Long-Term Problems in OLTR

[Thomas_ac]

OK, long story as short as I can.

Let's call her Lisa. We started off as fuckbuddies. Right before having sex with her the first time I literally said: "Let's not have a serious relationship" and she replied in relief something along the lines of - "Yeah, I just got out of one and want to have some fun!". She had recently gotten out of a 4 year relationship and already had some fun before me and she was just enjoying life. So the frame in the beginning was quite sex-oriented.
Anyway. I've had some good sex and some bad. And then some really bad. But with this girl it was just awesome. I think second or third time we came at the exact same moment. Point is - the sex was really good. Still is, actually.

I had just discovered GC a little earlier that year and went straight on asking her about fantasies and stuff. Trying to master my non-judgement. She opened up and I replied with some of mine(threesomes). So we did a a little tying up and some light spanking. I kept meeting her once a week. At the same time I was having some fun with this other girl. Also very sexual and into some more serious spanking and bondage. Let's call her Mary.

You can already see where this is going. One and one is two. Two is better than one. So I openly asked both of them about what do they think about threesomes. Actually, I introduced Mary to blowjobs and she liked it but wasn't very good at it. But wanted to get better. And I said: "Umm, well, maybe I can find You a teacher..." having in mind Lisa, who's very good at it. And then later I asked Lisa and she seemed ok. So one day Mary was on a way to my place and I texted her that I found her a teacher. Some time later we were at my place. I also told Lisa and she was like "fuck, let's do it". And then Mary got cold feet. She was being "oh, but I don't know her". I don't know. I still sometimes blame myself for not inviting Lisa over anyway and telling them both to get to know each other then! Anyway. It didn't happen. I kinda feel like I was being too boyfriendy to Mary and that's what caused the last minute change of heart. Next day I had to console Lisa for what happened. She was pretty pissed for Mary bailing out literally on the last minute.
Next day I flew off to do a year abroad and study another language. Lisa is a very reasonable girl and we had gotten a little more intimate over time(ca. 8 months) but we both agreed that starting a relationship of any kind just before me leaving for a year would be flat out stupid.

After I got back we started hanging out. And it slowly got more serious. I still had some casual stuff going on with some other girls. I'm very sure she was aware of it.

Then one day she was very serious. Imagine hearing falling chords "tut-tut-tut-tooooooooo".
A while before that I had read Blackdragons article on polygamy. And I already had a feeling that I know why she's being sad.

She is not very talkative so it took me some time to get a reason for her bad mood. And it was exactly what I expected. All her friends have nice well-behaving boyfriends and she wants one too.
I said(being prepared and all): "Girl, I like You a lot and everything is great. But exclusivity is not an option right now. I really think it's actually better that we're not exclusive. So we don't get lazy. Not You, not me. But if You think it's not possible for You then I'm not gonna stop You. You have to make Your own decision." She said "I need to sit on it and think about it" - "Ok, take Your time". And she left.
Few days later I went to see her concert(she sings in choir and I had kinda promised earlier I would go see their concert, and I wanted to as well. Hadn't been out in a while). As I left the concert, she ran out and caught me. Asking me what do I do later. And that they will go to a bar next to my house with some choir people and will I come?
Everything back to normal. We have great sex, hang out and don't get pissed off when the other one is out alone.

This morning she was sad again. At first I thought it was something else because one of their choir members died and she has to go to a funeral tomorrow. But then she was awfully quiet about the real reason when I asked. I cuddled up to her and kept trying. She went: "You know, why I'm sad..." . Then I offered to talk things out before I leave(to my parents countryside house) but she was like:"I don't want to talk about it now." I asked a few more times. Nothing. Then we we're silent for a while. I felt like I was being power played. I fucking hate it. Because I never want to lose a power play. I'm willing to end it but not lose a power play. And I would be really sad if I lost a great girl like this. I gave her a little kiss and just left. No contact after that.

One more thing. It seems that I've somehow managed to become more boyfriendish. That sort of means that threesome is off the list as well. At least I don't feel comfortable talking about it anymore. To be honest, that was one of the main reasons I like this girl. She seemed cool with that. She even talked about her girl friend who's been trying to get her to do stuff with her.

So. Somehow I've managed to sabotage myself. And I can't put a finger on where I went wrong.
I think I have few days of silence now.

Ideas anyone?
On how to keep that open relationship going?
Can I pull of a threesome from this situation?
If, then how?

P.S. Ask me more details if anything seems vague.

 

[Thomas_ac]

Anyone?

I'ts been about 10 days. She wanted to talk few days ago but I was genuinely busy at that particular evening.
She contacted me again today. Asking for a meet tomorrow.

I need advice! PRONTO!

I did some thinking back and self-assessment. Most likely I gradually started acting like a regular boyfriend. Meeting more often, more lame texting. Perhaps a little too predictable in the bedroom.
Never promised anything about exclusivity, though. No lying. Not sacrificing my busy time for her.

 

[Franco]

Thomas,

Without knowing all of the details of the relationship, it sounds to me like you might be entering the phase where she either needs the next level of commitment or she needs to move on (but she could possibly come back later). Right now, it sounds like you're not actually in an OLTR -- an OLTR happens when actual ground rules have been laid down; for example, you've agreed that you will only have "fuckbuddies" outside of her and you can't have any non-monogamous relationships that involve emotions and feelings outside of her. That would be agreeing to a rule where she is essentially "Queen of the Hill," even if you're not exclusively having sex with only her.

Depending on what you want, it sounds like you need to give her options. If you aren't open to only having fuckbuddies and still want to "date" other girls, then you have pretty much made yourself clear on that to her, and she needs to make up her mind on what she wants to do. However, if you feel like this girl is above and beyond every other girl and you want to keep her around for an extended period of time (but still sleep with other women), then you need to propose an OLTR situation to her to see if she accepts it. There's no guarantee that she will go for that arrangement, but it gives her something to work with. Essentially, this would let her know that you care about her more than any other girl, and you want to have the "boyfriend" experience with her; you would let her know that you won't be monogamous (because that's not who you are), but you will only have sex with other women for the sake of sex. No feelings or emotions involved, and no "dates" other than one-night stands and fuckbuddies.

If she doesn't accept the OLTR arrangement (or if you don't want an OLTR arrangement), then it's probably time to let her go so that she can find a boyfriend. There's no guarantee that she finds an "amazing" boyfriend, so there's a good chance she could come back to you in the future. Just make sure to remain non-needy and firm on your stance.

- Franco

 

[Thomas_ac]

Thanks for advice!
I'll see how it goes tonight and let you know.

 

[Thomas_ac]

So...this weeks installment.

We talked and it went good. And bad. I just fucked up a some things. Some things I didn't.

She was very cool when we met and it seemed like she was very glad to see me. Although I think she was trying to hide it. We were close to her place and went there. I really like her, so I figured(selfishly) that if she decided to not accept the OLTR, it would probably be much easier at my place. Leaving would be psycologically easier for her and I didn't want my apartment to remind me of that unfortunate event.

At first she acted very normal and we hung out at her place. We had some tea and just regular chit-chat. Like nothing happened. At some point we sat down on her bed and got more serious(talking, I mean, you pervs).
She was asking for more cutesy stuff and attention. I explained that I'm not really that ever-hugging-texting type. Because I think it's bunkum and lacks true emotion. For example. One day I had a break in my lectures and she lives few hundred meters from the place I was at. So I brought her some take-away soup because I knew she was very broken from last nights party. Something I would do to my good friends as well(if they happen to live so close). So I explained my style and she started to see my idea behind it.

Then we talked about other girls. She said that she feels like she is being used and that she is my backup. Not true. She asked how many. Like lately, I mean. I said one. I lied. She was already sobbing before that so I chickened out. I know, I know I shouldn't have but more on that later.

She didn't like it much but I steered the conversation to rules. And said that I wouldn't do anything low(fucking around without protection, her friends and so on). I also said I expect her not to do these things. She replied that she doesn't even want to. Strong emotions?

Then I went on and said that baby, if we're going to do this, let's do complete honesty(not sure if that's a good idea, but I want to try). I had a gut feeling that she was faking orgasms sometimes. Mostly because I wasn't concentrating making her mind horny enough before sex. I just needed a verbatim confirmation to kick me out of my comfort zone quicker. She confirmed my doubts. I made her promise to me to tell me whenever I get lazy in the future. That fuck-the-mind-first wisdom is pure gold.

After the talk it felt a little awkward for both of us but nothing too weird. We had sex and since I had stuff for breakfast at home we went to my place for the night.

FF few days

Yesterday I was at her place and we talked about some stuff and I asked more details about this guy that she slept with when I was abroad. She told me that she did it to get back at me. For the Mary thing. Turns out she had already been very invested at that time. Anyway. I was very pleasantly surprised about her honesty. I felt like if she has the balls to tell me this then she really is being honest. My trust meter went up a lot.

After that I also got a bad kind of tingle in the back of my head. Few days ago I had said it was only one one-night stand. But I had actually slept with 4 girls. Eventually I figured that this trust thing and the whole OLTR is gonna fall apart sooner or later if it's only one-sided honesty. I told her. Of course she was very sad. Felt betrayed etc.

From the moment I told her she went cold. I explained my thoughts and reasoning on the matter. Namely, going through all this shit I really want to make it work. She seemed to understand most of my reasoning but was still shaken up from the emotional blow. She had similar setup with her ex(only in the end phase of their relationship) and he fucked other chikcs and got mad when she did some guys. Didn't work out for them. I said I wouldn't freak out if she had casual sex with some guy.

She was quiet the whole night. And just resumed to almost-normal mode in the morning. Still a bit cold.
When I left she was still a bit cold. Does anyone have a similar experience?

That's all. All coments and advice are welcome!

 

[Franco]

Thomas_ac,

After that I also got a bad kind of tingle in the back of my head. Few days ago I had said it was only one one-night stand. But I had actually slept with 4 girls. Eventually I figured that this trust thing and the whole OLTR is gonna fall apart sooner or later if it's only one-sided honesty. I told her. Of course she was very sad. Felt betrayed etc.

Being honest with each other doesn't necessarily mean you tell her about every single thing that happens to you that you know won't make her feel good. Honesty is telling her that you won't be monogamous and that you'll sleep with other women, but you agree that it's just under the "fuckbuddy" or "one-night stand" premise. Telling her that you slept with four new women when she didn't care to ask you if you did is just painful, and it's something she doesn't need to know. You've already set the terms of the relationship, so why emphasize the negative aspects of the relationship for her when they occur?

It sounds like she might be okay with the arrangement, but make sure not to ruin it for the both of you by being too honest. In other words, don't bring up the details of the negative parts of your setup when she's already well aware of the fact that you're "allowed" to sleep with other women. It's going to rub her the wrong way every single time, regardless of whether or not you are honest about it. Even when women agree to this type of relationship, they don't feel 100% secure about it at any point, and eventually it might be too much stress for them to handle, and they'll have to break it off. Make sure not to accelerate that process by making her feel more insecure about it than she might already be -- it's still supposed to be an enjoyable experience for the both of you. =)

EDIT: Likewise, I find it best never to really ask about who she's seeing or what she's doing. Obviously if you ask her about her details, she's going to ask you about yours. It's best just to focus on the two of you when you're together.

- Franco

 

[Thomas_ac]

Thanks for the quick reply, Franco!

Yes, I agree that I shouldn't go telling her when she is not asking. I get it. It just feels like you're doing it on purpose. I would definately start to wonder about the reasons if she came to me and out of the blue started telling me who she slept with.

My ex-girlfriend does that. Calls me sometimes to tell me how good her life is and how much fun she is having. And I understand why my ex is doing it. She is still pissed and wants to make me jealous/hurt.

But this particular time I had directly lied to Lisa. Not just kept the truth. When she asked how many, I had said one instead of four. I feel like it's a bit different.

What do you think?

I'll see her again tomorrow. I'm actually quite curious. Of how will it all turn out.

 

[Franco]

Thomas_ac,

But this particular time I had directly lied to Lisa. Not just kept the truth. When she asked how many, I had said one instead of four. I feel like it's a bit different.

What do you think?

Depends on what you two agree to do! If you agree that you will let each other know the details of each others' outside sexual ventures, then that's probably fine. At the same time, when you think about it, why does the number really matter? The matter of the fact still stands: you're sleeping with other women, whether that be 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 more because you agreed to allow each other to do that. Why give the details to her when you know it's something that isn't going to make her feel any better? If you two didn't agree to "tell each every detail about each new partner we sleep with," then why would you do so?

Generally you'll find that the women that care about this aspect the most are the least viable for an OLTR anyway. If she's going to be constantly worried about who you're sleeping with every single time you two get together, is that something you're going to want to deal with? It's probably too early to tell whether or not this woman will be that way, but it's something to consider should you decide to try and go this route with her.

A mistake a lot of guys make is assuming that this type relationship needs to be "complete and open honesty about everything from both sides." That's not really the case. I can guarantee you she has secrets that she hasn't told you about, and she doesn't plan on telling you about them. Likewise, you've given her the pertinent information (that you'll be sleeping with other women and won't be "cheating" on her), so you can also have your details/secrets that you don't have to mention to her. Some women may be okay with knowing that you're sleeping with lots of other women, but many will just be emotionally distraught when hearing about it, even if they agreed to let you do it. You have to decide whether or not this woman will be the former or the latter, and then handle it respectively.

Ultimately, your goal is to not hurt her. Your goal is not to be as honest as you can possibly be about everything because -- guess what? -- that will hurt her. Just make sure to make her feel loved and secure when you two are spending time together. =)

- Franco

 

[Thomas_ac]

Thanks again, Franco!

I'll keep that in mind. And see how it goes. I'll post again if anything happens. So others can maybe learn from my mistakes as well.

 

[Regal Tiger]

Thanks again, Franco!

I'll keep that in mind. And see how it goes. I'll post again if anything happens. So others can maybe learn from my mistakes as well.

I've gotten really interested in Open Relationships as well and would like to hear how things have gone for you, if you don't mind sharing.