Pros and cons of keeping a woman around who is far less attractive than your goals

[KJ Francis]

My logistics couldn't be worse right now. It's limiting.

I met a woman online who is probably not pursued all that often. She's uninteresting, but is a pretty good person and easy to be around. She isn't obese or anything, and I like her personality. She isn't clingy at all.

But what I really like is her mouth.

We've gone all the way in the backseat a couple times, and she is generally grateful. She texts me things like she wants to do anything she can to make my experience pleasurable, and to just swing by if I'm ever in the mood for a quick blowjob. She is very good at it, including her swallowing, and loves taking direction.

I am nowhere near advanced, but also not completely clueless. I am really just starting to get some momentum with baseline acceptable quality women.

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So my question is: Are there any downsides to keeping her around? I ask because I read Ricardus' 2022 journal and noticed how he seemed to maintain chastity while working back up to women who met his high standards.

I think hanging with her has seriously had an effect on the depth of my voice. I would think she would help a bit with abundance mentality and lasting longer with other women (due to my general needs being at least somewhat met).

She'd probably cry if she read this about herself.

Are there any aspects I'm not considering? I think it's helped cause motivation and not complacency, but I'd love to hear from anyone who has experience progressing from being a bottom feeder.

 

[Beck Bass]

She'd probably cry if she read this about herself.

Then don't let her. Don't be a bad person if you can avoid it. Always delete all entries from your history after using the forums or only use it on incognito mode.

It seems like she's a good girl, maybe she's not all that hot, but most guys think they deserve way more than they really do.
Keeping her around will surely boost your testosterone (as long as you keep it in your terms) and you will learn about women, so it's gonna be good for you. Just try to be real with her, so she doesn't create too many expectations towards something long term (girls always create some on their head anyway, you can't have that much control).

The only downside I can think of is, of course, that you're gonna spend some time on her, so it's time that you're not gonna be approaching/pursuing other girls and working on your skills (but remember, relationship skills are important as well). Your focus won't be 100% on finding new girls, so it's never gonna be quite what it can be, but the boost in confidence and experience with women is probably worth it.

You likely can find a hotter girl willing to fuck eventually, but without the experience and skills to back it up, she might eat you alive, like you might get too needy and start getting sour towards women after she "uses" you (she likely will be broken, if you don't quite have the skill/fundamentals, and without abundance and experience to recognize it, you will chase her regardless and have a really bad time). You can always let her down gently if you really feel like pursuing other women 100% (or at least try, again, setting early expectations and being true/real is very important).

My logistics couldn't be worse right now. It's limiting.

Then fix it. Work towards it everyday. If it's a money problem, build the skills to get a better job, or just find one, if you already have them.

 

[KJ Francis]

Hey Beck, thanks for the insights!

She is a good girl, and gets told so...

She is getting a lot of value and enjoyment herself, but I do wonder if there's any psychology to consider for either of us, since I view her as a tool.

I also recall seeing a short mention of this topic in a @Karea Ricardus D. article in addition to the journal, but can't seem to find it again. It might have been on day game targeting (instead of shotgun approach).

Despite any cons, it's helping to increase my comfort level with generally acting more dominant. It feels more natural when being not only the one-up, but the one-hundred-up in this situation...

She texted that she'll be imagining the different ways she can please me until we see each other, and that her one simple goal is to make me feel like a king.

Do elite calibre girls even get like that? "Sexual market value" seems a little cold, but it seems like this dynamic needs a larger disparity in our "rank" (ugh), meaning I'm a relatively much more rare resource to her.

 

[Bismarck]

Hey francis,

Welcome to the boards!

Onto the meat of your doubts.

This is an endless debate among lotharios - quality or quantity? I'm not sure that there is a consensus.

I would say you probably need a bit of both. The danger with going too much for quality before you earn your first few dozen spurs can be that you develop oneitis and get your heart broken when the girl doesn't land on your lap, instead adding you to her friend zone emotional tampon orbiter collection.

The danger with going too much for quantity without giving due consideration to quality is that you become a full-blown narcissist who only wants more notches to gain external validation from random dudes on the internet (or whoever will listen IRL) all the while still not accepting, at an inner game level, that you are worth the top-shelf snatch because you never went for the gals who give your stomach the butterflies.

 

[Chase]

I had a buddy who used to shag plenty of butterface gals.

He also used to take some who were outright plump. Some he'd keep around as long-term FWBs. They stayed on as FWBs a looot longer than the usual girl will (we're talking a 1+ years, instead of 3-4 months). They knew they just were not going to get that kind of deal with any other guy of his level of looks/confidence/charisma/etc.

A mutual friend of ours who was okay with women but got laid a lot less than he did used to always pester him about why he would pick up these subpar chicks and keep them around as FWBs. He'd talk about how he didn't like how high maintenance hot girls were (he married one eventually though!) and how less attractive girls were good for building up momentum. One time I came over as his latest conquest was leaving, this neighbor girl who was actually pretty cute, and he was telling me how our friend had been on him about his quality, and so he turned the lights off while he was banging the cute girl and asked himself, "Does this feel any better than banging an ugly chick?" and concluded the answer was, "Nope!"

Only note of caution I'd offer is if you're going this route you ought to make sure you are taking multiple girls and not just seeing that one chick.

That buddy of mine always had at least 2 or 3 FWBs and pulled ONSes fairly frequently. So he could keep seeing the butterface girls and wouldn't get attached to them or start to mentally downgrade what type of girls he thought he could get.

Chase

 

[HoofHearted]

You the man? You in control, francis? Hahahhaha

I love the input about making sure you continue to have/see more women

Lest a hormonal cocktail flushes your body, bends the shape of your eye to straighten the line of the lass's crooked nose.

And you begin to affectionately dream in fondness of her dead black tooth some sunny afternoon.

So I do hope you have it on lock. Because let's not ever be so presumptuous to think we have nature 'on lock', and nature has its own end, and its own mechanisms of achieving it...

 

[Police dog]

Unless she is really ugly, I would keep her. Here is the point - what is difference between super hot girl and a below average one? Only the facade. Those girls are great for practice, because you are not attached to her and don’t care if you lose her, you can try a lot if risky things or just experiment because you are not losing anything anyway. This took me some time to get to, but it’s true - internally every single girl is pretty much the same as the rest of them. They act same, talk same, want same things. They only differ in external characteristics. So you can gladly use any of them for practice and apply what you gained to the ones you find attractive.

 

[orkie123]

I would say keep her around, enjoy the experience and try not to meet too often to reduce chances of either of you getting too attached.

In the past, meeting once a week roughly and only using text to organise meetings (because I dont like chitchat texting with fwbs) worked really well in keeping things simple and drama free for me.

 

[KJ Francis]

I would say you probably need a bit of both. The danger with going too much for quality before you earn your first few dozen spurs can be that you develop oneitis and get your heart broken when the girl doesn't land on your lap, instead adding you to her friend zone emotional tampon orbiter collection.

The danger with going too much for quantity without giving due consideration to quality is that you become a full-blown narcissist who only wants more notches to gain external validation from random dudes on the internet (or whoever will listen IRL) all the while still not accepting, at an inner game level, that you are worth the top-shelf snatch because you never went for the gals who give your stomach the butterflies.

Thanks Bismarck! This makes sense, as I've only recently been interacting with attractive women and am doing okay, but would probably be toast without some extra abundance. I'm definitely guilty of wanting the validation since even laying the bottom of the barrel is a pretty novel experience for me until late. It's like I discovered sugar and am running around like "hey, did you guys know about this sugar thing???".

I have done a lot of studying though, so very recently have had some contact with attractive girls and am doing alright by just following process. The results I'm getting are surprising myself, so it's sort of increasing the attainability in my head, and now I have an attraction to the possibilities. This is making me want to start cold approaching women leagues above anyone I've ever talked to.

Only note of caution I'd offer is if you're going this route you ought to make sure you are taking multiple girls and not just seeing that one chick.

That buddy of mine always had at least 2 or 3 FWBs and pulled ONSes fairly frequently. So he could keep seeing the butterface girls and wouldn't get attached to them or start to mentally downgrade what type of girls he thought he could get.

It's actually fascinating to feel the effects of abundance on my brain. I've essentially fallen in and out of "love" like twice in the past few months with two different girls. It's like the brain's saying "here's your only option for procreation, so welcome to loss of control land", then in short order my options increase. I'm aware of what's going on the whole time though so am able to hold back from over-investment. The problem is my solid options are not but-her-faces, but more so butter bodies.

Unless she is really ugly, I would keep her. Here is the point - what is difference between super hot girl and a below average one? Only the facade. Those girls are great for practice, because you are not attached to her and don’t care if you lose her, you can try a lot if risky things or just experiment because you are not losing anything anyway. This took me some time to get to, but it’s true - internally every single girl is pretty much the same as the rest of them. They act same, talk same, want same things. They only differ in external characteristics. So you can gladly use any of them for practice and apply what you gained to the ones you find attractive.

I think you nailed it, since it does provide a lot of practice with general mechanics of game and sex. I am way more confident in acting dominant, which is good to get used to. The one who inspired the post is pretty ugly though. I wouldn't want to be seen with her in public, but she'll text me every other day trying to give me head. It keeps my neediness down with other people. I guess science is cruel...

I would say keep her around, enjoy the experience and try not to meet too often to reduce chances of either of you getting too attached.

In the past, meeting once a week roughly and only using text to organise meetings (because I dont like chitchat texting with fwbs) worked really well in keeping things simple and drama free for me.

Man I don't even know what is going to happen with this one. There's no chit chat besides her constantly trying to meet up with me. I'm at the point of ignoring messages with her asking me to come fuck her. We have never even met anywhere besides the back seat. The first time I met her I just picked her up and drove two minutes around the corner. She's available any time I want and always jumps at it. I'm pretty kind to her when I answer. I want to get her to 7-10 days. I'm at like every 5 or so with her. I'll probably start a new thread since my situation's changed a little.

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No further questions lol

Thanks for all the insights guys! She's still fun, but I think the problem sort of worked itself out through the aspects I ended with in replying to Bismarck. Greater heights are in sight, and she's aiding in that, not hindering. It feels a little ruthless sort of "using her", but she is getting a life altering experience.

She's an older, overweight fast food worker. High five...

 

[KJ Francis]

Update: I used to cum pretty quick in the very recent past. Today I just kept fucking and fucking her and couldn’t cum. And I haven’t had sex or a date in a week (or jacked off for maybe a couple months).

I never fully lost the erection, but started going a little soft a few times.

Is there something going on in the brain when abundance increases? Like the subconscious is saying don’t mate with her? I didn’t think there was an evolutionary downside to wasting sperm. Maybe my deep mind’s saying stop wasting time and get a better mate.

I grew up with a stutter and have a major psychological barrier with approaching. I used to chuck the phone across the room at family instead of answering it. I think it messes with my head to get approach invitations and such, like I know I have access to higher quality, but it’s not in hand.