonies.

China, recently defeated in a war with Japan, seems determined to modernize along Japanese lines. Although right now the country is in an extremely deplorable state, China is genuinely feared. Both in Russia [ru link reddit'd], and in America [for good measure], and everywhere else. Kaiser Wilhelm paints a picture [] in which the Archangel Michael calls upon all the nations of Europe to go to holy war against the Asian hordes. Somewhere near China lies Japan, which has yet to receive much attention. The King of England and the Tsar of Russia call the Japanese macaques in their correspondence.

The U.S. is already very rich, but it is almost invisible in world politics. The American army is ranked by the German General Staff on a level with the Portuguese army. The American navy has only five small battleships. Unexpectedly, the Americans went to war with the other "weaklings," the Spaniards, and although they won, they ended up with an endless guerrilla war in the Philippines. All in all, simmering somewhere on the periphery.

Scroll to 1920.
There is no such thing as a Chinese empire. The Ottoman or Austro-Hungarian empires are similarly non-existent. In place of the Russian Empire there is a giant bloody stain. Germany, cut off from all sides, is steadily teetering on the brink of Communist revolution. All of Europe, down to Poland and Romania, is now dominated by France. The British Empire is even larger than it was in 1900. The U.S. has become a great military power. Wall Street, swollen during the war, turned from a peripheral financial center into a competitor to the City of London. Japan began to build its empire, suddenly becoming one of the world's great powers.

Fast forward to 1940.
The U.S. is still trying to get out of the Great Depression. France as a state simply does not exist, unless you count the mysterious entity centered in the resort town of Vichy. Russia, torn apart by civil war, was replaced by the giant Soviet Union. Germany, recently humiliated and defeated, has now conquered almost all of Europe. The British, recent triumphators, are preparing for a German landing and hiding from German bombs. Japan has already conquered a good half of China and is not going to stop.

Another turn of the knob and we go to 1960.
The U.S. has experienced a decade and a half of frenzied economic growth. The country is bursting with exuberance. U.S. military bases are spread across the globe. The Soviet Union, which many had already given up on in 1942, has recovered, has rid itself of the worst features of totalitarianism, is preparing to send a man into space, and is competing equally with the United States in the most sophisticated fields of technology – lasers, atomic, space, aviation. Germany and Japan are now almost the most peaceful countries in the world, especially since both are de facto occupied by U.S. and Soviet troops. Italy, until very recently one of the poorest countries in Europe, which has also suffered terribly after two years of warfare on its territory, is showing the highest growth rate in Europe and will soon overtake even Britain. Fewer and fewer territories remain of the British Empire, which was supposedly victorious in World War II, and those too will soon be independent. France is a great power again. Germany is experiencing its economic miracle. The Shah of Iran is determined to use petrodollars to turn his country into the most developed and enlightened in the Middle East.

And we are already in 1980.
America has been in stagflation for years. Society is afflicted by the depression and the Vietnam syndrome, with the main movie of the generation being The Taxi Driver and such. Britain is even worse off than the United States. The USSR continues to expand its sphere of influence and pump up its military might, taking advantage of the rain of petrodollars. The vast majority of Sovietologists do not expect the collapse of the Soviet state in the coming decades. China is in ruins after the Cultural Revolution. Japan seems to many to be the next world economic leader. Germany is called the "sick man of Europe."

Here comes the year 2000.
The USSR does not exist. China is developing at an incredible rate. The Japanese call the 90's the "lost decade", their economy has stopped growing. The U.S. has attained a dominance unprecedented in history – in economics, finance, technology, military power, and politics. Once again, London has become one of the world's two major financial centers.

Every time we turn the knob twenty years ahead, we find ourselves in an entirely new world that no one could have predicted beforehand. Yes, some features could be guessed, but not the picture as a whole. And haven't yet written anything about all sorts of third- or fourth-rate countries.

Today's observers expect to see in ten or twenty years a world that will be basically the same as it is today, but with one change. Russia will fall apart, or the United States will be torn apart by civil war, or China will have its own Great Depression and overthrow the Communist Party. But imagine a world in which there would be none of the constituent parts we are accustomed to today – not the United States, not the European Union, not China, not Russia, not Ukraine, not (insert country name of preference) in their current form. Some will become more powerful, and some will disappear altogether – temporarily or permanently. Judging by the news, the likelihood of such a world is getting higher by the day.

But a country doesn't have to be among the most powerful to be a good place to live. Much of the wealthiest, developed countries are the same ones from 50 years ago, so shop around.
 
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